stirling

“The truth” is a rare commodity. If you are convinced that it belongs to you, be prepared to find out that it doesn’t, eventually.

You aren’t going to be banned for having a contrary opinion, but you might need support it robustly. 🙂 Since you are new here, take some time to evaluate for yourself our cast of characters before you decide who knows what is true. Hint: Teachers with real insight tend to be kind. _/\_

An interesting discussion of the movie "A Dark Song" and its working of the Abramelin ritual, a book on the Abramelin ritual and the movie itself, and a number of well-known (in the magick world) people who have attempted or completed the ritual. https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep336-the-magick-of-abramelin-duncan-barford-3 - Wish there were more details about how the HGA appears to those who have been successful and finished, but I'll probably buy the book anyway.

Yes! I would add to this that "intent" is important... what it is you want to get out of it and who that is for, and what damage might be the fallout. I watched to movie over the weekend, and I am inclined to agree with Barford - it DOES illuminate much of what I have seen about magick, but even more the BASICS of it. In my case, I had already had few years of visions, (including things some might characterize as the "dead", or "demons" (not that I believe in them in that way) and then in summoning the HGA an encounter very much in the flavor of the movie, though not the same."My" HGA was a very different affair, but had the same amazing realism, etc. Later I had the appearance of other Christian characters (I am NOT a Christian) that were MUCH more like the movie - gold breastplates and armor, the size/scale, etc. I understand why Barford says he teared up seeing this scene - it gets it right. Honestly, this part seems impossible to me... a complete delusion. None of these things exists as a truly separate thing to command in my experience, and IF the HGA is commensurate with "stream entry" in Buddhism, anyone what saw it would KNOW that, or come to realize in a short time. My first thought about this was, if HGA conversation IS the same as "stream entry", why would you bother what what I would think of as a very worldly practice like trying to manipulate other beings or people? Ngondro is a clearing, and becoming familiar with the path. It digs up the stuff you have been avoiding dealing with.. BUT it actually has the whole path in it and could enlighten you itself. The famous Dudjom Rinpoche of the Nyingma tradition (the Buddhist tradition I worked in primarily) did it even AFTER his enlightenment, and until his death.

Masters only suffer in the realization that there is suffering.

Yes, just this. BE awareness. Don't worry where memory goes, what you need to remember will arise when needed. Just notice what arises. Don't feel you have to keep track. _/\_ Just this.

Yes! What arises is just that, has no deeper meaning or conceptual stratification. This brings to mind Bahiya of the Bark Cloth, possibly the first non-dual Buddhist document: It IS Zen! Absolutely! Zen is: What does that mean? Reality (as it NOW is), without your ideas and concepts about how it should be, IS reality. So, yes, there is just awareness of body, feelings, and mind and the coming and going of its states... but ALSO realization that "I" is NONE OF THESE. Nowhere in all of these does "self" hide. Do I "believe" it? Absolutely not. A belief is something we hold in the mind when we don't have the experience to PROVE it. I would entreat anyone doing this practice NOT to settle for beliefs... INSIST on actual experience! Theories, ideas, and interpretations are ultimately useless. The Buddha entreated us to try the teachings and use our experience to see the truth of his teachings. What we are looking for is not our cobbled together ideas but our EXPERIENTIAL KNOWLEDGE. _/\_

Body, or MIND. Look carefully. What are "you"? My experience is that "self" is a set of conceptual underpinnings We create continuity from moment to moment, feeding that conceptual structure. When my mind is still that entire process falls away. Have a look and tell me what happens. Yes. Wonderful. This is the path - only a step away from liberation. Learning to keep our attention on what is present in this moment, dropping our history, and just being. It is great that you are focusing you what you can experientially know, and dropping conjecture or storytelling. Yes! But how to translate this into gnosis? Use your meditation practice to bathe in this being-ness. Are you feeling dis-illusioned? This is a dis-illusion-ment business! If you truly can't find a "spirit" you ARE seeing the "emptiness" of things. Keep looking.

