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Practicing nei dan from whatever you read on tdb will lead you to hell, a quite personal hell, because you are practicing wrong. Find a realized teacher.

I think I'll keep them– these rhythms, this reverence. All else I release.

Xing and Ming appear to be open terms with a broad spectrum of meanings with different nuances depending on the context. People seem to want to cling onto a single definition rather than seeking the underlying principle. Which is fine is people want to argue on the internet, I guess, but I don't see how it will forward practice. It seems to me that the spiritual arts of China are in fact arts as opposed to engineering manuals. But that's just my opinion. Here is an article with actual references to classical material talking about this. Anyone familiar with Chan or other literature may see the pattern rippling with different terms. https://fabriziopregadio.com/files/PREGADIO_Destiny_Vital_Force_or_Existence.pdf

I'd say by trying one's best to keep a neutral point of view while coming across different versions during our exploration. I guess neither absolute truth nor absolute falsehood can exist within what basically smells like working through relative dynamics. The contradiction seems more to come from sectarian dogmatic positions fighting each others rather than from a mind incapacity to organise its own relationships with reality, but yes the feedback is very anoying. Why do you ask this question Forest of clarity ? No reason to believe anything because of the extensive practical experience i have in his method. One of my teacher teacher's learnt directly from him. I'd say its not for everybody, not for no one either, it depends on individual inborn caracteristics. He gets nothing wrong about this particular version of Taoist practice, he can explain it very detaily and accurately, what he can't do, is to tell you if this version is good for you or not.

Completly agree with you about the opposition you suggest, like a conflict between fire and metal, they may need more than only one mediator to facilitate their relationships and increase the efficiency of their communications. In opinion, it is very useful to know at least some about the background of a particular definition, for exemple, the very knowlegeable martial arts teacher in the video provides almost copy/pasted definitions and interpretations of those from Chen Yining, a scholar of taoism who extracted theories and practices from Neidan texts and participated in the establishment of the Chinese Taoist Association, a Chinese government religious institution whose quarterheads are located in the Baiyunguan in Beijing. His theories and practices may have became what we can call the 'modern general method of taoist meditation'. It is perfectly fine to move into that direction if it resonates, nobody has the right to say that's it is wrong to go there just because this or that nobody chose another direction, it is just that the particular culture of the academic, religious, scientific, political, medical, military etc background and their infinite possible combinations will become the environement and in my opinion it is something we should at least be aware of, because if i am a dog, i really don't want to end up being raised by cats and then start to meow and purr believing to be one, later in life the traumatic realization that i actually lived for years like a pussy could be terrible!!

All else I release barbies, plush cats, candies, books cookies santa keeps

and heaven and nature sing! have we arrived at the gate?

I read the book, but never knew about the show. People whose sublimation of our hunters-gatherer instincts causes them to hunt and gather lost, misinterpreted, censored, suppressed, adapted to an agenda or to a preconceived idea etc. information command the highest respect in my eyes. But being human, they are not immune to doing more of the same on occasion. I don't mean the holy grail authors specifically, for all I know they may have been right! Nor would I write off without a second look, e.g., Sitchin just because his theory appears wild... I find the "accepted" views among the wildest on many subjects -- 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.' Or Lev Gumilev who was a serious influence back in the day. (I think he spontaneously discovered feng shui on a macro scale -- of course he never called it that, and "spontaneously" may not really be the case, considering he was an expert on things Asia...)

