yeq88

22 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

Rigidity is usually a defence against external energies or a suppression of internal energies.

 

In your case you have a variety of predators along your spine.  Large predators extend out behind your back and small predators hide between the vertebrae.  Other energy centres also attract predators.  

 

Pushing heart-light slowly around your body and limbs will progressively free you - except where you have given permission.

 

Passive permissions include remaining in the same dwelling/job/relationship when you know you should not.  Baldwin deals with passive permissions.

 

 

That's interesting. Thanks for the advice, Lairg. I'll take it into account when looking at what to do! 

21 minutes ago, Lairg said:

Baldwin's book was the best I ever read - and I have read a lot.  He certainly introduced the idea of demanding the light be shown.

 

As I recall he did not teach movement of heart light around the body - nor its origin.

 

That's interesting. I already try to maintain a right relationship with the stuff inside me, though I mostly use Internal Family Systems-type stuff and Inner-Relationship Focusing to do it. I just struggle due to my OCD and internal tensions and ridigity. Would that be similar? It's more or less just being accepting and curious towards whatever is inside you and finding out why its doing what its doing.

1 minute ago, Lairg said:

The easiest way to deal with predators is to push light from your heart to the predator and then demand that it show you its light

 

Here is an account of heart light

 

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, isn't this Spirit Replacement Therapy? I think it was made by William J. Baldwin or something?

20 hours ago, Lairg said:

Deal with parasitic predators early in your process

 

 

How though? There's so many different views on this issue, and sometimes it's conflicting info. As a total beginner it's pretty confusing, especially since there's magicians who advocate for a kinda, "Fate matters, don't fuck with anything, your attempts to make things better might itself draw predators" type view - idk if that's what they mean, but that's what I'm getting from it right now.

I'm looking for what opinions are on here esp from experienced posters on this topic? I just want to take responsibility for this side of my life and be able to experiement safely while tying up some loose ends from my past and bad habits I've picked up that are causing me spiritual and magical issues. I've had some shitty experiences in the past before dabbling with stuff irresponsibly. As in: bring up traumas, become a sex addict, fuck myself up energetically (or something - idk what it was), have nightmares nightly, etc.

I more or less /have/ to do it because I need to tie up some loose ends and my way of dealing with issues is to lean towards them by informing myself rather than turn away.

I'm currently looking at Josephine McCarthy's book on the topic, and Jason Miller. Are these authors good? I swear Josephine makes my OCD act up like hell even though I generally like her.

BTW part of the reason I'm seeking this information is because some healing methods I have used work incredibly well for me, but the problem is their authors are new agers - meaning, they assume everything is light and fluffy. I don't. I want to be ready if something goes wrong, and want to know what can since a lot has in the past, and I'm not in a place in my life where I can afford needless risk.

I'm sorry all my posts are these questions, I'm not trying to be lazy. I came here to ask after spending lots of time researching multiple book lists, listening to different opinions, and looking at what people from different traditions seem to think regarding this stuff. 

 

On 2/24/2023 at 2:20 AM, Nungali said:

Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Grandpa .

Lol! Nice one. I doubt I'd be able to invoke if I banished in that case..

On 2/26/2023 at 1:40 AM, Klinsly said:

It's a good question and it looks like you got some good answers already! I have limited experience with the Golden Dawn, only 1 year, but just in my  Semi Armchair opinion from my overall analysis of many of the type of people that join those types of orders or systems. Most are likely very unqualified to actually do the work you could say. Which is why banishing for a while might be a good idea. Many are still very egotistical, and have not done much work on purifying themselves of vices and petty attitudes of things like  revenge etc, even in the leadership. They may be very talented or incredibly interested in the material, but probably shouldn't be doing it. There was a reason ancient mystery schools and some modern had like a year of a probationary period  to see if people were actually worthy to become initiates. It can become very culty which kinda reinforces my opinion, and why I bailed after a year. Some spend 20 years in and haven't improved their character much at all. Then others absolutely thrive. So obviously it's not everyone but many might be getting into it for the wrong reasons perhaps?  

I'd say it was just the one I joined but it seems to be a sterotype of many different ones based on what I've heard from former adepts of other orders who run podcasts.  Like Esoterinerd and Magick without Fears. And another is they usually self destruct just repeating the same history.

