about Zhuangzi

[dawei]

it was a matter of survival, by using military strategy, rather than a balance of power.

 

IMO, they survive through a balance of power. The idea is that no one state becomes too strong. This occurs repeatedly as one state forges alliances and then there is a reaction to it. Wei dominated at one point but the rest realize they needed to fight a common cause to prevent the imbalance of power; which would keep them in the game.

 

But your right... survival drives them; but balance of power is the outcome they seem as a temporary measure until they can get more power themself.

[Mark Saltveit]

Just as true today -- the real tragedy of the (second) Iraq is that it upset a carefully wrought balance between Iran and Iraq, Shia and Sunni, and unleashed a bunch of fighting that continues in Syria and elsewhere.

[dust]

A number of thoughts having read through this thread, but I'll present the most recent one, as it's the only one I still remember.

 

 

There was talk of WWII, the Cold War, and wars in Chinese history being "Taoist" in nature

 

I guess that we can see the existence of war as just as in line with the Way as anything else that exists. Meaning that there's a time for everything, including death, decay, and war...

 

But, if we look at both the Laozi and Sunzi, avoiding war is the "most Taoist" way. To quote my own translation:

 

 

 

以衜差人今者 To conquer with the Way,

不谷以兵於天下 Do not desire to wage war;

善者果而已不以取 The good man achieves without force;

果而弗癹 Achieving without destruction,

果而弗喬 Achieving without pride,

果而弗矝 Achieving without pity,

是謂果而不 Is called achievement without force;

亓事好 This is good

 

 

China is an oddity in history, having -- since unification -- existed as one recognizable, consistent entity for so many centuries.

 

It's managed this consistency through dynastic rise and fall. And the cycle continues, even to this day: to my mind, there's very little about the CCP that one can't liken to the dynasties of old (notably, absence of eunuchs? ) -- it's the same cycle under a drastically redecorated mask.

 

This dynastic ruling cycle, and the way modern governments rule, is certainly not what Laozi talked about in ch.66:

 

 

聖人 The wise man

之才民前也以身後之 Stands ahead of the people by putting himself behind them,

亓才民上也以言下之 Above them by speaking as from below;

亓才民上也民弗厚也 Above them, yet the people feel not his presence,

亓才民前也民弗害也 Ahead of them, yet the people come not to harm

 

or 17:

 

 

大上下智又之 The great ruler is one of whom the people are aware;

亓卽新譽之 Next are those who are praised;

亓卽畏之 Next are those who are feared;

亓卽婺之 Next are those who are ridiculed;

信不足安又不信 When one is distrustful, he will be mistrusted,

猷唬亓貴言也 His most treasured words will be lost;

成事述功 If he manages affairs well,

而百省曰我自然也 The people will say, “We did it”

 

However, the dynastic cycle served to avoid as much war as might have happened in a fragmented land such as during the Warring States, and has exhibited one other element, at least, of Dao:

 

 

萬物方作居以頒復也 Life flourishes all around, living in coming and going;

天道熉熉 The Way of Heaven is balance,

各復亓堇 Everything returns to its root

[Marblehead]

Yep. It is in the roots where life begins and ends.