Nungali

Here is how you adapt spirituality to protect land, crops and people without 'justified violence'. Westerner : "But surely you must have other exceptions of when you are allowed to kill, what if invades come and try to steal your food, women and children?' Islander; "We have a secret place we go to and hide that I cant even tell you about, some men stay." Westerner; " Ah! The warriors?" Islander; "We have no warriors, they are spirit men. When the war canoes came, the last ones, a very long time ago , we leave some food and water on the beach, behind the beach on the way to the village is the ancestor ground, if they can get through that and get near the village then, the spirit men have all sorts of tricks hidden around, things appear and disappear, strange shapes and noises, and at night it works even better as the war canoes prefer to come at night . They usually just run away. "Sometimes for fun , we do that at night time to make the children laugh."

" Monks wouldn't want to fight without a spiritual side to the art, without it it just becomes violence " Without it , it does not become justified violence

Indian and Celtic DNA have a root in P.I.E. DNA, but if it is later differentiated DNA than that is interesting. but ... erggg too off topic Witches ? Huh? what about the origins of the Phrygian cap, especially the early forms of Mithras, pre-Roman and Greek in the form of Mitra , one of the original ‘Yazatas’ (angels or graceful emenations) of the Zoroastrian Ahura Mazda who … damn! Too off topic … Edit " forgot to add that there are stories that the 'Older Masters' that influenced Tibet came from the West, in Iran that they came from the east. other stories and theories that monotheism originated from Zoroastrianism via proto P.I.E. religion via PIE migration from Russia bringing Siberian shamanism (to where monotheism is 'quantum' tracked). Also their could be links to this with Bonn of Tibetan Shamanism and it might all link back to Mongolia ... nice little feedback loop for the Chinese ... and actually links further back to the Gobi Desert ... which wasn't always a desert ( hint hint)

Ha! 'New Dawn' magazine strikes again. IMO a mix of Anthropological ideas based on modern finds and mumbo-jumbo. My mix of Anthropology and mumbo-jumbo is quiet different and backed up by archaeology... as far as back as we have evidence and then we go to other records ... not the writings of Blavatsky ... which is based on evidence that is far too late but the upon the earliest records we have from the earliest Vedas, the Avestas (which both target the similar 'Homeland' Airyana Vaeja), the Iranian Bundahishn and The Shahnameh- Book of Kings, ( an epic composed by the Iranian poet Hakim Abul-Qasim Mansur later known as Ferdowsi Tusi, and completed around 1010 CE. - Ferdowsi means 'from paradise', and is derived from the name Ferdous {cf. Avestan pairi-daeza, later para-diz then par-des or par-dos, arabized to fer-dos. Tusi means 'from Tus'. In the poet's case, the name Ferdowsi Tusi became a name and a title: The Tusi Poet from Paradise. } ) This targets the original concept of ‘paradise,’ the root concept of the Garden of Eden in Levantine religion, Shamballah in Buddhism and Shangri-La in the west, in the upper north east reaches of Tajikistan (and Kyrgyzstan) where there are a series of valleys that run up into the mountains south of the main silk root ( a bit below them … even on a modern satellite map, one with common sense {the most uncommon of human traits } ) one can see what went on by observing the landform. Nearby is the Pamir region, which has the geological landforms as depicted (in symbolic form) in traditional Buddhist paintings of Shambalah. This is also the lost homeland described in the Vedas (the ‘lost ‘ sacred preparation of Soma can be bought as a quick hit draught in any market place in Tajikistan. It is based on ‘Ephedera’ , ephedrine - which might explain some of Indra’s ‘exploits’ – “He of 1000 testicles” … talk about testosterone overload! And mix that with a speed-freak warlord , no wonder the socially generous rulers of ‘Asuras’ had a problem with the 'Devas', the 'Asuras' were known as not only having a physical ‘paradise’ but one of the most progressive, fair and advanced government yet to be seen, one of the reason people flocked to this empire). These people, even before then, when they were one people, where travelling into China long before the date of those mummies. Even much later during the revamping and redefining that ‘Zoroaster’ bought to the old religion, there are Zoroastrian archaeological sites well into China (the P.I.E. people were the first to domesticate the horse). And much further east into China are old Manichean sites as well (which can be seen as a blend of Avestan and various Chinese philosophies and religious practice) . Not much to do with Kung-fu is it? All I can add is that the spread and influence of martial arts, kung-fu or whatever one wants to term it, is a hodge-podge of indigenous development , trade influence and indigenous modifications going back to ...... And ‘Europeans’ , Aryans, and others have been going back and forth to China for a long time … it is even possible that there were links in the P.I.E. peoples hypothesised Urheimat of the south east Russian Steppe into Mongolia. Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and western Chinese Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region: http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/maps/airyana.htm This page might be helpful too’ http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/maps/index.htm ....