Maurice Druon, The Accursed Kings historical novels -- read them all as a teenager. For a while they made me an expert in medieval French history. I remember little by now, but I did remember the story of Jacques de Molay and was under the impression, for many years, that the curse concerned not just the Capetian dynasty but all of Europe. I don't remember why I interpreted it this way, but there you have it. The dynasty that went a long time before that one, the Merovingians, I find particularly interesting. In their heyday they established the largest kingdom in Western Europe after the fall of the Roman empire (if there really was such a thing as "the fall" -- to me it seems more like the refurbishing/recalibration). What I find special about them is that to this day, chronicles exist that officially derive their genealogy from a sea monster, a “quinotaur,” who had a relationship with the ancestress and produced Meroveh, the founder of the dynasty. This gave the dynasty sacral pre-Christian legitimacy—a ruler whose authority comes from the sea/chaos/the Other. (Just like Chinese emperors who derive their Mandate to rule from the dragon. Chinese dragons spend the first one thousand years as water creatures, then develop flight and take to the sky, the mountains, and the imperial court, as the case may be.)

Thank you for the reminder. Neidan is a just a practical mean to reach the achievements sought after within Taoist spirituality, so actually it doesn't matter that much as long as there is a respectful and open minded attitude between Neidanists and non believers don't you think ? Immortal just like saint, it is a posthumous title, and there is some very substantial real life wisdom in their words too.

知己知彼

'君子坦蕩蕩, 小人長戚戚' (Yes, i use a Confucius quote) 性命雙修 not dependent to a particular technic, singing, dancing , gardening, cooking, painting, writing, playing and instrument etc can be the media to practice, Taiji, Qigong, martial arts too of course, we just need the principles to turn skills into 性命雙修.

So a 'vital force' and a 'driving force' is not an energy? Hmm. Energy just means the capacity to do work ... or to effect change in some way. So anything which is a vital force must be by definition an energy. Not trying to be picky here as although I accept that the term energy in these contexts has been used in a sloppy way, it does have an exact meaning. Also is it not true that terms which are used elsewhere in certain ways are used in Neidan spcifically as technical terms which may be different to the general meaning of something. I think this needs to be remembered.

Okay, thank you for your patience. Since we have many ideas and definitions argued or agreed upon. I think we have enough information(aminition) to continue with the journey of Neidan. As I recall, I believe your question was referring to the quality in the achievement of my Taiji practice. Anyway, what I had changed in my body from the practice were: 1. I can breathe much deeper and more efficiently. It is the most important factor. 2. More alert 3. Faster reflex 4. Stay calmer in adverse situations. 5. Do not get fatigue too easily 6. More body strength to perform difficult task 7. My voice increased in tone makes it better for singing and able to handle more notes 8. Better mentality. The practice is mainly with the coordination of the breathing and the movements. You might say that Taiji is also the cultivation of 性 and 命.

Cool ! That is a major basis of Australian Aboriginal spirituality ( re distinct ethnicity and 'nations' connection to land , birthplace and identity ) . AI Overview; There were hundreds of distinct Aboriginal groups (often called tribes or nations) in Australia before European colonization, with estimates ranging from 500 to 600 different groups, speaking over 250 languages (or dialects), each with unique lands, cultures, and traditions, forming incredibly diverse societies across the continent I have also explored it with Tarot; ( not in a reading but ) a way of viewing the deck in its 'construction' , or a 'lay out ' . ... for 'countries and continents ' This has happened at least twice in this environment , Wibalma was one of them In Ngarinyin and Kimberley tradition, Wibalma was a visionary artist-ancestor credited with being the primary catalyst for Wunan Law, the ancient social and legal system of Northwest Australia. His role is defined by several key actions and characteristics: The Visionary Artist: Wibalma is described as the figure who "started society" through his art. He is closely associated with the Gwion rock art tradition (formerly known as "Bradshaw figures"), which serves as the original graphic legal documentation of the Wunan system. Creation of the Sacred Object: Traditional accounts state that Wibalma created a single sacred object of Justice (manjilarri), which became the catalyst for the entire Wunan legal framework. yes. In most ancient traditions they are related or a 'reflection' of one to another . In some places its even etched onto the stone giving a function of timing ( ie. when the image carved in the stone lines up in certain ways , with the images in the stars ). Your comment also made me think of what I call 'Earth Acupuncture ' . On a large scale : see Tibetan Sinmo https://rubinmuseum.org/the-demoness-of-tibet/ On a large scale ; temples or on your land , smaller scale , hammer in a few of these at the appropriate points Of course, personally I would not fuck with it ; down here landscape energies are regulated by natural features and all connected to the central feature ; Which is why the indigenous dont like people moving stuff around, taking rocks, changing landscape and especially dont like people 'mucking around with crystals ' as they dont know what they are doing ( indigenous have a highly secret active crystal technology that they use ) . .

