Yonkon

On 6.6.2019 at 8:24 PM, silent thunder said:

Do flowers unfold in great effort and straining?

Do trees grow through the acquisition of high skill and years of training?

 

What is, is what is... it is as it is without need for more, or less.

 

 I often get the feeling that my spiritual practices are connected with a lot of effort, resistance and struggle. Sometimes even force. I have this anxiety, that when i stop practicing with this "pressure" behind me, i will get no results, no progress and everything is in vain. Through writing this answer, i realized that i am strongly attached to the practices and the outcome of those. As you can read in my answer above, i'm not quite sure how one can let go of expectations. Is this possible in a practical sense or is this concept more like "spiritual poetry", like a vision of what could be.. ? Hope you understand.

On 6.6.2019 at 8:04 PM, silent thunder said:

So wei wu wei as 'doing without doing' has always resonated false with me.  (just my take, not trying to convince anyone else)

 

i imagine it more like "doing without letting the ego control the doing". Wu Wei Wu as action trough you, beyond yourself. The result is concrete physical action, but guided through something i can't comprehend yet.

On 6.6.2019 at 8:04 PM, silent thunder said:

For me, wei wu wei is experienced translated as 'action without forcing'.  Action (or non-action) that follows natural flow.  Action or non action that flows through awareness without overly being influenced, affected or intperted by intellectualizing in any overt manner
 

Great description, hits the nail on the head. But how do i stop my forcing? You say letting go of outcome, and i heard this often. This seems like a fantasy to me, can one truly let go of expectations? I think the state of "enlightenment" entails this, but can one let gradually of ones expectations, like piece for piece unraveling? Or is it more like this huge breakthrough ego death experience that seems (for me) highly unlikely?

 

On 6.6.2019 at 8:04 PM, silent thunder said:

waves to me are not made of water... waves are expressions of movement through water. 

action in wei wu wei is like this for me...

Beautiful analogy, and even scientifically correct

Greetings,

for the last days i experimented with doing nothing, just sitting or laying on the ground, doing nothing in particular. It's crazy hard to start, because to my quick fix mind it seems like a huge waste of time. Most of the time, it's pretty relaxing and healing.

Yesterday i tried something out. I was chilling with my girlfriend on the bed. Mostly i would do something (talk, touch), because i hate "awkward silence" or the thought that i would bore her. But i just contained my action and stopped doing. Not in the literal sense that i would not move and speak, but that i just remained in my inner stillness, wich resulted in less forced interaction. This was at first very uncomfortable, because the "oh no i am boring she will leave me" anxiety came up. After a while i just let all movement and speaking happen, with less trying or controlling. This resulted in a great evening, with a lot of intimacy and progress in the relationship.

 

My question: Is this what Daoist call Wu Wei? What is Wu Wei really? 

I imagine myself living in this kind of letting it happen state and it's intriguing. How do i get there? 

 

I'm grateful for every answer.

 

1 hour ago, s1va said:

 

When we are ready, we will invariably find a teacher or a lineage that can help or provide guidance.  It will happen sooner or later, no matter where a person physically is.

 

Very interesting. Is there a way to understand such "synchronicitys" in a conceptual way? For a long time i was very skeptic about everything spiritual, so a  younger part of me screams "bs, the only way to find a teacher is by looking for someone, nothing will happen on it's own." Although i have, to the most part, outgrown this view there are still doubts. 

10 minutes ago, s1va said:

Also, remember this is just a starting practice for beginners.  It is best to do any advanced energy practices with some guidance.  True transformation happens only with guidance from a teacher/divine being.  These type of practices are just to calm the mind in the early stages.

Interesting. But how i find such a teacher/being? I live in a small town, i highly doubt anyone can help me here. (Although i don't know for sure)

On 4.1.2019 at 8:43 PM, s1va said:

 

The following video is the introduction.  There are 3 more parts to this which are also available in YouTube.

 

 

 

I tried this last night and i liked it even more than the one posted before you.

I drifted away after the body scan, but came right back for the breathing technique. At some point i got some sort of unsettling anxiety, especially while the "go deep, deep between the empty space between your breasts. Feel the emptiness." I felt very still, and my mind drifted slowly deeper into the emptiness but then i stopped, i was too scared. 

