Nungali

'During that time' was before the Romans ever existed ! That was already explained to you , dont you even read people's responses to you ? And dont respond to this as I will not interact with you more here , as its clear you want to do in this thread , what you have done in other threads on Daobums .... whatever your motivations are for that !

Those last two paragraphs I find very interesting . Pressed for time now, I hope to add more later .

Supposedly it is a non traditional system , based on efficacy of results, eclectic , and personalized . Does this not make virtually every modern practicing magician a Chaos magician ? Unless they are some rigidly practicing following by rote some medieval manuscript ... and having the mind set to go along with that . The definition seems to favor Spare yet divorce Crowley ??? He certainly bent the traditions , threw out a lot of stuff he considered 'non - working' or based on false premises ( although experimented with traditional stuff ) , was certainly and his system was certainly eclectic .... widely eclectic. And of course highly personalized ... extremely so .... even to the extent that he wrote about that , encouraged people to develop their own personalized system from varied sources ... to the extent that he threatened them against copying his personalizations , saying it would backfire on them and they might take on his worse qualities if they did such 'imitation ' . Even the staid Goldern Dawn made such innovations . So is Chaos magic really a 'thing' .... or mostly a designation put onto recent magic that is somewhat fashionable and cool ? if it isnt ... what system of modern magick is not Chaos magick ?

Noooo ..... you be mixed up with 'tow rope ' ; ;

< sniff sniff > ... I smell something suspect here . I did enjoy reading it but then decided to check one random statement - the claim about what Erwin Schrodinger said ; '' "The total number of minds in the universe is one. In fact, consciousness is a singularity phasing within all beings." - who said this ? AI says Schrodinger . But if you put the question the other way around and ask if Schrodinger actually did say it ? ''No, the exact quote is not from Erwin Schrödinger, although he did write similar ideas in his philosophical essays, particularly Mind and Matter. He wrote, "The total number of minds in the universe is one" and that "consciousness is never experienced in the plural, only in the singular". However, the popular version includes the phrase "In fact, consciousness is a singularity phasing within all beings," which is not a direct quote. '' ... 'cause there aint no such thing as a 'singularity phasing ' or the person who made the quote up used bad punctuation https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/47487/did-erwin-schrödinger-say-there-is-only-one-mind-in-the-universe I found the passage in his writing that relates to this, in a way ... although it does not say this - he also said ''This is religion not science . '' (he was an Advaita Hindu ) - I wont be checking the rest .... a shame the author didnt do more research (it took me 12 seconds to check ) because now his whole article is suspect .

Ahhhh ... better !

Sorry , that didnt work either , it wanted to direct me to a 'chrome webstore to extend your connection ' and agree to .... well that wasn't clear . Why dont you just tell me what the ultimate nature of reality is ?

If it can be anything ...... how can I be wrong about what it might be ?

One end .... the other end ..... and the stuff in the middle

according to your link .... the ultimate nature of reality requires a facebook registration and log in

Crowley advocated it as a remedy to 'spiritual pride' ; AI Overview Aleister Crowley wrote that laughter is a remedy against spiritual pride because the "bitter earnestness of the man amid the grim humour" of the world is mocking and that "the Powers of Good themselves seem to indulge" in it . He believed that the "irony of the whole strife" could be seen through the mockery, making it a useful tool against spiritual pride. The mockery and the irony in life are fascinating aspects of the human experience, according to Crowley. He believed that these feelings can be overwhelming and that laughter is a necessary tool to keep things in perspective, particularly when dealing with spiritual matters. He noted that a certain "grim humour" or "cacchination" (loud, boisterous laughter) exists in the world, and that even "the Powers of Good" seem to share in the mockery, which is what makes the whole strife so ironic. Crowley saw this irony as a way to combat spiritual pride, as it brings the individual back to a sense of humility and perspective Next time I am called out on my 'bad sense of humor ' I shall explain how I am only following the example of the Universe .