he is MonSanta* spent, he's left the phosphate mine Christmas dinner's near *took me a minute to figure this out, but chuckled when I did ... who in the world is MonSanta : )

As you know, it is not easy to hold one's breath to dive to a sufficient depth to find out that actually Neidan did an appropriation and reinterpretation of these terms.

Thank you. I couldn't agree more. The cultivation of 性 and 命 is not pertaining the Neidan. The cultivation was intended for one to be a better person as 真人. 真人 should be known as a "True man," other than a "real man" as commonly translated. The idea for being a True man is to have a good educated mind with a healthy body. BTW They don't called this as 性命雙修 for nothing, you know! A good educated mind is able to distinguish what is true or false and able to sort and filter things out with logic.

... you're referencing a fabled myth as the prime source of a philosophical position? Why not realize what you are? Exercising judgment on the entire human condition in how it relates to the well being of the entire species of people - is a fools errand. You will never ever be able to make anything out of it. So why even think along these lines? In response to the direct question - No. Human beings are not sheep, never have been, and never will be. Recognizing what one is is part of the spiritual path. In the taoist view - devolving into animals is the reversal of evolution. Ignorance is not bliss. People who say that, have never experienced actual spiritual bliss. Ignorance is a cause of suffering/disempowerment of people in the world, not it's answer.

Yes, people made it too broad and lost its esoteric narrow meaning in the context. BTW The same problem applies the 气。

https://fabriziopregadio.com/files/PREGADIO_Destiny_Vital_Force_or_Existence.pdf I was wondering where are the people getting the confusion from. People took this as Bible. That was the problem. He wasn't sure what he is talking about. He may know the definition of the individual characters. However, he doesn't know what the individual meaning of 性 and 命 abide to definition of the cultivation. P.S. The cultivation of 性 and 命 is not pertaining the Neidan. The cultivation was intended to be a better person as 真人. 真人 should be known as a "True man," other than a "real man" as commonly translated. The idea for being a True man is to have a good educated mind with a healthy body. BTW They don't called this as 性命雙修 for nothing you know. Quoted from the above: "Neidan or Internal Alchemy has developed two main modes of selfcultivation. The first is based on cultivating the mind and intends to remove the causes that prevent one from “seeing one’s true nature,” which is equated with the Elixir. The second is based on purifying the main components of the human being—Essence (jing 精 ), Breath (qi 氣 ), and Spirit (shen 神 )—so that they may serve as ingredients of the Elixir. These two modes of self-cultivation are said to place an emphasis on xing 性 and on ming 命 , respectively. However, Neidan texts repeat time and again that xing and ming can only be understood and realized in conjunction with one another." I can accept that the 精 as essence. However, 氣 is definitely doesn't mean breath here. Rather, it is the vital force to keep the body to function. Also, it is not an energy. 神 is not spirit, rather it is a driving force to keep the body in motion.

Cookies Santa keeps are so full of glyphosate he is MonSanta.

You might laugh very hard if you knew how some shows depict history. Although maybe I should take that as a challenge to read more books.

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The fellow that made the video on xuan guan does a nice job discussing xing and ming and their cultivation in this and other videos.

