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4 hours ago, GSmaster said:

If qi is not a substance you cannot accumulate it, then neidan, neigong, magic, arcane arts, yoga, radja yoga, and 10.000 other internal arts traditions cease to exist, because their practice is based on qi accumulation.

 

You could study them to find out.

 

What you can find out is that Qi is just movement, and movement cannot be "stored".

 

This is not what is happening - "storage".

 

"Storage" of Qi just means able to maintain Jing - the Polarity that is causing Qi.

 

If you can maintain the potentials that movement happens within, you are maintaining Qi ability - the ability to have a movement in that polarity.

 

You can ruin your "inborn" potentials by ruining body polarities enough to lose structure.

 

You can change your "acquired" potentials by taking in food and other things

 

This is maintaining Qi ability - maintaining the polarities that cause movement.

 

The Essence of movement is Polarity.

 

The expression of Polarity is Movement.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Storage" of Qi just means able to maintain Jing - the Polarity that is causing Qi.

 

No.

 

They only work with jing in few traditions because it is the most dense qi which is easiest to feel.

 

Jing is an energy of 2nd chakra and below. 

 

Most traditions work with high level energies that have nothing in common with human body, sex, polarities and other kind of bs you have studied your whole life.

 

Those energies are the reason my third eye opened, and I can see stuff that you cant.

 

I have developed real siddhi abilities from a practice, and you only have theories articulated by some ppl in some universities.

 

We are open to every view there is, but where are results of your ultimate truth or practice?

 

Beyond I know the right, my teacher name sung jin woo, lineage is 500 year old, e.t.c

 

Edited by GSmaster
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11 hours ago, thelerner said:

'secret' isn't accumulation but circulation. 

Be a river not a lake.. ??

 

Its both, when you accumulate a lot it will widen the circulation, and when you circulate a lot it will accumulate.

 

If you do just one thing.

 

Accumulation without circulation is a blockage, and circulation without accumulation never ending bottleneck.

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Posted (edited)

I dont know who said that Chang only works with LDT and not MCO, when last time, I scanned him he had thunder type circulation, energy flowing like waterfall.

Edited by GSmaster
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4 hours ago, GSmaster said:

 

Its both, when you accumulate a lot it will widen the circulation, and when you circulate a lot it will accumulate.

 

If you do just one thing.

 

Accumulation without circulation is a blockage, and circulation without accumulation never ending bottleneck.

 that works for me. 

Sorry if you mentioned it earlier, is there any particular metaphor you use for chi? 

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6 hours ago, GSmaster said:

They only work with jing in few traditions because it is the most dense qi which is easiest to feel.

 

Jing is an energy of 2nd chakra and below.

 

Why make such pronouncements about things you've obviously never studied?

 

Why bring such incorrect junk to a group that discuss Taoism?

Jing is not "energy" or Qi. In terms of a body, it is the various polarities inherent in both the inherited and acquired Substance of the body.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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to chi or not to chi,

whatever the question

we're 10 pages of off topic by now

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Jing is not "energy" or Qi. In terms of a body, it is the various polarities inherent in both the inherited and acquired Substance of the body.

 

Polarity itself is a type of qi.

I dont care what you study and from whom, but you should open your eyes.

Edited by GSmaster

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5 hours ago, joeblast said:

to chi or not to chi,

whatever the question

we're 10 pages of off topic by now

original post is already deleted

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5 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

incorrect

Everything I say is correct and tested by ten thousands hours of practice and other practitioners. Plus unlike you I have 3rd eye that can see and verify qi real time.

 

Essence  > qi > spirit

 

Only reflects qi movement from low vibrations svadhistana to high vibrations ajna.

It is not a movement in a sense but is transformation.

 

While you could feel some lower grade qi, you cannot feel higher grade qi.

The reason why they only work with low grade or dont work at all.

 

Taoism does not have any high grade masters. 99.9% are stuck on level of svadhistana forever. Like Mantak. So no surpise that you can study and learn for 55 years and have no third eye.

 

I would open it in few years even for the dumbest of my students.

 

Guys who dont have 3rd eye themselves cannot open it for others. Same with all other siddhi and abilities.

 

Which is why so many people want to find JC.

