Nungali Posted August 28 (edited) 20 hours ago, Lala Nila said: Yes. I found some commentary about that particular subreddit pretty interesting on r/jung. Users basically accusing the mods of running their own cult on r/kundalini. It's pretty funny and a proper reaction to the absurdity of the times. I agree that the Victorian era's ideals of modesty were pretty ridiculous. it was also a time of huge social polarization- extreme wealth and ostentatiousness, yet at the same time we had children working in horrid factory conditions with extreme poverty at the lower echelons of society. Sure, I'm curious It was a form of modern ' voudon ' . Before the ceremony one is required to gain some familiarity with the system and the group of 'loas', which are seen as a type of 'spirit' * , and you are to select one you think you have an affinity with or want to know about . each has a symbol or veve and special 'likes' ( rum , a certain flower , chili , pearls , etc ) which you offer . The Priestess and Priest start by drawing a line and each end is their veve and offering ( here the male is usually 'Baron Semedi ' or 'Gede ' , you might be familiar with him ; His wife is Maman Bridgette Then lines are drawn out from the center and each draws their veve at the end of the line, making the circle . There is drumming and chanting and dancing , people are coming into the central altar and placing their offerings there . After a while things get .... well, 'different ' and the drummers have to sense this and change the rhythm and people start dancing 'backwards ' ('widdershins ') and some enter into 'communion' with their spirit or experience other changes in consciousness . It can get pretty wild . Then it comes back to 'normal' , a feast for grounding and (in this ritual I did ) by then it was near dawn . And someone had the bright idea to go to the local nearby graveyard ...... OH-O ! I thought . But everyone was very respectful , they had wanted to go there to do some gardening , clean up old grave sites and leave flowers on graves that seemed to have not had any care or attention for a while . After that we went down the beach as someone had made a little boat and we put some of the food and flowers in that and a little fire and floated it put into the sea into the rising sun as an offering to our ancestors . * Loas can be 'spirits ' , forces of nature , ancient forest , even 'Ezulie Freda' who was a white lady that had helped the slaves , after she died she was elevated to 'loa ' her form is a 'nice old lady in white dress . gloves and pearl necklace' , she is attributed to love , beauty and prosperity . - The one I chose was 'Simbi la Flambeau ' snake of fire . He is related to all great 'Damballa's ' (including Wallenganda - female form and Ungud - male form ; see below ) but primarily I chose to be a drummer , cause thats what I do There was only one other drummer but it went off well . At the end he said I played interesting and unusual rhythms and asked where they came from and how I got them . I said I didnt know ... because I didnt but each loa has a rhythm, I'm sure ** ** . Eg 'Papa Legba ' loa is an old man with bad leg , he has a walking stick and when he walks first he has to put the stick down ( 'tap' ) then its shuffle , two steps - ( 'dum-dum ' ) , then put the stick down for balance - 'tap' .... two more steps, then stick and so on , so the base rhythm is ; ] tap dum-dum ..... tap dum-dum ; Quote 100%, I'm working on this offline . I'm not familiar with Wallenganda and when I google it the first 2 references are from this forum hahaha. Spoiler As I tell it around the fire (cause that's what I do ) ; Long long long time ago before the Dreamtime ... The earth was flat and featureless , just sand , nothing , all the way out then black, space , stars . Nothing but Ungud , rainbow serpent , lying on the sand . Ungud , he would lie there looking up at the stars , at that big black snake in the sky; Wallenganda , that dark river that runs through the stars 1 , with all her little children camped along the riverbank , her body .... their campfires twinkling in the night Wallenganda noticed him , ''What are you staring at ? '' '' You . '' '' Why ? '' '' Because you look so beautiful . Up there in the stars with all your beautiful children . But I have no children , I'm down here , all alone ..... poor Ungud .'' So Wallenganda felt sorry for him and she bent down her head down and spat out some of her water 2 . . Ungud curled around it and held it together . Then he lifted his head up high and punched down through the sand , taking the water with him underground and he curled around it and held it together 3. Where Ungud dived through the sand , it left a big sand hill behind that turned into stone - Uluru 4 . Ungud curled up in the water and went to sleep, and in that sleep he had a dream. In the dream Ungud multiplied himself into many rainbow serpents, they swam out making tunnels through the ground and the water flowed out behind them . They pierced the surface and made springs and rivers ,and where they moved they made valleys and furrows in landscape. Where they dived back into the earth they made soaks. They all went out in all directions with the water following them and when they got to the edge the water flowed out and made the sea , all around . ( different stories describe the coming of rain ; wandjina spirits and animals, paintings, people, etc ) We are all part of Ungud's dream and one day , that old snake, he gonna wake up ! The dream be finished , all gone , you, me, all this place ..... gone . Ungud will wake up and say, 'It was all a dream ... but it was a good dream ! ' 1. The dark long bit { dust cloud } through the Milky Way 2. Some theories state that the reason earth has so much water is that it came by comet/s asteroid/s . 