Follow-up on Kunlun; consequences? ?

[findley]

are you referring to the germinal vesicle?

 

huh... uhm, well, it is called many things-- however I have never heard it called that. I don't know what the germinal vesicle is...

[gendao]

Prior to arriving in China, my primary practice was spontaneous natural movement qigong. This was before I'd ever heard of Kunlun. Rather I learned it from a friend and it ranged from intuitive stretching and yoga postures to shaking, spiraling and twisting. Overall I really enjoyed it and opened up in new ways psychologically and emotionally.

 

Then I learned Vipassana meditation. I began to contain energetic currents that before I would have allowed to push and pull my physical body. I understood the dichotomy: interior stillness, exterior motion; exterior stillness, interior motion. I watched the ten thousand things rise, fall, and return to the origin.

 

When I arrived I was very curious about spontaneous movement qigong and asked many cultivators. Some simply said it's a side effect of energy cultivation best not to indulge in. Others said, as a tool, it's useful for resolving "xieqi" or pathogenic qi. However, everyone advised against it as a long term practice.

 

So if spontaneous qigong is so fast, so powerful - why don't you find it in the spiritual systems of India or China?

 

After further research, particularly of African religions, I discovered there where cultures that practiced spontaneous movement systems. But their main objective is different - it's possession. In Africa and other shamanic cultures, dancing, shaking, spontaneous practices exist to invite the spirit or gods into your body.

PS. On cathartic experiences, every system will produce them. But they aren't discussed as such in the classics. The old sages tended to be rather stoic - at least on the bamboo slats, scrolls, and stones. However, eating bitter (suffering difficulty) is mentioned a great deal, and any study of Daodejing should reveal the life of a sage was far from easy.

 

PPS. Quieting the mind and the mysterious pass are different stages. For example at quiet mind, the ears still hear, but the mind doesn't rouse; at genuine stillness, the ears do not hear.

My friend told me a Korean master basically told her the same thing.

 

He had initially done a practice similar to Kunlun/Red Phoenix and experienced some powerful effects, but ultimately decided he was utilizing his energy better by switching to a more "internalized" practice moving energy up and down his spine. However, I think his initial "spontaneous" practice still served its purpose and him well - got him in touch with his energy and probably did some heavy clearing.

Edited August 6, 2009 by vortex

[松永道]

I believe that the only real fruit emptiness may bear, is that it may induce the recognition of the mysterious pass in the practitioner. Unfortunately, I also believe that clinging to emptiness practice will more likely serve to HINDER such progress, as one CLINGS to emptiness. (BLOCKHEAD Zen practitioners.)

 

I actually came to my teacher with this problem some time ago. At the time, I was delving deeper and deeper into stillness, but found studies - Chinese language, Taijiquan, Chinese Medicine - they all stimulated my mind, incited my competitive desires, and certainly disturbed the empty mind I was clinging to.

 

The answer he gave was simple and concise, though I'll convey it in form of metaphor.

 

The mind is like a muscle. All muscles need to flex and relax. Effective muscles move between great flexion and great relaxation and they do so quickly. The mind needs to concentrate and relax, to act and not act. The more thoroughly and quickly the mind can embrace and move between these states is its measure of effectiveness.

 

Zen blockheads, the "wooaaah totally zen" dudes have relaxed their minds. Relaxed like the atrophied muscles of a couch potato.

 

Cultivation is Taiji, an art of moving between great extremes gracefully. Concentrated like a laser or diffuse like a soft light, sages suit the situation.

[松永道]

My friend told me a Korean master basically told her the same thing.

 

He had initially done a practice similar to Kunlun/Red Phoenix and experienced some powerful effects, but ultimately decided he was utilizing his energy better by switching to a more "internalized" practice moving energy up and down his spine. However, I think his initial "spontaneous" practice still served its purpose and him well - got him in touch with his energy and probably did some heavy clearing.

 

Here's to using the right practice at the right time.

 

It's hard to stop using what worked, even if it stopped working.

[Guest winpro07]

some people are very quick so don't worry how long you are in a posture. If your arms go down that is just as good. There is a point with Kunlun and retention where sexual energy becomes ever increasing and the no more need to retain. Just relax more and more

Hello Friends,

 

I am new to Kunlun and mainly practicing through the book for the las t week. Please be patient with me and advice.

 

Anyone here who has not received the transmission from Kunlun teachers, practicing from the book and still having some level of success with the practice?

 

I am trying hard to go with the 100 days retention but can't go beyond 3 or 4 days. Without transmission, is this a big hindrance?

 

I try to hold the kunlun position but by the time my legs begin to slightly tremble, my hands and shoulders ache real bad and I am forced to drop my shoulders to rest. I rest my hands in closing posture and go back to kunlun pose after a while and again within minutes my hands begin to ache. With all this ache, I cant let go and I am focussed on the pain than anything else. This way, I never get beyond some slight trembling of legs. Any advice?

 

 

huh... uhm, well, it is called many things-- however I have never heard it called that. I don't know what the germinal vesicle is...

Agate in the head that doesn't exist until it does and a hallway lead downwards to another room tha doesnot exist until you are there heaven appears on the earth

 

some people are very quick so don't worry how long you are in a posture. If your arms go down that is just as good. There is a point with Kunlun and retention where sexual energy becomes ever increasing and the no more need to retain. Just relax more and more

A gate in the head that doesn't exist until it does and a hallway lead downwards to another room that does not exist until you are there heaven appears on the earth