MIchael80

The universal agent is not mercury. Mercury is the basic component of the socalled philosophers stone. Though practically you can make stone from minerals, herbs etc. In srictures mercury is called the supreme substances for making it....but one should really know how or it is deadly.

Hi! From what i was taught is that there are no alchemical herbs BUT alchemical prepared herbs. Through alchemical preparation their qualities are enhanced dramatically (and sometimes changed). Mercury for ex. is highly toxic but when one was taught the alchemical secret it becomes lifespan lengthenging, rejuvinating and healing. Simple form of herbs alchemy that is common today is spagyric. They have replenishing formulas but do not use chinese terms. Hope that helps a bit.

Hi! WLP is not one method but a school who preserves different neidan approaches. 1. Broad (later) northern alchemy method: which is the most publicly known neidan method as it is less restricted.... basically sitting meditation similiar (not the same) to quianfeng pai (taoist yoga book) 2. ancient northern method: really old method which was until recently only taught heart to heart and not much written down. WLP has opened that one under strict rules to the public. This is mostly standing practice but other ancient northern methods like Yuxian pai use sitting after preparation and mingrefillment. 3. ancient southern method: the oldest and most powerful one still only taught privately because it needs constant supervision. Only standing til the last stage (emptiness to dao) which is done sitting. Hope that helps Michael

? Of course is denying something an arguement. You made claims....i said yuxian pai does not do anything remotely what is described in that book. I also said what you said about wuliu pai is not true either. The only one not saying anything of value at all is not me.

Well you said "that you have quite a lot of experiences with yuxian pai and less with wuliu pai" and that they are "quite relatable". But yuxian pai does nothing even remotely similiar to anything in this book. And what i mentioned about Wuliu pai has nothing to do with branches from a tree at all.

Really? Where in Yuxian pai do you sit while meditating on the dantien? What kind of Wuliu pai method? Ancient northern, ancient southern or broad northern method?

Hi! 😊 I think such things are for people who do not want to do inner work.... for all the others trauma can be an immense growth factor given one works in a supportive setting with one of the great somatic modalities available. Things like EMDR Somatic experiencing EP (embodied processing) KI (Kiloby inquiries) Irene Lyons work (a very effective mixture of different somatic pratices). Etc Because with these medical interventions you learn nothing about your physiology, how to process emotions, how to get into contact with your body etc.

Hi! @Taoisttext ... would have to look inside the book. Translation was fire (up the back) and water (down the front). Palpandian "siddhas - masters of nature". It is on amazon.

Hi! Your statement is not true. Old indian traditions do have the mco (especially the Tamilsiddhas), they call it fire and water channel.

Hi! 😊 Could you describe some of this interplay with regards to the 10 heavenly stems and 12 earthly branches?

Hi Freeform! 😊 I was taught in different lineages that "rainbow body" (meaning the physical form completly disolves into light)is the highest attainment. Only in some very ancient daoist traditions there was one higher level....that was that the practitioner could decide the time WHEN to disolve the physical body....and with rainbow body they could not decide when , just that it disolves. They called that "completing the dao". Both said that disolving the physical body is a sign that all karma is disolved and that is why it is so rare. So what would be a higher attainment than that?

How to start?

Hi freeform! Are you allowed to talk about such tests and physical signs? Find that a hugely interesting subject! 😊

Hi creation! Well i would not call that beyond consciousness...as it is, as you described so well the recognition that this pure consciousness is always there and no withdrawing is needed. (Before that realization withdrawing is needed up to a certain point). But as this pure consciousness is always present there is a "level " that is prior to that even though it apears as the most fundamental "thing" and at the same time only "thing"that there is.

You cling to words where they cannot reach. But we have to use them in a conversation, right? They use "reality" because reality is "bigger" than pure awareness (you seem to use it as unbounded awareness). Maybe you want to listen to the Interview of Joel Richards i posted above (he describes these shifts) They very clearly state that they do not talk about states of individual consciousness but of shifts in being itself. Quote "consciousness is an unbounded field of pure awareness ". And beyond consciousness is "prior to..etc.etc." Your thought process goes into the right direction. 😊 ... it could seem like subtler and subtler forms of awareness and some become these subtler and subtler forms before the beyond shift. For some who make that shift it feels like a loosing of the enlightenment (unbounded source awareness) as it is ending a paradigm of perception/existence. However once it gets clear the mechanics of how pure unbounded consciousness is created are understood which is quite a revelation. 😊

Sigh.... 😔 In that quote i used presence and awareness as synonymous.... but you are right presence is not pure consciousness. I thought i made that clear that i , and the teachers i quoted (most come from a tradition) talk about beyond consciousness...beyond that basic fundamental consciousness which as you stated is "common to all states and things". https://www.lucialorn.net/states-of-consciousness This talkes about that....from presence to pure consciousness to beyond. I had already posted that.

