Roses are red

Violets namely hued

The senses wreak deception

And a great many are fooled

By their electromagnetic cues

Perceive what perceives

If you truly wish to be free

From here to alternity

Its all within thee.

I agree, you don't. In many ways visualizing would a hindrance as many newcomers (and even long term practitioners) attempt to force it which isn't the point. Based on experience and conversation with others though I will say "feeling" the inner darkness as opposed to projecting scenes upon it is a boon for a cultivator. Feel free to think why that may be the case.

 

Interestingly at 10 minutes here Bruce mentions that he doesn't visualize and had a similar experience of hyper real vibrancy that I mentioned previously. So the facility is definitely there in all of us but activated differently. Do I take it from the general silence in response to this thread that most of the readers are fluent visualizers and have no idea of what I'm saying?

Exactly, its quite an interesting facet of awareness to explore. Directing your senses internally along with your awareness to see the seeing of sight (and the rest) generates some interesting questions.

I looked into this in depth with quite a few other people a while ago and it created some fascinating discussion. People often think everyones inner landscape is formed the same as there and it definitely isn't. We all have our own particular sensorial bias and even though we may use the same terminology in application it can be very different. Most surprising was how many people had never paid any attention to this.. Taking it to the next level, applying these insights to dream awareness will really make you think. Especially when it comes to which modalities are being activated like smell and taste which lots of research says shouldn't happen but reality says otherwise.

On 10/30/2021 at 5:59 AM, daojones said:

peptides 

 

 

I would like to hear more about this please. I know a couple of guys that take them but they are bodybuilders. What are the benefits for the rest of us? What do you take and why? What have you gained from them?

 

The bodybuilders use them for their sport. To give them a competitive edge. I kind of grasped the science behind it but it was all presented with a heavy dudebro slant and didn't seem relevant to me. First time I've heard anyone mention them on a spiritual forum so am intrigued.

Light - Install dimmer switches with warm, filament bulbs at home. Turn them down gradually as it gets closer to bed time. You can take it further with blue blocking glasses (Shooting frames are cheapest and best) and activating the blue reducing "Night Mode" on your computer/phone. Artificial light in general really messes with your hormone rhythms which is why going for a walk with sunrise and sunset is so good.

 

Walk - Quite simply the best overall exercise, ever. Its benefits are immense and in many ways its the original moving meditation. Can really delve into your embodiment when you combine a simple stroll and one pointed awareness. A lot comes up which you can just witness and let go. Not to mention the physical benefits and social as well.

 

Glass - As in store your food in it. Plastics are terrible things for us and the planet. Totally ubiquitous though. I shudder when I see people microwave things in plastic containers. Double whammy of dumbness. 

 

 

Whatever popped into your mind. The thought that motivated you to click this thread. If it was a discussion, recommendation, course etc please feel free to link it up. Also you can discuss how it influenced your development or whatever else you wish that falls within the scope of this thread.

 

After all forums create interaction, interaction births inspiration and inspiration leads to action which loops again. As defined:

 

Quote

inspiration

[ in-spuh-rey-shuhn ]

---

noun

an inspiring or animating action or influence: I cannot write poetry without inspiration.

something inspired, as an idea.

a result of inspired activity.

a thing or person that inspires.

Theology.

1. a divine influence directly and immediately exerted upon the mind or soul.
2. the divine quality of the writings or words of a person so influenced.

the drawing of air into the lungs; inhalation.

 

Such a beautiful word that points to even better experiences.

Yes. It truly is amazing when you think about it.

 

There is one thing that is everything, itself nothing, which we make anything and call "me". The concept of being things which labour under the illusion of having a self was a favourite topic of a local moocher I knew. Quite a joyless way to see the world but made for some interesting conversations for sure.

 

Actually, its quite fascinating how ones worldview can either be reductive or expansive, on the whole, and the influence this has on how you interpret everything. There are only two ways to live: One is that everything is a miracle, the other as nothing is. Either way you will find what you seek so choose wisely.

3 hours ago, Small Fur said:

You ask other humans who are on a spiritual journey themselves to answer the question to a statement given thousands of years ago, in a specific context, by someone who had fully liberated themselves. It's not necessary to demean the whole of a path or place because someone(s) along the way who have not yet reached the end point themselves, and so do not yet know the resulting answers, cannot answer you right now.

