MIchael80

You will not find a real answer to your problem because it is the thinking mind wanting to get rid of your fear. Integrate the fear by fully feeling it and the whole mental story will collapse.

Fear is not a good teacher.

best!

Hi Liminal luke!

In his Q&A's (not online anymore) Michael Brown advised that if no bathtube is available to use a shower (maybe that is even in the book) and shower over your chest area. But bathtube is more powerful, but for the beginning it should work with the shower pretty well.

best

I have been a great fan of Michael Browns work (the presence process and his follow ups) because it mirrored so much of what i have been taught from within when my kundalini awakened.

I have suggested it here on the forum  several times as for me it is the work to mature us as humans and i think we need maturity in this world.

It is clear from amazon comments and personal experience with others that one really needs to be ready for this work because we do everything we can to avoid our "inner hell".

I would also say it is very important to follow the process exactly like Michael Brown says and also very important is that the activation statement (the statement we make prior to the process) consists a lot of the word "gentle" :-)

the only thing i do not like with his work is he is too anti-mental. I can understand why (because it is important to get out of the story) but for me he has taken that a bit too far. that is why i suggest to also explore Scott Kilobys work also (same work but from  an different angle and more gentle)

Hi Spotless!

the road to hell is paved with good intentions......phui i am glad mine were "best"

Yes, my writting definitly has not the quality of yours.

I was not talkling about an "i" clinging. these clinging is a subtle contraction and slows or stops growth in consciousness. It comes because "it" is so absolute and "full stoping" and the seeker being gone that there comes a "this is it". And the conctraction comes in.

This phenomena is very common amongst awake people and has even been researched by Jeffrey Martin. Also in Indian texts it is stated that one has to "desire" more for evolution in consciousness to happen. Most awake people stay in their awakeness (they may deepen but stay in the same field) and consider their awakness to be the highest (according to Dr. Martin). A lot of neo-advaita teachers even ridicule further evolution in consciousness yet into the unfolding beyond consciousness.

that is what i meant.

Here a good article about clearing post awakening (not in detail but more the overall process) from an very awake friend: http://davidya.ca/2017/04/04/drive-into-flow/

best

michael

Hi!

I usually logged in with my facebook account. And for a few days now that is not possible. there comes a page with "you are not allowed to log in".

My facebook account has no problems.

Any ideas?

best

michael

It's good to see this issue being tackled directly by Scott Kiloby, it looks like he's doing some good work around it.

 

Still it seems harder to do it this way around - 'awaken' and remove self-will (as in the emailed question here http://kiloby.com/the-essence-of-embodiment/ )and then have to work on the 'embodied' problems while feeling lethargic about it, instead of working on the embodied issues first while the will remains strong, and once they are resolved then 'awakening'.

 

This to me is a very good reason to start work on the LDT first, not last.

Hi Bindi!

Yes, Scott does a wonderful work!

Self will is gone for a while in ones perception, but if there is openness a curiousity is there and this work will continue. After awakening there is this okness as spotless called it but the curiousity will come back if one does not cling to "being done".

almaas with his daimond approach talks a lot about this and calls it endless enlightenment.

there are phases where it feels like one is never going to to do any inner work again, but then it comes back. :-)

A lot of the lack of will to do inner work after awakening does not come from the fact that self will is gone (it actually re-emerges in an integrated way) but just comes from resistance to what is in this body mind vehicle. (just like before awakening)

Scott told me that he has met awakened people who bypassed their emotions with the thought "i accept everything as it is".

but as you said, it is good to start with this work as soon as possible, because the rewards are endlessly enriching. I suggest sort of a combination of Scott Kilobys approach and that of Michael Brown (the presence process) with a little of Almaas diamond approach inquiry for a start and over time it developes by itself for oneself in the best way possible.

All the best

Michael

Hi dwai!