Hi! Somehow missed that answer? 🤔 Anyway.... you say "from your own realization " ... and i say that there is just more than your realization. You do not read the sources i gave you ... even though the people there explicitly!!!! state that it is beyond absolute awareness/consciousness (not individual)... that is what i do not like! You claim something you have no own realization off and something you do not understand yet are totally resistent to look into it. And though i do not feel comfortable with saying that... i speak not from book knowledge... i just quote sources from several Teachers because i am a nobody on the Internet. I work with one teacher who had also realized that Joel Richards from fulldawncircle. Short Interview The absence beyond consciousness is not presence... presence in deep sleep is still presence/pure awareness. Beyond that there is nothing...literally a no thing ness...it cannot be experienced...because consciousness as the silent source is needed for experience... the absence of it is very strange at first. Even that no thing ness is not the end.... it is swallowed by pure divinity... and it is hidden by pure consciousness. Has nothing to do with mystification... just that there is more than pure eternal awareness. Here a leading by Andrew Hewson from I Am.. through pure awareness ..beyond it. Since you shifted to pure awareness...that leading can take you maybe beyond it. It would be wonderful if you could see that for yourself... but since you say that is ridiculous... that could be a block. 😊

A friend of mine knows them, they are excellent. 😊

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First i would say ... why not ask people who claim that and have stabalized there? Next is...there are some hints to that unfolding in scriptures, i was shown but forgot where because i am really bad with scriptures. It is also not my experience at all that stages are a modern concept. All the old traditions i know have describtion of stages of awakening. Next, from the experience here ... i am not stabalized there but was there for a while...because for me it felt like falling out of consciousness and had no reference for it i began searching and found some who where there. It was very different from breathless samadhi and the awakened "experience " so i needed a frame for it. And normal awake teachers gave the same answers you write here. Well you describe excactly what it is ...it is the abscence of knowing....for me it was like a blankness.... and only the contrast to consciousness got it some recognition. However those that are there say that changes with time . I have met several of these individuals and they agree on this unfolding... some have been awake for decades and then moved beyond consciousness... but it is seldom. If you know everything better maybe write these people that they are deluded and post the response here? As my understanding is ridiculed by you.

Do you know these stages of unfolding? Because you are so sure. And if you know these why is the real/unreal any question as it comes much before? In your analogy we could say salt being the individual and water being the pure unbounded awareness. With regards to further unfolding....that would be beyond water.

Well the actual reality is that for several people it feels like falling out of the Self....some need months of adjustment...at first it is just a blankness. 😊 But to me more important in this context is the real vs. unreal dichotomy.....very basic... is just a perception of reality from a certain stage of awakening.

Hi! As with everything that an awakened being or scripture says it is important where in the divine unfolding that being was (stages of awakening....though i do not like the word stages so much) With the first big shift there is a change of self experience from being a mind/body to pure still unbounded consciousness. At this point the world appears often like a dream or unreal....like it is covering the real. (Stage of that prayer) If you desire (here it means you are open to) further unfolding...at a certain point a unification happens...like pure awareness recognizes itself as form....the real regocnizes itself also as the "unreal " and that duality collapses leading to deep changes in the psyche and body also. Ramanas teaching comes from here "the world is not real only Brahman is real, the world is Brahman. Once this unity process completes one moves beyond consciousness....which is rather dramatic at first because it feels like falling out of source (pure awareness) like loosing ones awakening....because what is when there is no basis at all? After a while pure unbounded consciousness is seen as another layer over the pure source ... but that is beyond this response. Important is that there are different perspectives in the awakening unfolding...and they have quite distinct realities.

It is not what....but from "where" the action comes. 😊

Human beings are not capable of wholesome virtuous behaviour. Only after a good amount of spiritual practices and inner transformation is there a slight dawning of such conduct. Before, there is only behaviour based on trauma, karma, social conditioning etc.