 

Surely then its a case of the partially sighted leading the blind? None offered to say "I'll ask someone who knows more and get back to you as thats an interesting question". Instead they just plough on with no insight. The irony of this wasn't lost on me, was it on you?

 

3 hours ago, Small Fur said:

Your own sense to (subconsciously) exalt one path or one group of people (in this case Buddhists) over another makes you bristle when they fall short of your expectations in being able to answer your question regarding what it is to, or why we might or might not exalt anything at all.  It is ok if we all fall short sometimes in understanding; it is a process for everyone. Everyone is trying in their own way, and the effort in giving reverence is still at the end of the day a more noble use of efforts then to look upon others in condescension.

 

You seem to be projecting a lot whilst simultaneously not hearing what I'm saying. Quoting myself:

 

"If you wish to be like he do as he did, no more no less. This simple truth seems to go over the heads of the devout is virtually every faith I've noticed."

 

Therefore there is no exaltation nor condescension present or intended. Just curiosity and the open mind of a child who asks questions to that which they wish to comprehend. Emperors new clothes but in a real life setting. Also I've spoke to Christians preachers and Muslim Imams etc.. as well about similar contradictions in their way and they also reacted similarly. Not surprising due to emotional investment and group think so its not just Buddhists even though they were the start of this example. Cults of personality as I said and all this brings. 

 

3 hours ago, Small Fur said:

You say you thought it was a 'given' that someone should know something that they try and live by each and every day. Yet how many day to day things have you ever done before one day waking up a decade later, or decades later, or even life times later to realize you had no idea what it was you were actually doing? We have all been through many lifetimes. We can all have peace and acceptance in our own unknowingness and the unknowingness of others.

And there can also be peace and acceptance in knowing if you allow it- would you allow it? (or will all answers be chalked up to a cynical heart?)  It is valuable to be able to ask your discerning questions from an open heart, especially since it is that you also care about this so much one as to have been vexed by the lack of clarity and seemingly poor reception.

 

Not so much the followers but I would definitely expect the guide to know where he was going, yes. Otherwise you can sit there in all the robes and tinkle tingshaws as much as you want. If underneath it lacks experience/development then that person is doing those in his care a disservice with his imitation of evolution. This is rife in many fields. Can the fake lead you to a real place or does that mean you're destined to spin empty wheels?

 

3 hours ago, Small Fur said:

First, let me share a bit about my own experience with you. When I was younger and new to the yoga 'scene', I was very surprised how at the end of every practice everyone would stand around together, hands clasped bowing at one another and saying 'namaste'. I was quiet baffled by it and not sure what to think... or do! I didn't know what it meant. Years later, after having gone through a period of awakening, I began teaching and to my own surprise, found myself, hands clasped at the end of sessions and bowing to my students... spontaneously and naturally! Now even much, much further in my own path and in working with students, I continue to do this spontaneously, naturally... and now, also very deeply. Some times I see in my students eyes the sheepish act of following along and not knowing why, sometimes I see in their eyes contrivance and disingenuous return, sometimes I see resistance, or that they are just tolerating this very strange thing I do! Some refuse to do it at all, some look at a loss as to what what I might be doing, some just love it and do it without knowing much why or thinking twice! It's all wonderful.  

 

So...

 

First, like any mudra, there is a connection between paths of energies (meridians), energy centers (ie.,. chakras, palms) and a polarity into the heavens and earth from our body (via bai hui and hui yin). When  we hold a mudra, we create a connection and circuit into the deeper sources of energies of the universe. This particular mudra creates a circuit of insight between the eyes of the palms (PC8- Lao Gong) from the center of the heart and connects to the core of our bodies (chong mai), acting as an axis to root the heavens into this world in an expression of heart-centered reverence.  In xi shen- the human conditioning of ideas, doing this can have all sorts of "meaning", maybe even from an 'unwitting cult of personalities'. But in a human that is pure and clear, whose heart is bright and free, it is easy to feel the reverence, joy and love for life in this gesture. It need not be more or less, it need not be a mind-based idea, nor a passion, nor a theatrical display of unrealized worship.

