statusquovadis

Hi, may I have a PPD please? Thank you 

6 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

In terms of content of the practice she teaches it seems to me that she completely bases everything on the sensations that you experience during meditation, which to me is a red flag. My teachers and others say that you should ignore sensations that occur because they often change (and might be different for each person) and also that they are not a sign of progress or an achievement, just something that happens along the way. 
 

In terms of her manners and delivery there is no excuse, many members of this site are from her country and they aren’t unnecessarily rude to others. 

 

Thank you for your reply. I may not necessarily agree with your view (about  taking sensations as practice marker/ map), but thank you for replying in good faith. I understand now that you're concerned about newcomers being misled. 

22 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

No I am not confident based on her behaviour and my and other’s interaction with her. I’m confident in many other techniques, lineages and teachers apart from my own and encourage everyone to follow their own path safely. However I cannot recommend Awaken to any newcomers here.

 

But by all means I’m willing to be proven wrong if anyone wants to take the risk and learn from her.

 

I haven't been around here much, mind stating factually and briefly what caused this kind of doubt? In this thread I only saw someone mentioning it was the manner, reminding them of a school teacher or something. Then there were remarks about cults. But looking at the content (not the delivery, which I'm taking the benefit of doubt and attribute to cultural and language difference) of what's been shared here it still seems fairly legit to me. 

23 hours ago, senseless virtue said:

@statusquovadis

 

 

Here is one, please enjoy.

 

Sorry, don't understand the reference. Is this OP, awaken? 

 

Edit: after watching the video, a more humorous take would be: If that's really awaken (who's probably 50-60 years old) that would be the greatest advertisement ever for her meditation methods! 😄

23 hours ago, senseless virtue said:

 

What motivates your hobby? Are you still trying to discover what type of practice actually interests you?

 

 

Been practicing extensively across the sea, predominantly Buddhist meditation stuff. I'm curious about the Taoism side. Good question about what motivates me. No longer seeking for myself, but perhaps understanding of different types of meditation can help others. From a non-dogmatic, pragmatic perspective it is also interesting to see what works, what doesn't, and why.

11 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

If you are so confident in her teachings and knowledge, why don’t you become her student? If you do please keep us updated and maybe prove us all wrong 

 

Might do that, when the time is right. I'm kind of a collector of meditation techniques, and thanks to this topic started reading Wu Zhen Pian (Pregadio's translation).

 

Why, are you not confident? Only confident of your own teaching, or your teacher's? 

And to the detractors, while this is a fairly free-speech forum, I do think you guys should reflect on your motivations of doing so. OP here is offering knowledge that's been collected over decades of her life, for free. If you don't think it is worth it, or can't see the value of it, move on. 

Hi @awaken thanks for writing/translating these. Will come back to this as reference if and when i go back to serious meditation practice and as a bonus I would probably learn Chinese in the process. Just a couple of questions if you don't mind:

 

1. Is what you're based on The Secret of the Golden Flower? Or from multiple sources plus your own experience.

 

2. What does it mean when it is said "hide the LDT (lower dantian) from shen from the ming men direction"?

 

3. If there has been occasional strong heat in the ming men area should I be worried? Have read variously that it is related to trauma release, yet another source mentions it is yin deficiency (especially with cold hands and feet), etc. 

 

Thanks if you would consider answering the above. Otherwise not to worry I'm in a good condition with stable life and lifelihood.

 

(deleted)

4 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

depends on where do you want to get to

 

Nowhere to go, nothing to do..

Curiosity still there though, sometimes. I don't know if that will be enough to get anything serious going.

Just a quick update. Still alive. Past two years have been exciting, as many people's lives have been. Not possible to go to China for the next while. Quite happy where I am. My meditation practice in the system I'm in has pretty much gone as far as it can, anything else would be just for fun. I have also been looking into shamanism and some inner works synergistic with it.

 

It's kinda funny seeing the post I made two years ago. Nonetheless, the generosity of everyone here, with your advice and suggestions, the humor and stories shared, offers of energy, etc. is much appreciated. 

 

As for Taoism. Still waiting for a chance encounter or something, but in the meantime going to look into material that's available publicly. Probably going to set up an altar of Taishang Laojun and get it activated. We'll see. 

1 minute ago, GSmaster said:

 

 

They can teach meditation, they can practice meditation for 25 years, but they don't know what meditation is.

 

It is a level that is hard to attain. It is no different from siddhi or a supernatural power.

 

Learning meditation is just as easy as becoming a Buddha.

 

The problem is that people believe they learned meditation, they teach it, they will never progress in the skill of meditation.

Personally I have reached quite a high / rare level, but I can see in front of me some much higher leves to be attained.

 

 

 

Agree that not *all* teachers of meditation know what they are doing, years of experience notwithstanding. But if you've been following current trends with what is called pragmatic dharma, you'll understand what i'm talking about.

 

Yes, there are higher levels still. It's an asymptote.

