Debunking a Creator

[Rara]

 

If you two want your own thread to debate these issues we can sort that out, otherwise it would be helpful if you both stay on topic otherwise it is inevitably going to quickly turn into pointless trading of insults

This happens all the time. I seriously think we should just set up a cage fight to the death.

[Isimsiz Biri]

This happens all the time. I seriously think we should just set up a cage fight to the death.

 

Rara,

 

This sentence is not good for your spiritual development. Meditate. Serious.

[Rara]

 

Rara,

 

This sentence is not good for your spiritual development. Meditate. Serious.

Fair enough. I quite like my sense of humour...oh well

[RongzomFan]

As in Street Fighter "Fight!"

 

I love Hadouken http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadouken_(Street_Fighter)#Hadouken

 

Yes Street Fighter is inseperable from your Sufism:

 

Edited December 6, 2013 by RongzomFan

[Isimsiz Biri]

 

 

I am still laughing!!! Haahahahahah.

 

Where did you find it?

 

Anyway, trust me this is not even Tariqa level. In fact, they claim to be Sufis, yet they are not. Unfortunately, charlatans are every where.

[RongzomFan]

I am still laughing!!! Haahahahahah.

 

Where did you find it?

 

Someone else posted it another thread a few months ago.

[Isimsiz Biri]

This is real Sufi Dhikr (Zikr) Do not be misled by RongzomFan's funny video

 

Jerrahi Zikr in New York, USA 2002

 

Please refer to this video

 

Halveti Jerrahi Zikr performed by Sheykh Tosun Bayrak Al Jerrahi and his dervihes

at Chestnut Ridge, New York in June 2002.

(...Remember me, I will remember you) (Holy Quran (2:152))

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

Sohbet of Sheik Tosun Bayrak Al-Jerrahi, January 07, 2006. Chestnut Ridge, NY

 

PART I: The Creator of the cause and effect

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alp509bW3BI

 

 

PART II: The Creator of the cause and effect

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4G1ktcAYiw

Edited December 6, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

An interview with Sheik Muzaffer Ozak Al-Jerrahi on April 14, 1983

 

 

This interview with Louis Rogers was broadcast from William Paterson College Television Center in April 14, 1983. Sheik Muzaffer Ozak had many trips to US between the years of 1978-84 and introduced the rich legacy of Sufism through many talks and dhikr (rememberence) ceremonies to the West.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[RongzomFan]

There are only 3 options, all of which debunk a Creator:

 

1. Big Bang has no cause. Obviously, there is no Creator here.

 

2. The Big Bang has causes, which in itself has causes, which in itself has causes etc.

There is no place for a Creator in infinite regression of cause and effect.

 

3. Creator is beyond cause and effect. If Creator is beyond cause and effect, he would have no way of interacting with our physics.

[Isimsiz Biri]

There are only 3 options, all of which debunk a Creator:

 

1. Big Bang has no cause. Obviously, there is no Creator here.

 

2. The Big Bang has causes, which in itself has causes, which in itself has causes etc.

 

There is no place for a Creator in infinite regression of cause and effect.

 

3. Creator is beyond cause and effect. If Creator is beyond cause and effect, he would have no way of interacting with our physics.

 

Big Bang has a cause. Obviously, there is Creator here

 

There is no infinite regression of cause and effect. Listen to the videos.

 

Our physics is under command of Creator. Yet, our physics is very very undeveloped, not able to understand cosmology of God Almighty.

[RongzomFan]

Big Bang has a cause. Obviously, there is Creator here

 

Allah is Uncaused.

 

Something that in uncaused / unchanging is beyond cause and effect

[Isimsiz Biri]

Allah is Uncaused.

 

Something that in uncaused / unchanging is beyond cause and effect

 

Not at all. Creator created cause and effect.

[RongzomFan]

Not at all. Creator created cause and effect.

 

Then Allah is a changing being.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Then Allah is a changing being.

 

Not at all. Allah's creations, which are us, we evolve to be more close to Allah.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[RongzomFan]

Not at all.

 

You just said "Creator created cause and effect."

[Isimsiz Biri]

You just said "Creator created cause and effect."

 

Yes, I said. I know it is difficult for you to understand. In fact, your master knows this point very well but deceives you. This is the reason you are stuck. Resolve it with your master, Satan ah pardon, Mara in your terminology

[RongzomFan]

Yes, I said. I know it is difficult for you to understand. In fact, your master knows this point very well but deceives you. This is the reason you are stuck. Resolve it with your master, Satan ah pardon, Mara in your terminology

 

If a Creator creates cause and effect, he is a changing being like Brahma, the demiurge of Dharma.

Edited December 6, 2013 by RongzomFan

[Isimsiz Biri]

If a Creator creates cause and effect, he is a changing being like Brahma, the demiurge of Dharma.

 

Not at all. Your mind can not understand this as you think with Brahma, Dharma, etc. In fact, this is exactly a Zen koan.

[Isimsiz Biri]

A video for RongzomFan.

 

It talks about Rumi and his message love. As love is very alien to RongzomFan, it may help.

 

 

A lecture on Rumi and his message of love by Omer Tugrul Inancer

 

Tugrul Inancer's lecture on Rumi delivered at Harvard University, MA on March 1st, 2013

 

Edited December 6, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[RongzomFan]

Not at all. Your mind can not understand this as you think with Brahma, Dharma, etc. In fact, this is exactly a Zen koan.

 

There is no difference between your views on Allah and Brahma.

[Isimsiz Biri]

There is no difference between your views on Allah and Brahma.

 

I am not interested in Brahma at all. It is your business.

[RongzomFan]

I am not interested in Brahma at all. It is your business.

 

Brahma has always been a metaphor for this whole issue.

 

Thats the point of Brahma.

 

He is not an actual being.

[Isimsiz Biri]

For everybody, please read

 

 

Sufism and Taoism: A Comparative Study of Key Philosophical Concepts by Toshihiko Izutsu

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sufism-Taoism-Comparative-Philosophical-Concepts/dp/0520052641/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1386354807&sr=1-4&keywords=toshihiko+izutsu

 

 

You will see that Daoism and Sufism have many common points and you will be surprised. Do not believe RongzomFan's words.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

Brahma has always been a metaphor for this whole issue.

 

Thats the point of Brahma.

 

He is not an actual being.

 

I am not interested in Brahma. Full stop.