Hopefully in the future these very precious and key field scholars will write another book titled : 'Reality Trippers Forgotten Daoism and the Predicament of the Modern World'

If you are interested in how west and east converge on Daoism, try this book Dream Trippers Global Daoism and the Predicament of Modern Spirituality David A. Palmer and Elijah Siegler https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/D/bo26692000.html

Thank you. The OP ask fundamental questions and makes a very good observation: "there are actually many "unknowable" elements to human existence. Why does one person have a good response with a certain method, while another person suffers a lot of setbacks with the same method, or even has a terrible side effect? Who can really explain it? Precisely because these things are hard to say or know, you don’t hear many people in Taoist temples saying, “This is the one and only way to practice” or “It will definitely end bad if you practice that way.” There are nearly infinite variables in life. So many things really varies from person to person." In the same way, it is not rare that what we call 'love' between two people end up in the killing of one of the partner. Not rare too that our choices and decisions in many different areas of life make us end up in very difficult and complicated situations, troubles, disorders, problems, diseases. Taoism has ways to answer such questions, individually, it is called taoist counselling. There are reasons underlying tangible and intangible phenomenas that can be calculated, measured and analyzed which can explain why for exemple this particular individual should not practice by this way, and methods to establish a tailor made 'training program' for that particular individual. From the point of view of taoist counselling, it is a daring bet to engage head first into something without knowing the odds. Why nowadays we can't find these taoist ways in taoist temples, Neidan schools, online Neigong academies etc is very simple, the speaker in the video learnt taoist practice at the Baiyunguan in Beijing if i recall correctly. This is a very special environment with its historical and cultural history, but unfortunately the original meaning and purpose of this place may have change into something else around the 50's. Today, 99% of the taoist channels linking to the west originate in this 'something else' which is devoid of the original value, meaning and purpose of taoism as a prehistorical intangible cultural heritage, but as you can feel from your 9th sense, we are almost arrived at the gate.

Absolutlely right, same goes for me from your posts and writing style. I don't regret to have taken a step out, now i have a new friend.

I wasn't contradicting that. I was complimenting it. It is their profound surrender to God's will (natural flow of Dao) that makes them leaders. Paradoxically so. To echo Dao De Jing: "So the last will be first, and the first will be last" Matthew 19:30 "Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." Matthew 23:12: Yes, love. No contradiction here either. My motive was to wish you Merry Christmas. 🌟🙏

Long story. This guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev_Gumilev And the "spontaneous discovery of feng shui on a macro scale" I was referring to was how I later interpreted his Ethnogenesis and the Biosphere of Earth -- a rather wild (by accepted scientific standards) theory that links the appearance of distinct ethnicities and nations and their subsequent characteristic behaviors to the geographical landscapes of their places of origin. He also introduced the notion of "passionarity" and the "passionarian" it produces, the type of individual personality that moves and shakes history. It was his way to settle the long-standing problem of "the role of the individual in history" -- and if memory serves, the appearance of such potential and such individuals was also linked to the influences of the landscape and the cosmic radiation as it interacts with it -- in classical feng shui terms, to Heavenly Stems and Earthly Branches. When I read this work in the late 70s or early 80s, it was still taboo, and I had a samizdat (typewritten-at-home) version someone let me borrow.

A local indigenous dance (sort of titled; ) ' We hunt what we see ' : anyone can do it, it has elements of 'free form' in it ; hunting, stalking, watching , considering , choosing then ...... bam ! Spearing it ! (into the ground in front of the person , object or process they have incorporated into the 'dance' . Even old 'Gubbo ' ( a renowned elder from 'out of ' this 'country ; Gumbaynngirr ) who was sitting in the audience. The Gumgayngggirr lead dancer approached him , looked at him with head cocked , smelt him, fluffed his beard (all highly impolite ... out of the dance ) then yelled and speared the ground in front of him . Ted smiled . .. it was actually a compliment . Most think its a simple hunting mime . Some think ... they hunt people ! ? ... others misunderstand it as being a simple process , you have to see what you hunt , after all .. so what are they on about . Its about learning from life , searching for lessons in nature and environment (hunting 'truth' ) , evaluating , using , seeing best benefit , considering it and how to apply it then 'taking it in ' and using it to grow and develop . 'Hunter and hunted' ; .................................... ( Uncles Wirrunga- Gumbayynggirr elder and Ted { Thomas} - Yuin Elder ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guboo_Ted_Thomas What ... who ... where ?

