Zork

On 5/11/2020 at 11:21 PM, Toni said:

After around two years involved in qigong and other asian systems of training, now I think that many people on this forum should think about being involved in a conceptual and theorical system which is many years old. Concepts like dantians, meridians or qi should be replaced by others which are not in so flagrant contradiction with modern science. It is not that I am scientificist or something, I really like the theoretical contributions of other paradigms, which can be as valid as those of modern science.

 

But the fact is that a concept like dan tian is not empirically observable by a majority of people. This means we need to believe what some "master" or "guru" say. And why should we believe them? I have had many masters and some now I know they were quite ignorant. Maybe I haven't been lucky finding the right ones. But even so, if we want to focus on empiricism, direct experience of things, and logical thinking, then we shouldn't talk about dan tians, meridians or qi. We can use, instead, concepts like blood circulation, nymph, solar plexus, human anatomy, etc.

 

This change of paradigm would not mean that qigong or taichi are not valid practices. A practice is always more important than the theory behind it. And if the practice is good then to admit that the theory behind it is not valid doesn't mean that the practice is less good. In conclusion, I think it is important to change paradigm and start using a more scientific terminology. That way we could improve our practices, our knowledge and we wouldn't take the risk of talking endlessly about things which have never existed just because some masters who are eager to sell themselves say it.

What is the point exactly? There are many systems out there that deal with energy but have radically different concepts of energy, energy centers and energy channels. The most commonly mentioned energy system in this forum is from Daoism but that doesn't mean that other approaches are wrong. Basically if it works for you, then keep practicing. Do you really need to know why and how each and every system works?

3 hours ago, exorcist_1699 said:

 

Different systems get different emphasizes and criteria to  judge their  own effectiveness .  Qi and Jing are mainly for Daoism , not for the Buddhist cultivation  .  Likely the Buddhists , especially  those followers of Zen's , will condemn Taoist  putting emphasize on jing and qi as some kinds of  attachment , barriers  to attaining the Enlightenment. 

 

Light,  its  size and brightness, should be  the main criteria for the Buddhist system as it starts straight from the emptied mind stuff,  with exception if  you follow  the Esoteric or Pure Land school . In fact, asking silly question like "Who am I "  , singing the name of the Buddha and   paying attention to some kind of  glow are all  varied kinds of attachment  that should  be condemned . The best way  is no way ,  the best path is no path , it is  true if  you get the mind to handle that kind of paradox . 

I will second that. I recently became aware of a school that the teacher and some students display electrokinesis but have no concept of the LDT. Apparently it is either not needed to faqi or they somehow develop it without emphasizing it.

6 minutes ago, dwai said:

Come meet me and I'll show you the proof  

What else do you want to see? Videos? I've posted a few in my PPF. Can you tell the difference between real "qi power" and "physical"?

Do you think you'll know the real thing if you saw it? 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hic_Rhodus,_hic_salta

Just now, dwai said:

Come meet me and I'll show you the proof  

What else do you want to see? Videos? I've posted a few in my PPF. Can you tell the difference between real "qi power" and "physical"?

Do you think you'll know the real thing if you saw it? 

You can't tell the difference between fa jin and fa qi.

I am 100% sure that you are misguided and have no idea what you are talking about.

3 hours ago, dwai said:

Why is it extraordinary?  

It only seems extraordinary because you think it is something elusive and secret. 

For me it’s not hearsay at all, just first hand knowledge...Direct experience. 

Nope. Extraordinary because it is a claim that you have seen something very uncommon which by definition is extraordinary.

Now where is the proof?

13 hours ago, dwai said:

Don’t know about cloudhands, but I know many. And they aren’t walking-talking bug zappers either

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

What is yours? Hearsay? Seriously?

You mention something that can't be backed up. Why mention it on the first place?

1 minute ago, ralis said:

 

 

Exactly! Here in the U.S. with Trump's bungling of the crisis, only around 1 million have been tested. Remember when he said back in March that anyone that wanted a test could get one? Now he says that we really don't need tests and the virus will just go away without a vaccine.

You need from 3 to 15 million samples just to measure the extent of the spread of the virus or to assess how many different strains are there. 1 in 300 isn't even close to make guesses or even decide whether to restart the economy or not. With more tests at least you would be able to make an educated guess to the situation. Trump is deciding the fate of the US at random.