3. The Great Artesian basin . 4. Quote Yes, I am a mom- it's a pretty wild experience and great opportunity to do better (in all areas of life). Quote Wow! A visit by the Undines in childhood? Were you frightened Not at all. I was at first amazed and then concerned as I could see her face and hair down there among the green long flowing water weeds as the tide was running out ... 'There is a lady down there ! She will drown ! ' But then I thought it must be a reflection in the water , so I looked up .... Quote or did she sing sweet songs to you? Sort of ,.... it was a song /stream of light and it got me right in the third eye . But by now she looked like Madonna de Guadalupe , sort of like in a 'shell' or like the sky was ripped open and she was in the middle, then she sort of burst into light like a small sun or star and she was difficult to see cause of the glare ... then that ray came out and 'got me' - here is the lady of Guadalupe ( with the shepherd having the vision ) Hey ! She is supposed to be black ! or at least brown . ( MIne wasn't - she was a 'Ginge' .) Later I realized she is also 'Stella Maris ' Our Lady Star of the Sea ' patron of sailors and those risking shipwreck or lost at sea . It was only in adult life I realized I went to 'Our Lady Star of the Sea ' primary school and also what it all meant ( I have very strong but well aspected Lunar and Neptune in my chart ) . The sea is a symbol of the unconscious, its surface the conscious and travelers on the sea and explorers into it, by analogy, are ontologists ( minus the modern AI meaning ! ) . Quote That's quite amazing.. She still is . Quote The Ron L. Hubbard connection is WILD, we all know the danger of scientology and the techniques there in. Liber 49? Yeah, I agree, but the transmission does somewhat appear inline with that stream. The other associative works are neurotic, I won't get into the details, but imparting his "manly essence" on enochian symbols/seals is a pretty dicey endeavour. lol It gets worse ... Hubbard stole some OTO rituals and documents and warped them to make 'Scientology programs ' that they sold for many thousands of dollars .. yes, let's not go deeper here with this one . Quote Strength training-mostly calisthenics, weight lifting, some bouldering, mobility and flexibility stuff. Nothing fancy, but I need calories to sustain all that and maintain muscle mass/bone density. This reminded me of a funny conversation I had with one of my kids. He was playing with his BB gun and asked if he could shoot a turkey vulture down and if I would prepare it for dinner. I freaked out and replied "No way, that is a big taboo-they eat animals that are already dead, plus it's illegal to hunt in the part of the town we live in." He looked at me, cocked his head perplexed and exclaimed "Ummm, we eat animals that are already dead!" Long sigh from me.....lol. Yes, I only buy meat from the local butcher as well. I can smell and taste the difference especially poultry and pork. Though I'm off of pork for now...and beef. Yeah, I wasn't sure about that joke, but I decided to post it anyway ...I read the room and thought "meh, hopefully their panties won't bunch up too much" hahaha. Thanks! No ... only two sets of panties appear to do that here .... Edited August 28 by Nungali Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lala Nila Posted August 28 (edited) Quote The Priestess and Priest start by drawing a line and each end is their veve and offering ( here the male is usually 'Baron Semedi ' or 'Gede ' , you might be familiar with him ; I am, he came to me in a dream once. But, being a Gringa I didn't really know how to go forward with the experience, it was an odd time in my life. It happened a few years back, I was doing some darker toned magick at the time, dealing with death and my path. Lot's of liminal places, chthonic entities, etc. This drum vid, struck a deeeeep cord with me. I use a lot of dance in my work, building cones of power, using djembe drum beats and music that resonates on a more 'primal' level. When I was younger, I spontaneously joined a drum circle in the middle of a park in Europe. I sat there stoned outta my face just playing the djembe, I had never played a percussion instrument (expect bass guitar in middle school) prior to that. I tapped into this