stirling

Hello friends, It appears that Taomeow has locked herself out of the DaoBums. The contact email she gave years ago doesn't seem to work anymore. Is there anyone that has a working contact for her so we can help her get back on, assuming she wants to? PM a mod directly. Thanks!

In Buddhism at least there are two classes of enlightenment: That which you might encounter in a living being, and that of those that have extinguished the karma of birth and death (those that are "dead"). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_(Buddhism)#Nirvana_with_and_without_remainder_of_fuel

Probably. Still.

I wouldn't voluntarily submit to an assisted process labelled "dying" without a clear idea of what that means in context. When you have more information about the process or intent, please share here what that might entail.

I can see how you could take exception, and apologize if I have offended you - but why don't we go ahead and use it as you suggest? Would you be open to explaining what you mean by that?

So, Hare Krishnas, yes? A quick google says that leaving your body seems to refer to a death practice. Are you dying? Enlightenment wouldn't require that you leave your body, but would show you that "you" are not your body.

Let me put it this way: Most of us are quite convinced that Santa Claus isn't likely to be visiting this December because we now understand that it was just a story our parents told us. That knowledge is true no matter WHAT events take place in our day to day life, regardless of how difficult they are. So it is with understanding of the Dao. I stand by what I said above 100%. "Self" is a pernicious delusion that is at the heart of our suffering. Once that delusion is understood it is always present, regardless of how one behaves. The knowledge does not create a perfect "person", but does alter one's behavior substantially. Justification is a different issue. What we are talking about here is "spiritual bypassing" - using real or imagined "enlightenment" as some justification that all behaviors are "perfect" is delusion. Gnostic knowledge does not excuse bad behavior. This sort of teacher is deficient in compassion training. Any teacher that acts in a questionable manner would call it out immediately and correct themselves, or submit to correction at whatever level necessary. Again - it doesn't mean that they aren't enlightened necessarily. It takes many years after "awakening" to drop the most pernicious aspects of "self". Some things never go away. Some will never be teachers, and it isn't important that they ever are. An understanding of the Dao is always present, even when anger arises, and a master with no "self" may witness anger arise in the body, but not experience that as "self", or "mine". It's just plain human and kind to open up to those you see struggling, even a "master", if you have a close enough relationship. What could be learned about the teacher's process in examining their feelings and thoughts about a sticky issue? If this person really knows that all appearances are ultimately "empty", possibly a lot.

What tradition is this? What is the ultimate intention for this practice?

What matters is whether the teacher has attachment or aversion to smoking or drinking. Chogyam Trungpa was a famously heavy drinker, but only a fool would question the depth of his understanding or teachings. His book "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism" is a stark but kind bitchslap that many people could use. Ultimately the fabric of this "universe" is a mirror for each of us, showing us our attachments, aversions and where we are stuck in our solidified ideas about how things have to be. For some, it will takesa smoking, drinking teacher to wake us up and see that what we are seeking is deeper than the facade of the human that might be presenting the teachings.

Masters are NOT administrators.

The most realized teachers are calm, kind, thoughtful, and humorous. They are unperturbed by almost any NORMAL life circumstances. Having said all of that, they are earth-bound, live in human bodies. They are experiencing what we would call "enlightenment with residue", that residue being the human story they still experience. The Buddha and Jesus still got angry for short spells as any "enlightened" master you meet on this planet will. I personally think it is good to see someone you respect handle a difficult situation with aplomb, even when the first thing they say is, "Shit!". Emotions should come and go like rain, or the tide, or the sunset. They are manifestations of impermanence that don't ultimately belong to a person. Where there is an hour, or a day of non-stop fretting and worry watching such a teacher closely or offering to help is not only human, but the reply should be illuminating.

I shall take that under advisement, sir.

Well... I didn't mean you specifically, silly, but thanks for jumping in! I consider reality to be what is perceived. That rules out a lot of things in some moments, and a lot of other things in others moments. Any god that has a separate existence from everything else is ruled out for me. As a CONCEPT ONLY, an impersonal god that is inseparable but ALSO and has no separate will? Perhaps... well... something like that anyway.

Some of you may decide otherwise, but we are in fact STILL the same people who used to have more time to chat with you before we took on this thankless and unpaid job out of love for the board and your company. We were, and are, STILL your friends.