After the session i contemplated my death, i don't do that often, it just happened. 

 

The relaxation was very intense, but not how i imagined it. When i think of relaxation, i feel warm. The feeling doing the practice was cold, still pleasant but very empty. There was no love, or i didn't recognized it, that scared me i think.

 

My Question is: Can i screw myself up when i go too deep into the emptiness, in to the stillness? I'm scared that after going too deep i'm a psychological wreck, nihilistic and suicidal. Can that happen?

8 hours ago, Everything said:

So if you use your ability to focus on the word "Relaxed" and allow yourself to imagine it in the best possible way you can, and simply do whatever you are inspired the most to do what you have the greatest capability of doing in the moment, you will forever become more and more relaxed in your ever allowing of the more relaxedness that you truely desire.

I am doing something similar: I take my guitar, play 2 chords on and on, and then i am singing stuff like " i am totally relaxed, oh baby yeah" while imagining my absolute over the top relaxation fantasy. I call it music magick, i think it motivated me to write this post.  

23 hours ago, rideforever said:

Relaxation wise I have a bunch of great relaxation CDs, you put them on and go.   Actually I just found that one of the best is now on youtube it's very good, try it maybe you like it 

 

I tried it last night, very relaxing. I'm already familiar with the body scan technique but the guiding was exceptional on this recording. I will use it more than once

 

23 hours ago, s1va said:

The following video is the introduction.  There are 3 more parts to this which are also available in YouTube

 

I tried this on also, sadly in the middle youtube started to play me an loud advertisement with energetic electronic music, i am not skilled enough to stay aware in this situation  will try it this night, downloaded, with out capitalistic interruptions.

 

18 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

Get plenty of sleep!

 

There is a brief period after sleep when the mind wakes up before the body. One literally lies in bed feeling the body asleep - muscles relaxed to the point they feel like sacs of water. It's quite pleasant. With awareness and practice one can learn to expand this period of time, to hold on to it.

Sounds  very intresting, i think i am familiar with the feeling right after waking up. The thing is my alarm goes of and i have to move to put it out, waking up before the alarm, on my own is hard... Is there a work around? 

3 hours ago, s1va said:

The following video is the introduction.  There are 3 more parts to this which are also available in YouTube.

 

will try it out tonight, will report back - thanks 

 

3 hours ago, windwalker said:

Not having access to a group or teacher I would advise looking for what are called passive approaches , as opposed to active ones. 

 

Can you specify what you mean with passive approach? Google can't help me with this one.

5 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Relaxation wise I have a bunch of great relaxation CDs, you put them on and go.   Actually I just found that one of the best is now on youtube it's very good, try it maybe you like it 
 

 

Thanks! Can i listen to it while laying in bed?

 

4 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

The main difference is that taiji is a martial art that embodies many aspects of chi gong but it's not the central point of the practice.

 

Qi gong，

 

the central point of the practice is the practice itself. For most people a practice in the Parks there taiji practice can be classed as a type of Qigong no longer vible as a martial art.

Thank you as well, this clears things up. Can i follow basic youtube videos for qi qong or should i search for a better source?

Feeling safe and protected is the only way, it seems to me, to just be as i am. When i feel safe, i don't have to pretend, protect, act, playing a role. I can allow myself just to exist, without anything in addition to pure existence itself.

Right now i can't allow myself to do that. Because of fear. Fear of pain, failure, humiliation, death.

My wish seems to connected to the longing for protection. When i'm relaxed, i imagine, i am not afraid, i am safe and no one can hurt me because everything will be alright. When i'm not relaxed, everything seems dangerous, everything can give me more stress, can hurt me, can break me.  

Dear Bums,

 

through lucky circumstances i find myself in the possession of a lot of free time for the next half year.

Besides a business project and developing my relationship, i want to work towards a goal that is dear to me: to feel relaxed, very deeply.

A part of me tells me that it is quite selfish to pursue relaxation,  it doesn't help anybody! But the other  parts of me says that people will benefit and be positivly influenced by a calm and relaxed spirit. Also it feels nice! The second voice is louder by far so i make this post.

 

The thing is i am a total noob.