 

This is wonderfull and highlights what I'm speaking of nicely. BTW have you ever looked into the ancient and venerable art of Yoga to discover its true age and origin? I think you may be surprised. But then, if a lie takes you to the truth is it still a lie? I wonder... Do you?

 

3 hours ago, Small Fur said:

As for worship itself. It is easy when speaking to a group of religious of devotees as Buddha had, to see that many people have lost sight of themselves and even care for a deeper understanding to something else which they do not fully understand or may misunderstand. This process of relinquishing self-awareness, self-understanding, and becoming impassioned by projections, can create delusion. In addition, worship is often part of religious ritual and this adherence to conformity and decorum can also lead people to become mindless. This is what the Buddha means to address. It is not that the veneration of deities, religions or rituals should have to cause this, but nonetheless, many people prefer this process to their own processes and unconsciously choose to allow themselves to become obscured even as they attempt to become aware. So when the Buddha tells us not to let anything- including spiritual processes, become an 'opiate of the masses' he is pointing to this, which is not the same as suggesting that we cannot love, extol or revere from the goodness of our hearts in the most simple of ways.

This gesture or any form of love, devotion, reverence or worship are not "just a token"... unless we make it one. And it doesn't have to be an act of subversion, sublimation, ignorance, mindless exalting nor self-diminution ... unless we make it one.

Just as making love has certain postures and connection that can exalt us to bliss and to heavenly insight, so can these same acts cause harm, violence and depravity when done without consciousness. Because they are powerful.

The wish to give honor, to love, to have reverence, to commit to what we care about and to devote ourselves in those processes that are a part of worship, need not become an act of contrivance, falsity or gesture in mass delusion and they don't need to cause fear.

 

The Buddha taught this mudra and held many other mudras during his meditations in enlightened devotion and commitment to our potential for Liberation. They are all beautiful forms of transmissions, from the universe, to our hands and in to our hearts, so that we may better express the loving-kindness, compassion and acceptance that is the light of essence within us all.

 

 

Indeed but, much like the Buddhists I spoke to, you seem a tad miffed by the question (as evidenced by your tone but text is a limited medium, so...) and there is a lot of rationalization going on. The simple point was why do they not do as he said/did but as some middleman (who hasn't got where he was) did? Every religion, as far as I can see, does this to some greater or lesser extent. How many enlightened people have they produced? None. The definition of madness is doing the same, expecting different results. And yet people do then fool themselves as they make no progress. The self deception, ambivalence and general lack of insight is the point here. A surface level understanding. A dumbing down of profundity. The engagement of hollow rituals with no gumption to ask why.

 

Or in other words, the partially sighted leading the blind. Usually right off the end of a cliff or into a dead end of stunted awareness. All because no one dared to ask the questions which, in Buddhas case, he directed you to ask as a way of keeping balance and checks. Its right there in what he said to prevent this from occurring. And yet it did, does and will continue until people think about what they are doing like the man did himself.

Give it time, I'm sure the pharmaceutical industry will come up with some name... And some medication.

 

Point being, its amazing how our internal landscapes differ and yet we think everyone sees what we see. Or don't etc..

On 9/25/2021 at 12:31 PM, freeform said:

Of course hacking something fundamental like Sung basically makes it useless beyond a very shallow level. Sung has many layers and depths. Sung is the application of non-contrived action - Wei Wu Wei.

 

Inner smile is Wei - contrived action. It will feel nice and make you feel relaxed to a certain level. 
 

(Just as imagining having a million dollars might release some of the stress and fear of being broke.)

 

However as a tool for authentic cultivation - it will lead to a dead end very quickly.

 

Your sentiments are identical to a point I made in another thread about how the West tends to do this. A lot. It creates surface level spirituality as the bastardization by its very nature precludes any form of true development. In many ways its akin to spiritual steroids in that you may get the externals by "hacking" your way past the hard parts but its those parts that actually do the work and are the point all along. So strange when you think about it.

