Miffymog

Because I'm self taught, my own practice changes quite widely with time. I currently practice Zhan Zhuang based on Lam Kam Chuen's book 'The Way of Energy'. But it is a particular practice that isn't for most people.

What I'd advise others to do first is get into a moving practice, Spring Forest seems quite a good one to start with. I looked into it a little bit and the attitdue I'd take towards it would be a playful one with no expectations. And then just see how you feel after 6 months.

As for KAP, I don't really know enough about it I'm afraid.

I'm afraid this initial confusion is all part of the process. The only way you can find out if something works for you is to try it out for a while. For me, the most important aspect then is do I enjoy doing it? Will I still practice on my least motivated day?

The great thing about trying things out is that even if you move on to something else, your mind still remembers the kind of effect it had on you. So if in the future that particular practice then becomes right for you, you'll find yourself thinking about it again and you can add it to your repertoire.

I've recently been experimenting with the MCO and found I could either draw up energy from below or draw in energy from above. Each one has it's own quality, although I found the higher energy to be purer.

Adding this extra energy may allow for various meridians to be cleaned out more easily, also if you know what you are doing, you may be able to refine and transform it.

However, the path I’ve chosen is to ignore both of them. So rather than drawing in higher or lower energies, I deliberately stay ‘self contained’.

Letting go of attachment to any energy has really benefited my other practices. It’s hard to put into words how, but it just has …

This thread covers some of the issues related to using psychedelics in regards to spiritual progression - there are ups and downs.

I'm in a similar situation to yourself and I started where you are a couple of years ago. Here is my practice blog that charts my development from ZZ and then on to other things, it might help.

5 hours ago, Orion said:

 

If money were no object, I would teach for free, but I would screen my students. It has nothing to do with one's social standing but their potential to have insight. I understand that money is real and it's also a form of energy. When we pay for a service (like a teaching), it's trading energy (teachings) for energy (money). At some point though it becomes a bit much... like when teachers are obviously gouging students in order to pad their luxury lifestyles.

 

When I pay a teacher, if my funds are going toward their further development on the path, which in turn becomes of benefit to everyone, then I am okay with that, within reason. Some people are just selfish and have no ethics. They think their teachings are solid gold and they don't care if their students live in poverty in order to learn them.

 

To me, a teacher who is self-realized will have a compassionate nature and have workarounds for this. Maybe we can do an exchange. Maybe I can do grunt work for them for a while. Or maybe they just see that I'm worth it and will teach me because the higher power (or whatever you want to call it) is directing them to teach me. I've met people like that... who are so difficult, but I know they MUST know something I know and therefore I should stick around. But there are a lot of teachers out there who don't look beyond the material and see those kinds of virtues. They think about their lives, their immediate gain... there's no understanding of Source and universal regeneration.

 

I find that the more generous I am, the more I am given to, even if it's not from the person I just gave to. Some other aspect of life comes through. Giving and receiving are part of the same channel. Denying one is denying both. Too bad capitalism doesn't see it that way.

Just to say that I've never thought of money as a form of energy before - but now you mention it, I completely agree.

This idea is just what I watched on a youtube video a while ago, but I quite liked it.

Imagine looking on at see-saw from the side going up and down, its position is can be represented on a piece of paper in 2 dimensions.

Now imagine looking at a circular plate that is balancing on a pointed object in its center, this is a 3 dimensional system.

Now, if you look at the balancing circular plate from the side, you can reduce the 3 dimensional plate back to a 2 dimensional system of a see-saw.

This is then how you can compare the Yin Yang of the taiji to the five elements of earth, metal, water, wood and fire. Yin Yang is a 2D representation of the 5 elements, or the 5 elements are a 3D representation of Yin Yang.

I understand where you are coming from. A possible direction is that a stronger physical body results in a stronger emotional body. And when you have a stronger emotional body it becomes a bit easier to deal with the challenges that everyone faces.

Side stepping the issue of whether you should take psychedelics or not, I did a quick search on Google and came up with this article, which is quite interesting.

I used to think that using psychedelics ‘expanded’ your mind. But this chap had some injected and then laid in a CT scan. He began to find it really strange and just had this overwhelming desire to talk to people, but the scan gave an insight into what actually goes on during a trip.

