Nungali

Make up of the Psyche ; Many cultures have ways of classifying the various ‘levels’ or components that make up the ‘non-material’ nature of Humans . Such models of the psyche have been more popular during times of hermetic revivals or interest , we might find a lot of these have their roots in more ancient beliefs and teachings. I suppose most would be more familiar with these things via their ancient Egyptian concepts ; Ba, Kha, Akh, Ren, Khat, etc. or classifications used in Vedanta , Buddhism, etc. Some interpretations suggest some aspects are developmental and in relationship to the ‘establishment’ of the others - that is they need to be developed in life, or as some here might put it, they need to be ‘cultivated’. Zoroastrianism seems to hold this principle as well. Mainyu is a term mostly translated as ‘spirit’ - generally, that is ; the co-existent dual opposite of physical existence, (Gaetha. - non-physical or non-material existence) that exists side-by-side with physical existence - beyond senses but not ‘feelings’ and intuitions. It is believed human beings are constituted from both the material and spiritual existences but our spirit shapes and determines the nature of our attitudes and mentality. Urvan or Ravan – commonly translated as ‘soul’. Zoroastrians believe all creatures have a soul- they also have laws about animals, which led them to be considered as the first people to instil animal rights. A person's character (and that of their soul) is built on the type of spirit a person chooses and is within that person's control through free will. Types of ‘spirit’ are brilliant, positive, constructive, and beneficent spirit that seeks wisdom ( spenta mainyu ) . A gloomy, negative, destructive, and harmful spirit that wishes to remain ignorant ( angra mainyu ). The fate of the human soul depends on its store of thoughts, words and deeds. The human soul receives in the afterlife what it has given out in this life. The soul creates its heaven or hell, both of which are a state of spiritual existence and not places. They believe that the urvan or soul comes from God. Fravashi - a ‘spiritual component ‘ that resides in all of creation, living and not living, called the fravashi . Sometimes called ‘the divine spark’ . It seems similar to other cultures concepts where there is a divine spark or light of reflection off the ‘central flame’, light or God. It is the essence or seed of soul. Then it is up to the individual how they develop it, as indwells us , in either ‘angra or spenta’ . “ While the urvan is personal, the fravashi is universal. “ This aspect of the fravashi maintains, sustains and helps creation progressively move or evolve towards an ultimate and ideal future existence (individually and socially ) - a strong concept in Zoroastrianism; a returning ‘golden age’ . The fravashi gives a person intuitive access to the moral and ethical laws of Asha, and allows a person to gain insights into the nature of creation through introspection. Khvarenah – is the developmental concept. The khvarenah is the archetype of the person one can grow to if allowed to grow to the limit of her or his capacity in grace, that is, in keeping with the fravashi and thereby in keeping with Divine purpose. In the Avesta, the khvarenah is frequently described as 'Mazda-datem', i.e. God-given or God-gifted. The khvarenah is also a person's higher calling - their meaning in life [the Middle Persian Pahlavi rending of khvarenah is khvesh-kari meaning own-work or own-purpose (in keeping with Divine purpose i.e. the higher calling)]. This concept is like the Thelemic (Crowley) concept of ‘true Will’ ; one’s ‘life work and purpose or ‘Great Work’ . Its obviously lifted from earlier sources. The theory goes ; Every human being is endowed with natural talents that can be harnessed and developed to achieve one's highest potential or one's higher calling [sometimes thought of as one's latent destiny in life] also referred to as one’s ‘genius’. Alternatively, through choice, these talents can be employed to achieve base ambitions. The khvarenah is specific to a person and is different for each person. The term originally seems similar to ‘fravashi’ in that root is about ‘shining lights’ , but through the development of Zoroastrianism during the ‘middle’ period, it seems influenced by, or interpreted in terms of some Greek concepts. Khvarenah is said to relate to the Greek ‘ Tuche ‘, a very distant ancestor of the word “luck”, is a much broader concept than that in the cosmology of Greek antiquity: it essentially means all the forces that bear down on human life but are out of anyone’s control. It is luck, yes, also Fate, but also nature, society, the wrath of the gods, or the weight of historical events in motion. In contrast techne–as opposed to tuche— is used to describe the artefacts of civilisation made by humans . Zoroastrians believe when