Excellent on a quick view - dying to read now but also busy ... promised myself to weed the lettuce patch.

For 'meditation' perhaps. For years (and sometimes out of nostalgia or for a 'top up' lately) I did meditation at midnight, also dawn, midday and sunset - the 4 'stations of the Sun'. After a time of constant practice it really changes one headspace as it turns out that one of those is going to interrupt the sleep cycle ... and that seemed a crucial part of the meditation ... and one with a 'hidden' in built design ... to interrupt the sleep cycle - a phase of loosing consciousness in sleep ...' ignorance cycle' - a phase of losing consciousness while awake (that is, losing 'higher consciousness and awareness' while walking around as an awake robotoid) and 'death cycle' (loosing consciousness and awareness imprinted on 'that which survives') ie, practice for dying. Just staying up late to midnight wont do that (except with this meditation if you do that, chances are you will have to break sleep cycle at dawn - sneaky! Whoever thought THAT up ) Favourite training time though ... just after dawn! I used to love swinging a Bo in the park by the river and looking upstream to the mountains ... or doing Ecu on the beach at dawn ... aaah! those were the days!

... . OOOooo ! was it still smokable (ha that freaked out spell check check)? If they were Romans it was probably an expedition to Bactria that went too far north (too stoned, got lost?). On a more serious note; If they were ‘celtic’, I am confused ( have you got a link to that info I want to check it out). If they were P.I.E.’s they may have come from the nearby Aryan homelands of Airyana Vaeja. http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/aryans/location.htm People got from Africa into China somehow, the silk root (check maps on above site) looks like the obvious route, so it goes way back … WAAAAY back ... before there was silk. I am a strong advocate that Martial arts started in Africa .

Hey guys ... I confess near total ignorance of the subject but ... errrmmmmm .... When those soft and fabby monks were sitting around doing nothing but meditating and needing defence of their crops and food stores ... who were they defending them from ... bandits with no martial skills or weapons? No local warloards around with martial skills and weapons? No army? I better go back and re-read the first post to see exactly what is being talked about here. (It reminds me about the conversation where Okinawan Martial Arts were said to have an origin in Chinese arts ...what, Okinawa was total utopia before the Chinese came along? Chinese arts had a big LATER INFLUENCE in Okinawa ... but still, today Okinawan arts are very different (compare White Crane form and 'Hakatsuru' similar but distinctly different)