Yes old patterns arise, because the shift to awakening only kills some karma/conditioning.

the clearing works just before: become aware of the thought story, allow it but do not follow it....then of the emotion underneath it. Allow that emotion, embrasse it, feel it, be with it unconditionally.....it will be digested in its own time. (do not act upon the emotion)

Allow all thoughts and pictures to arise but the emotion is the most crucial part.

Dont worry if the focus narrows down a bit, allow that also, it will help you not getting attached to the awakeness.(which would block further unfolding in consciouness itself).

Sometimes you will have to inquire gently (sometimes just with intent and other times with a mental question) to uncover all the drivers.

Being in the awake state makes it possible to clear it all and very deeply....that will transform more than the awakening itself.

This process is often called embodiment by modern teachers.

Scott KIloby talks a lot about the stuff that comes up after awakening. for a first look here some articles: http://kiloby.com/category/writings/

hope that helps

all the best

MIchael

Do not follow the thoughts when triggered, become Aware of them and then become aware of the Emotion underneath it.

welcome the Emotion...., feel it, .....be with it unconditionally, .....allow it fully.....without acting on it or thinking about it (if there are thoughts about it do not follow them)

the Emotion will be digested in its own time.

When the Emotion is gone so will be thougths (the Emotion drives the thougts).

In case of Trauma, very carefully undo one inner Picture and the underlying Emotion at a time. Do not start with traumas

Look into Michael Browns "the presence process" and into Scott Kilobys "the living inquiries".

best

MIchael

I like the definitions that awakening is used to describe the Initial identity shift....waking up from being a Person to the source of all.

this awakening can be abiding or non abiding.

If it is abiding and there is openness than further shifts happen and deep Clearing/de-conditioning and transformations happen. first within consciouness (pure being) and then beyond it.

Enlightenment would be (for me) a very far away Point where one has gone through several indentiy shifts and deep embodiment of them.

The Thing to understand about awake or enlightened states is that they are not fixed but can be fixed by the Person (or in traditions where one aspect of the enlightened state is "the Goal") and then Evolution stops.

These states evolve further and further if one does not come under the Impression that "one is done" (which feels like one is done, there is no further at certain stages.....but when one does not cling to that Notion it goes on).

There is huge Evolution in consciousness and later even beyond consciousness.

It also has to do with how much Clearing one allows how everything is perceived (World as ilusion or world as divine Play or world as self).

Awakening does not mature the personality. It has a certain maturing effect but the real maturation Comes from fully Feelings ones dark side/suppressed stuff (there is a LOT!! of it). So you have indivduals who do experience an enligtened state and tell the audience about how there is no Problem and then run to an psychologist because they have Problems with their wife or daughter.

A lot of These awake individuals are pretty closed minded in that the see only value in how it has happened for them and other experiences are often discarded.

One of the best texts about Evolution beyond the first awakeing is the following: davidya.ca/2014/01/25/stages-of-development-in-consciousness

hope this is useful

best

Michael

Hi Zhongyongdaois!

Thanks for your reply!!

Again i do not know what he teaches in person i only desribed what is written in the nei gong book and there is in the neidan chapters only visualisations. If he does not share the "real stuff" ok but i talked about the book and this is what i also wrote to qicat.

I also did not compare (lump him) him with Chia......just stated that they all use visualisations.....never talked about effectivness of practice, "realness" of it etc.  It was just a tool describtion (that they use visualisation and declare it neidan).

I do not know his lineage qicat.

I have talked about his neigong book and there he has chapters about neidan and it is all with visualisations.

Hi Qicat!

i do not know what you want to say or where you want to help. 

I wrote:

"there are many visualisation techniques in daoism." (so yes there are many Meditation techniques in daoism.....and they use visualisation).

however neidan is a very specific System that does not use post-heaven work. (visualisations) 

best

Michael

Hi Jox!

I do not know tibetan yoga.

It is not that visualisations should not be used.......it is just that neidan does not use visualisations.

there are many visualisations techniques in daoism.

