Taoist Texts

Even although I was having arguments with Taoist Texts (the sophist) in the past, I have to admit that it is sad seeing him so defeated and writing this kind of bukowskian poem, fortunately English is not my mother tongue, so  the disgusting effect was weak.

Well, a year ago I've asked Taoist Texts to tell us his sad story, why he hates Daoists so much and Neidan in particular. After a year he got a courage to tell. The usual Taobum's  story: right intention in the beginning, bad fate - learning from a charlatan, getting nothing and became frustrated , nihilistic and sarcastic.

I am probably living in some alternative universe from these two guys, the taobum.com being the astral portal that joins the two worlds.

 Maybe  my intellectual mind cannot make the leap from this  attempt to describe to standardized TCM description because I have not read the right books. Any directions or pointer from anyone reading would be greatly appreciated by me. 

I would venture to say its not just  reading the right books, it is also accepting what they say.

As to your very impressive (as Xuanming very correctly noticed) spontaneous movements, a locus classicus  is here :

http://wenshuchan-online.weebly.com/uploads/9/4/8/2/9482304/the-secrets-of-chinese-meditation-self-cultivation-by-mind-cont-1.pdf

pages 205-208 of pdf (195-198 numbered).

That looks so beautiful relaxing and lovely. Is the man in the video your teacher? Do you have classes you attend or are you a solo practitioner? Do you teach this form? I am very interested in  the poetry of your words describing your  practice.  

its gonna be blunt poetry this time;))

That looks so beautiful relaxing and lovely. Is the man in the video your teacher?

no i dont know him, its just a video from which it can be learned a thing or two. You see i dont believe in live teachers. This gentlemen posessess a secret to his art that took him his whole life to obtain. Why would he teach it to me? There is no possible reason to do so.

Do you have classes you attend or are you a solo practitioner?

Long time ago i attended some classes just to make suer i am not missing on anything a teacher can give me. It turned out i did not.

Do you teach this form?

Not really. The secret to it is so counterintuitive and the form is so useless in the short-term that there is no demand, which is just as well.

I am very interested in  the poetry of your words describing your  practice.

sorry;)

my vote goes to Ursula

Ursula: When you gender the philosopher and when you talk only about Kings and Sages – though technically that word is non-gender – I do believe that most readers immediately see an ancient person with a beard. A bit like God. And sine I had taken this book to my heart as a teenage girl, it obviously is a book that speaks to women. Lao Tzu feminized mysteries in a different way from anybody else. These are not “feminine mysteries,” but he makes mystery itself a woman. This is profound, this goes deep. And the most mystical passages in the book are the most feminine. This is something women need, I think, and long for, often without knowing it. That’s undoubtedly one reason why all my life I’ve found the Tao de Ching so refreshing and empowering.

Brenda: Several times when reading your rendition I felt so moved by the feminine beauty of your Tao. For example, you interpret Number 61 “Lying Low” as “The polity of greatness/runs downhill like a river to the sea, joining with everything/woman to everything.” This is such a startling definition of greatness. And your vision of Lao Tzu’s ideas of power defies the traditionally masculine definition which is usually about status, conquest, or hierarchy. But your interpretation is “Power is goodness…Power is trust.”

Ursula: You know, the words really come out that way. That’s one of the less obscure passages. It’s almost shocking. Sometimes, of course, Lao Tzu really is talking about a person in power, a ruler, and I play that down because I didn’t figure a whole lot of rulers would be reading it. On the other hand, people in positions of responsibility, such as mothers, might be. And if you want to read the manual for rulers, there is the magnificent Arthur Waley translation that is never going to be equaled for what it does.

Brenda: Yes, a real classic. Give that one to Hillary Clinton, the rest of us will read yours. Another thing that came through very strongly in this rendition, was the humor, your humor, Lao Tzu’s humor, a philosophy of nature and humor. I laughed out loud when I read your note on Number 53 “Insight”: “people wearing ornaments and fancy clothes,/carrying weapons,/drinking a lot and eating a lot,/having a lot of things, a lot of money: shameless thieves.” And your comment was “So much for capitalism.”

Ursula: You know, in general, Lao Tzu seems to be pretty cagey, and a line can mean five or six different things, and then he just comes straight-out and says something, bang! Like that. It took me a bit by surprise.