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53 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

Polarity itself is a type of qi.

 

Please tell us what type.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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46 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

Essence  > qi > spirit

 

Only reflects qi movement from low vibrations svadhistana to high vibrations ajna.

It is not a movement in a sense but is transformation.

 

This just refers to the 3 body centers, the three Dantiens.

 

Lower one is Digestive and Reproduction functions. - Jing - effect your "constitution" & substance

 

Middle one is Circulatory and Respiratory functions - Qi - movement is happening

 

Upper one is Thinking and Nerve functions - Shen - "spirit" - stuff you cannot see happens here

 

These are not physical substances. Jing is not a substance. Qi is not a substance, and Shen is not a substance.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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9 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Please tell us what type

 

yin qi yan qi

 

9 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

These are not physical substances. Jing is not a substance. Qi is not a substance, and Shen is not a substance.

 

 

May be you dont understand what substance is? Everything you can calculate or see is a substance, it is a matter.

 

Even thought in your head is a material stuff.

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It may not seem this way, but answering the question "what is qi?" has already lead you into a trap.

 

The trap was actually set by Aristotle...

 

But without getting into history, consider the assertion that "grass is green"... seems obvious - but what if you're colour blind? What if the colour of the light shining on the grass is orange? What if "you" aren't human - but perhaps a snake or a dog or a cricket...

 

So, in reality, all we can say about grass is that "grass appears 'green' to the human eye under specific light conditions"...

 

Perhaps it's Von's engineering/scientific background that has him reaching for an "is" for Qi... Actually, he's quite right in some contexts... Qi isn't some magical substance or 'force'... But similarly, Qi is not just the interplay of polarities...

 

Qi is a word that is used. It means different things under different circumstances and within different contexts. The Qi of Feng Shui is different to the Qi of Taiji which is different to the Qi of Qigong which is different to the Qi of Chinese Medicine etc etc...

 

Qi is not a descriptive term - but an operational term. As in it's a term that is useful to use to describe certain processes. The term Qi isn't true, as much as it's useful.

 

The most 'accurate' explanation of Qi that I have is "Qi is transformative information in action"... not particularly useful, but 'true'...

 

But there is not reason to try to get a 'truer' picture of these arts... The mental model of Daoist arts is already perfect... there's no point in translating things into more 'scientific' forms - this isn't science in the same way - it's not looking for truth, but utility.

 

So in terms of contexts... at certain stages of Neigong, when the Qi is sufficiently dense, it behaves just like a substance. IS it a substance - no - it's still 'change-information', but to all intents and purposes it is also a substance (just as light is also particles)... If you've ever experienced the movement of Yin Qi or Yang Qi in your body - or had it transmitted, there is no question about its substance-like properties.

 

In fact in Alchemical thinking, everything has an underlying 'substance'... or an aspect that appears as if it's a substance... Including the mind and consciousness.

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1 hour ago, freeform said:

 

But there is not reason to try to get a 'truer' picture of these arts... The mental model of Daoist arts is already perfect... there's no point in translating things into more 'scientific' forms - this isn't science in the same way - it's not looking for truth, but utility.

 

So in terms of contexts... at certain stages of Neigong, when the Qi is sufficiently dense, it behaves just like a substance. IS it a substance - no - it's still 'change-information', but to all intents and purposes it is also a substance (just as light is also particles)... If you've ever experienced the movement of Yin Qi or Yang Qi in your body - or had it transmitted, there is no question about its substance-like properties.

 

In fact in Alchemical thinking, everything has an underlying 'substance'... or an aspect that appears as if it's a substance... Including the mind and consciousness.

 

Nothing is perfect, saying smth is perfect is like admitting you are wrong.

 

When Qi reaches critical mass it behaves like substance, so you just verified that qi is substance, same as light, sound, air and so on.

 

Just because the substance is 1 out of 100.000.000 its transparent, or you cant see or monitor it, with any pgysical objects, it does not mean it is not a substance.

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5 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

When Qi reaches critical mass it behaves like substance

 

Yes - kind of. Although I'd call it density.

 

6 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

so you just verified that qi is substance

 

It behaves as a substance - not IS a substance. Being precise here matters.