On 02/04/2020 at 11:36 PM, GSmaster said:

 

And you know whats funny?

 

Is that in kindergarten they will tell you that they all can meditate, and meditation is something that they know how to do.

 

When you get to PhD levels, they will tell you that meditation is high level attainment and barely anyone can do it.

 

This is an interesting take.

As mentioned in OP, my path meanders from the physical (jing) to the mental (meditation, shen). Qi is something in between, which both sides touch on at some point. Very different approaches, and I bet those folks teaching meditation for beginners would like to have a word with you! 😄

 

I'd recommend John Yates' The Mind Illuminated to anyone interested in meditation but not quite sure how to go about it. Work up to stage 8-9 and tell me if it doesn't improve your practice at all.

On 27/03/2020 at 4:48 PM, Rara said:

 

It's actually quite spooky how that works with these guys. But one will definitely find their way if they allow it. I like to call it "heaven carrying us to places".

 

I honestly think the OP will make it. He might even be on his way now, against all odds lol

 

Haha, no just been buried under work stuff. And not knowing how the site notifications work. Practice happens as it happens... interesting times we are in. Take care and wishing you well! 

On 27/03/2020 at 9:55 AM, Wu Ming Jen said:

So someone asked what is the international language? (not yet because I keep posting with no replies) The answer is a combination of intention, body language and mental state of being. Everyone in the world can understand us with out any words.

 

The down side is we can not deceive and miss lead others with words, words greatest gifts are to say the half truths of our experience with false energetic quality. This makes for great actors and actress. What movies are made of...so great!

 

Thanks for the replies aka spam. Sorry i've been busy with RL stuff, didn't realize no email notification from thread replies.

 

Thanks again! With the virus and whatnots any plans delayed indefinitely but no issue practice can happen any place and time. Take care and be well, friend.

8 minutes ago, Rara said:

 

I've heard good things about Five Immortals Temple. I also recommend Dragongate, but you may find more Daoism/guidence at Five Immortals for what you are after. Kung Fu schools tend to focus more on just that and asking more questions is hard with limited Mandarin.

 

Worth taking leave from work and spending a couple of months out there. Post-Corona, that is.

 

You read my mind 😄

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Nope, chakras, not LDT. The LDT comes much later. Dantians and chakras are totally separate. 

 

 

 

I see. What's your school, if you don't mind? Thanks for answering the noob questions, btw.

7 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Rocking movements can occur as a means of channels for qi flow opening, at least in golden flower meditation and in Zhan Zhuang from our school. 

 

In general, the Glenn Morris book is questionable because people who have used it focus on third eye development and upper channel openings, which can easily lead to psychoses. Working from the bottom up is safer, but takes longer. 

 

Caveat emptor. 

 

By working from the bottom you mean strengthening jing, LDT work, and letting qi rise on its own? I can see how it can be much safer. As someone with no formal training, I observe accidental qi deviation is quite common with meditators, even when they are not practicing it on purpose. Wouldn't MCO be useful to help ground the rampant energy? I know theoretically it can be grounded automatically through the vessels that run to the heels, but won't an open network of meridians help?

 

Still laughing about the Akuma thing, it made my day 😂

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

 

FYI, you are quoting a known fraud and scammer whose knowledge of Taoism and neigong is abysmal. He has demonstrated that his skill is so bad that he once said Buddhists are demonic and had a demon that Buddhists worshipped who was haunting him--and the image he posted of the alleged demon was a character from Street Fighter, Akuma (Gouki in Japan), in a blog post. He has also had many fake accounts here and other sites praising him. 

 

Stay away from Tin Yat and Mak Tin Si/Mak Jo Si. 

 

This is why I find Daoist internal arts scary. At the end of the day, how does one know who to trust? There is still some amount of self discernment and intuition needed. Fortunately I'm not following this person's teaching, just a site that popped up when I searched yuan shen. I saw the term elsewhere a few days ago but was too lazy to try to find it again 😂

3 hours ago, virtue said:

 

Never a too bright thing do toy around and risk mixing energies, but it's important that you make it a learning experience like a child who puts its hand on the hot stove for the first time.

 

Lol, yes, shiny toys indeed! 🤩

 

Quote

 

Highly not recommended! True MCO is a natural consequence of correct practice and the practices that claim to stimulate it are mostly a scam that is bad for health.

 

Generally, visualizations in qigong are not the correct way to develop your mind nor cleansing karma that obstructs the meridians.

 

I have seen some discussions on MCO around here. I'm not much qualified to comment, but my own personal experience is this: the first description I had of MCO was from Glenn Morris book, Path Notes of an American Ninja Master or maybe the sequel. It was just a short innocuous paragraph, this was in the early 2000s, and there was hardly any information. That stuff really worked, I was sensing warm pressure along the prescribed path, and when it rounded the top of the head I started seeing golden lights and having parasympathetic activation (salivation, tearing). Also since then and for many years after I started experiencing rocking movements from the waist as I meditated. As mentioned in the first post, i couldn't find any guidance and just chalked it down to "interesting stuff that happened" and left it.