...and I change my mind. Why abandon such a rich topic when there is so much LEARNING TO BE DONE! This idea: The world is perfect - comes at us from ALL sides of the "Eastern" spiritual traditions. OldBob, my friend, I am sorry that your weary eyes make you suffer over the chaos of the world, but there IS something else under that suffering that can be seen at the same time, that has always been there. _/\_

I'm out too. If OB can't be bothered, neither can I.

Uh.... thanks? Your vague allusions make it hard to have a conversation. This looks like a dead end. I'll revise my answer to this one: Without a more clear answer, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

Can you be a little more verbose, and precise?

In my experience this is 100% the case. I have had a number of nights where I watched myself sleep and dream as a "witness" rather than a participant. It is absolutely possible to take the bare awareness of a practice like shikantaza or dzogchen and have that be present when asleep. We are ALWAYS just awareness. This is obviously the premise of Tibetan dream yogas, which I have researched. My success with inducing this is non-existent, but when it has occurred it has (2 out of 4 times) been after being on retreat. Gerard, I don't think you read the text properly, we aren't talking about the conventional way of thinking about "astral travel". This isn't a siddhi. In fact, Patanjali would absolutely agree that it is possible to see that reality is dream-like (or "a dream") in both waking and sleeping. Siddhi's are only distracting for those that would use them to gratify attachment or aversion, as you suggest. They will also occur naturally of their own accord, without being sought, as the belief in the solidity of "reality" is eroded.

I think the requirement for some suffering is directly linked to just how obscured one is. Doing such a thing for revenge (tons of obscuration) or money (less so, but still) or what have you seems unlikely to pay dividends and at the very least be quite a difficult journey, as opposed to something like: I want to end my suffering", or "I want to understand the nature of reality". How difficult is ends up being isn't caused by some supernatural force, but by the problematic delusions of the caster. Just my opinion, of course. Having done the ngondro, I am inclined to agree. Struck me precisely the same way.

Not at all. It is the realization that you have had a mistaken view of how the world, and that insight liberates "you". It is MUCH larger understanding that transforms the reality you thought you knew.

Well, yes, just as your post is your "take", although I would proffer the caveat - not my "take", but actually my experience. Which schools, specifically, are you talking about? Isn't that the same as what I suggested in my post: ...also the same, yes? The metaphor of the Gateless Gate comes to mind.

Someone who says things like "all is perfect" but doesn't have that as their lived experience is actually creating MORE suffering for themselves and deserves compassion. In reality the "transcendent" doesn't exist. There is nothing to transcend. What one might think of the transcendent is always RIGHT HERE. When someone with this understanding says that things are "perfect", they don't mean "ideal" they mean that they can't be any other way in this moment. The causes and conditions of this moment have come together to create things as they are right now. This isn't ever a denial of suffering, it is a statement of how things are. The only reason for a person to continue speaking teachings is to benefit others, and compassion for the suffering of others is generally what drives that. Parroting teachings even by someone who doesn't have the realization to go with it can be beneficial, but denying the reality of someone's experience of suffering isn't kind, it's true. Someone with "attainment" would want to be of benefit to those who are suffering.

It depends on which Buddhism you mean, and what you mean by reincarnation? While there might be some believe in the idea of being being transmitted into new bodies, certainly from a Mahayana perspective this does not happen. From a famous and respected Theravada priests perspective: From the perspective of the Buddha's Diamond Sutra, well-known as a touchstone of the Mahayana tradition: Enlightened beings are not exclusive, or truly part of ANY religion or philosophy, hierarchy, or belief system. They realize that all such constructs only exist in the thinking mind. What they are not subject to birth or death. What YOU are is the same.

Imagination.

I think it's more of a joust. Or maybe a drinking game...

It's true!

If you want to know your past life, look into your present condition; if you want to know your future life, look at your present actions. - Padmasambhava

Sounds like you weren't in Kansas anymore, Toto.

That guy is NEVER going to survive, unless he gets a little crazy.

Not that I have pursued ALL of 1 - 8 but it is obvious how this is undoubtedly true when seen from 9. _/\_