 

 Is your interest in the  works you translate purely academic do you practice any form of internal or external martial arts?

i do this;)

 For two months I did a standing practice of one exercise for 4- 7 hours per day.   My realization was, the counting is to occupy the  linear( so it will not interfere) mind while the real  Alchemy starts gaining traction.  What freedom to be in eternity and here on earth!. Now as a more seasoned practitioner

thats an amazing effort. was there a specific event in  your life that prompted you to practice with such dedication?

 

I am fascinated by your limerick about Master Lu. Is it a simple fun jingle or does it have an esoteric meaning my western mind cannot unlock?

Oh I am sure you can unlock anything you want;). It was for fun and giggles and also a hint that the verse was not really about time. Pls take a look at all of those 18 verses for context.

 

Even although I was having arguments with Taoist Texts (the sophist) in the past, I have to admit that it is sad seeing him so defeated and writing this kind of bukowskian poem, fortunately English is not my mother tongue, so  the disgusting effect was weak.

Hi;) this here link below will expand your english horizons a bit, my  EFL friend

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerick_%28poetry%29

A limerick is a form of poetry,^[1] especially one in five-line anapestic meter with a strict rhyme scheme (AABBA), which is sometimes obscene with humorous intent. The first, second and fifth lines are usually longer than the third and fourth. The oldest attested text in this form is a Latin prayer^[2] by Thomas Aquinas of the 13th century.

The form appeared in England in the early years of the 18th century.^[4] It was popularized by Edward Lear in the 19th century,^[5] although he did not use the term.

The following limerick is of unknown origin:

 

I have to admit that it is sad seeing him so defeated

Yeah me too. Let this appropriately titled song cheer us up

 traditional Chinese culture background.  

There was the Chinese master Lu

Who held the traditional view.

When telling time,

He would always rhyme.

And for some reason add ‘Gate you!’.

1. 卯酉门中作用时，       This is the time of work by the Mao-You gate,

 

First line: Taoist Texts lost the meaning of Mao-You.  Here, the meaning of Mao-You is practice time: morning 5-7am and evening 5-7pm.  This is the first advice from Master Lü Dongbin to internal cultivators. 

Yes. Thats why he says 'the gate'. Thats what ppl say when they tell time. They say morning 5-7am and evening 5-7pm and dont forget the gate.

.  But, I am sorry to say that the commentary as shown above (last post) suggests that Taoist Texts did not understand the meaning of the poem, “Bathing,” at all. 

Well played Xuanming. Well played.

forgot to add that this poem is a part of a 18 verse cycle The Old Fisherman

渔父词一十八首·沐浴 Bathing

Translation by Taoist Texts

 

卯酉门中作用时，赤龙时蘸玉清池。


云薄薄，雨微微，看取妖容露雪肌。

 

This is the time of work by the Mao-You gate,

The scarlet dragon immerses in the Pool of Clean Jade.

Thinly-thin are the clouds, tiny-tiny it rained,

Take a look at the charming appearance of the snow-white skin unveiled.

___________________________________________________________________

 

.....  It would be great if you would write a commentary regarding the meaning of this poem

The meaning is twofold: one is false but practical; the other is true but useless;). Both are readily available on the internet.

Red Dragon is a name for the tongue. The tongue is the tool by which the

saliva is produced and therefore functions as the source of good health.  

tongue around the inside of the mouth.

Rouse and rinse means to gather the saliva in the mouth. The qi is stimu-

lated during the in and out motions of rinsing. Thirty-six is the number of

revolutions. This procedure in effect causes the circulation and stimulation

of qi so that it can penetrate deeply.

This is false but hey, everyone can do it and there is no harm in it.

 If then the true seed is born, and the right method applied in order to melt and mix it, and in that way to create the Elixir of Life, then one goes through the pass. The embryo, which must be developed by the work of warming, nourishing, bathing, and washing, is formed. 

This is true, but since no one can do it its useless, and worse, those who seek live teachers to learn how to do this will be had by the said teachers.

But its all in good fun.  Cheers!

Once again, poem four “Taming the Dragon” has nothing to do with the physical elimination of the menses, from the original Chinese poem, if you read the book and the content of the poem carefully.

 

Alrighty then;)

The second phrase says: The red dragon, who often dips into the clear jade pond.  Do you understand the meaning of the red dragon in this poem? 

Yes. Yes I do.

Can you help me to complete the translation of this poem?    

I will be honored to.

渔父词一十八首·沐浴 Bathing

卯酉门中作用时，赤龙时蘸玉清池。

云薄薄，雨微微，看取妖容露雪肌。

This is the time of work by the Mao-You gate,

The scarlet dragon immerses in the Pool of Clean Jade.

