MIchael80

This has been more of the "experience" here: (quoted)......and because of that i do not like the true awakening talk. Awareness of Presence or "Transcendental Consciousness" is the experience of expanded alert awareness along with profound peace and silence, either in the environment in activity, or deep within during silent meditation. There can be the feeling of detachment from the body/mind. It is a fourth definite state of consciousness unlike waking, dream or sleep. It is a precursor to the actual shift to Self-remembrance. Transcendental Consciousness is being awake to the silent peace and stillness that is the true nature of the Self. There can be many degrees of intensity and various levels of witnessing in trancendental consciousness, but the clear recognition by the Self of the Self has not yet occurred. There are millions of people around the world today experiencing varying degrees of presence consciousness.  States of Consciousness 'States of Consciousness' does not mean states of individual consciousness. It means states of Consciousness itself. Consciousness itself is an unbounded field of pure Awareness. There are distinct perspectivess of Consciousness of itself as it becomes more awake its total reality, and there are many levels of clarity of refined perception within each state. These states cannot be missed. Experience, knowledge, perception and reality are completely different in each, even though Consiousness always remains the same One Consciousness. Cosmic Consciousness or "Self Realization" is awakening to being Pure Consciousness itself. It is the first stage of Enlightenment. It is a very profound shift in your sense of being and existing, the sense of who you are. The sense of Self shifts from being the person you think you are, to being the unbounded field of Awareness itself in which the person and all perceptions exist. You discover that there is no separate individual sense of self at all. The separate individual self was an illusion that happened as a result of conditioning and the false identification with the individual body/mind. Your real Self has always been unbounded, infinite and free all along.  It is not an altered state of Consciousness. It is Being Consciousness Itself -- what you really have always been. It is not a temporary experience; it is a natural, permanent state of being. The innermost self awakens to the unboundedness of its Self and finds itself to be the silent source of everything everywhere. Even though this feels like the final step and there is nowhere else to go, it is actually only the first step in the unfoldment of Consciousness to itself.  Refined Perception in Cosmic Consciousness or "God Realization" is Consciousness' refined perception of its nature as the process of experiencing. It is the perception of the flow of divine intelligence responsible for all experience. The underlying mechanics of the process of creation is revealed. It is the experience of the flow of intelligence responsible for all thinking, feeling, perceiving, experiencing, and all form and phenomena everywhere in your entire field of perception. The cosmic dimension of the individual mind/body is revealed. It is a continually deepening process of refinement and unfoldment taking place perpetually within Consciousness, though experienced differently in each state. The shift to unity Consciousness and beyond can happen prior to the full unfoldment of the depth of experience of refined perception. Unity Consciousness or "Oneness" happens when the Self, the subject and unbounded underlying essence of all things, awakens to itself as being the objects and phenomena of experience on the surface of life. It is a transition from being the unbounded field in which everything thing is happening , to being everything everywhere in the range of perception and experience. "Consciousness is everything everywhere, and I am that Consciousness". The unbounded subject has remembered itself to also be all objects of perception. They are One. The unboundedness of the Self has entered into the mind, body, and environment. All objects in the surroundings, while remaining the same from the perspective of the senses, are experienced as my Self. The world is no longer an object in Consciousness. It is Consciousness itself. It is my Self. It is the oneness of experiencer, process of experiencing and objects of experience. All of the apparent boundaries in the world are found to be my own Consciousness in appearance. From this perspective, the world is experienced to be even more real, because it is constructed out of the material of Consciousness itself, out of my own unbounded Self. The environment is now seen as pure unmodified Consciousness in the guise of the objective modifications of body, world and universe. It is not that the world and universe are seen to be an illusion. The illusion is that the world and universe is an objcetive physical reality. It has always been Consciousness itself, my own Self, pure subjectivity. There is no longer any distinction between inner or outer. The outer is the inner, the inner is the outer. Everything everywhere is my Self. "I" am all that there is. Refined Perception Within Unity Consciousness or "Unity in God Consciousness" is a further refinement of perception from the perspective of being everything. Consciousness awakens, with further clarity, to the underlying mechanics of creation and experience. It awakens to the subtle mechanics of its own innate intelligence that is responsible for creating the appearance of all life everywhere. It is the same shift in perception mentioned above, to experiencing the refined cosmic dimension of the feelings, intellect, mind, body, personality, senses, and all objects of experience; but it is experienced from an entirely different perspective now, one of wholeness, of being all that is. It is experiencing the flow of finer flavours and layers of intelligence within the wholeness of Self. It is Consciousness awakening to its internal dynamics as the perpetual flow of itself experiencing itself. It is the experience of the ultimate reality of the depth of the Self, the totality of Consciousness, and it is all Divine.  Beyond Consciousness or "Brahman Consciousness" is a perspective prior to Consciousness, prior to Intelligence and prior to existence itself. It is neither Self nor non-Self, neither Existence nor non-Existence, neither Being nor non-Being, neither Consciousness nor non-Consciousness. It is the clearest experience of Reality. Words like universe, multi-verse, Absolute, Totality, Self, God, Being, Presence, Pure Consciousness cannot touch it. It is beyond description. It is pure Nothingness. From this perspective; the body/mind, the world and the universe are not just an illusion, they have never even come into existence. The ultimate reality of something made from nothing, is nothing, not something. The word "nothing" does not do justice to the supreme peace, perfect equanimity, unlimited freedom and total knowledge that It is. It is truly indescribable. It is exclusively self-evident to itself alone.  Refined Perception Beyond Consciousness or "Refined Brahman Consciousness" is a completely different perspective of the same refinement of perception that is perpetually happening in Consciousness. But, because it is prior to Consciousness itself, there is no perceiver, no perceiving and no perceptio in the same sense. It is perpetually swelling in all the same divine flavours and qualities of wholeness and love as experienced previously, only in a finer more exquisite delicacy and fullness, prior to differentiation or distinction. It is the subtle intentention within nothingness to know itself. It is Pure Divine Power. From this perspective, the effect--Consciousness itself, and the creative intelligence inherent in Consciousness which is responsible for the appearance of creation, is also uncaused; and as such, so too is all creation. It is beyond all understanding. Supreme Reality Another shift to an even deeper perspective occurs in this state when that Nothingness recognizes that divine power as its own pure Supreme Divinity that has been cloaked in the appearance of creation. That supreme divinity is the ultimate cause of all causes. It creates and appears as the sense of Being, Consciousness or Self; all divine creative intelligence, and all creation. It is pure divine radience. Refinement of perception of the universal body/mind continues in this state.

