Sahaja

Max Christiansen’s Kunlun book describes essentially the same procedure (sitting in a chair on a rubber mat with a mudra with some breath awareness exercises to calm you). It’s available as a free pdf online if you search a bit. I learned it initially from the free Kunlun pdf and later bought Jenny’s video to see if I was missing anything - her video also has some other more conventional qi gong on it. Yi gong/kunlun triggers zi fa gong (spontaneous movement) from freed up yang qi which is interesting but not particularly profound (more of a natural body process than a spiritual one). It does make one more aware of ones own qi movement which can be quite helpful in further cultivation. However it’s not just this Yi Gong mudra that generates zifagong. Many qi gong practices can and do including the standing static postures like wuji, Taiyi, zhang Zhuang and others.

Elation works for me - part of the definition of elation is that it is extreme happiness/excitement that can lead to being light headed. Like little children running and playing…full of heart energy. Eventually these sounds of children laughing and yelling turn to a child crying for their mother when they fall and hurt themselves - fear.(fire then water) The important thing about this heart energy excitement/elation is that it can overwhelm judgement and discernment (child excited to play running around without care then hurts himself because lack of discernment of risk). I think this fits better with the other emotions listed and can apply to adults as well who can be a little lacking in discernment and can make mistakes when they get too excited/elated.

My understanding is that a more accurate name for the emotion joy is something like the word excitation. To me joy is different, it’s part of the ziran virtues, particularly sympathetic and empathetic joy, joy without cause, naturally arising from following the path.

It’s fun to try to do these movements with just qi and yi. Just listen then release and the body to a large extant does the movements on its own from the mobilization of the qi. I think many of the movements of the various baduan Jin sets are intended to be done this way, not as conventional external body mechanics movements. I think the challenge is to take something that looks like an external stretch or twist and do it as much of it as possible internally with just song and ting (generating Jin in the process - the internal stretch).

Feeling good is a natural part of the spiritual process. Qi definitely has a biochemical, feel good component to it and its experience can be very pleasant (so neidan has the same risk as other paths). The default states of calm abiding and sympathetic joy and love all naturally put a small smile on your face. I think the natural “bliss” is likely found on any true spiritual path so one has to face it whatever path they choose. It’s yet another thing to accept as it is. Not a goal or particularly relevant, it just is. However I think it’s quite a different thing to do when you are in it (have gone beyond identity with the individuated mind into awareness) than when it is in you (you still identify with the individuated acquired mind). These default states are not emotions. Emotions are sensations in the body tied to specific discursive thoughts associated with and reinforcing to the identity with the individuated acquired mind. These natural default states are not tied to discursive thoughts. In fact their arising indicate you are moving away from discursive thoughts and toward awareness and ultimately awakening however that is defined on your path.

Here i am.. Pillar Heavenly Stem Earthly Branch Zodiac Animal Year Yi (乙) – Yin Wood Wei (未) – Goat Wood Goat Month Geng (庚) – Yang Metal Xu (戌) – Dog Metal Dog Day Ding (丁) – Yin Fire You (酉) – Rooster Fire Rooster Hour Ren (壬) – Yang Water Zi (子) – Rat Water Rat Day Master (Self) is Ding Fire (丁) — a candle flame or starlight Any observations would be welcome. added a little more 🎯 Summary Aspect Interpretation Day Master Ding Fire — soft, wise, spiritual light Luck Cycle (68–78) Reflection, mentoring, inner power, pressure to adapt 2025 Supportive year — Fire & Wood help you thrive Best Action Teach, share, write, or pass on knowledge Watch for Burnout from overthinking or emotional drainage

In my understanding of the Krama system it seems like Sakti was the main focus and shiva was acknowledged but not central to their praxis.. They were probably the most radical of the non dual saiva Tantra sects and held some fairly progressive ideas - practice was goddess centered (Kali not shiva was the destroyer- 12 Kali process), they did not believe or support or recognize the varna social stratification system of the day ( aka caste) clearly stating so in their key texts, women held important roles and founded the sect and they included transgressive practices in their praxis. . Representative texts of the Krama include the Innate Blossoming of Awareness and the Light on the Intimations of the Chumma that both describe their yoga of direct experience . They have some pretty interesting ideas for the time (circa 900 CE) . Seem closely related to the authors of the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra, which is much more well known text. First guru of Krama was from same geographic area/time that produced Padmasambhava who introduced Buddhism into Tibet. They emphasized: Shakti as the pathway and also the goal. The futility of conceptual or intellectual effort to reach the Absolute. The necessity of intense, direct inner practice followed by total surrender.