all human beings realize their calling or full potential in grace, the world will attain - the ultimate and ideal future existence, a heaven on earth. This new society is based on an idea of a past perfection ( from old homeland ‘Airyana Vaeja’ - the best and most advanced place to live {at the time} and a future ‘golden age’ ; ‘Para-diz – where we got the idea of The Garden of Eden (paradise) and the promised ‘New Jerusalem’ when Jesus returns . While to some extent, a person's lot in life is determined by birth and circumstance, a person can find her or his latent khvarenah or calling by envisioning the person one aspires to become in grace, and then taking steps to realize the khvarenah despite daunting obstacles and adversity. In mythology, the khvarenah is like a bird that hovers over a person, and one that can fly away and grace is replaced by evil ambitions. United Fravashi . A person's spiritual components, that is, the person's urvan (soul), mainyu (spirit), fravashi and khvarenah can unite . Eventually, a person with a united fraveshi can evolve to asha (abiding) fravashis . If the spirit, soul and khvarenah are in harmony with asha, they come together to form a united fravashi. If they are not in harmony with asha, then there is separation from the fravashi in this life, and by extension in the after life. The united fravashi of the righteous have the ability to become ‘guardian angels’; “ They, the asha-abiding fravashis, come to assist those who are beneficent and not hurtful or offensive. To them, the fravashis will assuredly come flying like birds well-winged. ( Farvardin Yasht , 13.70) Here are some other snippets of belief; A person's quest for spiritual awareness, growth, or realization is an individual quest. The path to spiritual realization is through an open mind, a good mind, reason, wisdom, goodness, security and serenity. Spiritual awareness and connection comes through introspection, reflection and meditation while reciting a manthra, preferably facing a source of light such as a flame. Spiritual understanding comes from an open mind, listening, and then deciding person by person, each one for herself or himself, that person's individual path to spiritual realization - keeping an open mind and listening does not mean blindly following others or unquestioned faith, Blind faith leads to delusion (Gatha 48.10). Spiritual development comes through possessing the six Amesha Spenta qualities (developing the spirit, mind, body and indeed all aspect of one's life) and simultaneously being in tune with each element of nature, thereby being in harmony with God's work. [ The Amesha Spentas as attributes of God are: Vohu Mano, the high mind (creation was caused by a divine thought) Asha, cosmic order and universal laws Khshathra, dominion Armaiti, equanimity Haurvatat, ultimate wholeness Ameretat, immortality In a further attempt to understand God and how God interfaces with God's creation, the six qualities and attributes, the Amesha Spentas, were thought of as archangels - abstract extensions of God - each associated with an aspect of creation. reflected as attributes or aspirations of humans are ; Vohu Mano in human beings is the good mind. Asha is principled, honest, beneficent, ordered, lawful living - for some, righteousness and piety. Khshathra is having dominion and sovereignty over one's life. Armaiti is serenity. Haurvatat is being holistic and healthy. It is also seeking excellence in all we do. Ameretat is transcending mortal limitations through good health, by handing down the spiritual flame and by building an enduring, undying spirit, ) a united fraveshi ) ] Ushta - One's goal in life. The goal in life is to achieve ushta: abiding spiritual resplendence, happiness, and peace - an individual at peace with oneself and humanity at peace with itself. Spiritual resplendence gives a person the light of wisdom, a sense of spiritual confidence that the path a person has chosen will lead to a meaningful and fulfilling life. It is inner enlightenment of the spiritual self and a beacon that lights the path ahead. As with the Amesha Spentas , ushta is a conceptual word rather than a word with a single meaning. Realization of ushta follows as an outcome of leading a life based on the Amesha Spentas of which two have a special connection: asha and armaiti. While a person's spiritual quest is an individual one, achieving ushta requires living the life of an ashavan - a life of beneficent goodness towards all. One cannot achieve ushta by isolating oneself or being self-centred. A manifestation of abiding peace is serenity or armaiti. Goal of Life - two main principles ; Vahishtem Anghuim and Frasho-Kereri - The Best Existence & An Ideal Future The goal of life on earth is to live the best existence. [Paraphrased sourced and quoted from various sources including Zoroastrian Heritage Institute and Encyclopedia Iranica . ]

