I plucked every orifice possible and no matter which way they come back. I followed around the garden and nothing around the house so they are under the house somewhere. They send scouts to check in and if they find one tiny thing they send platoons and now everything is sealed or in the fridge or in the freezer. Pest control is my last resort but I am trying not to so I can understand their beliefs in not killing.

38 minutes ago, EmeraldHead said:

The way I understand the role of morals is to become rooted in the all compassionate cosmic mind. ~sambogakaya type stuff in traditional buddhism.

 

Because the body and the totally postnatal/earthly part of mind is a robot. It's conduct is just action, cannot really have purpose. The doer beyond the body is to be ... cultivated / taught.

Both Daoist and Buddhism precepts is NOT to kill. So what do I do with those insects? If I don't get rid of them, they will come at you especially during summer. I know at some point when we leave this world, the corpse will be eaten by insects as the natural cycle.

I was wondering about the term return either fan, gui or fu as in DDJ 18 Return is the movement of the Dao among other chapters in which this term is used and certainly in the Yijing too. Talking with someone who has tried mushrooms as Magic mushrooms  that are wild or cultivated mushrooms that contain psilocybin, a naturally-occurring psychoactive and hallucinogenic compound. Where Psilocybin is considered one of the most well-known psychedelics, according to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administrations, mentioned me the point where you feel the return to yourself and being in contact with your inner self. I made me think about if this term is close to this kind of experience which probably shamans had lived testing different types of mushrooms. Any thoughts or clarification?

I didn't know where to post this one. I find the question may relate to Daoists or Buddhist beliefs about respecting life or not to kill. Recently, I was invaded by ants, even if there was no food around but the little they found, they will invade by hundreds that looks by thousands. Then after cleaning the house and kitchen, I decided to take a rest in the evening and little by little I found out I was attacked by mosquitoes. Then I bought a repellent plant that helped a little and dressed well to protect myself, and no, they will attack no matter what. So the question comes about, should I kill them or what should I do? Ants, don't give up so the only way I see is to kill them and stop their invasion. The mosquitoes, no matter what they will attack so I decided to avoid going out until it becomes cooler so they won't come at me. Since those religions preach not to kill, what do you do even if you try to persuade ants and mosquitoes or find other alternative and none of them works?

On 7/30/2020 at 1:20 PM, silent thunder said:

 

Zhuang Zi's use of humor, hyperbole, satire and sardonic, biting wit based on his incredible insights are unparalleled examples to me of extreme high skill in observation.

 

I'll echo @morning dew in that ZZ seems like a social commentarian and comedian of his day, using humor to exemplify the oddities of society living. 

 

When I started reading Zhuang Zi, particularly his repeated and unrelenting commentary on Confucianism ways and their myriad inconsistencies; I was reminded of the long form social commentary of the late, George Carlin.  George had a piercing eye for revealing the humorous inconsistencies in modern life.

It seems to me that your comments are based on an English translation and I am not sure if those readings are according to the Chinese world or the way is understood by the Chinese mind. Indeed, the humorist side of ZZ is universal but how it is interpreted in the Chinese mind. Just a remark to understand better what an English reader understands reading ZZ

On 7/29/2020 at 11:37 AM, Wayist said:

Yes I too, have this reaction of the DDJ being "a therapy book".  You need to get Centered, or you've had a tough day, read the DDJ or TTC, and get to where you need to be. Yes for sure, I've experienced this!  Peace, Wayist

And how that happens to get to where you need to be? Could you elaborate more or give examples? Is it the translation in English that gives you the answer or is it the commentary that is in accord to your own situation or is it your own imagination? I have always wondered about the fascination many people talk reading the DDJ, the esoteric meaning and the extrapolation or paraphrase they can tell on one or another chapter. Is this what the therapy book you are referring to?

I took the liberty to copy and paste this news:

Bradford Hatcher

I learned this morning that Bradford Hatcher has died. The Yijing world has lost a treasure, and many of us have lost a good friend.