I know a tiny bit about standard meditation and almost nothing about more body oriented practices like hatha, qi qong and tai chi (by the way, whats the difference between tai chi and qi qong?) I don't know if it's even wise to "Pursue" a state of mind and body, i think it's an attachment itself to want relaxation but i don't know how to handle that. 

 

Basically, i am clueless. My Goal is to deeply sink in to my body, like when i was a child and listened to music or relaxed in the sun.  I am 21 year old, and everything feels like a rush. When i read a book i think of the next one to buy while still reading the introduction.  When i walk the dog i hurry. When i eat i devour.  Maybe you can relate?

 

I am lost. Should i ground myself in breathing? Should i "just let go"? Should i do hatha yoga, qi qung, tai chi or another one of the thousand exercises out there? Should i focus on family, on relationships? Read more books? Exercise more? Exercise less? Find the root cause? Stop Overthinking? 

 

Maybe some of you can guide me, or give me subtle pointers to the road i want to travel. I would be thankful for everything.

Cheers

 

PS: I want to go there

I want to start with Hatha Yoga, but i am overwhelmed. I don't know where to start, where to find quality information and what is really needed and what is bs.

My Main Goal is to relax my body to the deepest possible level, is hatha yoga even the right practice for that?

I thought that on this forum there are some people who know this kind of stuff so every help is appreciated. 

And happy new year by the way

@steve

I also had my experience with cannabis, for me it developed very fast to an addiction. One day I decided to throw all weed in to the thrash and that's it. The Problem with weed is that you just get attached so fast.

It's a lot harder to get addicted to psychedelics like shrooms or lsd, although of course possible.

 

From my first Shroom Trip i got the motivation to visit a theraphist, While i was on LSD i found my Life Purpose. So for me it really helped me out. 

 

I hope you pull through, i wish you very well.

 

@steve

Thank you! Believe it or not, your post is very valuable to me.

 

I like your idea that progress should be measured in depth, not in time. I noticed that my meditation became stale and forced, i thought that i just have to meditate longer to fix that but your explanation is so much more fitting and makes more sense to me.

I will stop to force my way to peace with strong determination, i resonated with your post.

 

But i have to disagree with you on the whole "Drugs can't bring you new insights" thing. Maybe the insights are already there, but i wasn't aware of them. The Micro-Dose (and Trips) made me aware of them, "pulled them out of my unconsciousness" i could say. 

But i have to think about it some more. Maybe Drugs are really just for entertainment, but i can't shake the feeling that they are valuable tools if used wisely. I noticed that here on this forum there is a wide range of opinions on that matter. Very interesting, hopefully one day i will know the truth

 

@Otis

I just had to google what local Y meant, but now i know. Seems like a very good reason to me to belong to the local y.

For me the best thing isn't the sauna, but the cooling pool afterwards. The contrast really makes a Difference, maybe you can shower for a while with ice cold water after the sauna. I highly recommend it. 

 

@Miffymog

I definitly can see that this "Experience Chasing" is a dead end in it's own. 

so you're saying that it's more worthwhile to steadily and progressivly heighten your well beeing thourgh body practices? I think that sounds like a more grounded approach than chasing the next mindfuck

Currently i am trying to get into hatha yoga, hopefully this will help me to let go of my experience craving. 

Through random circumstances i ended up in a wellness resort with less than a half tab of 1P-LSD.

The Plan: Combine strong determination sitting with the hot sauna and the ice cold pool afterwards while under the influence of lsd to reach a deep level of relaxation.  

I tried s.d.s. meditation before, so i knew it it could be a pain in the ass if you do it for longer than 1 hour.

What I experienced in the sauna while sitting and focusing entirely on my body was a deep pain. Especially in the Stomach and in the Throat.

After 15 Minutes i felt something like a pulsating cramp inside of my stomach, probably synced  to my heartbeat. My whole body burned and i had thoughts like: 

 

- "this is self harm"

- "this is enough, i reached my goal"

- "this is boring and useless"

- "people going to notice that you are doing weird stuff"

 

I let them pass and stayed in the sauna for another 10 or so Minutes before i had to leave.