 

On 9/25/2021 at 3:02 PM, dmattwads said:

Inner smile was one of the first practices I began doing. I learned the Chia version but would combine it with the healing sounds. So inner smile and the matching color/attributes breathing in, and healing sound breathing out. I was surprised because it began to release all sorts of stuck emotions in the organs which I was not expecting nor prepared for. 

 

I like the sound of this. Great intuition. Would you like to share more of the process and your experiences with it as I'm intrigued.

Yes, it does seem that way. It struck me as strange because Buddha transcended all of that and forged his own path. The story I'd heard (maybe apocryphal, I haven't researched) was that his "Don't worship anything" statement was an admonishment to those who were seeing him as more than them. If you wish to be like he do as he did, no more no less. This simple truth seems to go over the heads of the devout is virtually every faith I've noticed.

 

Thought I'd ask on here as there seem to be a few Buddhists here. The reception at the meetings to this question was quite frosty though. You'd have thought I just flipped the tables over or something. Even the not joining in that part seemed to irk them, although it was hidden under a layer of faux tolerance but you could see they were miffed.

 

There's something about the West. It just renders everything artificial whether it intends to or not. I do agree about what you said with the language as it shapes our minds, which influence our behaviour, which dictates our life. You see it with anything it imports from East be it food, forms, norms or inspiration - it "McDonaldizes" it into something simplistic and derivative with the subtle complexity removed to create mass appeal. And yet in all this time its never birthed a wholly new or original system since the days of Alchemy and even that came from Egypt. 

1 minute ago, el_tortugo said:

 

I only shift to a vegan diet for a few months at a time. I could do it longer term if it didn't make me weak. I was vegan in my 20s for three years until one night I ate some seafood and dairy to be polite as a guest. I felt much better after that and reintroduced some dairy into my diet. I think I didn't have enough money or a nutritionist or a chef to make that work. I still don't. I'll look into keto and see if its something I can do right now. Sounds good. 

 

Oh, I forgot chocolate. Dang! I'm going to test this out further. It's a good time since I've turned my diet upside down this summer and am still messing with stuff.

 

Vegan works great as a short term "cleanse". It has benefits in that sense but long term I found it draining. Very unsustainable. After going Keto I discovered that was due to the insulin yoyo effect it creates. Apparently you can do Keto Vegetarian but I shudder to think what that would be like.

 

Also caffeine is hidden in so many things. I found it in so many medicines/supplements as well as things like Kombucha which is easy to overlook.

 

Its funny how people turn their food choices into ideologies and reference for the self identity. Such fragile egos as anything externally rooted is bound to be.

As the title says really. I went to a couple of Buddhist meetings and none of them could answer why they do this. Its in direct contradiction to their founders wishes and yet, they do. Stranger still was they prickled at me pointing it out. I know what you're going to say "Its a token of respect" etc but really its just worship/deification in another form.

 

Its odd because out of all of the spiritual paths I'd thought that they would have had the most self awareness. Given the nature of their day to day it seems like a given. Guess not. If you do, why? Do you see the cult of personality that surrounds this guy and his achievements, much like every other prophet, when he didn't want that at all. From what I can tell (and my knowledge of Buddhism could fit on the back of a stamp) his aim was liberation. Pure and simple. The rest is mere commentary. The devout however seem to tie themselves up in knots over pointless things or sit there spinning empty wheels thinking they're getting somewhere. I found it quite odd and didn't go back again. Prefer my solo practice.

1 minute ago, el_tortugo said:

 

I agree! I had cut out caffeine and cut back to a vegan, mostly raw diet for a few months. I slowly reintroduced cooked foods and soups with chicken broth and pork broths when I began feeling drained. I need to look into keto. I've been maintaining calorie reduction and its great!

 

The Vegan thing is such a con. Sure it has some upsides but downsides are bad. Earth now isn't Earth thousands of years ago when you could do that. The food has no vitality so the bodymind can't maintain its spark correctly. It does feel pretty awesome for a while but thats the carb high as Veg diets are so carb heavy. Keto on the other hand is a pain to get into because your body will fight it so badly because it wants the carb hit. Once Ketosis kicks in though its like you've been upgraded to 4K from a 240p video. Everything is just so much crisper/sharper. Probably due to the the link between fats, nerves, the brain etc.. I highly recommend it.

