MIchael80

I like the definitions that awakening is used to describe the Initial identity shift....waking up from being a Person to the source of all.

this awakening can be abiding or non abiding.

If it is abiding and there is openness than further shifts happen and deep Clearing/de-conditioning and transformations happen. first within consciouness (pure being) and then beyond it.

Enlightenment would be (for me) a very far away Point where one has gone through several indentiy shifts and deep embodiment of them.

The Thing to understand about awake or enlightened states is that they are not fixed but can be fixed by the Person (or in traditions where one aspect of the enlightened state is "the Goal") and then Evolution stops.

These states evolve further and further if one does not come under the Impression that "one is done" (which feels like one is done, there is no further at certain stages.....but when one does not cling to that Notion it goes on).

There is huge Evolution in consciousness and later even beyond consciousness.

It also has to do with how much Clearing one allows how everything is perceived (World as ilusion or world as divine Play or world as self).

Awakening does not mature the personality. It has a certain maturing effect but the real maturation Comes from fully Feelings ones dark side/suppressed stuff (there is a LOT!! of it). So you have indivduals who do experience an enligtened state and tell the audience about how there is no Problem and then run to an psychologist because they have Problems with their wife or daughter.

A lot of These awake individuals are pretty closed minded in that the see only value in how it has happened for them and other experiences are often discarded.

One of the best texts about Evolution beyond the first awakeing is the following: davidya.ca/2014/01/25/stages-of-development-in-consciousness

hope this is useful

best

Michael

Hi Zhongyongdaois!

Thanks for your reply!!

Again i do not know what he teaches in person i only desribed what is written in the nei gong book and there is in the neidan chapters only visualisations. If he does not share the "real stuff" ok but i talked about the book and this is what i also wrote to qicat.

I also did not compare (lump him) him with Chia......just stated that they all use visualisations.....never talked about effectivness of practice, "realness" of it etc.  It was just a tool describtion (that they use visualisation and declare it neidan).

I do not know his lineage qicat.

I have talked about his neigong book and there he has chapters about neidan and it is all with visualisations.

Hi Qicat!

i do not know what you want to say or where you want to help. 

I wrote:

"there are many visualisation techniques in daoism." (so yes there are many Meditation techniques in daoism.....and they use visualisation).

however neidan is a very specific System that does not use post-heaven work. (visualisations) 

best

Michael

Hi Jox!

I do not know tibetan yoga.

It is not that visualisations should not be used.......it is just that neidan does not use visualisations.

there are many visualisations techniques in daoism.

But to visualise something is to use the post heaven mind and neidan only works with the pre heaven stuff.

best

Michael

Hi Dawei!

I have the book.

Yes you summed it up well!

I meant that it is not neidan because he uses post-heaven work (visualizing) and that uses the post-heaven mind.

And neidan uses pre-heaven stuff which cannot be visulized. All the teachers i know said that is the fundamental neidan principle. the only sources (i know) who claim teaching neidan and do use visualization are johnson and chia/winn.

best

Michael

No neidan in his Neigong book.(though there is a chapter on neidan)

All visualize this, visualize that etc.

And in neidan he clearly lacks knowledge and expierence.

the book is interesting for qi gong and nei gong though and Shows some advanced stuff in this field.

Hi Dawei!

I felt a strong Transmission when reading the "awakening to Reality" verses translated by Fabrizio Pregadio. I could feel it only when reading the verses not when reading the commentary.......and it was really powerful.

best

mIchael

Yes dust.....that was what i had meant!

Thanks for correcting!

Hi Spotless!

I am not a christian but....

This is just not true that there are no historical mentions of Jesus.

We have a lot of apokryph texts that hold views outside of the standard gospels that speak of Jesus and he was mentioned in historical writings (Pontius Pilate annals; Antiquities of the jews).

Hi Idquest!

thanks for sharing!

Hope to hear more from you as you advance in your training.

In the other Damo thread i wrote that i liked his "white moon..." very much but wondered where all the replenishing is going on.

so hope to hear more from you in the future (if you into neidan at all?)

all the best

michael

:)Very well spoken Spotless!!

Hi Dawei!

since this is a forum i would need to use words to desribe experience......this forum will not work with silent transmission.

there is also nothing bad with mind and words.....only when we are still bound to them, after unbounding they are just tools for certain things......like using words to describe something

From my understanding spotless has put it best.

Karma is our thinking and feeling patterns we are attached to. The reactions we have when we are triggered, our experience of our sense of self; the blockages in our bodies......and on a very deep level even our bodies.