... and also ; Destruction of the Achaemenian Avesta by Alexander (330 BCE) Arda Viraf (see above), goes on to state in the Arda Wiraz Namag (Arda Viraf Namah) that Alexander of Macedonia, in 330 BCE, burned the Avestan manuscripts deposited at the royal library at Ishtakhr. Alexander also ordered killed several judges, dasturs, mobeds, herbads (priests) and other upholders of the religion, as well as the competent and wise of the country of Iran (in an attempt to destroy the oral tradition as well). Bundahishn 33.14: "Then, during the reign of Darius son of Darius, the emperor Alexander came to Iranshahr, scurrying from Arum (Europe), killed king Darius, destroyed all the families of rulers, magi, and public men of Iranshahr, extinguished an immense number of sacred fires, seized the commentary (zand) of the Revelation of Mazda-worship, and sent it to Arum, burned the Avesta, and divided Iranshahr among ninety petty rulers." Mahankard (c. 750 CE. Translated from Middle Persian to Arabic): Alexander destroyed the original ancient Persian books after having them translated into Greek. (Other accounts below state that only certain topics/books were translated and the others, e.g. religious, were destroyed without translation.) Ibn Qutayba (d. 889 Arabic): Alexander conquered the kingdom of Iran and burned the books of their religion. Sahristaniha-e Iran (Middle Persian): Alexander destroyed the Avesta which was stored in writing in Samarqand. (We note here that the written Avesta was stored in what may be considered the regional capital of the Eastern Iranian (Persian) Empire. Hamza al-Isfahani, wr. 961 [Eight collated translations of the Middle Persian Khwaday Namag (Khoda Namah also used by Ferdowsi) to Arabic] & supported by the account of Musa ibn Isa al-Kisrawi: Alexander, jealous of the unparalled knowledge of the Persian nation, first translated what he needed from the Persian, then destroyed the rest, killing the Magi too. Although he destroyed their books on religion, he translated their books dealing with philosophy, astrology, medicine, and agriculture from Persian into Greek and Egyptian, which he sent to Alexandria (cf. our page on Ostanes - Persian Sage in Egypt). This account confirms that the Avesta and supporting texts were encyclopaedic in knowledge as further confirmed by the Dinkard's summary of the 21 books of the Avesta. Tansar-Nama (Persian translated from Middle Persian): Alexander destroyed the Avesta. Din Vijirgard (Persian in Pahlavi script): Alexander destroyed the Nasks (Books of the Avesta) except for those concerning medicine and the stars, with he had translated into Roman (i.e. Greek. Post Parthian period, the Persians called Europe 'Rome' since the interface with the Iranian / Persian Empire was the Roman Empire.) [The above list is further catalogued and referenced in The Arabic Hermes: from Pagan Sage to Prophet of Science by Kevin Thomas Van Bladel, pp 33-35.. Also see our page on Ostanes - Persian Sage in Egypt for further citations regarding the preservation and recovery of some texts in Egypt. The first reconstruction - and second compilation took place during Parthian rule.] https://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/scriptures/history.htm#complilation

Through Alexandria . Alexander had just been through Persian Empire and , more importantly , Central Asia and the Persian Satrapies there. There was already a vast and advanced civilisation in Central Asia and it was heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism and its related 'arts' - it had very early developed it own knowledge ( things like astrology1 , medicine,2 etc and was heir to Babylonian knowledge as well ). It played a smaller part in contributing to the Alexandrian Synthesis ( mostly the Greeks, Egyptians, ' , Jews and Syrians ) but did contribute. Also, 'historically' the scholiast of the Alcibiades affirms that Zoroaster left philosophical writings. The Clementine Recognitions assert that books of magic under the title of Zoroaster circulated in large number. Proclus, a Greek philosopher of the fourth century AD, knew of four books on Nature by Zoroaster dedicated to King Cyrus. Hermippus, who lived about 200 BC, wrote a book on the Magi and believed in the Oriental origins of Greek thought. According to Pliny, he "commented upon two million verses left by Zoroaster, besides completing indexes to his several works." 1. http://zoroastrianastrology.blogspot.com.au/p/astronomy.html 2. " In addition, Greek Medicine probably absorbed a lot of elements from the folk medicines of the lands conquered, as well as from Persian and Zoroastrian medicine. " http://www.greekmedicine.net/whos_who/Alexander_the_Great.html Also, for you Michael, you might find this book of interest ; The Art and Science of Healing Since Antiquity https://books.google.com.au/books?id=CYwlUOpimYAC&pg=PA219&lpg=PA219&dq=contribution+of+zoroastrians+to+alexandria&source=bl&ots=XyapuAhHNy&sig=QSDzlNLVw4vcBPEzZ2jEqaHLX3o&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJ7uvguszaAhUEUbwKHXKDCLo4ChDoAQgmMAA#v=onepage&q=contribution of zoroastrians to alexandria&f=false - ( 7 ) and https://makedonia-alexandros.blogspot.com.au/2010/01/alexander-great-and-magi.html