 

But you're right that it has substance like qualities... Yin Qi has magnetic qualities (but isn't magnetism) and Yang Qi has electric qualities (but isn't electricity).

 

Sounds to me like Vonkrankenhaus hasn't come across any real practitioners of Qi emission - but this stuff exists and is no big deal once you get into certain circles. Also lots and lots of fraudsters too.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/17/2019 at 6:42 AM, GSmaster said:

I dont know who said that Chang only works with LDT and not MCO, when last time, I scanned him he had thunder type circulation, energy flowing like waterfall.

 

Hot waterfall?

 

Edited by Starjumper

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13 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Lower one is Digestive and Reproduction functions. - Jing - effect your "constitution" & substance

 

Middle one is Circulatory and Respiratory functions - Qi - movement is happening

 

Upper one is Thinking and Nerve functions - Shen - "spirit" - stuff you cannot see happens here

 

While these concepts do apply in some slight ways, it misses 98% of the real thing.  I say it is 'fundamentalist'.

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Posted (edited)

I did the MCO once, and it was like a big patch of heat, bigger than a foot, that slowly went around the circle, took about an hour.  Inside this big sphere of hotness, I could feel that a lot of energy was flowing within it.  It felt quite nice.

 

Then for a couple of days after that I felt weaker and I realized that doin' the MCO via mental jerking off is like throwing energy down the toilet and is fundamentalist bullshit.  At least for those on the path of real nei kung, the Taoist path of the wizard.  At this point I'll say that anyone who thinks they feel a lot of energy by doin' the MCO all the time actually is clueless as to what a"lot of energy" can possibly mean.

 

So ya:  

Mental jerking off, check.  

 

Feels nice, check.  

 

Feel weaker later, check.

 

Same as the physical way, check.

 

Bunch of jerk offs!

 

I hope ya'll don't feel to insulted if I call 98% of you a bunch of loooosers  :)

Edited by Starjumper
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7 hours ago, freeform said:

The Qi of Feng Shui is different to the Qi of Taiji which is different to the Qi of Qigong which is different to the Qi of Chinese Medicine etc etc...

 

Have you ever studied any of those things you mention?

 

No. Obviously not.

 

Qi is just movement in a polarity. It isn't a physical thing or substance at all. Not in any way.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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1 hour ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Qi is just movement in a polarity. It isn't a physical thing or substance at all

Radio on repeat even after proven wrong 999 times.

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7 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Yes - kind of. Although I'd call it density.

 

 

It behaves as a substance - not IS a substance. Being precise here matters.

 

But you're right that it has substance like qualities... Yin Qi has magnetic qualities (but isn't magnetism) and Yang Qi has electric qualities (but isn't electricity).

 

Sounds to me like Vonkrankenhaus hasn't come across any real practitioners of Qi emission - but this stuff exists and is no big deal once you get into certain circles. Also lots and lots of fraudsters too.

 

Its like blueprint which is just a schematic but once you put qi inside it come to alive and able to perform one or another function. 

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1 hour ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Qi is just movement in a polarity. It isn't a physical thing or substance at all.

 

:rolleyes:

 

I see stagnation has set in and the autopilot is taking over...

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10 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

after proven wrong 999 times.

 

Nobody here proved Qi is any specific thing or substance in any way.

Neither has anyone else, ever. 

 

That would be like telling us that "convection" is a physical object and not a process, or that "literacy" is something you can measure by the pound.

 

Qi is just movement. No movement = no Qi.

 

All you've proved is that you have never studied this subject matter at all.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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38 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

That would be like telling us that "convection" is a physical object and not a process

 

But you haven’t addressed the fact that it’s a process that has characteristics of a substance in certain conditions...

 

People get very flummoxed by paradox but that‚Äôs the nature of Daoist arts - constant paradox. We‚Äôre told that the Dao cannot be spoken about but then presented with 81 chapters on Dao... We‚Äôre told not to be drawn into ‚Äėbookish bedevilment‚Äô but then presented with countless classics and commentaries... We‚Äôre told that we must take no action, but then heavily trained using¬†difficult and strenuous activity...

 

So it’s a surprise to me that the paradox of Qi being purely a process and a substance at the same time is so unbelievable to some...

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