Daweis answer is very good!! there are very different forms of neidan. there is sitting type (sitting in meditation/silence or "doing" in sitting) there is moving type... to me there is a spectrum from purly alchemical to mixed with spiritual. In purly alchemical the focus is on the body and the xing as soul. there is no identity switch to the emptiness itself(the infinite awareness as source of everything)..no transcendence,...... though the emptiness is used. They produce a new energy body that is immortal and in that process the physical body also gets immortal. These are mostly moving types of neidan or when sitting, they will do also armmovings or internal movings......they have the most alchemical effect in that they produce the extremly longlived people (several hundreds of years is not uncommon in those circles). These schools are only left a few and they still are very secretive and will transmit their teaching not in written form nor have their mehtods ever been written down...just like with external alchemy. the other schools include more stillness meditation and also the transcendence of the human experience into "becoming the unbounded emptiness"...these are most of the todays forms of neidan. they still have rejuvaneting effects but not as the purly alchemical and their goal is not just to produce the new energy body but also to shift our indentity to the emptiness like all other spiritual systems. All these schools differ with how much they incorporate from the alchemical side and the spiritual side. the dan (the elixier) that is being produced is different in its ingredients depending how strong the alchemical principle is used in that school. For some "elixier" is the name for our true self and nothing more, for others it is some gathered chi and for still others pre-heaven forms of energy are used. hope that helps.

Then you would have to carefully read the book and very slowly follow its advice. There are neidan schools in russia that teach neidan through skype (yuxian pai).....they are very secretive but have a full neidan system. they are not much liked here as they are ...lets say very direct with their view on neidan. www.daode.ru this is anther neidan school: http://www.qianfeng.nl/ best

Hi! "White moon" is about neidan and "comprehensive guide" is about neigong...which are 2 different things for damo and he teaches accordingly. "comprehensive" comes first and after several years "white moon" can be started.....but these are really deep things...better to go to at least some Seminars with damo or one of his teachers. best

Sure....some....short very reduced need for food, water, sleep and oxygen.