 

Just some thoughts. Could be completely wrong.

 

This makes sense to me, yeah. I settled on not doing the LBRP and mostly just sticking to easy, low-weight folk methods instead of using it as I felt like I don't know enough about these somewhat nuclear-grade methods (compared to lighter ones I mean..) to be deploying them in a house I share with multiple people and animals during a pandemic where any changes may be harmful. Also felt like the 19th century western schools were kind hardcore and that I don't know enough about what I'm summoning/calling upon. Basically, just felt not ready enough and an inner sense of discomfort. 

12 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I don't think nurses are evil.  I don't even think most Satanists are evil, try as they might.  The post just struck me as funny, though I might have shared it in "Current Events" instead of this thread as the humor is admittedly niche.

Dw I was just kidding. I think it didn't come over on text or something. Nurses are normal, the ones I've met either didn't talk much or were nice to me. 
Are these Satanists the real deal or are these guys like the Satanic Church I think it was, who're just trolling to make a larger point?

3 minutes ago, steve said:

I've met a rare evil nurse. 

Nearly physically assaulted one once.

The vast majority, however, have been caring and strong human beings with very big hearts, and a little ego.

Can't think of another group of people I'd rather hang out with.

Yeah I think the bad ones are probably a vocal minority. Now doctors on the other hand.. genuinely 50/50 in my country! 
Must've been a really annoying one if you wanted to physically assault them hahaha

8 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Satanic Convention Requires Proof of COVID Vaccination (substack.com)

 

People of a certain ideological bent think this is a good thing.  

 

 

What do you mean, brother? Of course Satan would like vaccines!!! Nurses are evil, I tell ya hwat!

Here's something that'll tickle your funny bone, though: when I was about to type 'Satan', the poltergeist activity in my house acted up again. (((internal screaming)))

 

33 minutes ago, Nungali said:

In that case I would use the    LBRG . 

 

 

 

If it's ok with you, can you explain how it works? Also, what is that? I've actually never heard of it before hahaha. Google turned up nothing when I searched for LBRG

2 hours ago, markern said:

Bruce Frantzis advices that people start off with a very modest amount of practice and then gradually increase practice time by only five minutes a month until the desired length is reached. He says this is safer. I think that sounds a bit too conservative but I think the general point is good. Start off with a moderate amount and only gradually increase practice time. The whole energy connected to plunging into intense practice is something I think can contribute to issues and side effects. Do a moderate amount and learn to digest it properly and give the mind and body time to become familiar with the effects instead of shocking the system by rapidly creating very intense experiences through a quickly ramped up intense practice. 

Another safety advice I think is good is that basic mindfulness should precede deeper investigations into the natura of self and reality. People who struggle with feeling their emotions with equanimity or being aware of their emotions at all should probably not plunge into noticing the three characteristics and dissolving their experience into little pieces right away but focus on feeling their emotions and bodily reactions in a healthy way first. 

A good system like Damo Mitchells Lotus Nei Gong has safety built into its progression. 

 

This makes a lot of sense. I agree w/ this, and your other comment has given me much to think about. I live in a bit of a chaotic environment so connecting with it is difficult, but I believe I can make it work somehow. I think I'll start with just developing a healthy stretching routine and simple things like that and build up. Thanks for the advices, friend!

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

Let's forget about those terms as they apply to specific rituals, as such, but look at them more generally .

 

Consider the 'banishing' ritual of the pentagram , how does that start ? I would say the first process is an invocation . Depending on what form of LBRP you are looking at, I am assuming it starts with 'bringing down' energy and making a cross of light in yourself ; invoking and balancing forces . Then, the person thus 'charged' , does the banishing ritual . Then when the forces are banished / balanced , the ritual ends with another invocation of the 'cross of light' .

 

To me it seems like the process of 'gradual purification '   'one has to start some where ' .  Eg .  In some systems the making of one's magical tools need other magical tools  - the symbols on some things might be charged by tracing over them with the magical dagger. But the magical dagger has symbols on it too , what is going to trace them ? The wand ? But that was symbols on it too .

 

At some stage, we have to begin work with some type of 'Prima Materia' . 