In some of the Tantric Saivism views (like the Krama) Shakti is viewed as the highest reality with Shiva still there but more passively in the background. There are even texts which have Shiva asking and Shakti answering the questions. Kali plays the intense part of Shakti’s role. It’s a non dual view but very different than advaita Vedanta. Everything is real, not illusion and is an expression of Shakti. Manifestation, time and death are embraced as part of Shakti’s power . Quite some intense and dynamic views in this one. First guru of the Krama sect was a woman. It’s views were important part of Abhinavaguptas classic exposition of Tantirc Saivism in the Tantraloka (around 1000 CE).

speaking of Shiva. There is a temple in South India called Chidambaram that has friezes of the 108 karanas of Shivas dances that is referenced in the early medieval text of the a great yogi Tirumalar - the Tirumantaram . A portion of them are used in self cultivation as a prelude to meditation. The last frames shows part of the initiation ceremony of the Mrigasthali Naths of the Goraknath temple of Pashupatanam temple complex in Katmandu. These are kanphata naths that have the center of their ears pierced as part of the initiation. As far as relating to the comparison topic this shows a link between the Tibetans (some of the pictures are from the temple in Lhasa Apso), Saivism/Naths in Nepal and the South India Siddhar tradition. The teacher featured in this once said there are paths in Buddhism, Yoga and Daoism that are comparable and at the beginning the practices are similar. However after the entry level it’s better to choose one and focus on it as each has its own way.

I had a teacher once that said the map is not the territory. I think what he meant was there was risk in getting too reliant on maps of reality because they are not the same as reality. The maps can give you a useful framework but your direct experience will show you things you didn’t see on the map, some real some not real. Your success or failure in traversing this ground will be determined by your discernment (and grace) It’s clear to me when I look at the various maps you laid out that they have some commonalities and some differences. The commonalities may be due to a shared underlying reality related to the nature of spirit/divinity and to the nature of human beings. There are also differences that are significant that aren’t always clear from just a cursory reading. For example what is meant by the name “Shiva”. I am not a big fan of comparisons across traditions as they tend to gloss over the depths/nuances of these differences in favor of the commonalities. This can result in both dilution in the richness of individual traditions and unnecessary tensions/conflicts over defense of their perceived uniqueness. Daoists talk about this issue as one intrinsic to “naming things”. I’ve used different maps from different traditions at different points of my life depending on what teacher I was learning from - so they aren’t mine, I am just borrowing them from the teacher to help me on the journey. However the writings of the proto Daoists like Zhuangzhi , Liezi and the Nei Yeh have held a particular resonance for me. Their sense of humor and humility about the nature of humans I find continually refreshing and insightful.

Depends on what sect you subscribe to. in classical tantric Shaivism, Shiva is considered the supreme being, the source of all existence, and the ultimate reality (Parabrahman).

I think the Tantric Saivites describe it as removing coverings (malas) as opposed to identification with something new. This is reflected soteriologically as a reversal of course back up through the tattvas including fundamental coverings like time and space. We are all inherently Shiva/sakti who has obscured their true nature with these coverings that result in our identification with the limited self reinforced by our individuated thoughts, emotions etc. Shiva/sakti allows this because they enjoy hiding and then rediscovering themselves (Lila-divine play). I personally relate better to a proto Daoist model than the tantric saivite one but I think both have common tantric elements.

I think it’s important to differentiate between phenomena (emotions, thoughts, memory, interpretations of sense data) that reinforce one’s identity with the individuated mind and those phenomena that reflect our natural default states arising from within us as a result of non doing (sympathetic joy, love, compassion, acceptance, forgiveness). The former separates us from the divine while the later reflects our connection to it. I think the process of moving beyond identity with the individuated mind to find the divinity within us shows us that we are actually within it.