Their brains and minds seem bigger than ours ... I believe their intelligence was ... and the ones I meet today still seem to have it. - Poor old white fellas ! Well, there ARE smaller human-ish little guys that leave footprints in the sand around the fire in my teachers Gunya but these little people don't fit into an Anthropological discussion ... more of a Shamanic one. Hominids, I use in the restricted sense of the term … in that 'we' are the only hominids left ... there used to be heaps of hominid species. Your mention of coffee and Java is interesting as these ..('hold on to your hats ... I am about to go all non post-modernist / 'racist' here ) Negrito types of Australoid are the same type as (but a type variation of) the Tasmanian Aboriginal, Negrito people of New Guinea and their 'relatives' are throughout south east Asia including Java. Another type of Australian ( with a larger range of variation within the type - similar to the large range the Caucasian exhibits i.e. some can be blonde and have green eyes {stunningly beautiful people IMO } ) has roots going back up through the to the north west of Australia (but their homeland is now under the Arafura Sea on a large plane that was covered with sea when the last ice age ended) across the then narrow divide into south east Asia, particularly the Andaman Islands (which up until about 1950 white people didn't set foot on ... a cultural preserve ... and also relating to the fact that when some Anthropologists tried to land there in a boat one got a bow-fired spear through his chest ... now it’s covered in resorts ), a tiny pocket in India and slightly larger one in Sri Lanka. They appear to have been settled in India for some time - the original Australoid homeland, and perhaps were driven out or moved out due to Mongoloid expansion from the north and east and Pre Proto-Indo-European (PIE) expansion in from the north West ( through the Hindu Kush) or around the coast from the west (at the time of the first phase expansion of the pre PIE people, when they came into the Nile Valley (the Ancient Egyptians were not Africans). There is another type that has very 'black' Indigo coloured skin. Of course since these waves of migrations into Australia since the end of the ice age (and possibly after around 6000 BC when the dingo first appears in the fossil record ... whose closest relative is the wild dog of India ... but that is a bit of an unexplained mystery how Indian Australoids got here around 6000 BC) there has been much cross breeding and many types generated ( there used to be at least 600 different cultural / language groups). There are two types of desert people, one came from the north west across the 'top end', all the way around, but not Tasmania later than that, around the bottom and up into the dessert, following the rivers. The other desert people, came looong ago straight in from the north west down into the desert. Of course, they think 'we' are nuts! "Look at that fellah coming by, he's an inland desert man ... now that's black! He nearly purple ... strong juju that fellah ... he makes ME look white ... don't look at him as he passes." < eyes down … he passes … eyes up> “and white fellas say we are all one Aboriginie ?” <shakes his head> THEY know they are not all one people. They know they are one people spiritually, in the ‘dreaming jig-saw puzzle of Australian native spirituality’ (my term, it isn’t a puzzle for them ), they are all one people in a modern social/political context and hence lies the issue – political intrusion into Anthropology. Uncle Link, a Budjalung ( central east coast) Elder told me this story; There was a big gathering at Uluru in the heartland, people came from all over, including OS (native American, Inuit, Maori, etc). The local Elders organised things when they got there. One of the first things they did was put people in groups. Many where surprised that they made several different groups of people within the Australian Aboriginals. Some people were a bit upset as all the people that came in the bus with Uncle Link thought they would be together. He got moved into a group of people, some he knew where his relatives at Uluru but some he didn’t recognise, they examined him and told him who his parents and grandparents where, even though they hadn’t met him before … then they sub-grouped that group … people got to know each other and link up with previously unknown distant relatives after they talked and compared linage (and song-lines) etc. That was the point of the exercise. But link said one of the boys protested, he was being put in with a group of ‘strangers’ , the elders said, no, that is where you belong, the boy said, no, you made a mistake, you don’t understand, I am not Aboriginal, I am with Billy, over there, I am his mate from school, I just came with him for the trip … I am not Aboriginal, I am Indian. The Elders say, that’s right and this is where you belong. Uncle Link, who knows nothing of Anthropology said he thought the Elders had made a mistake, but when he looked closely he realised the boy looked EXACTLY like some of the Australian Aboriginals in that group, Some elders from that group sat the boy down and had a talk with him. I would have liked to have heard THAT conversation!

What a mess that Nungali made of that article ... ... he must have done it late at night, Surprised I didn't get down here and find :What on earth are YOU talking about I had to re-edit ...NOW it makes better sense.

Yep .... even in Australia, they were built by Chinese miners out of mining tailings. Oh! Where are those? What story? I know that some think part of the story of how they moved giant stone blocks up ramps and got them in place is hidden ... but I know some of that story and it isn't that hidden. Like lots of things in ancient Egypt ... you can see it if you look at it the right way

What on earth (on EARTH now ) is a human - oid ? I guess you mean human like? But not human (homo sapiens). I would have said homo - nid. The difference? hominid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae humanoid http://www.humanoid.nl/

There was an equation in there ??? And damn! I missed the pie too.