 

( Yeah ... I know , 'nowadays' you just buy a 'ready' magical dagger on-line  .......       )

 

That might be behind why some groups get 'beginners' well up on the banishing ritual before they undertake invocations . Like making sure  the 'kid' know where the breaks are and how to use them  before you  take off down hill on the pushbike !

 

In the larger view and looking at magical applications in 'real life' , at first it seems best for the beginner to 'banish' - keep a clear or 'sacred space' around you .... 'push away' the negative .  After some time of practice ( and learning  ) it changes to more of an 'invocation' , in that one absorbs the energies and leans to transmute / balance them with other energies that can be absorbed  or exist  within .

 

In a way , it is similar to the approach in  ' karate '  - modern ( school kid karate - as that's what it was designed for ; primary school kids physical fitness program in Okinawa ) - they teach you to 'block' attacks  and those 'blocks' come with names like 'bari' or 'uke' , which dont mean 'block' at all , but describe the original ,  practical and workable techniques ; 'absorb' , 'spear' , 'enter' etc . One allows or even 'helps' the force into your 'sphere' and then that force is manipulated .

 

-  I am trying to be general here , and not specific nor focus exactly on ritual . Donald seems to have taken that up  and I think it's best to hear that  side of things from one source . Its a good source  .... there is 'other advice' about which is rather, fantastic, imaginative and illusory,   and very ..... I'll say 'self relevant' for the people that give it  out  - and I doubt it is based on relevant magical practice anyway .
 

 

  Hide contents

[ Another note on all this : I was recently talking to this guy I have known for about a year  - he 'meditates' every day  ... he 'does his practice' . Recently he filled out another application for Vipassana , he had to give details of other Vipassanas he had done . I was amazed at how many  he has done over the years - MANY hours .  He also spent some time , with his friend , with both of them trying to convince me how great and all encompassing their system was , and how I should do it .    

 

Then he goes away , old family biz. Comes back a spiritual , psychic and physical wreck . It all bought back bad stuff for him , 'picked up something' from a 'dark location'  , could not shake it  and actually ended up sick . When he shared all this with me and I suggested protection rituals , banishing type practices , 'clearing' , 'invoking' other energies , etc etc .  he  didnt have a clue what I was talking about  !   I have seen this a few times  ... people that do years long practice  and  have no 'skill' or haven't actually changed .

 

Our practices should be able to actually help us  ....' deal with things ' . ]

 

Wow, thanks for the informative reply!! Much appreciated. This makes a lot of sense. Does the LBRP banish anything that is beneficial? My mother for instance thinks my grandfather likes to visit and well.. I don't know how much sense that makes, but better safe than sorry.

3 minutes ago, Sketch said:

From my own commentary on the first part of the Dao De Jing;

 

All of this makes me picture

 a well-worn, maintained footpath

That was once a deer trail

which follows the contours of the land in such a way 

As to follow the watershed.

This is simply the natural way 

For all kinds of living creatures

to go, even without the obvious path, 

or markers of any kind.

 

A peaceful woodland trail

Created by all the varieties 

of movement along its length.

Dust motes in a sunbeam

Harmonize light filtered through trees

 

It very emphatically seems to exist!

 

It was all there

Before there were any blazes marking it.

 

I saw this while hiking along the Appalachian Trail.

This is amazing! Right down my alley. It reads a bit like Han Shan, in spirit at least. 

21 minutes ago, Sketch said:

Lao Tzu never told me what to do...but Involvement with Dao De Jing (and other early Daoist texts ) helped me develop my perspective, and has influenced my decisions and my approach to life over the years. 

 

I wouldn't call myself a Daoist though; I don't look good in the hat.

 

 

 

 

The Dao that doesn't wear cool hats is no Dao, my brother!! I once knew a sage who would constantly talk about how many hats they wore. They even had cool names like 'Father' 'Mother' 'CEO', etc. 

5 minutes ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

To banish and not invoke is a "popular" mistake.  The purpose of banishing is to create a clear space, so that invocation can proceed in a "cleansed" area.  The banishing Ritual of the Pentagram should always be followed by the invoking one, and I have always taught my students to follow both of these with the Rose Cross Ritual, a less well known, but extremely valuable ritual, which provides definite benefits.