Ohh he is not my teacher anymore........was not my way.......but wanted to support what freeform said (it is true). He is not enlightened......he has the full elixier which means the replenished yuan jing and yuan chi merged with yuan shen....this is the merging of xing and ming and that makes one earth immortal......and the phyiscal canges are very obvious at that stage. And i will not show his profile. best

Totally agree with all what you said! (also in previous posts on this topic) I have met a lineage holder of an longmen lineage. He teaches when asked and is on facebook but he does not show his mastery....only when the would be students can sense it and ask him does he reveal himself. He is currently earth immortal stage which seems unbelievable when one is not within those cirles.....and he lives in a city but trained in china in seclusion under his teachers guidance. So i know that you are right...these circles exists! (and they have "unbelievable" results) All the full alchemy knowledge is only passed on oraly and these texts are not worth anything without direct experierence and a teachers guidance. One thing that can be said is that the alchemical process is not as complicated as the old texts make it seem. all the best on your way! M

Totally aggree with your statement what alchemy is.......i would say that external alchemy and internal alchemy are basically the same just one with the body/mind and the other with substances outside of the body. Some neidan schools still have the methods for waidan also....but told me that it only leads to the "human immortal" level. best

Puhhh, will try my best.....i just read it one time and the book has over 500 pages. The most important thing would be that it is not a specific set of movements but principles that need to be followed in order to come to that stage. It can be incorporated into any qi gong system. But it needs hard work. It is actually a state one reaches after a long process. It starts with the sinew changing classic......to do qi gong in a way that the tendons etc. are engaged and also the huang (somehow similiar to the fascia within our body). One lets the chi not just flow within the channels but also in the physical body and in it on ever deeper levels until it reaches the bone marrow and the marrow of the brain (skin depth, sinew depth, channel depth, viscera depth, marrow depth). The body becomes conditioned into a qi gong body (every body part needs to be in the right alignment to move further). The chi triggers an effect and the marrow produces new jing. to lead qi into the the marrow of the bones....to consolidate the jing to a higher level.....to purify the jing......to lead the jing to the brain.....to generate more jing. hope that helps! best

Great Text! I think it is important to point out that there are other lineages that also state simiiar things. In fact i was in contact with a teacher of a not public longmen pai lineage and he stated the same things. but it is important to note that wuliu etc talk about the pre-heaven jing and chi (yuan jing and chi) and not the post-heaven energies. there are some sources that claim that buddhism also had jing replenishment and that boddhidarma taught it in what is now called "the bone marrow washing" principles. Damo Mitchell talks about that in his latest book. Rather than being certain movements these are principles and when used and developed they replenish jing. Despite that there seem to be several schools in china which claim that they are wuliu pai and their methods seem to differ considerably from one another. Some being mostly sitting type, some mixed (sitting and movements) and others being mostly movements. And so in some there is great concern with jing leakage and in others it is not so important as the refilling mechanism is so powerful....that being said there are times when sex is forbidden. i found that article quite interesting: http://qianfengdaoismuk.weebly.com/wu-liu-daoism-in-modern-china.html All the best

http://qianfengdaoismuk.weebly.com/wu-liu-daoism-in-modern-china.html

you could contact him.....he speaks very good english......he teaches that stuff! A lot of the people report very good results. http://www.gottmensch.de/wir/kontakt/ best

????? just want to post a source that there are lineages doing that outside of daoism. A friend of mine is doing it and he can do in the midday sun and his eyes are perfect (there is a technique to do it right or the eyes will get burned).

https://sunyoga.info/

Non-duality is a shift in perception......not something to think endlessly about. However we have to be carefull here....the first shift in perception (awakening to the pure awarness that is experienced as the source of all) can very well be a great shift and feel like "the end" but there is usually sublte duality there. If the experience is that the world or creation is an ilusion or just a dream then we have this subtle dualism (the "true" unmanifest and the "illusory" creation) only with deepening into awareness, more clearing and refinement and further shifts do we come to a true unity where the unmanifest and the manifest creation are exactly the same and hence forth a true unity. To the alchemy: there are very old methods of neidan that still use xing and ming (xing and ming is a more primordial form of yin and yang and has to be merged in the process). The "methods of the first emperors" is one of them.....and these old neidan has a more powerful alchemical principle than most of the "newer" neidan forms (or better said ...less obscured alchemical principle). Are there writtings about that? Yes inside some schools not official...BUT there are writings from the tamil siddhas and they had masters much further back in time and they have a system called vaasi yoga that is very similiar to neidan. (and uses these alchemical principles). best

really like this gif!!

