narveen

what is the basis of this denial? reality is inexplicable and defies definition. rejection of something uknowable is silly. what the buddha taught is not important. what he was supposed to have taught is. so, let's deal with that and check it out. ok, let's junk the buddhists if they are weirdos. these are your beliefs. leave the buddha out of this. just deal with your beliefs which are: 1. nibbana, a transcendent state. 2. we are composed of parts and these parts being impermanent aren't the real us per se. 3. nibbana is an aspect of brahman and the release of the personal self. since it is stupid, let's junk buddhism in its entirety including everything the buddha was supposed to have taught. your thread is about three things: 1. the skeptical buddhist. 2. critical thinking. 3. buddhism. we have junked 1 and 3. this leaves 2 (critical thinking). shall we apply this to check out your beliefs? what is a transcendent state? and what are those parts that we are composed of?

is poverty not a part of life? i don't like it but i am not ashamed of it. i would rather get rid of it and not hide it. yes. london, paris and new york - high cultural statements in their own right. they are a lot less depressing than the slums of kolkata and mumbai (one can't even find mcdonald's there). a rural village in india is not quite the same as a rural village in switzerland, south of france or upstate new york. you would rather live without piped water, electricity and toilet? that, to me, would be pushing ethnic pride a little too far.

yep, grass and bamboo are what they are and none try to be green or flexible. therefore, te - as innate virtue - is a quality of human nature that cannot be cultivated at will. one cannot become good or bad. one just is. one doesn't even determine what is good or bad - it just is. the path to hell is paved with good intentions (virtues of choice?), they say. in the east, mandates come from Heaven; in the west, they come from the individual. holy cow! (as we say in india.)

was your exposure to your mom limited too, or were you also as properly breast-fed as me? in india, where always on and i come from, ethnically-speaking, moms are poor. They cannot afford to feed their babies on formula like affluent western moms. this is why even beggar urchins have bright eyes and gleaming white teeth from mother's milk. our minds, unfortunately, are something else. in india, dads are like american liberal arts professors who shape kids minds, and they do it with a stick and a whack! kids like me and always on, who make it out of the slums of india's poverty, end up like dr sen gupta and deepak chopra. i tell you this so you may feel lucky to have limited exposure to buddhist doctrines. they are like formula for babies (mentally-speaking).

so, academia, being funded by special interests, is a propaganda machine. we know that is true about liberal arts professors shaping minds at american universities. it never occurred to me that they have been shaping the face of the buddha also. always on? obviously not. blame it on the professors, present company excepted. (i assume you teach?). stefos appears quite besotted with krishnamurti. do you have any opinions about this man and his teaching which always on has dismissed as New Age? i look forward to your lecture.

i don't read. i am a true pratyekabuddha. richard carrier is a deity of american hinduism. there is no such thing as an enlightened person, son. (everybody wants to be somebody's father in this thread. i am just going with the flow.)

i would rather read your mind and pick it apart like the buddha. we are both hindus, always on.

is there anyone who is not deluded? a sick mind invents things like buddhas and skandas.

you are right. buddhism is a living religion. dharma is for the dead.

virtue is man-made. just because it is artificial does not mean it is a matter of choice. did man choose to invent nuclear weapons? either way, it is not a matter of choice. you do what you've gotta do. "an eye for an eye" for some, and "turn the other cheek" for others. people cannot help being what they are, can they? we are born that way. regardless of the choices available, each ultimately ends up like a ball in the pocket of a spinning roulette wheel. no one likes being fat just to float. fat deposits itself in the gut without choice. is anyone independent ever? it nice feeling - the ability to choose. everything else in nature is pretty much locked in to a cycle and a pattern. thanks for the argument. i couldn't help it.

who says pratyeka path is no longer an option? pratyeka means you can think for yourself. only your mom can take that option away.

If confucius or jesus is not historical, what makes you think the buddha (aka guatama) was historical?

are you disdainful of people who attain enlightenment in a way unconnected with buddhism? jesus christ comes to mind. another would be confucius. yet another would be the "author" of the tao te ching. pratyekabuddhas cannot preach the dharma of buddhism. they would have their own respective dharmas. what is the dharma of chi force if he is a pratyekabuddha?

you mean choosing a moral value as in choosing to avoid being bad? i feel like a river that avoids flowing upstream and choosing my path to the sea. a short answer to your question would be no.

Is dharma innate? Are social values innate? friend zerostao says yes but i say no. I guess my innate in not the same as zero's innate.

can reality be chosen at will? one can't even choose one's place in life, can one?

stimulation of the object of desire causes the watching. a child watches cartoons in a state of entrancement. switch off the tv and it cries. watching the cause of stimulation requires awakening from entrancement. how does a child awakens from being a child?

does this not make things worse? it would be like indulging an obsession, a binge.

what makes sense, ambitious child?

hi basher, thanks for the welcome. how come i am not allowed to reply/participate in taoist discussion forum? i see lots of topics that pique my interest there. is there an initiation process? i checked FAQ and no clues there. i am not going with any flow of choice. i feel like a piece of trash flowing helplessly down the ganga. what about you, basher? are things working out?