Lost research: old daoist concept of cause and effect

[S:C]

Looking for a missing link in the search engine of the forums…

 

There has been an article shared some time ago, I guess authored by F. Pregadio, and I suppose @Geof Nanto either shared it in the thread, or was in the discussion, @Taoist Textsmight have been there too, I ain’t sure unfortunately. 
 

It mentioned how the old chinese / daoist concept of cause and effect differs from those known in the western world and that for a long time there have not been adequate synonyms for the western word concepts. I would be interested in the exact concepts they used back then, more interrelated and less abstract. It would look to the specific interactions and not to some universal principle of causality, if I remember correctly. 
 

Can anyone give a hint or point me somewhere? Thanks! 

[Taoist Texts]

6 hours ago, stellarwindbubble said:

, @Taoist Textsmight have been there too,

Hi, sorry i have no recollection of that but you can try this

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44160392

6 hours ago, stellarwindbubble said:

I would be interested in the exact concepts they used back then

 

https://terebess.hu/english/yichihwen.html

 

6 hours ago, stellarwindbubble said:

Can anyone give a hint or point me somewhere? Thanks! 

let me know if you have concrete questions

[Gerard]

This is how it works:

 

1, Qi blockages at all various levels.

2. Imbalances in the Five Forces/Elements creation cycle which is happening constantly within you even though you aren't aware of the process.

 

When you physically move on to the next incarnation you'll piggyback the above unless it has all been cleared out.

 

This is the cause & effect according to Taoism even though it isn't approached like that as opposed to the Hindu view of karma. 

 

[Geof Nanto]

On 12/09/2023 at 5:51 PM, stellarwindbubble said:

There has been an article shared some time ago, I guess authored by F. Pregadio, and I suppose @Geof Nanto either shared it in the thread, or was in the discussion, @Taoist Textsmight have been there too, I ain’t sure unfortunately. 
 

It mentioned how the old chinese / daoist concept of cause and effect differs from those known in the western world and that for a long time there have not been adequate synonyms for the western word concepts. I would be interested in the exact concepts they used back then, more interrelated and less abstract. It would look to the specific interactions and not to some universal principle of causality, if I remember correctly. 

 

I have no memory of that discussion. Was it me? If so, rather than Fabrizio Pregadio, could it have been a reference I made to Francois Jullien’s The Propensity of Things? That book comprehensively addresses what you are asking, whereas I have no recollection of reading anything by Pregadio that does (which is not to say he hasn’t written on the subject). 

 

There’s a good overview of Jullien’s book here: https://ingbrief.wordpress.com/2022/01/23/1995-francois-jullien-the-propensity-of-things/

 

Jung’s foreword to Richard Wilhelm’s translation of the Yijing is also well worth a look, as is the whole of that book. The Yijing is the foundational text that’s fundamental to the Chinese worldview.  And Jung likens the way it delivers its wisdom through the tossing of coins or the manipulation of yarrow stalks to the aspect of how reality functions he attempts to explain in his essay, Synchronicity: An Acausal connecting Principle.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Geof Nanto

[damdao]

I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but this references may help you:

This first is about karman properly speaking

"Between karmic retribution and entwining infusion", Maeda Shigeki in Daoism in History

 

https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=PAUg-Xelo-IC&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

Then, you have another chinese concept of cause and effect, more akin with magia sympathica, and that is 感应 or resonance, response, etc.

Huai-nan Tzu: Philosophical Synthesis in Early Han Thought, Charles Le Blanc

https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=iWjqAQAAQBAJ&printsec=copyright&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

and the Chapter VI of Huainan Zi that is the source of that concept.

[S:C]

Many very interesting sources, thank you all cordially! 
The text I mentioned wasn’t in your replies, but was grasped rather close  with what you wrote.