I would not talk about transforming it; it is stuck energy....it needs to be released.

Our world constantly reflects back our karma and we are stuck in the cycle of samsara because we want to change outside events....but they are just an expression of our unconcious held karmic loads. If we look what the outer events cause within us (the thoughts and escpecially the emotions) then they can be released and this errodes our sense of self until that which always was is revelead.

and the nice thing is that outer events very often then change without doing anything other than releasing the loads we carry....and diseases heal also with this.

To really release the deep stuff we need to be able to fully feel it while it passes. Fully feeling is something that even people who are in an awake state want to bypass. So this is simply yet not easy.

So our whole day can a means to release ever deeper patterns of karmic imprinting.

the best way to learn this in my opinion is Michael Browns "the presence process" (teaches this outer reflection cycle) and Scott Kilobys work.

I also liked white moon on the mountain peak.

I just wondered that there is not replenishing of the 3  pre- heaven treasures in it, he seems to get them just out of the wuji (the 3 alchemical agents), but no replenishing going on. He just redirects the postheaven jing to flow upwards instead of downwards. which is a good thing but where is the pre-heaven replenishing?

Dear DSCB57,

a technique cannot awaken you. It can Support the process but the actual awakening is not in the Hands of the individual....awakening is like a remembrance.

Awakening is waking up from being the Person you thought you were......so that Person cannot directly cause the awakening.

Purifaction helps but at a certain Point one has to ask "who is doing These techniques"?

Which brings one the the part of the process of the falling away of big chunks of the "I" (as spotless has put so well into words.)

the real cultivation starts when much of the I has been surrendered/cleared.

Awakening of the physical Body or physical Body enlightenment or in the Yoga sutras called perfection of the Body Comes after the Initial awakening. this process goes on by itself when one in the awakened state does not cling to the Notion of "being done". However this process is slow and can be accelarated by techniques (and because we do not live very Long in this Age in its natural unfolding will not come to its frution).

best

Michael

For stages of developement in consciousness (post personal) and beyond:

http://davidya.ca/2014/01/25/stages-of-development-in-consciousness/

best

michael

Kundalini can be awaken forcefully ...which brings some people into spiritual emergency centers  or into the psychiatry. And i would advice against such practices.

Kundalini awakens by itself when one is ripe.

A real kundalini awakening is not englightenment.

Kundalini is a mechanism of clearing and transformation which leads eventually to enlightenment. However most people cannot sustain a full blown awakening.

Having sex has nothing to do with getting enlightened or not.

Too much sex is, as with everything too much not healthy for body and mind. finding a good balance is supportive with ones healths.

best

Michael

Hi A.A. Khoklov!

Thanks for sharing!

Really cannot see the posts from awaken anymore.....it starts to really annoy me!

My question:

As far as i know yuanjing is replenished in the "laying the foundations stage". But now you say that that yuanqi is one of the first things to replenish. So i am curious:

Is yuanjing replenished before yuanqi or are they replenished at the same time?

Thanks in advance!

best

Michael

Hi!

There is a permanent awakening and there is one that is temporary.

Awakening is a shift in identity or self perception, a shift out of the Person you thought you were to the consciousness that is the source of everything.

the awakening itself is beyond senses, thoughts, emotions and sensations but influences them. How it influences them is different form Person to Person (how much Clearing has occured Prior to shift etc.).

here are some good links:

lucialorn.net/awakenings

lucialorn.net/states-of-consciousness

davidya.ca

All the best

michael

Hi CT!

i just recommended a website....nothing more. I am no teacher just share something here and there.  :-) From their website:

SELF Wakes up to itselfSELF.

Actually the experience for some is that of "waking up".....out of the experience of seperation to the eternal Self....as if one has slept all along.

I have never been to their retreat but i am friend with someone who woke up on their retreat and know some others who also woke up.

from their Website: Awakening is a permanent shift of the remembrance of the reality that i am consciousness itself.

I would say it is a shift in self identification from the individual me to the source of all.

Hi!

quite a few People woke up on a retreat of Lucia and Lorne Hoff. lucialorn.net

but of course one has to be ripe for that to happen. Afterwards there is a lot of winding down of old Patterns as the self deepens to itself.

they have also vids on YouTube where the silence can be felt if you are a Little sensitive. The talks they share are not for the thinking mind but for the real self (no knowledge is gained listening to them)

best

Michael

Hi Mudfoot!

Thanks for the clarification!

best

Michael