There is a system tha has both the ida and pingala and what is called the mco in taoism......this is the system of the tamil siddhas explained in the wonderful book "siddhas: master of the basics" form Pal Pandian. so these are different channels. in Daoism the ida and pingala are called side brachnes of the central channel (damo mitchell explains that in his books). Prof. Jerry Alan Johnson writes that in Peking there are doctors that say that the healthy normal flow of chi is up the front and down the back and only reverses through internal training. best

The book is part of a more complete manuscript so in the book is not the full method.. The school it comes from accepts students though. this is the branch of the school in the netherlands: http://www.qianfeng.nl/ best

sigh........ Oh dwai......why are you playing semantics here? These are words......how to communicate on a forum without words? So you have not read the links........because they clearly talk about that these things are not experienced by a jiva,. person or whatever but are shifts in awerness itself and beyond it. quote: (from lucialorn.net) States of Consciousness 'States of Consciousness' does not mean states of individual consciousness. It means states of Consciousness itself. Consciousness itself is an unbounded field of pure Awareness. There are distinct perspectivess of Consciousness of itself as it becomes more awake its total reality, and there are many levels of clarity of refined perception within each state. These states cannot be missed. Experience, knowledge, perception and reality are completely different in each, even though Consiousness always remains the same One Consciousness. Cosmic Consciousness or "Self Realization" is awakening to being Pure Consciousness itself. It is the first stage of Enlightenment. It is a very profound shift in your sense of being and existing, the sense of who you are. The sense of Self shifts from being the person you think you are, to being the unbounded field of Awareness itself in which the person and all perceptions exist. You discover that there is no separate individual sense of self at all. The separate individual self was an illusion that happened as a result of conditioning and the false identification with the individual body/mind. Your real Self has always been unbounded, infinite and free all along.  It is not an altered state of Consciousness. It is Being Consciousness Itself -- what you really have always been. It is not a temporary experience; it is a natural, permanent state of being. The innermost self awakens to the unboundedness of its Self and finds itself to be the silent source of everything everywhere. Even though this feels like the final step and there is nowhere else to go, it is actually only the first step in the unfoldment of Consciousness to itself. Beyond Consciousness or "Brahman Consciousness" is a perspective prior to Consciousness, prior to Intelligence and prior to existence itself. It is neither Self nor non-Self, neither Existence nor non-Existence, neither Being nor non-Being, neither Consciousness nor non-Consciousness. It is the clearest experience of Reality. Words like universe, multi-verse, Absolute, Totality, Self, God, Being, Presence, Pure Consciousness cannot touch it. It is beyond description. It is pure Nothingness. From this perspective; the body/mind, the world and the universe are not just an illusion, they have never even come into existence. The ultimate reality of something made from nothing, is nothing, not something. The word "nothing" does not do justice to the supreme peace, perfect equanimity, unlimited freedom and total knowledge that It is. It is truly indescribable. It is exclusively self-evident to itself alone.

That is just untrue about brahman. there is something "beyond" brahman and it is not just giving up the concepts of it. One could say that brahman discovers its own source. As this is beyond consciousness it is beyond duality and non-duality alike. Sat-chit- ananda means absolute bliss consciousness. With regards to Davids modell brahman is not used to describe infinite awareness/consciounsess.......brahman is used for being prrior to or beyond infinite awarness/consioucness.

first, why not read the links? They are much more awake then i am :-) .....and it is clear in the writing that this is not about "someone" attaining something. Again, the first point is what is called self-realization/cosmic consicousness etc. the shift from being a person to the underlying awarness of everything. No one awakes in that sense....one wakes up from being a person....atman wakes up to itself one could say. and then discoves more subtle values of itself. (though in later stages the person itself starts to wake up too) it is not about states, but stages.......the word stage could be misleading, when the reality is more a continual deepening/unfolding of Self to itself.....but some of this unfolding/deepening is experienced as major and so it is described as a stage. And at a certain point something wakes up from being the non-dual self, brahman, and then something wakes up from brahman. I will leave it at that. It has all been said and the links speak for themselves. I just wanted to point out posibilities, because i do not like it when things are said as ultimate, when they aren't. best