 

ZYD

I'm happy to get a reply from you, as I consider you very informed!

Thanks for clearing up my doubts. I'll keep this in mind! Do you have any advice for a beginner on how to start and do so safely?

I saw a post on r/occult today that basically asked, why in Golden Dawn adjacent magick do people in the outer order banish and not invoke, and how does this not lead to a huge imbalance of energies?

I'm curious since I've been considering the LBRP for a while now (haven't done it, since I'm learning about all this stuff before doing anything) but now am hesitant.

How do you follow what the Dao de Jing tells you to do?

My completely mundane, but interesting experience: when I keep my body calm, and my mind relaxed but alert, sometimes everything seems to flow well. I also connect to my 'gut' easier, and know the next step more easily and can draw upon my experiences to create new ways of dealing with things easily. 

I don't think that's the Dao, but it does show the importance (imo) of training your mind and body to be calm but alert.

On 1/16/2023 at 11:11 PM, Maddie said:

I have experienced unwanted side effects from Christian practice, Qigong, meditation, mantras, and other practices over the years. I feel like this doesn't get discussed very much, but it should. 

 Has anyone else had adverse reactions to their practices? 

I have, from all of the above. In regards to the Christian methods, it's harder to do so if you're using methods like discursive meditation, just contemplating the goodness of God (note: not meditative contemplation, I mean verbal contemplation) and also the Christian prayer I did generally relies in my personal experience on the power of God to empower you to pray - I've been able to pray for upwards of an hour or two on end with high intensity with little harm. It is cleansing, uplifting, and efficacious. However, if you use 'Charismatic' or Pentecostal methods you can absolutely get fucked up bad in my opinion. They nick so much from New Age shit you don't know what you're mixing with what. Likewise with trying to do stuff like force the 'Baptism of the Holy Ghost' without any clue if you're doing something recommended and appropriate or not can lead to delusions, I think. I have also had poltertgeist-like activity start around the same time I started mixing up stuff and getting lazy and impatient, which I just took as a punishment for blasphemy, lol. Either that or it was caused by me thinking that way!

Re the qigong stuff, I've come to harm by mixing acupressure-based methods with Western magick stuff. I don't know wtf I was using at the time since I'm so unfamiliar with western magick and the guy whose products I was using was completely untransparent except he mentioned energies and so on. There are also some popular methods like variations on EFT that are popular for wrecking people. Likewise I think there's a real risk of reifying psychological and psychosomatic events and conditioning yourself when you try to play with chi/some force you're imagining as real (even if it exists, your imagination is a problem imo), and that's one of the harms I deal with - constant tingling bullshit and low-level sexual arousal! Also weird urges and shit. I can turn it off by grounding, though, usually. So no biggie.. I kid, it's irritating! I wanna be a cowboy, not a deviant..

As a Christian, I did 'meditation' - that is, internalized prayer with eyes closed, trying to use rigid phrases and stuff, briefly. Generally speaking, I found that trying to use prayer to control my inner experience was very bad for me psychologically, whereas praying in a verbal way, to God, was fairly harmless. But any attempt to control or condition my inner experience lead to altered states of consciousness and shenanigans like sexual hyperarousal and such. Annoying, and harmful.

That issue was unfortunately inherited by meditation in general for me. So no breath meditation for me without being able to focus on the external world, or everything gets wonky. I tighten, start to strive, my lower back starts to tremble.. all that stuff like that. Depends on what I'm doing. Not intense or anything, and I believe it's linked to intent. A greyness arises in me, and I get headaches and a sense of malaise within. A fuzziness type of thing. It's just classical conditioning or dissociation, or my brain getting confused, imo.

Mantras have energetic effects on me that are not unpleasant but that I feel I need experienced practitioners to explain: for instance, chanting the Nembutsu even once sometimes makes me feel a lot better, but it's a blissful experience almost. I don't think it's dangerous, in fact it seems to make all the general negativity I feel go away but since idk what's going on and I feel like other doubts I have regarding Buddhist doctrine itself make it feel disrespectful to the deity, I've reduced it for now. I want to chant honestly if I chant, not induce effects due to on some level wanting effects. I do believe Deities exist, I think, either way, so there is merit in honoring gods (or whatever they are) by keeping your distance when it is necessary, I feel.