Rather than activating and stimulating the mind, the drug actually restricts blood to various parts of the brain. And the areas with restricted blood flow are the parts of the brain which deal with where we think we are, and who we think we are – hence the concept of self diminishes.

To continue the precis, the article goes on to say that in some people, this area is over stimulated, and so the use of a drug that reduces activity can be of some benefit.

So, rather than ‘opening’ your mind, you’re actually in a small way, ‘closing’ a small part of it off – the area where the sense of self resides.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12122409

Oooo - he says, "Yes, I take psychedelics". Now, for the moment, he comes across as being quite a switched on person. The thing is, these drugs can be addictive and will do long term harm to your mind. There are those out there whom may choose to take them based on this chap's experiences and open up a whole can of very bad worms for themselves.

Its better to suggest techniques that are healthy for both your mind and body, then if you don't find enlightenment at the end of it, at least you have a healther body and mind.

In silent and serene illumination, the energy is lively, smooth and level, magnificently peaceful.

Do not leave any traces and inside and outside will merge into one totality.

Stillness is your shelter, alone and splendid within the circle.

Hongzhi Zhengjue

I also watched this video and it pricked my curiosity enough for me to then do a little bit of research on the internet into him. My initial response was slightly cynical, in that if he'd had this insight during a silent retreat, the retreat leader would have either metaphorically or physically banged him on the head and told him to just get back to his cushion and carry on practising.

However, off the back of this experience, he’s seems to have successfully set up a website and career producing podcasts on spiritual matters and the reviews of them are actually pretty high. There are a lot of people who find them very helpful – so all credit to him.

Hi Dhammadad,

I had a similar back ground to you before I got into Qi Gong. My suggestion is the book 'The Way of Energy' by Lam Kam Chuen. It's nicely put together and is a safe way to get into this kind of stuff without having a local teacher. The simplicity of 'Silient Illumiation' resonnated with me - which was also something I found in 'The Way of Energy.

Actually, as I think about it, after having had a morning standing practice for over two years now, I've just recenly got back into practicing 'Silent Illumiation' in the evenings, and the two compliment each other very strongly. So it's well worth keeping it up along side any Qi Gong you may add

On 13/09/2017 at 10:56 PM, LousyLaoTzu said:

@Orion,  thank you so much for sharing that detailed,  intriguing and overwhelmingly beautiful story. 

 

 

Since posting this thread I've listened to everyone's thoughts and opinions and found that I agree.  I have stopped smoking pot as much,  found the same level of relaxation affter a cup of tea and a mere 10-15 minutes of meditation. 

 

Thank you all very much.  All of you are greatly appreciated. 

Wow - good stuff.

I was going to write this post a few days ago but didn't get round to it. Anyway, 6 months ago I stopped buying tea or coffee because I thought I was drinking too much of it. All that seemed to happen was that I missed my morning cup.

I've just started revising for some exams and decided to buy some tea and coffee again in order to give me that mental boost. And I have to say, it works. I get some really good study done after a strong cup of coffee and every thing seemed good.

I then went on a long bus journey to meet up with someone. On the way there, I really enjoyed just looking out the windows and looking at the scenery. But, on the return journey, half way through I started to crave a cup of coffee. Ok, this craving was not all that strong, but it was enough to take my mind off the pleasant scenery that was passing me by, and this was the price of my mild caffeine addiction.

When I thought about it a bit more, I realised that quite possibly in the past, I reckon I spent nearly all of my time looking forward to something that was going to happen later rather then just enjoying what I was doing just then.

And this is what a spiritual practice can help with, if you become a little more settled in yourself, you start to become more sensitive to the things that take you away from this state. For me, this is my mild addiction to caffeine. After this realisation, I threw out all my coffee as I always have that really strong, but I've kept my tea, as I don't want to go to far too soon.

I do look back fondly at my time when I used to sit in silence, or more accurately meditate in 'Silent Illumination'. It was a meditation that was well suited to me and gave me some good experiences. However, my current Zhan Zhuang practice gives me more concrete continual spiritual progression. Compared to 'Silent Illumination', it is entirely based in the body and results in physical development as well as mental. Like a seated practice, the progress is slow, but it is very much there.