Some spiritual masters DO go to protests. Here is a picture of my late teacher Jana Drakka at a protest: She isn't shouting, or giving money, or waving a flag, but I think her message is quite clear, and its effectiveness can be measured by the space she is creating, both mentally and physically right where she is, though its real effects are much larger and less visible. It is the policy of the San Francisco Zen Center that NO monk living there can demonstrate at a protest EXCEPT by doing just as Jana is here.

Of course Buddhism mentions MANY gods, but they are missing something that any being with enlightenment realizes and understands - even a god does not exist as a being with its own intrinsic existence, which completely changes the hierarchical landscape. Despite having always been an agnostic, my experience is that gods are real... but they aren't what you might think they are. They certainly aren't in charge. As Ramana Maharshi suggests:

That is fantastic news! Welcome back Taomeow!

You mean Daoism, some specific text(s)? Absolutely... but all of that can be seen right now, right here. It can even be seen by someone without insight, actually. To enlightened mind other realms, gods, dimensions, would still appear as Relative constructs. Enlightened mind would see that the "Dao" is the salient quality of those locations/beings/planes as well - that they didn't constitute some higher understanding or experience.

That may be how things end up, but there aren't teachings that really reach out that far that aren't storytelling and have the Dao as their basis, at least as far as I am aware.... and I have looked. Even the Buddha said that once "self" is dropped, you can let go of Buddhism in his raft story. As the 6th Zen patriarch said: Where "self" has completely dropped away and identification is now with the Dao/Rigpa/awareness/emptiness there IS no reincarnation or rebirth. Belief in the idea of some place you have been or someplace to go drops away as the concept of Space collapses. This is true also for separation. Over time, the experience of a "self" separate from experience drops away as dualities fall away. None of this means you are going anywhere, unless the intention arises in you to move to a new house, or make new friends. Even then, you haven't really gone anywhere. You only wake up once, but the dream of separateness doesn't go anywhere as far as I can tell... it is just understood to be what it is. There is a fairly simple (but difficult to grasp) misunderstanding. Sometimes that misunderstanding becomes clear.

Every "enlightened" colleague I have had the pleasure to know would say that the only way to SEE the "Dao" is to look at the phenomenal world of form. This is why the Buddha said, so elegantly and clearly: Think of it like this: You are holding up a prism and looking at reality. It distorts what you see somewhat, but there are recognizable separate and familiar objects in your perspective through it. There is a chair, a table, etc. Now imagine that, through a dramatic shift, that prism shifts over just ONE facet and that, in addition to still seeing the previous view there is now one other unmistakeable and overwhelmingly pervasive characteristic - the ability to also simultaneously see the sharp, vivid, still, silent lack of ANY separateness or characteristics in that view. You can still see the chair and table, but they are simultaneously inseparable from the whole AND also the same named, labeled objects with purposes and characteristics they have always been. We can't look at any other world that this one, so THIS is where we apprehend the Dao/emptiness.

Yes. Karma is more the story of the PERSON you imagine you are. So, if you say something terrible to someone you might think to yourself, "I have always been an asshole". If you accidentally step on a snail, you might say to yourself, "I have murdered an innocent snail... I am a murderer". When there is no "self" that story-telling stops and the karma that specifically belongs to a "self" ends. In the end it is INTENTION that matters. Karma is also used as an explanation for why the world you live in looks the way it does, and why the things that happen to you do. I think of this as the "ancient twisted karma". On this count my personal opinion is that we really have no way of knowing why this moment is the way it is beyond seeing what causes and conditions are present in it. Sometimes we recognize those causes and conditions, but often we don't. Are they from past lives etc.? All of my training has been that this is the case, but, speaking solely for myself, I only believe what this moment tells me, and there is no evidence for such a supposition, and no reason to believe that the present moment isn't the only "real" one. Yes. You are probably right, or close to it. I don't know, since it isn't within my tradition or study, but if I were guessing I'd say it was for positive reinforcement as you suggest.

None of that will go anywhere, only the identification with those things. It is a great relief, actually.

Awakening happens here, now. What does it look like? It looks like this, only it can be seen that emptiness is the primary salient characteristic of all form, and that form and emptiness are inseparable. Time, Space, and Self are all obvious delusions. There is nowhere to go but here, no-time to be in aside from now. Feel free to message me for more detail or specific questions.

...and then realize that there was never a bondage, or anything to get out of.