Those are my side effects and experiences with various spiritual practices. I generally these days mostly rely on language-based, abstraction reliant methods. So like Internal Family Systems and Inner Relationship Focusing, imagining pictures, externalizing my emotions, etc. Head-based stuff, but with bodily engagement on some level. I've heard from another person who has issues with meditation that stuff like that works well for them without the intense side effects that they got from other methods.

Long post, but I wanted to share! I hope you can find something useful in my reply.  Note that I believe everyone is unique, and I understand that the problems you experience will probably be manifestations of your tendencies - so in my case, excessive control, tightness, rigidity, pushiness is how I've been internally since I was a kid. I take responsibility for that. It was a huge factor, along with my clinical OCD, in experiencing side effects. I don't mean to dismiss the methods themselves, or the traditions they came from.  It did me a lotta good. I first learnt self-love and acceptance by doing Christian prayer at the age of 12 - it was shoddy, bad prayer, but it seems whoever heard had mercy on me. It helped a LOT. Defined my life, in my opinion. 

Potential side-effects and harms, and spiritual issues in general, are now being worked into actual medicine - look up stuff like Qigong syndrome (I think it's called?), Trance Possession Disorder, and the whole section in the DSM called 'spiritual and religious issues' I think it was. So basically, you can't just get called a schizo if you think there's a demon (or deity) possessing you.

On 2/16/2023 at 3:03 AM, daojones said:

All good recommendations, but 

 

I guess you haven't dealt with higher level complex problems.

The methods that person mentioned can be pretty good, and the modality I'm somewhat familiar with (EMDR) is fairly complex, and high level. However you need a professional for it, and one trained specifically to deal w your issues.

re the method you mentioned: I don't think Dave Asprey is a trustworthy source of info. Dude's an online marketer type feller. Many of these methods are in their infancy, it might better to just wait. It's likely he's just popularizing stuff that's linked in some way to helping him make $$$. Not to mention, the "Vagus Nerve" stuff really oversimplifies the neuroscience and biology from what I've read. Hydrodissection seems to have nothing much to do w the vagus nerve from some googling? It seems to be a method for dealing with compressed nerves. I think he's just speculating here, considering the vagus nerve is a huge wellness fad right now.

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

Well you know a lot about mixing eastern and western traditions. Certainly a lot more than I do, lol … EFT? Google: China exchange-traded funds. ??? No, that's not it. LBRP? Sounds like Lots of BuRPing.  Google: Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. Oh, ok.  So definitely no advice from me. But I just thought I’d tag @Nungali and @Lairg here, as they might be able to help you. Wishing you well. 

 

Curiosity killed the cat; “pandemic”, which country do you live in?

 

Hahah, my bad. I'll edit the post to explain the abbreviations. I tend to get anxious and over-write or misapply myself.

I'm from India, btw! 

Oh my lord, I didn't know how to quote properly either :L fixed it

Hey guys! I apologize if this isn't the right section, I wasn't sure where to post this question since it's not just about one system or other. Please move it to the appropriate section if this isn't the right one for it! There's going to be a lot here, so here goes:

I've been doing occult stuff since I was like, 15. Some of it worked really well for me, and I credit it for helping change my life. Though obviously, I can't know what was just caused by my brain developing.. LOL. Either way, I used to struggle with /everything/ as a kid, including basic social awareness - hell, I used to do echolalia for hours on end, and whisper to myself in public. Some of this stuff seems to have helped me get out of that. It helped me feel empowered and like an actual person like other people around me naturally seemd to.

But obviously, if you start that young, you'll do stupid shit! And I did. Lots of stupid shit. I've even made the most classic rookie mistake of all time: Mantak Chia's stuff! Though I didn't do the 'energy' stuff, except once or twice. I've never trusted stuff like imagining energies going into my brain or anything - I don't even trust medication without a few google searches, let alone energies. I even avoided the third-eye point when doing EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques). I did the Mantak Chia stuff because I thought it was just a Kegel exercise type thing.. lol, does doing it just like that harm you? I can believe it might since the nerves in that region are pretty sensitive. I do notice some side-effects. As you guys can probably tell, I am a bit OCD.