Thanks for sparing me ... if I remember rightly, last time it was very ........ unEgyptian . I'll leave this one for our resident Indiana Jones of Egyptology

yes, to an extent , but the reference to 'magick ' and 'Daimonic Reality ' supposes something ..... 'against common consensual reality ' , ie we make happen or watch / observe something , we dont normally do , that has 'limited consensual reality ' ... and example of that is many of us don not 'believe in UFOs (until recently ) but small groups (limited consensual reality ) affirm they have seen them and seen the same thing as each other was seeing . Which is branch of Magick Crowley touted ; 'Scientific Illuminism ' .... ' The method of science with the aim of religion ' . hence the magical diary and record where experiments , rituals, meditations, etc should be written up , pretty much like a science experiment ( Aim , Equipment , processes , record of event ( the 'working itself ' and what might have occurred during and then any results as time goes on , and over time to collate and compare the record ) . '' Let success be thy proof '' Oh ... there is ! I believe it . And there from the beginning ( most related ritual is about knowing that and having converse with it , evoking , yes but not 'evoking it into existence ' / 'creating it ' . It seems to much a part of too many different cultures , in one way or another . Yes. A lot of magick is an 'unveiling ' and it should ( according to the 'Old Boy ' ) have such elements of Buddhist and Hindu realizations about the nature of mind . By the way ... the proceeds and resultant papers of the above 'Scientific Illuminism ' approach and research ( and results ) or just papers or philosophies gleaned from the process (as well as more intellectual works ) get collated and shared in 'The Collage of Hermetic Philosopher ' - on examining a lot of the work and attempting to answer the question .... is it internal projection or external forces , the official pronouncement on that was ( back then ) ' .... we are not yet ready to say , one or the other ' Thats because ( I reckon , as in many cases ) its a bit of both .

Yes . We could focus on this part of the definition ; '' the belief that belief itself is a tool to manipulate reality and that one can shift beliefs as needed to achieve goals. ' So, I assume , the ritual system and 'paraphernalia ' of magick is geared towards cultural belief ( hence different types of magick ; from modern western, to 'Javanese' to Buddhist , etc . ) and relies on a stong 'set' in the psyche - which is why a lot of older western magick is in the 'theater ' of Christianity (or its opposite , ie, 'demon based ' or 'sourced' ) . That is , in this situation , it is firmly entrenched in the psyche and the belief system . So can ( and how can one ) change or ;shift' belief systems so as to have them so firmly entrenched in the psyche that thay have the same 'impact ' . I doubt this part . However , the issue of belief systems 'manipulating ' realty seems better explained by 'Daimonic Reality Theory' ( ex Harpur ) seems more realistic . I 'operate' sort of like that , but my belief systems only 'validly ' changed ( ie, changed to a deep enough influence that they did 'manipulate' reality , after evidence accretion - ie . if you try something and get the same result many times , then its easier for the belief to become entrenched in the psyche to be effective . Also it broaches the whole idea of inner Vs outer influence . What are your thoughts on that ?

Same here .... and I never went to see the movie either ! I have seen shorts on TV advertising it but never knew of the Chaos theory in it until this thread .

And ? This isnt about Chaos theory .... its about Chaos Magick .... a point established ( back near the start of the thread ) . No, chaos magick does not directly use chaos theory from physics, but it is named for the word "chaos" and its philosophical principles are similar, emphasizing uncertainty, adaptability, and the idea that small changes can have large effects. The name reflects the belief that belief itself is a tool to manipulate reality and that one can shift beliefs as needed to achieve goals. One is a 'philosophy' the other is a mathematical system ( non-lineal , dynamic systems theory ) . That spanner was removed from the 'works' previously but Homer keeps trying to throw it back in to subvert this thread . .

Its best to ignore that one ^ ( perception and communication 'difficulties' ) Sorry , I thought the original diversion to this subject and the posting of that paper and bringing up this idea was due to a lack of understanding about what the term in question actually meant and this was bought up as a possible alternative explanation / origin . ; '' There really are a thousand different ideas what it could mean, because no-one actually seems to know what it means. .