21 hours ago, LousyLaoTzu said:

Taoist Novice's Deep Question of the Day:
 

Are humans better at creation or destruction?
 

For me, this is a simple, glass half full or half empty question. How do you (choose to) see the world?

A strange example would be Kim Jong-un's scientists creating an Hydrogen bomb. Depending on how much assistance they were given by the Chinese, this could actually be seen, in some lights, as a truly incredible success of skill and determination against really limited resources. The fact is, the speed at which he is creating deliverable war heads is astonishing.

(Although, given the expansion of Chinese territories in the region, the Chinese are just happy for the attention to be drawn away from their own activities).

On 18/05/2017 at 10:31 PM, wilfred said:

Lengthy but Peterson makes a compelling, academically grounded argument for why some form of fascism is more likely to arise from the left of the political spectrum. Namely, the overwhelming aversion associated with 'hate speech' and use of authoritarian tactics to shut down both people/ideas by the the politically correct crowd.

 

 

This was certainly true of Nazi Germany, but the conditions which helped Hitler rise to power were the reparations imposed upon Germany by the Allies.

Mildly off topic ...

The opposite of left wing politics, as in right wing politics, can simply be described as low, or very low taxation. The example of this in the UK was Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s and her Conservative policies.

She destroyed the power of the labour Unions, organisations that still have massive influence in France, although this is in part due to the legacy of the French revolution.

Her low tax policy helped create the business centre which is the city of London. Corrupt and cocaine fuelled. But the tax that is generated by this one square mile is a significant proportion of the total income of the government.

Curiously enough, a zero tax approach is actually quite anarchistic. You need something, such as health care, you go out and earn the money to pay for it - each to their own.

Slightly off topic as this comment is not to do with native Americans, but this week I learnt that the Vikings managed to make it to North America in the 10th century. This is something I did not know before and only increases my respect for those ancient nutters.

They were well settled in North Scotland for a long period of time and there's quite a bit of Viking graffiti in various caves. It's quite common for school parties to take scratchings of these markings and take them back to school and translate into English. Unfortunately, rather than giving any deep insight into that great race, these scratching are normally along the lines of

... my name is Eric the Viking and my penis is much bigger than Rolf's ...

... my name is Viking Rolf, and I can categorically state that Eric's penis is much much smaller than mine ...

hmmmm - I think some things will never change, such as the fun to be had in taking the mick out of the size of your friend's cock.

This is can be done in a similar way to remembering numbers...

Just come up with a fun, enjoyable sentence, with numbers in it, then use the first letter of each word for the password.

'There are 5 swans on the lake'

=

Ta5sotl

and then come up with some way to add symbols in a similar way

17 minutes ago, Nothingness said:

Hi wstein, very good question.

 

It is actually very hard to put this answer into words.

The world awaking me up is a 'knowledge' of the mind AFTER it has awaken up.

It is only after I (mind) wake up and become awareof the world that I can say that it was "the world" (siren, alarm etc) that has awoken me (mind) up.

Therefore it is only after I am aware of the world that the 'knowledge' that the world has awoken me, emerges.

This means that even this 'knowledge' needs my awareness to exist, so it (and the world) is still non-existing on its own. 

 

I'm not sure I managed to convey exactly what I wanted to say, it's easy to understand via direct experience though.

 

What we have to ask ourselves is: Has the mind really risen up in the morning? Let's not assume it has and let's investigate..

I think you've done a very good job of explaining this point of view. I've read similar ones from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, but I do like how you've explained it too.

For me, I don't quite go this far, because to do so requires too much thought on my part to explain or understand it, and I try to avoid any trains of thought that require, well, too much thought. What you say may well be true and fits in with an experiential point of view, but it is, for me, on the extreme side.

For example, are we material or spiritual beings? For me both.

Were we ever born and will we ever die. Right now, maybe not, but in the end yes.

It can be nice going to the extremes for these points of view, but I'm more of a middle ground kind of guy.

I have mixed views on this topic. This is the response I gave on the same topic in a previous thread.