stream, I don't know where it came from-well, I do, it came from long ago, another life...those guys that I was playing were super impressed and asked me how I knew how to play. When I allowed those vibrations to take over my body, heart and mind, I felt the current open up and became a vessel of sorts. Thank you for sharing that story about Wallenganda with me over the flames of that fire with me (yes, I saw those flames and heard the crackling). it's a lovely story, I've heard parts of it before. Quote Sort of ,.... it was a song /stream of light and it got me right in the third eye . But by now she looked like Madonna de Guadalupe , sort of like in a 'shell' or like the sky was ripped open and she was in the middle, then she sort of burst into light like a small sun or star and she was difficult to see cause of the glare ... then that ray came out and 'got me' - here is the lady of Guadalupe ( with the shepherd having the vision ) Sounds like a shaktipat to me! This is really wonderful and obviously set a tone going forward in your life. I find that sometimes entities from paradigms you're not too familiar with in this life time will appear to you in ways that resonate the deepest in that moment, for whatever reason- be it Undines, Star Lady of the Sea, etc. Quote It gets worse ... Hubbard stole some OTO rituals and documents and warped them to make 'Scientology programs ' that they sold for many thousands of dollars .. yes, let's not go deeper here with this one . Agreed, 100%. Again, thank you so much for sharing all the above! beautiful and amazing experiences. Edited August 28 by Lala Nila typos 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yugenphoenix Posted October 3 On 8/25/2025 at 12:09 PM, Lala Nila said: Oh yeah, I'm not an Thelemite by any means I don't practice any of his style of magick. But, I have read some of his works/books. Just the look in his eyes was enough to turn me off for good. haha. Caveat- I do like the Thoth Tarot quite a bite however. Thanks for your contribution to the thread, most appreciated! Terry Dunn of all people praises the Thoth Tarot, in fact memorizing it in the Flying Phoenix thread. He seems to have some occult background and in fact that thread and the further research it spawned led me to realize how “occult” all lineages are Eastern and Western…each lineage has an anchor entity or egregore that is the keystone of it’s power and acts as a sort of harnessing of the forces of the universe thru that particular symbology and imagery. But the value in memorizing the deck seems to be kinda of like the hexagrams of the I Ching, at first they are pictures, descriptions, or yarrow sticks and then they become active forces you can see and “manipulate” to find your Way. A useful exercise for sure but I’d only worry about the Trumps (of Amber 😉) and not sure I’d want his energies thru that deck…perhaps it’s powerful but worry about the taint of it as per the message of this thread about old sorcerers. Why do you like the Thoth deck so much? And what’s your tarot experience? I am a Rider Waite purist myself but have wanted a Necronomicon/Cthulhu deck for a long while but fear it’s darkness lol I have this really cool tarot like deck that is an American indigenous teaching based imagery I really like with card names like “Old Woman Sorcerer” it vibes nice with me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yugenphoenix Posted October 3 On 8/25/2025 at 12:30 PM, Lala Nila said: What's interesting to note is that Jesus himself was accused of using demonic forces (Beelzebub) by the Pharisees - Matthew (12:24), it's obvious to Christians that he was using the power of the Holy Spirit, but an interesting accusation none the less. All those old men prophet types of the Bible were first magicians and demonologists, then found the one God, duality to non-duality like us all. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yugenphoenix Posted October 3 On 8/25/2025 at 9:52 PM, Lala Nila said: Beelzebub or Baal-ze-Bub was a Philistine deity or God of the city of Ekorn, he was later demoted to demon by Judaic and Christian authorities, which is a daily common practice. Many Goetia were treated this way. Yes the Goetia are just the “Old Gods” whose followers lost and they became the demonized. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lala Nila Posted October 4 (edited) On 2025-10-02 at 10:24 PM, yugenphoenix said: Terry Dunn of all people praises the Thoth Tarot, in fact memorizing it in the Flying Phoenix thread. He seems to have some occult background and in fact that thread and the further research it spawned led me to realize how “occult” all lineages are Eastern and Western…each lineage has an anchor entity or egregore that is the keystone of it’s power and acts as a sort of harnessing of the forces of the universe thru that particular symbology and imagery. But the value in memorizing the deck seems to be kinda of like the hexagrams of the I Ching, at first they are pictures, descriptions, or yarrow sticks and then they become active forces