Interesting. One view is variations of types OF species; the other view is variation IN types OF ONE species. It is far from Homo sapiens ... yet IMO Homo sapiens exhibit variations in types that can appear as variations in species. I did some Anthropology at Sydney Uni. Even waaaay back then the dominant idea was variation OF different species. I presented a different case, saying that examples put forward of different species could just be types of A species with a large variation. To demonstrate this I took a range of skull profile outlines with the supposed facial profile drawn over them and some related classic examples of artistic reconstructions. And swapped them around (hee he), most of the swapped profiles were not detected. In the artistic reconstructions I pointed out that an early dated ‘primitive’ skull mock up was depicted in rough and dirty clothes , had big floppy earlobes (earlobes constructed from putting together cranial fragments, jawbone sections and some teeth ?) a dull facial expression and eyes. The Cro-Magnon skull make up was like a Norse God … peering out to the horizon, proud pose, looking good enough to marry your daughter. What gives? Then I showed a ‘primitive’ skull outline … quiet weird actually, big protruding jaw, very large brow, lumpy head, with a facial profile of a Neanderthal. When I was asked what the point of that was I then showed that the ‘primitive’ profile was actually based on a profile photograph of my current work supervisor’s head (he was a weird looking guy!). I backed it up with some Anthropologist’s opinion that if one dressed up a Neanderthal in a suit and gave them a shave and haircut and put them on a busy bus no one would notice. Anyway, it didn’t go down very good, hardly got any marks. But later that view gained ground. The article seems swayed to that opinion, the bulk of it is variation within A species … the second view that comes in at the end is why can’t it be all different species? There are some weird ‘one-offs’ out there too, even today. The field isn’t immune from controversy and fakes either. A similar battle seems underway in Australian anthropology; except it is on a different scale but it shows an inverse development as well. The scale is variation within species type. The type is Homo sapiens and, specifically the Australian Aboriginals. Basically, for many valid reasons, and since the beginning of the anthropological study of the Australian Aboriginals, many types were classified, documented researched and analysed. There was considered a wide range of different types. Now, the post-modernist curriculum demands the theory view change to all one type, but with great variation. Years of research and theory and valid anthropological studies and researchers are not being considered as they are considered ‘old-fashioned’ … and dare I say it, ‘politically incorrect’. Some post-modernist ‘theorist’ looks at different skulls and declare; they look pretty much the same to me. Before we know it they are saying there were no north-east coastal rainforest ‘pygmy aboriginals’; the old photos don’t give the right view point and are deceptive; their height is reckoned by measurement related to near-by palm leaves on their hut roof and they can have different lengths … well what about that anthropologist looming over them in the other photo? Oh, there are only a few of them … probably just a small family ??? There IS NO Negrito ! Outrageous! Especially since then I have actually met one of them … a lovely chap, he was in a rock band! We talked about it and he was of course outraged that his people had been classified as non-existent. He was compliant to examination (he offered it actually, “Go on bro’ check me out.”) He wasn’t just a light built guy, he was sooo small, the skeletal structure as well, but quiet well-muscled and proportioned. That’s what they are teaching in education programmes nowadays and such is the world of ‘Anthropology’ one might encounter if they enrol in certain courses . I know what is behind it, but I have no idea about the political motivations within palaeontology though. Pygmy family next to palm leave hut; http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/images/Untitled2.jpg Pygmy family next to anthropologist; http://archive.4chon.net/new/2898297/thumb_1367853578241.png

You might enjoy ''A History of Ancient Egypt. From the First Farmers to the Great Pyramid.' - John Romer for an open and academic approach. 'The Riddle of the Pyramids' - Kurt Mendelssohn - from a sensible professional engineers perspective. [ Sorry no Aliens or levitation or ... but I like that ... I read that and looked into it for years ... YEARS! and came to the conclusion that I think 'overtly esoteric' theories on Egyptian engineering pays a great disservice to these people's innate genius who were much smarter than we are today ... come on Western modern ego ... admit it! ]

Old Ones. Here ya go guys. Found in a creek In Australia. Now ... if you find one of these fellas ... cover him up with a stones and back away slowly ... slowly .... don't turn your back on it .... http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/skull.jpg

I believe the marks and the theory that the marks are geological strata weathering ... they can be seen in other nearby rocks. I also think the head was redone ... I am guessing it was a lions head and some Mad King .... The proportions are all wrong ... pin head. In the Old Kingdom they were pretty good with proportions and accuracy, in fact as soon as metal tools more fully replaced stone quality dropped quiet radically in some circumstances. The much later observing Greeks probably knew as little about it as the pre-Greek, Middle Kingdom Egyptians . (Not that I don't mind 'layering' ... I learnt a lot on the symbolism of the Sphinx... but dare I talk about it ... I know about it, I have the will to talk about it, ... but ... ) Let's dig under it and see what we can find!

New and uneducated I am ...please forgive lack of etiquette but curiosity got the better of me; Why is the pathway to you Deity blocked with the international symbol for 'not allowed' ?