I see ... another straight answer totally relating to my question and the point I made ...

blitzkrieg ... its a German name but an Englishman's concept . Gen. G. F. C. Fuller , he developed it for the British , but, not being at war at the time they didnt want to 'buy' it . So he sold it to the Germans in peace time. An unusual fellow Fuller ; he did paintings like these; and wrote things like this ( with complex internal mathematical codes ) ; https://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib963

More on this later too .... so much of what we call 'the occult' comes from this source . Also we have the Magi . And the contributions to Alexandria. Then the knowledge being transferred to Harran as "Hermetics'. Then the Zoroastrians there convincing the newly arising Muslims and their 'convert or loose your head' that they were 'people of the Book' and could retain their religion. This was accepted (probably mostly due to the enormous potential amount of dimma tax they could then impose on them . Basically this led to Islam adopting hermeticism ( the 'science' of that age ) , and lead to the great age of science in Islam, which eventually went to Europe, fuelled the Renaissance and Enlightenment and eventually the Modern Scientific revolution ! - ore on this later as well .

..... more about this to come in the little article I am working on .... gotta scoot into town for training ( nearly forgot ! ... its Saturday ! )

There is another aspect of it that I consider Taoistic ; its about following your own specific 'way' finding one's individual purpose , or as Crowley put it in his 'philosophy of Thelema' following one's 'True Will' - the idea is, if everyone graduates to their own true purpose and inner fulfilment we have a better society with little regulation needed and less restrictions and laws and the freedom for each to express their genius. - I know when I follow, and act according to my own True Will - my essential nature , things seem to naturally fall into place for me . There are two similar concepts in Zoroastrianism ( perhaps that is where Crowley lifted it from ? ) ; the 'True Will' concept is like the concept of the Khvarenah in Zoroastrianism ( an individualised archetype one can develop into, developing one's highest potential and capacity ). The other ; the 'better society' model is a central ideal of Zoroastrianism ; it was and will be , that is, they believed they lived in an original paradise at Airyana Vaeja but the climate changed and leaders fell from grace and the usual wars and battles with others. They believe they will get it back in some type of Golden Age to come when the teachings about behaviour and society are implemented. It centres around a concept of 'Para - diz ' - where we get our term 'paradise' from , a concept some suggest was the root of the Garden of Eden story developed from the Aryana Vaeja story. And the Paradise to come is represented by the establishment of the 'New Jerusalem' when Jesus returns.

Flattery ... or witnessing the unusual . I had an amusing incident at home once ; the inside fire was well alight , a bit overcast outside, I have windows on the cabin that are hinged vertically, so open sideways. Outside the window is a bush, about shoulder height. The window must have been open at the exact angle and I was sitting in the right place as the window was reflecting back to me the interior of the cabin, but being darker inside than out nothing was reflected except the flames of the fire, which was lined up right in front of the bush behind the window . I remember seeing it out the corner of my eye while engrossed in reading ... 'A fire ! ? Outside ! ? The bush was burning .... yet it was not burning ! It took me a moment to realise what I was seeing . " I saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. So I thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up.” 4 When the Lord saw that I had gone over to look, God called to me from within the bush, “Nungali Nungali!” And I said, “Here I am.” 5 “Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” 6 Then he said, “I am the God of your father,[a] the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Nungali hid his face, because he realised he had smoked too much 'burning bush' himself that morning .