you can see and “manipulate” to find your Way. A useful exercise for sure but I’d only worry about the Trumps (of Amber 😉) and not sure I’d want his energies thru that deck…perhaps it’s powerful but worry about the taint of it as per the message of this thread about old sorcerers. Why do you like the Thoth deck so much? And what’s your tarot experience? I am a Rider Waite purist myself but have wanted a Necronomicon/Cthulhu deck for a long while but fear it’s darkness lol I have this really cool tarot like deck that is an American indigenous teaching based imagery I really like with card names like “Old Woman Sorcerer” it vibes nice with me. I really love working with yarrow stalks and the i-ching as well, I easily trace out while in the thick of working the formula. I don't know who Terry Dunn is or what Flying Phoenix, though I heard of FP mentioned on this forum before. I enjoy the artistry/design of the Thoth deck very much, I find it the definitions of each card is framed differently, not only in the symbology but the interpretations as well. I like how the Thoth deck flows well between the qaballah, using Liber 777 as map. I wouldn't say my knowledge of tarot is expert level, though I've been using and studying it for nearly a decade. I believe that any mage should be at the very least aware of various entities and egregores connected to whatever tool he or she is using. Who created the system, grimoire, etc. how do former students or practitioners fare? Know the tree by its fruit kind of thing. I would even carry that over to various eastern lineages and the egregores and entities associated with them...even installed LDT's vs. building your own, I understand the controversy in that statement as well. maybe too well... While I enjoy the literature of HP Lovecraft and I can appreciate the esoteric grimoires associated with and built upon that mythos I have not touched that magick deeply in any sense or the tarot deck you mentioned above. Simply because those entities are of very dark forces-that lay recessed deep in the subconscious mind or deeply "asleep" "somewhere" waiting for those who seek it. If you open those kinds of energies, you better be able to work them, work through them, or banish them. It's similar to doing qlippoth work, I'm not certain there is any true benefit to it (for me personally at least). A good friend of mine did some very heavy work with the Necronomicon (and other qlippoth work) and a few associated grimoires and it brought him to some very dark places. It took him a year to dig himself out of the mess he created. I know a few people who have had a lot of difficulties from going too deep, too dark and suffering for it. Some forces are meant to stay in the subconscious realm (or whatever realm they reside), once you release them it can be very difficult to put them back there. Psychosis from occult practices is a very real condition, it's easy to spot in others, but it can be very difficult to recognize those symptoms in yourself, especially for a lone wolf like me. I have The Shadow Tarot by Linda Fiorio and while appreciate the work she put into that system, I simply have no desire to fuck with my psychology or endure heavy dissociative epics in my life. Maybe if I was not a mother or had nothing left to lose or nothing else to do. But, I have a very serious commitment to maintain relative sanity because I have young children to care for and I can't be bringing extremely dark forces into my house or life. It doesn't mean I'm a scaredy-cat/chicken, etc either...I've done a ton of heavy shit that I'd rather not get into on this forum, but ultimately I question if it was truly beneficial or resulted in positive outcomes, or any of the outcome are worth the effort and risk. I recognize Shadow work being beneficial, understanding the darker elements of reality is important, but I cannot allow it to consume my life. I have other "stuff" to do and accomplish. I've learned that when I'm ready to do something, I'll do it without hesitation. I don't do things for clout, I don't have anyone to impress. I'm certainly no "edge lord." I have over 100 decks, I collect them. Most of them I don't use for divination. My first rider deck is what I use the most, especially for divination, or pathworking/astral travel to tarot realms. Another favourite deck of my is Elemental Tarot, Caroline Smith, which is not traditional in any sense. Some decks I find will always give me a darker tone, sometimes morose feelings. If that happens I put the deck away and stop using it for divination, the Secret Tarot did this. Honestly, I've worked with most Goetia and my experiences were mostly pretty profound, though I did not follow the Solomonic tradition/instruction verbatim and I was pretty unorthodox in my practice. I agree with your statement regarding Goetia, though not all of them were previously gods, a few are of a different order entirely (In my experience) Edited October 4 by Lala Nila removed a "bad" word to maintain decorum haha 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