But to visualise something is to use the post heaven mind and neidan only works with the pre heaven stuff.

best

Michael

Hi Dawei!

I have the book.

Yes you summed it up well!

I meant that it is not neidan because he uses post-heaven work (visualizing) and that uses the post-heaven mind.

And neidan uses pre-heaven stuff which cannot be visulized. All the teachers i know said that is the fundamental neidan principle. the only sources (i know) who claim teaching neidan and do use visualization are johnson and chia/winn.

best

Michael

No neidan in his Neigong book.(though there is a chapter on neidan)

All visualize this, visualize that etc.

And in neidan he clearly lacks knowledge and expierence.

the book is interesting for qi gong and nei gong though and Shows some advanced stuff in this field.

Hi Dawei!

I felt a strong Transmission when reading the "awakening to Reality" verses translated by Fabrizio Pregadio. I could feel it only when reading the verses not when reading the commentary.......and it was really powerful.

best

mIchael

Yes dust.....that was what i had meant!

Thanks for correcting!

Hi Spotless!

I am not a christian but....

This is just not true that there are no historical mentions of Jesus.

We have a lot of apokryph texts that hold views outside of the standard gospels that speak of Jesus and he was mentioned in historical writings (Pontius Pilate annals; Antiquities of the jews).

Hi Idquest!

thanks for sharing!

Hope to hear more from you as you advance in your training.

In the other Damo thread i wrote that i liked his "white moon..." very much but wondered where all the replenishing is going on.

so hope to hear more from you in the future (if you into neidan at all?)

all the best

michael

:)Very well spoken Spotless!!

Hi Dawei!

since this is a forum i would need to use words to desribe experience......this forum will not work with silent transmission.

there is also nothing bad with mind and words.....only when we are still bound to them, after unbounding they are just tools for certain things......like using words to describe something

From my understanding spotless has put it best.

Karma is our thinking and feeling patterns we are attached to. The reactions we have when we are triggered, our experience of our sense of self; the blockages in our bodies......and on a very deep level even our bodies.

I would not talk about transforming it; it is stuck energy....it needs to be released.

Our world constantly reflects back our karma and we are stuck in the cycle of samsara because we want to change outside events....but they are just an expression of our unconcious held karmic loads. If we look what the outer events cause within us (the thoughts and escpecially the emotions) then they can be released and this errodes our sense of self until that which always was is revelead.

and the nice thing is that outer events very often then change without doing anything other than releasing the loads we carry....and diseases heal also with this.

To really release the deep stuff we need to be able to fully feel it while it passes. Fully feeling is something that even people who are in an awake state want to bypass. So this is simply yet not easy.

So our whole day can a means to release ever deeper patterns of karmic imprinting.

the best way to learn this in my opinion is Michael Browns "the presence process" (teaches this outer reflection cycle) and Scott Kilobys work.

I also liked white moon on the mountain peak.

I just wondered that there is not replenishing of the 3  pre- heaven treasures in it, he seems to get them just out of the wuji (the 3 alchemical agents), but no replenishing going on. He just redirects the postheaven jing to flow upwards instead of downwards. which is a good thing but where is the pre-heaven replenishing?

Dear DSCB57,

a technique cannot awaken you. It can Support the process but the actual awakening is not in the Hands of the individual....awakening is like a remembrance.

Awakening is waking up from being the Person you thought you were......so that Person cannot directly cause the awakening.

Purifaction helps but at a certain Point one has to ask "who is doing These techniques"?

Which brings one the the part of the process of the falling away of big chunks of the "I" (as spotless has put so well into words.)

the real cultivation starts when much of the I has been surrendered/cleared.

Awakening of the physical Body or physical Body enlightenment or in the Yoga sutras called perfection of the Body Comes after the Initial awakening. this process goes on by itself when one in the awakened state does not cling to the Notion of "being done". However this process is slow and can be accelarated by techniques (and because we do not live very Long in this Age in its natural unfolding will not come to its frution).

best

Michael