As a youth I worked at Rookwood cemetery - a LARGE one ... it had wild dogs there that lived off offerings left in the Chinese Section. This guy, that was supposed to be showing me how to do the job, gets excited when firecrackers go off; "Chinese for lunch today!" I am young new guy and a bit shocked. He sneaks off ... but comes back looking freaked out. "Where's ya lunch'" another worker asks. " Those f***ing dogs saw me and chased me! " "Serves ya right! " from the other. (I did enjoy the occasional waft of incense through the fields - I worked in the 'wild part' ).

Hmmm .... feels like I am carefully wading through a dojo of people scuffling with each other while I try to get to the book shelf on the other wall to look up something. It IS a dojo that is pretty far removed from what you guys seem to be talking about ... but could even be seen as 'descended' from some Chinese forms ... of course , it also has its natural and 'national' forms ( I don't know of any 'pure forms' ). And Sensei did say it is all based on White Crane originally ( his 'top kata' does seem to have some bird like moves in it). I will practice it ... some say it is silly; "That end pose looks like something out of Karate Kid." "No it doesn't ! It doesn't look anything like it! ... " Besides that 'pose' is a coded movement memory , that is just the LAST position I will end up in at the end of a certain technique - you don't expect us to give everything away in a 'public dance' do you? Allow me to demonstrate." <devious grin> ... ... " Owww ... Okay! .... but HEY! Look at that . .. Shiva dancing ! Did your style come from India ? " " I don't think so ... who knows ? ... but keep THAT down in here. " (PS. I only have 2 arms so ....)

My tea ceremony, Bush setting (I prefer large sandstone features around, native trees. including some Banksia) Campfire ( secret ingredients - in the types of woods used ), The Billy; http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Billycan-campfire.jpg Creek water … some smoke twigs and charcoal must end up in the water. Take billy off when boiled and add lots of tea - I prefer an Australian local product like Narada, ‘Billy Tea’ (brand name) is okay but a bit of a cliché IMO . Add lots of thin slices of fresh ginger root. Stir with non-toxic appropriate flavoured twig. Ceramic cup (tradition is enamel cup … usually dull yellow … but this is MY ceremony). Long life milk Raw sugar. Must be slurped … followed by Ahhhh !

That was a looong time ago when that happened ,as I said I don't use that stuff anymore ... no problem , I just don't need it. I remember thinking it was structured backwards ... or something ... should do the stuff in the back first then work forwards? [ Radical trying to remember as I am listening to v.loud King Krimson at the moment ] Old Ones? I am tempted to say: "Ha! Old ones ... You haven't got a clue! Sit out in the desert on top of the oldest regolith in the world (they found a zircon crystal there a similar age to the formation of the moon ... so it was formed when Earth melted and reformed from the collision) spend some time with these fellas that have been living on it (and around other ancient eroded places here with the earths skeleton sticking up through it) for at least the last 40-60,000 years. You look into their eyes and they turn into black far away pools, doorways into places you (and Lovecraft) have never seen. If your lucky they might play some music and sing ... and that blows you straight out the top of the crown chakra ... they know EVERYTHING ... in their own way and form. Delightful chaps on another level." I am tempted to say that ... but I better not. Anyway, here is a little taste (not like being there of course (especially when they are 'doing stuff ' to you at the same time ... those are some WILD 'tracing boards' that go with the chanting.

Yes ... lovely ... the 'other' site seemed to do that automatically ... if any thing it did it all too automatic and sometimes I would just highlight and delete to simplify ... this programme seems similar but set up with reverse options ... or something. Modern technology is my worse subject (aside from beaurocracy administration .... and spelling {where is the abc button} ) ... yet I seem to able to navigate through an Enochian tablet .. curious !? Interesting thing about memory theatre ... hmmm off topic ... can we 'go somewhere' ? I will check ' mind thread'

I used to wake at 4 in the morning on the dot every night ... it was a damp and cold situation in relation to a triangle between liver spleen gall bladder. Yours sounds more 'posative'. I worked night shift in a hospital for a while ... that is an interesting time of night ! Many different things go 'off' at 4am. I am not sure what the underlying external thing is, if there is one .. or if it is all 'internal body clock' ?

Oh! So you actually got the joke about the wanking and ego orgasm at the end ... without watching ... hmmm. I liked this because I lived a similar experience . Except I had to end with "I told you so". If a child has no father and no one else like that in their life ... and decides to call me "daddy" what am I supposed to say? "No! I am not your father ... you have no father .. get out! " ??? NO appreciation ... not even from the now grown up child. What do I care? In the moment of sharing it was a joy. Now is another moment ... with other joys.