Thinly-thin are the clouds, tiny-tiny it rained,

Take a look at the charming appearance of the snow-white skin unveiled.

Could you please expound on that?

well traditionally any spiritual teaching was based on rejection of human desires. The outer dimension of that is practical: if you eat tasty food, you will overeat, if you overeat you will be sluggish and sleepy, the tasty  food will trigger lust and desire for other indulgences like alcohol, entertainment, companionship. There will be no time nor energy nor inclination  for training.

The internal dimension is that tasty food will disturb your mind so your training will fail. The traditional approach is to just eat something bland 'to paste up the mouth' as they say, to keep the hunger at bay forgetting about the food till tomorrow noon. If you keep up this lifestyle the training will progress smoothly.

also

The roots of totalitarianism are in religion

hmmm.... in where the roots of religion are then?

I am surprised to read the statement in Hobo’s post: “The author mainly keeps missing the point wildly, like e.g  on the link above she pontificates for an entire page on the 'taming the dragon' without ever mentioning that it specifically refers to  the physical elimination of the menses.”

 

Poem four “Taming the Dragon” has nothing to do with the physical elimination of the menses from the original Chinese poem.  

HI;)

So far I cannot feel any obvious physical benefits apart from perhaps increased energy, although one interesting thing that I have been experimenting with over the last year I can only describe as using this energy to move the body, its very difficult to describe... but I'll try... because I'm sure many of you can do this...

probably not that many;)

 arm for example I can just picture the arm moving and it does... only for simple movements, such as extending the arm straight forward.

As I said its difficult to describe, but really I'm just searching for others who practice this, I suppose I'm looking for what steps to take next. As I said I don't follow any particular teaching I just experiment on my own..

 

Any comments/ advice on where to go with this is welcome and appreciated.

For someone who wants to progress in the direction of internal martial arts there are only 2 non-fantasy options: 1 to practice zhan zhuang and see how the yiquan folk use that for combat, that's truncated internal MA, one can do that on his own; or 2. to try and discover the dantian rotation , which what the real IMA is all about, this is very difficult to do, almost impossible really.

I've heard that following a bland diet has some interesting benefits. I've heard this mainly from the 

qigong/ martial arts side but I really can't find information on this anywhere. If anyone 

on this forum has knowledge about why the bland diet has benefits 

修行人听予劝，细斋食不可美又美，更何须异馔多般，但一味而已。

恬淡中常遂意，万神畅调姹婴欢喜，得自然结就金丹，占蓬瀛仙位。

The practicing folk please listen to this kind admonition of mine,

Your subtle vegetarian food must not be plied with a beautiful taste upon taste.

Why should there be many different dishes supplied?

On the contrary keep it one-flavored and chaste.

Peace and blandness will constantly enter your heart,

10 000 spirits at ease, happy maiden and child,

On its own the golden cinnabar will incept,

On the isle of Peng-Yin will you saintly position accept.

Also normal ppl have their moments when shen or atman are active

the Taoist concept of shen ,(parallel to Hindu Atman).....in Taoism the shen is identical with tao , or in west terms , the divine soul is identical with god

What you are saying is that a Atman (an absolute) for no reason flips from active to passive. That quality would make it not an Absolute. While you are correct in your hunch

 that there is a connection between the man and universe 

its not shen. the shen ironically is the disconnector. the texts say so. the texts also explicitly id the connection.

synchronicity is happening constantly to those who are in shen stage, or atman stage.

why it happens occasionally to normal ppl then ?

in wiki on atman "realize that one's true self (Ātman) is identical with the transcendent self Brahman." or in Taoism the shen is identical with tao , or in west terms , the divine soul is identical with god. this is the cause of synchronicity.

if that was the case, the synchronicity would be happening constantly. which it does not. or, in other words - before debunking Jung, pls think a little.

Carl jung failed to understand the Taoist concept of empty mind and replaced it with the concept of self.in jung self everything unite, in Taoist void mind all concept vanish. Jung didn't understand the Taoist concept of shen ,(parallel to Hindu Atman) that is connection between the man and universe ,and shen is causing synchronization.

all the time?

 - but I think a lot of times the groupies are asking to be used.  

exactly, most of them. the minority thou hopes to grow thru the ranks and get a few RRoyces for themselves. both categories totally deserve what they get.

. Known as the "Sleeping Immortal" he is also credited with using and creating sleeping qigong methods of internal alchemical cultivation. The story goes that Chen Tuan