22 hours ago, Toni said:

I was wrong then. I just did it one month or one month and a half, while i did fragrant, which is much better, for 7 months. 

Different people react differently, to different systems.

Keep what works for you.

7 hours ago, CloudHands said:

 

Hi !

So you know people emitting qi like electricity ?!

Can you please explain the contradiction you're talking about, that's -for me- the interesting point in your post.

The contradiction is that the LDT is represented in a simple way in books while they have no idea how to activate it and have no method described within them. His point is that if it were so simple, most dedicated practitioners would have it activated. How many people with an activated LDT do you know?

On 5/5/2020 at 2:40 AM, ralis said:

It amazes me that some of you come on here and don’t understand factual evidence. As of today India has 46,437 cases with 1566 deaths. Which is around 3.4 %  and is well within the margin of error for mortality as predicted.  However, the death and infection rate may be much higher in the overcrowded large cities where very little medical care exists. 

Even worse there is no way of knowing how many cases go unnoticed because most won't take tests!

On 5/8/2020 at 7:00 PM, Toni said:

https://medium.com/@ra.hobday/coronavirus-and-the-sun-a-lesson-from-the-1918-influenza-pandemic-509151dc8065

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4504358/

 

Abstract

The H1N1 “Spanish flu” outbreak of 1918–1919 was the most devastating pandemic on record, killing between 50 million and 100 million people. Should the next influenza pandemic prove equally virulent, there could be more than 300 million deaths globally. The conventional view is that little could have been done to prevent the H1N1 virus from spreading or to treat those infected; however, there is evidence to the contrary. Records from an “open-air” hospital in Boston, Massachusetts, suggest that some patients and staff were spared the worst of the outbreak. A combination of fresh air, sunlight, scrupulous standards of hygiene, and reusable face masks appears to have substantially reduced deaths among some patients and infections among medical staff. We argue that temporary hospitals should be a priority in emergency planning. Equally, other measures adopted during the 1918 pandemic merit more attention than they currently receive.

How do you explain the cases in Iran then? One of the hottest places on Earth

1 hour ago, Lightseeker said:

Hey just wondering. Did you enter the state that Carl Jung outlines in the Red Book

I am not aware of what you are talking about. What are the chances of a newb arriving there with the first attempt? Probably not much and i don't think i got there anyway.

I remember that the very first dream i saw, was me standing on the base of something like a temple complex with stairs that went as high as the eye could see. Next i saw white wisps leaving trails.... I don't remember the rest but the problem is that it very hard to be half asleep and try to concentrate on chakras, let alone count breaths....

Don't bother with it unless you got a guide over you.

11 hours ago, steve said:

Another option is to study from a book. Not as effective for me but it can work if you’re dedicated and patient. There are many good books on the subject. This is one written by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche -

https://ligmincha.org/product/the-tibetan-yogas-of-dream-and-sleep/

Oh my what a weird synchronicity.....  I have been reading the book during the past week. I used the techniques two nights ago. There is no way in hell that i would suggest these practices to a newbie. Overall it was a very weird experience from the get go. I did not continue practicing next night. This stuff needs teaching one on one. It seems to be a very good resource for other things though, like the nature of dreams and how they tie in with buddhism or Bon etc.

Toni there are many things wrong with his train of thought.

First of all, he is making comparisons between different things. He is taking into account the deaths caused by flu throughout the season while his Covid19 statistics are relevant up to March. Plus some measures were taken for Covid even in Sweden while flu had no measures taken at all. He doesn't take all these into account.

Second, he is comparing Norway to Sweden. Try comparing Sweden to Greece (similar population) and see what happens.....

Why doesn't he compare Greece and Italy which in some places, have comparable genetics? He picked an example that shows his point while excluding the one that makes his points completely moot.

Third, it is too early to tell whether the measures were needed or not. The virus is still ongoing and the epidemic hasn't stopped to take everything into account. He also ignores the chance that the virus mutates into a more virulent form.

Fourth, he says that 90%+ of people recover. Sure but they all needed available ICUs which are not a given during a full fledged epidemic. Italy has this problem in prominence. There were no available ICUs at some point so the death toll was significantly larger than it should be.

Are some measures too strict? Sure but this doesn't make the pandemic a hoax!