Now I'm in my 20's and I've been wondering: what are best practices for safety? I don't mean, "Is x method the safest?", I mean what are general principles to maximize safety, how do you deal with Qi Deviation and psychosomatic issues, how do you mix things like Qigong and western magic without well, blowing up?

So far what I've heard is this kind of stuff, but I'm a beginner technically so there may be errors:

Always stay calm - don't take things too seriously, don't assume off the bat that spooky stuff is happening, don't take psychosomatic events like tingling to be real as a beginner and lose your cool.

Mentally: Don't strive and contrive, get good at acceptance, develop self-awareness and self-knowledge, practice critical thinking, practice being at ease, don't load everything with intent, etc. 

Physically/magically/energy-wise: ground by doing squats and progressive-muscle relaxation, banish energies (for western magick), find a teacher if you can, don't mix methods unless you absolutely know what you're doing, don't do magick carelessly, respect the rules of rituals, etc.

What would you add to this? Also, what are practices or technologies/methods every practitioner should use? In the Western tradition that'd be stuff like the LBRP and its variations, right? I want to use occult methods to help me get to a functional baseline - I have no problems with methods that require patience and long-term work as long as they're structured and produce minor daily results. For instance if someone says: "Do the LBRP, it'll help you get a routine and give you a boost of energy" I'd be fine just doing that for a few months. I'm familiar with psychotherapy and most psychotherapy stuff seems to take up to six months to work, so it's no big deal to have to build up.


Sorry guys, I know this is a lot. I've honestly just been bursting with these questions for ages. I'm open to advice regarding a better way of seeking advice. Actually, I'm open to advice in general, esp from the more experienced posters here. You've helped a lot in the past!

To round it up:
1) I've been doing stuff for like 10 yrs now, but started when I was young and so got up to shenanigans that backfired a little, but also good results (imo)

2) I want to know what the best general guidelines are to maximize your safety. I'm fine with some level of risk - you incur that even just washing your hands. I just want to go slow, steady, and get to a healthy baseline. Especially since I have had side-effects.

3) What are methods and practices everyone dabbling with this stuff, eastern and western, should know/use? Includes stuff like: Total beginner stuff, fundamentals, things that'll help you always, and so on.

4) I've had bad results from mixing methods in the past. How can you mix eastern and western methods without effing up? I ask because I have used eastern methods in the past (EFT) and they work for me, but using it with some other stuff seemed to cause issues. I was using subliminal tapes and so I actually don't know what energies or things conflicted and so on. The creator wasn't transparent about what he was doing. I use EFT, which works with qi (I think? It's acupressure) for psychological aid - how can I do this without trouble?

5) What are the best firefighting methods? Ideally you don't get a fire, but once you do, what do? I know Zhengyongdaoist tends to recommend you call upon a certain Daoist deity of compassion, for instance. I also know you should take rest for a few weeks if you fuck something up - this, generally, has worked well for me as well. Likewise stuff like physical exercise, going out for a walk, etc. Sadly I'm stuck at home and struggling with mental health and the pandemic, so can't do those.

I had other questions too but these are enough for now. It's fine to just direct me to resources btw! I can do my own reading, though I don't have any money right now.

As for why I want to use this stuff, and what for: I just want to be able to live in peace, and use it to make small steps towards getting better - for instance, boost my energy a bit, more mental clarity, make the odds work in my favor when I want to find doctors so I can find good, ethical ones, do better in my studies, etc. Also, without causing stuff to get worse, lol. My country is not the safest one to be in, and I struggle, so I just want to develop this skillset so I can do a bit better and preferably live with contentment. I'm fine with total rookie methods as long as they work.

If you've read this far, I appreciate it. I know it's a lot, I just need guidance since I feel a bit lost.

New user here, used to lurk a few years back. Recently been perusing it again. I've found this forum pretty useful in dealing with my OCD, and the posts of some of the members here - the more experienced, grounded ones - have informed my approach to the occult (and even stuff like meditation) a lot. 

Figured I'd join since I've been getting more actively involved with exploring techniques and technologies and want to do it safely and slowly.