Dont you mean that famous book ; ' The Hairy Blood and the Hairy Grail ' ?

This is ep 1 of the series from 1972:

Rephrase: If Dao is “invisible with potential,” then it already has properties. If it has properties, it is not nothing. Therefore the concept does not contradict itself. Good point. Very logical. I would replace the word "nothingness" to "invisible", then, there is no argument. Laotze had already defined Tao is either visible and invisible in Chapter One. It was the first thing that he pointed out before anything else. If someone misread that, then, there is no need to go any further for the translation. Sorry, the way it was written is very paradoxical. That was his style of thinking. He always say something negatively but ended up positive. No one can deny the authenticity of the TTC that was not written by him. Laotze was a wise man, a sage to be exact.

Thanks for clarifying that (It’s on the page you posted https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/57604-the-practice-of-neidan內丹/?do=findComment&comment=1068928)

What’s written there is: 道 生 一 一 生 二 二 生 三 三 生 萬 物 (ch. 42 Henricks , MWD ) Your translation merely is one of many possible interpretations.

Well I may have misremembered it cos I watched it in the 70’s. The presenters name was Henry Lincoln and he co-authored “the holy blood and the holy grail’ or some such which was a best seller back in the day.

Yes, I figured that there was something hidden in the username. Without any explanation, I see 性命雙修 is taken place in your daily life. What a coincidence, Wu Wei helps me to do the same. So far it eased my heart from a lot of burden, improved my health, clarified my mind, pacified internal conflicts, harmonized my human relationships...all this is very real for sure. You've said it all. The mutual resonance on our part 可算得是知己知彼. No wonder the friendly gesture is unavoidable.

LOL, that explains it. Danny boy didn't strike me as a scholarly type (unlike another mass-appeal author, R.R. Martin, behind whose fantasy worlds one can sense rather vast explorations of actual history -- via spending time at the library rather than watching TV shows.) But the show presenter didn't know his Latin either. Those kings were known as reges criniti -- long-haired kings. Had they been hairy they would have been reges hirsuti. The term hisrutism is used in medical jargon today as well, for the condition of being excessively covered with hair (which in many cases is not a "condition" but a genetic/ethnic feature, but in others a symptom, e.g. of some ovarian disorders in women.)

I was just recalling an old TV series called the Blood and the Grail where the presenter referred to king Dagobert as the hairy kings. It has always stuck in my mind - the series ‘inspired’ Dan Browns Da Vinci Code (in other words he ripped it off from them).

Yes, psychosomatic. You are right about 性, 性格, 品性, same goes for 人性, 人格, 人品. At this point i may disapear, i feel the FaceBookImmortals agents are on their way and as a 芻狗 i can only surrender to the Nature's authority.

100% wrong.

computer translate.... yes... yes... i see now....... "Wang Zhenyan is not a magist, but he has set up a true religion (Northern Zong) with a t-shirt and emphasis:"....... yes... we must increase market share through t-shirt branding.... google translate what would i do without you.

I suggest you read more. All schools are so different. e.g. not all use LDT.

and there you have it folks ! ^ How we used to organize things and meet up ..... before mobile phones, social media and the internet !

SifuGPT

Thank You. I will make a mental note of that. I would, also, like to remind you that the method of Neidan was only a virtual concept dreamed up by the ancient Taoist and there wasn't any physical proof. People are just took it for granted.

The only way to do Father's work is by surrendering to his will. I guess that's how I would combine these two ideas. Twisting all religions into a single pretzel is my favorite thing to do, haha. You get a nice infinity simbol aswell 🥨