 

4 minutes ago, el_tortugo said:

About caffeine, what do you think of green tea? I had cut that out, but have been drinking it again for a few weeks.

 

I personally cut out all caffeine. If I do have a treat of some dark chocolate I can immediately feel the difference. It also hangs around in my system at the root of the nerves and oscillates. That is what I think makes it so addictive and effective in terms of a boost as it "pulls" your energy out. When you detox from it "pushes" your energy like a band of resistance so it can't flow freely. Once its fully out of your system however you feel a stable equilibrium that really benefits sitting still. 

 

1 minute ago, el_tortugo said:

This is such great advice! I don't do it, but thanks for the reminder. Massage is a miracle. My favorites are Thai and Shiatsu. What kinds do you recommend?

 

Its essential and totally overlooked, sadly. Thai is the best for me. They really know what they're doing as full body for full body is perfect because of varying conductivity, energy points and pressure. Also because over there its part of the lifestyle and not something they went to school for a year to learn they just "get it" on a visceral level. The intuition on display from a good masseuse is a thing of beauty as its a great form of bodywork.

 

People buy a Starbucks every day and it costs nearly £5. Get rid of that and suddenly you've got £100 per month which means 2 massages and a much calmer nervous system. Everyone I've recommended this to said they can feel the difference and wouldn't go back to their old ways so give it a try..

Its the condition of not having any form of internal imagery. Visualization is out of the window as it just doesn't happen. All you see is darkness with your eyes closed. I've often wondered if the underlying process of this has something to do with your third eye? Anyway, how is your inner world?

It blew my mind when I first realized other people actually see pictures in their heads. Thanks to the internet I discovered what aphantasia is and suddenly it all made sense. @silent thunder have you made any progress with your wife? I'd really like to be able to "fix" this quirk as I spent so long wondering why any type of visualization exercise never worked for me. On the flipside I can hear with a level of intricacy that most people can't imagine so there's always an upside to everything I suppose.

Once after meditating late at night I went to bed and it felt like a cone of light was shooting out of my Ajna chakra. I could see a scene perfectly and it felt very much like a hologram projection with its 3Dness. Loads of detail and very interesting to witness. What made it even more so was that I have aphantasia (no mental pictures in my head) but this was hyper real. Very strange experience that I'm awaiting happening again once whatever aligned on that day aligns again.

 

I really expected to see a glow illuminating the room when I opened my eyes after peering around the scene as it was so vivid. Like the scene was floating there and my third eye had an energetic flashlight on it that I could move around and see other bits of the tableau. Even after opening my eyes to a dark room I could close them again and it was still there. Really cool.

 

Another time I was meditating when really tired and my body felt super heavy. Thats happened quite a few times since but the first time was a surprise. It felt like "me" was a stick person shaped light inside my body and even moving a finger took so much effort. Everything felt super dense and the "light body" inside was constrained by the flesh encased around it.

Oh goodie! This is my favourite area. I'll share a few hacks I especially like:

 

Keto -  Its hard to shift to because everyone is carb addicted but once you do (use an electrolyte drink, its essential to avoid Keto Flu) you will find your body and mind run spectacularly well. I've tried Vegan, Vegetarian etc.. everything you can name but Keto beats them all as it automatically leans you out as it uses your fat reserves for energy. Anyone with any kind of metabolic syndrome should really look into it.

 

Ashwagandha - Specifically the KSM-66 type, is a huge help when it comes to excess Cortisol production and how that has a knock on effect on the body. Its also quite cheap. Life changing supplement.

 

Caffeine - Cut it out of your life all together. You'll be so much happier without the up and down effect it has. That is once you get over the withdrawal symptoms. It will also take your meditation to another level as your nerves don't have that residual low level excitement in them any more. Lets you get way deeper into the experience. 

 

Massage - Get one at least every week. If you can't afford it shuffle things around and make it a priority. So many health benefits. We are made to touch and be touched.

 

The two article links aren't working any more?

Thank you. I'm more dao than bum but its the thought that counts!

Hi, I've signed up as I'm seeking some answers to various Qi Gong questions I have and to join in the discussion.

 

Thanks