Indeed ! ... and thats the point ... if you 'get it ' . Correct , however I was responding to the actual words if the claim which were ; '' worshiped a Sky God '' not '' had a sky God as head of their pantheon '' . 'PIE religion and associated 'facts' are either made up or highly speculative as is 'Dyeus piter '

Here is the summary a few points and anyone with knowledge in a specific area , feel free to comment ; The evidence conveying that the Zhou had received Indo-European influence is as follows: • The Western Rong consisted of several Indo-European tribes. • King Wen Wang, who was from Western Yi, was the founder of the Zhou dynasty. • The Zhou and the Qiang (an Indo-European tribe) people intermarried for generations. ( I see no great significance in this as people travelled and traded waaaay back from across Kazakistan , Mongolia and further east ( 'across the top ' ) and technology passed to and from , intiermarriage might be normal through many trade routes ) • Fuxi, who may himself have been Indo-European, created the trigrams, a type of binary and tripartite system of divination, which are classical Indo-European cultural beliefs. ..... ( might make a good separate thread ? ) • There are Indo-European words (stems) in Old Chinese. The trigram names of the Yijing are one such example. ( ? ) • The connections between Huangdi, Xiwangmu, jade, Yuzhi or Yuezhi, Qiang and the Western Rong, together with the special place they hold in ancient China’s myths, demonstrate that the myths were possibly Indo-European in origin ( possibly ? • There is a large discrepancy between archaeological discoveries and classical records in terms of the beginning of agriculture. • The historical records portray a nomadic tribe struggling to accept a “civilized”—non- nomadic—life. ( seems common in a few places ) • Houji was revered perhaps because he may have introduced sophisticated agricultural ways to these semi-nomadic peoples. ( '' may have '' ) • The Zhou worshiped a Sky God, which is a core Indo-European belief. ( so did Ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, Mesopotamia various Native American, Australian and other indigenous cultures ) . A level of writing adequate for creating records was developed only in the late Shang and early Zhou, and that, combined with the Zhou’s culture of an interest in recording history, is the reason we read the Zhou’s history and not that of the indigenous people. • The Zhou eventually developed a type of caste or social class system, another Indo-European trait. ( again, common elsewhere , many cultures had social classes or 'professional guilds' or divisions ) • The Zhou chariots in China present in many burials, also a Indo-European trait. ( this does seem a particular I E trait ) • The Yellow Emperor and the Zhou royal classes were connected through the name or character Ji 姬. • The Yellow Emperor used characters that hint of a chariot-like vehicle. ( hint ? )

Its a slog through it . I did a speed read about and am about half way through , the evidence seems thin . Some things did spread west to east 'across the top' like some types of original metal working . But I have not found evidence of the claims yet . Yeah , they both have horses ... wheeled carts * etc . if these sorts of studies had great merit , others would be blowing a trumpet about it ... ie, they would not be such isolated articles and attention would be bought to them more ....... usually . There are some exceptions though .... BMAC / STAC / 'Oxus' civilization was touted to be the 4th major developing civilization ( along with China Middle east Indus Egypt .... and only entered western knowledge in the 70s ... but that has not really made a 'big noise ' 'people' ( history buffs , etc ) seem more interested in war battles and 'great' military men * not that wheeled carts thing again ! Many an argument about that ! Usually to do with IE influence into IVC ..... IE bought wheeled carts to India ! sigh .... IE were known for horse and development of chariots , which are different to wheeled carts ... just about everyone had wheeled carts , and IE were responsible (or their ancestors were ) for horse domestication .... ( which happened long before people started using them to pull carts or chariots ) ... its all complex and too far off topic for this thread though . In sort , I am yet to be convinced by that article