1 hour ago, freeform said:

I might be misunderstanding the question here. There's LOADS of things called YJJ

I mean that YJJ might be a part of something not known by that name. Like say a version of the 8 piece brocades or the 18 lohan.

The basic stances of YJJ are recorded (supposedly) but the transitions or possible movements aren't. So in theory the stances that people use on what they call YJJ is correct but nothing more than that.

2 hours ago, ralis said:

I think this article in Salon is worth considering. 
 

 

https://www.salon.com/2020/04/26/the-black-death-led-to-the-demise-of-feudalism-could-this-pandemic-have-a-similar-effect/?fbclid=IwAR2J8Tc4ngqjaQcAU5VQvggRjplPvjJP_gzgSPuEgpciDt52AQUMWuCTThg

There is a certain  degree of exaggeration in the article. We won't see that much of a change regarding the financial system. We could be looking at the end of globalism though. The critical question is if and when the economy in the west rebounds or we will face a recession of unprecedented proportions. I personally don't believe that the Euro will see the end of 2021.

On 4/19/2020 at 9:23 PM, freeform said:

An exceptionally clear talk about YJJ

 

 

What he says is that most YJJ that is taught today isn't YJJ.

Are you referring to practices that change the muscles/tendons that are incorporated in some systems but are not part of the set of 12 exercises which is presented today as "moving YJJ"?

That would make all YJJ videos worthless except as stretching exercises.

On 2/29/2020 at 1:07 AM, freeform said:

YJJ builds this fascial network and makes it stronger, more connected, more robust. It also works to open the channels (sinew channels) and generates a lot of Qi. Although the Qi generation part of it is usually kept secret.

Any correctly practiced YJJ or a specific form of YJJ by daoist circles?

20 hours ago, moreira Filho said:

I had the info about Minimum of 3 months. By the way it is the sme time that some use to "lay the fondation". But the founder is already dead and can not give more info about this time requeriment.

 

The minimum time varies. It might even take a year. 3 months are ok only if there is no illness that needs to be cured. I assume that you are using the pdf. In that case, remember that it says to seek a teacher for level 2. Level 2 videos on the internet are wrong and there is no guidance on some cases which can cause deviations with fragrant.

7 hours ago, waterdrop said:

Such a shame to read you can incorporate this with other practices  - seems like such a nice simple exercise to do   -     did i get it right that  all you do in the first level is just this simple movements and thats it no need for visualization  or focus etc ?

Visualizations cause problems with the system. Meditation too and also irregular or contrived breathing.

12 hours ago, salaam123 said:

I quit all chi related things for more than two years about ten years ago, when I lost hope for recovery. Still, nothing improved and I had mild depression, and lost hope towards the future, although eventually a couple of beers consumed daily improved my mood.

This looks like a qi deviation or a side-effect of experimentation.

Be careful with these things.

13 hours ago, chino said:

I am interested in the path of self mastery/The Great Work/kung fu.

This is far too broad and abstract. What are your immediate goals? Do you want to be a better fighter? A healer? Do you want enlightenment?

If it is power that you seek, i won't dissuade you but be careful.

4 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

Karate is 空手道 means "empty hand"

As i said you are clueless!

the pictograms changed. They used to mean chinese hand but the Japanese changed that to "empty hand".....

"Karate was originally written as "Chinese hand" (唐手 literally "Tang dynasty hand") in kanji. It was changed to a homophone meaning empty hand (空手) in 1935. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karate

6 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

Let's not talk about apples and oranges. Our mindset are too far apart. My friend!

So martial qigong isn't qigong? Is that what you are telling us?

Karate meant "chinese hand" by the way. It is a derivative of chinese quan fa mixed with native Okinawan techniques.....

Keep proving how clueless you are!

1 minute ago, ReturnDragon said:

Since when we are talking about karate, here, I thought we are talking about qigong?

So there are no martial qigong forms that have been passed on to other systems i assume???

25 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

 Zork, I am not surprised that you are confused at all.

I am not the one who is confused.

You are alluding to systems that have breathing to protect from blows like Goju ryu karate do. They do not use reverse breathing. Plus they are damaging to the lungs!

Have you ever tried taking a blow using reverse breathing? It is both unnatural and dangerous.

The systems that Earl Grey is talking about are different. There are hints of how they work in Lam Kam Chuen's books but i don't think that LKC has mastered the techniques.