Hi dwai! this is wordy in a sense but important is the general idea. :-) I think they apply well, but i would have left the refined phases out of an overall modell. Have you read the article? He also has put that into a book ("our natural potential" by david Buckland). He actually talks about two interwind process........one are the shifts in being and the other is a refinement process (clearing out anger, wounds, etc and by that awakening to subtle levles of reality like how the devas work etc.) for ex. the first shift to "pure consciousness/awarness" usually comes with the perception of "the world and all in it is an illsion". the shift to "god realization" brings that to the experience "the world is a divine play (lila)" and the shift to the "true unity" makes the world more concrete as as it becomes also the self. (awarness recognizes itself fully in the manifest) when one goes "beyond awarness" the "expierence" is that nothing was ever created it was just a brief "thought" of of the source. (which is beyond or prior to infinte awareness). "pure divinity" brings everything into existence....at first this infinite awareness out of which then everyhting comes. so in evey major shift "reality" is experienced totally different. there is no one doing it in the usual sense.....it happens by not clining to "being done" or "now i understand it all". Most people in an awakened state usually think that they have it and there is nothing more. Also how these "states" manifest seem to vary more than we usually think. There seem to be some who talk about the forming of a new "identiy" (not attached to)....a divine ego or an embodiment of the soul body....and this is the way like it is experienced here (and by david also). Aisha Salem talks aobut that and Almaas also. To it seems like a natural forming of what neidan calls yangshen or in highest yoga tantra the "pure illusiory body"....but i will have to see myself. I am not good with hindu terms dwai. As that is not my modell just one that seems to fit well (i found david because in meditation i "fell" out of infinite awarness and could not find any source that talks about that....but then found davids blog) we have to see how david uses those terms. As far as i know he uses "jiva" as the soul which has multiple lives and he uses "Atman" as the pure infinite consciousness. He uses "brahman" for the stage of "beyond/prior consciousness". here is another link to some very awake who frame the process with more traditional terms but have a similiar "map" https://www.lucialorn.net/states-of-consciousness best!

That is a truth bindi! Also i would not say that waking up is enlightenement at all. We have to be careful to use words more wisely in that field. It is waking up...the first change in identity from being a person to the pure awarness underneath it. Usually there comes a "honeymoon" phase and after some time karmic cleansing starts at a higher rate. Which often results falling back into addictions and really dark emotions (i know of 2 people who where awake who commited suicide). Awakening has to mature and to be embodied for that to occur. There are more shifts coming if one matures, one of the matures ones is beyond that infinite awarness into well........and then into something even more beyond, the source of the source. From my expierence, this "there is nothing to be done" talk is often in the beginning or if it is not well embodied, after the awakening gets better embodied the talk usually changes to reflect that maturing. like awake beings that are matured talk, like Almaas, Aisha Salem or Scott Kiloby. A friend of mine who is very awake has created a kind of "map" to show some of the primary shifts one can move through after initial awakening. I will post a summary here and the link to the full article. The post-personal Stages in summary: 1 – Cosmic Consciousness (CC) or Self Realization (that is the stage that dwai talks about) 1a – Refined CC or God Consciousness (GC) 2 – Unity Consciousness (UC), Oneness or non-duality 2a – Refined Unity and God Realization 3 – Brahman or Beyond Consciousness 3a – Refined Brahman 3b – Parabrahman or Wholeness (that is the source of the source; the source of infinite awarness) https://davidya.ca/2014/01/25/stages-of-development-in-consciousness/ best!

Thanks for the info! Deity yoga is really fascinating and makes a lot of sense to start a really deep transformation. I will start to work with tantric deity yoga of "the secret sadhana of Vajravilasini". It is discusse in a tantric book called "tantric bliss" that is on the internet for free download and describes in detail all stages of tantra (deity yoga, subtle energy yoga, sexual yoga and mahamudra). they have two phases in there. 1. you visualize the deity and their mandala 2. you invite the actual deity into your visualization and then take that into your body. All the best on your way! Michael

Really nice! In buddhist tantra they use a lot of deity yoga. It is pat of the creation stage (a two staged model to enlightenment; creation stage being the first and then the completion stage). Have you found some benefits from the blessing of the deity? (deeper mediation, better health etc.) best Michael