Typical that you cant own what you do and project it on to someone else . I started a thread on Chaos magick and your Christian perspective could not deal with it so you started spamming, interrupting , and talking weird Christian shit and Jurrasic park claims and all sorts of nonsense that numerous people, not just me, pointed out to you . You are obviously trying to disrupt and mock discussion on a subject you dont like . Now others probably have no more interest in the thread YOU barged into and filled with your crap . Was that your aim ?. yet now it is me that is spamming, being incomprehensible and 'baffling ' Lets have a little review : First you claimed Chaos Magick was a spin off from Jurassic Park . Then you claimed Jurassic park appeared in 1990 and claimed there was no record of Chaos magick before 2000 and then claimed JP influenced CM although they pretend it doesnt . Then its pointed out you are wrong and shown CM started in 1970s Then when I suggested you might start at Wikipedia to get an into into what Chaos Magick is, you stated that pop culture and movies are a better source of information. Then you refuted the dates above , although admitting Chaos magic was earlier than Jurassic Park but became more popular afterwards ( with no evidence whatsoever , just argumentative attempted justification to try and hold up your random statements and supposins .) Then it was pointed out you read the dates wrong as they didnt even pertain to what you claimed , it was the date the article was written . Then you claimed that is what people say when they cant admit influence from dinosaur movies ... which actually means that if its pointed out you made a mistake reading a date the wrong way , that is other people's fault that are doing a cover up . Then you stated you dont care if what you claimed is true or not you got a laugh out of it ( that is you laughed at your own false claims ) and said 'that is all that matters ' . Then you started with the 'trust in the Lord ' thing . . . for some reason . Then quoted the Bible about not relying on your own understanding . Then you claimed that was 'basic evolution ' . ???? Then encouraged us to follow Noah's Ark example . Then state others dont want to be saved so its better to focus on yourself . Then claimed everything people are unhappy about could have been changed 20 years ago. Then you compared Israelite's in the Bible with doing the same thing that people do today with smart phones and 'teslas' . Then you claimed 12 year old kids would not think my responses were 'smart ' , said I was spamming and straw manning ( the 2nd , yes I was , as there is no rational points or arguments to counter , just to point out how bizarre your approach and lack of connectivity in what your write is ) Then declare you are baffled by my stance here . My stance here was to discuss chaos and supposed non chaos magic . Your stance here ? Actually I feel confident in declaring many Daobums dont have a froarkin clue what your stance is and why you are here .... on the whole Daobums site . As this is a pattern you exhibit all over the site . So like others have ... its probably best to ignore you .

An empty unspecified claim .... again ! Its the new 'look after yourself ' redaction . Well of course as everyone has some knowledge . All humans do . I suppose you are thinking of some special privileged or level of knowledge that makes some 'better ' than others . Is that a serious question ..... to someone that has said they study anthropology . Its getting weirder , since you have constantly been arguing silly and irreverent things yourself with people here that offer facts from science and technology . So I would say you and these 'people' ( whoever they are , aside from you ) are in the minority while the others , which all of a sudden have become invisible to you or ceased to exist, are in the majority . Perhaps like me , they never saw such evidence of power and reality ? No it isnt 'the same way ' - there you go with those bizarre 'Biblical comparisons ' again . Go on then . Like your leader over there ? .

which is all aside from the the question you asked and the proof I offered .

Did you ask their permission first ? Maybe if you didnt, thats why he got angry .

The people I helped save were grateful . It seems you have had a different experience and assume somehow that must apply to me as well . But its also probably that , I actually help save them from accidents or death or precarious situations , or being outcast , not having shelter or support , etc . Maybe you were proselytizing at them ie 'saved' in that 'unique' Christian sense . Then its probably not a case of them 'not wanting to be saved ' , but wanting you to stop trying to convert them to your own belief system No, I didnt find that either , again, they were grateful for the meager support I could give them . There is that 'thyself' again . Nothing like 'good old fashioned Bible speak ' to drive a point home However , it is an unusual 'sense' for one who claims to follow the teaching of Jesus Luke 10:30 ' In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he thought too bad buddy .... I'm lookin after myself ! . “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” The expert in the law replied, “The one who focused on himself .” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.” That is for a reason and there is a remedy .