Brad was ridiculously generous with his knowledge. His epic, two-volume Yijing is available from his site, for free. (He’s made arrangements to ensure it’ll stay that way.) It’s a superb work – including a character-by-character translation to let non-Chinese scholars get a glimpse of the original, a poetic translation, an ‘introduction’ with more meat in it than most books, and unique, original commentary. That commentary comes with an acute awareness of Yi’s internal relationships (he coined the term fan yao) and, especially, of its native humour. It’s an extraordinary gift to us all.

When visiting hermetica.info for the Yijing book, pause and look around to appreciate the breadth of its author’s intelligence, which was intimidating, and his experience, which meant he was one of the few Yijing scholars who could write his commentaries about wells, cows and goats on the basis of personal knowledge of wells, cows and goats.

On a personal level, I know Brad was also generous with his time. A regular at Clarity’s I Ching Community for many years, he also helped me a great deal with my book in 2010, both with practical feedback on translation, commentary and nuance (as I emailed him each hexagram in turn), and with steady encouragement.

We met once, thanks to LiSe, a few years ago in the Netherlands, where I discovered that he also gave very good hugs.

When I heard this morning that he’d died, I looked at the books closest to me on my desk as I work:

Just found his YiJing translation and wonder how his translation is different from other as Al Huang or other classic translations?

And what's the conclusion or answer to your original question? It seems that all the three are interrelated both in vocabulary and concepts and had been blended with other Chinese Buddhism.

Does the term taiji come from Zhuxi? Isn't that concept form Neo-Confucian metaphysics that introduced the idea of a
prime mover or "supreme ultimate" (tai-ji), which not only generated the cosmic forces of yin and yang but also served as the source (and sum) of the ideal forms or "principles" (li) around which material force (qi) coalesced to form all things. But by Ch'ing times and even earlier, interest in the notion of t 'ai-chi had waned considerably. Wing-Tsit Chan indicates, for example, that even among the followers of Chu Hsi, who made the "supreme ultimate" a central feature of his elaborate metaphysical system, many downplayed the subject or virtually ignored it. "The difference between the early Ming and Ch'ing Neo-Confucianists," writes Chan, "is that the earlier philosophers turned away from the Great Ultimate (t'ai-chi) to internal cultivation, whereas the Ch'ing Neo-Confucianists turned away
from the Great Ultimate to everyday affairs."

Any opinions about this translation? Personally, I find it a little far from the original and the more I read other translations with explanations, the better I understand.

As I am learning how to read this short, I see that  there is a combination of Daoist and Buddhist ideas. Many phrases, concepts and words can be found in several chapters of the DDJ and some are Buddhist interpretations (which movement or faith, I don't know) which can be very confusing for someone who's a newbie either Daoism or Buddhism ( among the ten schools in China). For those who have already read it or learned it, how important is the reading of this small canon and how do you interpret it or use it in practical life?

When I look up at the text I find 清靜經;  Qīngjìng Jīng and found then this in Wikipedia: qingjing could interchangeably be written 清靜 or 清淨, for instance, the Daoist concept qingjing wuwei 清靜無為 or 清凈無為 "quiet and non-action; discard all desires and worries from one's mind". Chinese Buddhism used qingjing 清淨 to translate Sanskrit parishuddhi or Pali vishuddhi "complete purification; free from defilement" (cf. vishudda). So it seems there is confusion or misinterpretation regarding the word 淨 and 靜 which for some is purity and others is clarity. Or is there a better interpretation?

4 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Even for a native Chinese speaker and reader...  Classical Chinese is not modern Chinese and poses challenges to comprehension.

 

Had a conversation about this not long ago with a friend who studies and is trying to translate ancient Chinese; the distinctive differences between Classical Chinese and Modern is similar to the differences between our Modern English and Old English... Pick up an Old English story and give it a whirl sometime if interested.  I find it fascinating how language evolves. 

 

I studied Old English while training as a classical actor and was deeply interested in Etymology.

 

It is significantly different, in both nomenclature/verbage and especially in the cultural tonations and the unspoken implications and meanings of phrases that to folks of that day, were obvious and clear, but to our modern sensibilites, are quite alien and cryptic.

 

And yet... human experience is universal.  Smiles, laughter, tears need no translations.