Noooooooooo ...... ! I'm waiting for it .....

You should really read your own links when you make stuff up " Hasidic thought draws heavily on Lurianic Kabbalah, and, to an extent, is a popularization of it. " https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasidic_Judaism And I am sure a real hasidic jew could come up with a better traditional reference than Wikipedia ? AND if you are not into Kabbalah ... what was all that number and letter stuff you have posting for the last few months, hmmmmmm ? ...

I will post this here for context (in relation to future posts ). c. 3200 BC: Sumerian cuneiform writing system. 3200 BC: Newgrange built in Ireland. 3200 BC: Cycladic culture in Greece 3200 BC: Rise of Proto-Elamite Civilization in Iran 3100 BC: First dynasty of Egypt 3000 BC: Jiroft civilization begins in Iran 3000 BC: First known use of papyrus by Egyptians 2800 BC: Kot Diji phase of the Indus Valley Civilization begins 2800 BC: Longshan culture in China 2700 BC: Minoan Civilization ancient palace city Knossos reach 80,000 inhabitants 2700 BC: Rise of Elam in Iran 2700 BC: The Old Kingdom begins in Egypt 2600 BC: Oldest known surviving literature: Sumerian texts from Abu Salabikh, including the Instructions of Shuruppak and the Kesh temple hymn. 2600 BC: Mature Harappan phase of the Indus Valley civilization (in present-day Pakistan and India) begins 2600 BC: Emergence of Maya culture in the Yucatán Peninsula 2560 BC: King Khufu completes the Great Pyramid of Giza. 2334 or 2270 BC: Akkadian Empire is founded, dating depends upon whether the Middle chronology or the Short chronology is used. 2200-2100 BC: 4.2 kiloyear event: a severe aridification phase, likely connected to a Bond event, which was registered throughout most North Africa, Middle East and continental North America. Related droughts very likely caused the collapse of the Old Kingdom in Egypt and of the Akkadian Empire in Mesopotamia. 2200 BC: completion of Stonehenge. 2000 BC: Domestication of the horse 1800 BC: alphabetic writing emerges 1780 BC: Oldest Record of Hammurabi's Code. 1700 BC: Indus Valley Civilization comes to an end but is continued by the Cemetery H culture; 1600 BC: Mycenaean Greece 1600 BC: The beginning of Shang Dynasty in China, evidence of a fully developed Chinese writing system 1600 BC: Beginning of Hittite dominance of the Eastern Mediterranean region 1500 BC: Composition of the Rigveda is completed 1500 BC earliest date for Proto Indo - Iranian religion. 1500 - 1000 BC earliest date for Zoroaster 1 1600 BC: Beginning of Hittite dominance of the Eastern Mediterranean region 1100 BC: Use of Iron spreads. 890 BC: Approximate date for the composition of the Iliad and the Odyssey 800 BC: Rise of Greek city-states 650BC - 522 BC latest date for Zoroaster 2 550 BC First dynasty of Persian Empire ( Archaemenid ) . 1. Some scholars[8] such as Mary Boyce (who dated Zoroaster to somewhere between 1700–1000 BCE) used linguistic and socio-cultural evidence to place Zoroaster between 1500 and 1000 BCE (or 1200 and 900 BCE).[7][24] The basis of this theory is primarily proposed on linguistic similarities between the Old Avestan language of the Zoroastrian Gathas and the Sanskrit of the Rigveda (c. 1700–1100 BCE), a collection of early Vedic hymns. Both texts are considered to have a common archaic Indo-Iranian origin. The Gathas portray an ancient Stone-Bronze Age bipartite society of warrior-herdsmen and priests (compared to Bronze tripartite society; some conjecture that it depicts the Yaz culture[25]), and thus it is implausible that the Gathas and Rigveda could have been composed more than a few centuries apart. These scholars suggest that Zoroaster lived in an isolated tribe or composed the Gathas before the 1200–1000 BCE migration by the Iranians from the steppe to the Iranian Plateau.[6][26][7][27][28] The shortfall of the argument is the vague comparison, and the archaic language of Gathas does not necessarily indicate time difference.[5][23] 2. Other scholars[8] propose a period between 7th and 6th century, for example, c. 650–600 BCE or 559–522 BCE.[23][24] The latest possible date is the mid 6th century, at the time of Achaemenid Empire's Darius I, or his predecessor Cyrus the Great. This date gains credence mainly on the thesis that certain figures must be based on historical facts,[24] thus some have related the mythical Vishtaspa with Darius I's father Vishtaspa (or Hystaspes in Greek) with the account on Zoroasters life. However, in the Avesta it should not be ignored that Vishtaspa's son became the ruler of the Persian Empire, Darius I would not ignore to include his patron-father in the Behistun Inscription. A different proposed conclusion is that Darius I's father was named in honor of the Zoroastrian patron, indicating possible Zoroastrian faith by Arsames.[29] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster

Wow ! That second one really looks like my bed sheet !

Its my bedsheets ... after that redhead stayed over last weekend

If Eve was a Jew ... then we all are

yeah ... but I grew up and dreamed about these guys version (and the dream came true ! )

also, being originally an oral tradition ... who knows when that started ? The 'Pishdadian Era' is very interesting . but pre-historical and perhaps speculative ? https://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/legendary/index.htm Even in pre historical ancient times they seemed to know about lands from Indus valley all the way over to Anatolia ... but not Mesopotamia , that is , apparently not south of the Zargos (until Persua emerged ) .

By the way, I have a few Israeli friends both Jewish and non- Jewish - one heavily into Kabbalah , and I find our levels of logic rather similar . You need to make up some other excuses

Except I do not have 'west logic' . Shall I start putting up links where other Jews say this theory is rubbish ? Does your 'eastern logic' say that other Jews, Rabbis , Israelis affirm that ancient Jews were Bedouin ? Thats a really pathetic attempt at justifying your personal and skewif 'number philosophy' (which isnt even good in an 'eastern mindset' ) Even a 'western logic' person knows that if anything they consider the Bedouin as descendants of ancient Jews - not the other way around as you are somehow trying to demonstrate. Maybe less 'Kabbalah' and a bit more Wiki ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_tribes_of_Arabia

I hope you understand why that link talks about this within the context of literary criticism ? Then you might understand the responses (or lack of them ) better . Hint - this is a discussion board not a blog page .

Dude ! There isnt much point removing it .... especially after its been quoted

.. Hang on ... do you mean Zeus and Jupiter ... or Pluto and Hades ?

Also 'Zardusht' I think is another version. One thing that arises in in depth study is the uncertainty of the dating . https://www.jstor.org/stable/615820?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents ... and the general articles like Wiki on dating . (my vies is that he was a reformer of an earlier 'Zoroastrian like ' religion (and this was a reformation of a similar earlier 'Aryan religion' . ) so elements of both original and reformation get confused and re-dated. Also the phenomenal amount of lost or destroyed records ; Alexander and the Islamic/Arab invasion - about 90% of what they had ... lost . Most of their record is 'mytho-scriptual' it ends before history ... then there is a giant gap in the record (possibly war or disruption with other Indo-Iranian Aryans that did not accept Zoroastrianism ). The record resumes with early history of Assyrians who first reported 'Parsa or Parsua ' (later Persians ) who were emerging out of the Zargos Mts and moving into Media plains and lowlands . (Eventually the people to the east of Assyria banded together against Assyrian raids and warfare, Parsa got the upper hand, eventually taking over the Medians and Persia 'Empire' came into existence that extolled many Zoroastrian principles ( like allowing the conquered people to have their own religions , supporting and building their temples, releasing the Jews from captivity .... all smart moves to make for a stable empire. ) ... Aside ; this supposedly goes back to the old pre historical principle of Zoroastrian 'good kingship' which supposedly made their first centre or 'homeland' - Aryana Vaeja one of the best places to live . We also have there, beginnings of a 4 fold 'caste system' with them as well, but more like a system of 'trades and occupations' . I was recently reading where Ahura Mazda supposedly represented some wise ancient king that gave out teachings, thats why such principles were embedded so strongly in the culture. One never knows perhaps the 'shining radiant being'' that communicated all this too him was a metaphorical flattery ?