Slowly i walked through the garden that connected the sauna with the ice cold pool. The garden had a very Utopian feel it, very peacefull and positive.

When i sunk my body in to the water, time froze. Everything was incredible still. Through the extreme contrast of hot and cold, my body awareness exploded when i entered the water. This lead to the ability to completely and immediately relax my body to a astonishing deep level. At that pointed it seemed to me that my awareness of time was deeply connected to my body awareness/relaxation. Slowly i moved through the water, like a giant on the moon. I practiced the Tadasana Pose  and relaxed even deeper. Every Breath was like a full length movie, really crazy stuff. 

 

I stayed in the Sauna Resort for more than 5 Hours and repeated the process very often. At the end of the day i was very exhausted, but felt very good and deeply relaxed. Sadly this lasted not longer than 2 days but i gained some insights:

 

- sitting for a very long time without moving  while applying awareness to all uprising sensations is very curative and transforming

- microdosing can be fun 

- My sense of time is somehow connected to the state of my body

 

In the future i want to reach these kind of states without drugs and without a sauna. I don't know how, so every help is appreciated. Also i want to slowly upgrade my daily meditation practice to 2 hours strong determination. Currently i am at 30 min. 

 

Do you got any similar experiences to share? What is your opinion on Microdosing, Drugs and Strong Determination Sitting?

Also i am interested in understanding my experiences in a broader spiritual context, what was i really experiencing?  

 

Thanks for reading, i am grateful for every new perspective. 

 

20 hours ago, ilumairen said:

In short, Yonkon, you're ok, and I'm serious about the water. 

 

Welcome to the bums.

 

Thanks, hopefully tea will do the trick 

1 hour ago, Pilgrim said:

You were blocked at the throat chakra. There is a knot there. Everyone has it until the open it a bit.

 

My current body sensations and my own research can confirm this. Since the awakening my throat is swollen and i have constantly the urge to touch my throath like in the pic. also i have problems to express myself verbally. I am a musician so it's a problem when it's coming to singing. Thank your for your insights, very helpful. 

 

 

On 16.10.2018 at 4:20 PM, inthe5am said:

Yonkon, if you give more details of your experience we may be able to help you here.

well.. as already stated above i had my awakening through the influence of weed while meditating. I saw a light and felt energy moving up my spine. I felt better and better, probably the best i ever felt. Than i hit some sort of a bottle neck, the light stopped and i heard voices. The voices became louder, like i big crowd. They where incredible real, and i never experienced something like this before. Anyway the crowd had a very negative vibe. They booed me, and the more interesting part is they called me a faggot. 

So then i had this huge flashback that my father shamed be for being gay at a very young age (i touched the willy from my best friend in kindergarden). This confused my quite a lot. I learned a few things about me  since then: I am bisexual, i am a homophob and i am deeply afraid of being gay. So this is my gay kundalini story, don't know what to do with this.. any help is appreciated 

 

22 hours ago, s1va said:

 

Hi Yonkon,

 

Listening to music attentively or totally absorbed is a powerful spiritual practice in it's own right.  The Vijnana bhairava tantra describes several types of unconventional meditative techniques to make the mind see the reality.  One of them is to listen to music with complete attention.  

 

You say it didn't work so far.  Are you so sure?  Maybe it worked.  Kundalini is nothing to fear as long as it was not triggered by some drug use, or any type of dumb brute force methods.

 

Welcome to the community!  Look forward to hearing more from you in the discussions.

 

Regards,

S1va.

I actually never tried to see listening to music as a meditation, and now i feel dumb. Another reason why i feel dumb (for a long time) is that i triggered my kundalini through dumb brute force drug abuse with smoking weed and meditating (fuck me) I stopped smoking weed and the symptons have lowered since then but god damn i feel stupid for doing this kind of shit back then. Thanks for the support and insights already i am seeing the benefits of this forum. 

Hey Folks, i have to start this topic so i can use the forum so here we go.

My user name is based on my favorite tea. Any tea fans here?

Also i like music. I originally started to meditate to enhance my music listening experience, didn't work so far. But i accidentally activated this kundalini stuff (i believe) so now i try to awaken to the truth so my body can calm the fuck down. Hopefully i can integrate myself into the community  

cheers