We all share that core of being human and thus, some aspects, no matter how long separated by time, or language resonate as clearly as a bell.

 

We all share the same human tones and their ancient songs (and experiential truths) resonate now... (as I've experienced it).

It seems to be the human experience is different from place to place and cultures mold differently across the globe. I tend to think that classical Chinese by itself is not easy to understand or decipher, what all those texts rely on are the commentaries and the way they were understood. Popular culture or religions give better account on how those texts are understood, instead of trying to understand or translate word by word. As in modern Chinese mandarin most if of it is contextual. Aside the human experience there is more in the text that is recounted and explained in their modern language and tradition continues. If I rely on a translation word by word or a translation without the guidance of a master in understanding the text, the level of comprehension is null and all we have is imagery or new age verbiage.

5 hours ago, steve said:

 

 

When we know, we know.

Words don't get in the way.

When there is uncertainty or doubt, words can be as much an obstacle as a guide. 

Again, how ZZ readings are understood? Is it  the way you read the English translation of ZZ or the way is explained by the native speakers in Mandarin Chinese?

On 6/13/2020 at 11:41 AM, silent thunder said:

The relation to and experience of my awareness to my life process is unfolding into allegory and metaphor.

 

All literalism falls away like petals from a spent flower.  effortless.  natural.

 

My Raw Beingness unfolds as it is and in this... some of Chuang Tzu's writings catapult off the page with resonant meaning while others just lie flat and unresponsive.  I liken this to tuning forks in music and sympathetic vibration of similarly tuned instruments.

 

As pretty and eloquent you write it shows, I still wonder why it does resonate and if the way you interpret it is the same ways is taught and understood by the native Chinese speaker?

Is there a reason why this text is not mentioned in the forum, or maybe I haven't found postings about the 清靜經: Qīngjìng Jīng yet? It seems that there are many English translations out there and this text is quite common reading or reciting text for religious movements. Any ideas why is it important aside clarity and purity and observation practice?

I finally got to read some stories from ZZ, first from Derek Lin, then Watson. After reading Watson, I really just read as stories and nothing else. Nothing else, nothing more without noticing a message or lesson. My question is how you as an educated reader how did you interpret the content of ZZ parables or short stories? It is until I read Derek's translations that it hit me immediately why those stories had  a meaning and how is interpreted by the Chinese. Any thoughts or advice? Thanks.

3 hours ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

For good or ill, I really can't let go of things until I have either found the answer or proved to myself that it can't be found.  I looked at Master Ni's text and decided that it was too wordy to be the direct source of the quote and remembering that Brian Walker's text was characterized as sparse and poetic more like Laozi's writing, so I decided to look at it and here is the result:
 

 

Walker credits Master Ni as his teacher who introduced him to the Huahujing and and it is easy to see how this is a simplification of Master Ni's text.

 

Also this seems to be based on ideas in the text of Daodejing Chapter 66:

 

 

Thus "rectifying oneself" by becoming like the "sea" allows one to receive "tribute" from all directions without effort.

 

Now I can let go of this.

 

ZYD

Thanks so much. I still haven't found the original text in chinese from that quote. Couldn't find it in the internet. Any idea where to find it?

Thank you and certainly your help is much appreciated. Just checked and found this from Hua hu Ching, Chapter 45

1 hour ago, EmeraldHead said:

I cannot authenticate it but I would say it is true. It refers to your real, rootless, mind.

 

The quote says Laozi, where can I find this quote in the original Chinese?

I diligently searched for this quote I found in the internet:

Is it a real quote or is it a misquote, if it is real, where that quote came from or where one can find it in the DDJ?

What's the difference of this commentary from Wang Bi commentary on the DDJ? and what about

HO-SHANG-KUng commENTARY
ON
LAO -TSE
TRANSLATED AND ANNOTATED
BY
EDUARD ERKES

What's the difference between the one from wangbi and he shangge?

I was wondering how many terms or definitions in the DDJ are related to the Yijing. I was thinking about the term: returning  as it is found in the hexagram FU: returning

Which jing are we talking about? Is it fājìn, 發勁), sometimes misspelled as fajing or the concept of jīng (精), which literally means "essence."??