“When ever I read about some one smoking cannabis and trying to energetically cultivate themselves, my first response is always to think that that is a crazy idea. I then remember that I get slightly / quite drunk once or twice a week and realise that I'm in no position to judge anyone”

However, the different drugs, for me, have quite different effects. When I was a student, I smoked cannabis heavily and it seriously effected my motivation levels and my studies suffered.

When I did research, there is no way I could have done that work while smoking, but I could happily drink 4 pints every evening and it had no noticeable negative impact on my work.

When I was a teacher, there was no way I could have drunk anything in the evening and still taught well the next day, so even drinking was limited to the weekends.

So it very much depends on the effects of the drug and what your life commitments are like at the time.

But – they both have a negative effect on your health. If you're trying to cultivate energetically, this is more easily done with a healthy body, and not with one that is also trying to remove the toxins from either alcohol or cannabis.

Damn, I wish there was an instructor near me. Unfortunately there's not so I'm trying to practice it as simply as possible and progress as slowly as possible. So Chang, I was wondering what else I might need to consider if I practice in the following way;

My feet are hip width, rather than shoulder width.

I've tried out various positions of the feet, my favourite is parallel, maybe very slightly outwards.

My knees are bent as little as possible to just activate the muscles needed to stand.

My arms are down the side of my body, with a very mild curve so they are not completely straight and not touching my chest, and my hands gently open.

My head is held up, maybe with a very slight tilt down to expand the gap between the base of my skull and the top of my spine.

Now, here is my location of uncertainty - I do have to think about the tilt of my pelvis and this is a concern for me. I can either hold it at a naturally curved position, or as a straight spine as if it were up against a wall, (or somewhere in the middle of these two). I tend to opt for the one which is somewhere between these two, but here it would help to have some help.

Great opportunity for me to put up a link to my own Zhan Zhuang practice log. For the first 4 months of my practice I only stood for 5 minutes a day and now 2 years on I'm now up to 25.

But Cheshire Cat, I'd be really interested to know how it was detrimental to your health. I'm always slightly worried about my knees, is this where your problems were? Also, your avatar is the ZZ cat and I'm very jealous  if you're not standing anymore, I might just steal it from you ...

I've enjoyed reading the earlier links you've provided, so I may well read these current ones, but its time for me to have a little time out from this train of thought.

Looking for scientific evidence of Chi is, I think, a very admirable pursuit, and it's important in life to be open minded to new and exciting ideas. It is also something I would have done with some vigour a number of years ago and it's very interesting reading about some of the current theories.

But now, I'm more of the attitude of trying to 'unlearn something everyday' so I actually tend to avoid reading any new theories, which does mean I miss out on things, but hopefully gives me a slightly more relaxed life.

Good luck with this interest Voidisyinyang, your enthusiasm has got me reading and thinking about things I would not have normally done, so thank you

1.
Biophotons do seem to be ultraviolet photons released by enzymes. However, detecting them requires photomultipliers and an exposure time of 15 minutes, so their intensity is incredibly low, which means their effect on any system would be very small indeed.

2.
The fundamental point of your above post is the ability of the water to 'capture' these photons. Once this is done various other phenomena are then demonstrated. As is described by Ho and others [http://www.i-.org.uk/liquidCrystallineWater.php] the state the water needs to be in in order to do this is semi-crystalline.

Now, there is evidence that next to a surface, a couple of layers of water molecules will indeed align into a semi-crystalline state, with a similar structure to that of ice.

Ho and others then suggest that this region extends across the whole of a cell or biological structure.

Once this is done, the water in this structure can exhibit 'entanglement that is superconducting as a chain of delocalized protons via the imaginary mass of light' and other phenomena.

But here is the problem. These crystalline regions of water are exactly that, crystalline. They demonstrate these particular properties because the water molecules are not randomly moving. However, if this property was to extend across the whole cell, that would effectively prevent osmosis across a boundary of a cell, and also prevent diffusion of chemicals through the liquid in the central region of the cell, which would result in its death.

There has to be random movement of water molecules for osmosis and diffusion. The crystalline region which is so fundamental for virtually all of the theories Ho et all suggest can not allow these two effects to occur.