 

Skip forward to the present day, not as dramatic for sure (got other ways to make things shiny, lol). After the events 2 months ago, the MCO path often lights up on its own, especially the conception channel. My theory is that twenty years ago it wasn't fully opened, the yang governing channel opening more than the yin conception channel, producing some imbalance that actually kinda helped with meditation but also made the system prone to side effects. Just theorizing.

 

 

Quote

 

Where do you get this naming convention? I'm quite sure yuan shen means something entirely different.

 

https://www.tinyatdragon.com/blogs/spiritual/yuan-shen-yuen-sun-taoism-knowledge-101

 

I'm not sure if it is yuan shen, yuan qi or yang qi/ shen. What would you call it?

 

 

Edit:

 

From Damo Mitchell's White Moon book: "Yuan Shen is the undifferentiated light of illumination that exists before the five spirits of Hun, Shen, Yi, Zhi or Po refract into being. This is the true spirit of pure consciousness, the aspect of our nature that Buddhists may refer to as our innate ‘Buddha nature’."

 

I feel this is a close description to the thing I was referring to. Given I don't know for sure, I should have just described it. It is a non-dual field of awareness that extends beyond the physical body, encompass everything perceived, internal and external, with everything appearing to have equal density and inner light, and made of the same 'stuff' out of this undifferentiated mass.

1 hour ago, Piyadasi said:

Check out Damo Mitchell and Lotus Nei Gong. Lots of senior instructors and branches all over the place, might be a good fit for you (or might not!). A Comprehensive Guide to Daoist Nei Gong might be an interesting read for you too.

 

I'm reading that, also got a couple of his other books! Great stuff. Would love to train with his school but there isn't any where I live. Will try to join a retreat some time in the next few years.

1 hour ago, virtue said:

 

Relative beginner having already experienced deviations and starting from a poor health is a red flag. For this reason I would recommend special caution when selecting a suitable practice. Starting with a knowledgeable teacher will save you a lot of time and money. Check and double check if everything claimed matches to your own intuition, discernment, and gut sense.

 

Keep your mind open for opportunities and ask yourself why you would want to practice something particular. What are the downsides?

 

It may take a lot time before the really comfortable life path shows up to you. In the meanwhile stay true to yourself. The process of personal development is a matter of becoming a true person in every level.

 

Yeah, it is not uncommon among people who meditate a lot and can be more pronounced during retreats, due to the high mileage (like meditating 10-12 hours a day). Visions and emotional upheaval are not uncommon. I think as long as the meditator is aware that these symptoms come from meditation, don't attach to them and don't act out of them. Some meditation techniques are more prone to this issue.

 

I'm curious though if qualitatively there is a difference between qi deviation and side effects of meditation. I'm not too sure yet. So as mentioned I had a few side effects from meditation over the years, the most pronounced were during retreats, though I had some at home. They are known entities under the meditation paradigm and I was relatively unfazed. But the one that I was pretty sure was qi-related was around 2 months ago, when I started experimenting with a few neigong and qigong techniques in the span of a few days, including MCO, wind path (reverse orbit), qi deployment in martial arts practice, plus a couple of other things... lol. Plus it coincided with a new moon and jing depletion through blood loss. Next morning I woke up as if almost all spiritual powers (yuan shen) were gone, could barely sense my own qi movement, couldn't concentrate or string a sentence together, and needed to sleep a lot for a few days. After a couple of weeks things gradually returned to balance, and only a bit later and through some digging around I figured out how it could be explained through understanding jing, qi and shen and the rest of it. Must be basic stuff for resident bums here, but it was quite mindblowing for me.

@Earl Grey thank you for your replies and the kind offer. I started with another person already, so will have to take a rain check on it. The qi sickness links are super interesting, will need hours of reading later, but I believe I have had multiple minor forms of it, thankfully transient. I thought they were just a normal occurrence of the learning process (especially if self taught... lol!). Talk about self-fulfiling prophecy.

 

16 minutes ago, RiverSnake said:

KAP has solid techniques. Secret Smile, MCO, Chi Sweeps....etc. Those can take you quite far. I don't really teach or anything like that but can give you a push in the right direction if interested. Send me a PM.  

 

Thank you, will drop a PM.

27 minutes ago, ralis said:

Why not find your own path that suits you? Are you not able to think for yourself, but have a notion that someone here is better able to fix your path ahead for you? No one knows you better than yourself. 

 

Sorry, a follow up question. From my reading in this forum, the (?vocal) majority seem to think it is important to find a teacher and receive correct teachings, etc. Am I reading too much into it? You seem to lean towards the finding your own path camp, which is how I lean as well, under normal circumstances. Is it not supposed to be dangerous in energy works beyond the basics?