Rara

Some members here once upon a time were very strictly "philosophical", and to be quite honest, when I first landed here I was too. I think a lot of this comes from our new way of thinking in the west - questioning religion and their frameworks makes us want to depart from anything that has that label. Said label is the problem. Religion is such a different thing in the far east that it is difficult for us born in the west to comprehend it. It takes some serious cup emptying. As I practiced more, I realised that I didn't just have a philosophy. Everything was a "practice", so therefore I had the theory and application as one. Maybe some of the philosophical types will come to this realisation if they continue on this path. There is no distinction between the two. Only people that want to have a distinction will have one, and will be missing half of their training in the process 😉

Hello and welcome The main difference I notice is that "philosophical" Daoism gets interpreted in a way that suits our culture and way of thinking. It can clash with traditional Daoist teachings from the "religious" side of things because they have belief systems that we are totally alien to, and really, have no business getting involved with anyway. Yet everything is Dao. So it doesn't really matter, when you're on your Way, you will integrate what is necessary.

8x6 is all you need max. I'm trying to understand how much you are doing but to me, that looks too much!

Anger goes away when you constructively deal with a situation that bothers you. The environment around me right now is full of anger, and it is unavoidable as I have to operate out there, no choice in the matter. Find pragmatic ways to avoid the fight, and if adversity does come your way, pacify as best as possible. Then rant to your friends on the phone about it. Or here

Hey, good questions. I'll answer the best I can 1. This depends on what you mean by "Daoist". One can identify as Daoist simply by reading the Daodejing and trying to apply it to life. Just like there are levels in which people are "Christian", from those that just read some bible before bed, to priests and monks. Same same. 2. If you are looking to be initiated into something, you are looking at finding a temple that will take you but there are some that are quite open these days if you show you are capable and willing. What is it you are looking for? Because full temple life is not quite for me, but my school is a martial arts school. That doesn't make me any less "Daoist", it just has me where I need to be at my current stage of cultivation. 3. I don't know, and I personally don't believe in most of it. Until anyone show me otherwise, I see this or any sort of divination outside of ancestor worship a deviation from the Dao. You'll see a mix up with other eliments of Chinese culture these days, so rituals for wealth etc. but I don't care for all that. 95% of what you'll see will be a scam or superstition. Blessings and exorcisms are very real, speaking from experience, but without getting to technical, that's not all supernatural haha. More on that later. 4. No. That's because the real result is what happens inside YOU. True Daoists do not care for labels, and if you do find an organisation, that just makes you a part of an organisation. However, that could well be more beneficial to you to help you cultivate. 5. Yes, and it's a pain in the arse. It was a bit of both, I was curious like you...seek and you shall find. In the end, it's they who get you and it's quite overwhelming. Although, the nice ones are great, the whole thing is pretty tiring if you don't know what you're doing (which I didn't and still don't really, although I've learned along the way so at least all is calm now) Do they care about us? Hm, long story short is yes unless you leave them alone, which is what I advise! 6. It isn't as exciting. I don't know which media you're talking about in particular, but if it's fire out of the hands or dudes with long white beards kicking the hell out of 100 men, then yeah, not that. But if you want to feel qi, be in good health, feel connected to the heavens or to be able to at least be able to kick above head height as an 80 year old, it might be a good path for you.

Well, I did read, but yep...you've made a good decision here 😁

And of course, if one isn't aware of having mental health problems and is not showing any sign, then Goenka isn't to know of course. But this is the risk of being in the "alternative therapy" business. "Psychics" that do what they do for a living...legally they have to go down as an entertainment business to help avoid accountability. Therapies can't do this, so this is why I'm very careful and advocate teachers who have less bold claims and are not trying to really sell anything.

Unless you're Steve Jobs. Er. Yeah. 😝😂

Thanks, evem though that was a grim read, it's worth noting. I am moreso wondering what is meant by "depersonalization" in particular.

Yeah, I made a pact with the devil in me. He gets to stay, just has to shut up at the most important of times. I can entertain him when I'm alone.

Indeed. Simple time outs to understand situations and other perspectives is very useful. I used to have a counsellor, which was great but now I don't, a bit of time talking things out with myself does the trick haha

This was deep, thank you. Could you go more into "depesonalization" with examples?

Yes, my tai chi teacher in England won't teach meditation, saying it's too risky and quotes the "qigong madness". Bearing in mind that most in my class are 50+, they get what they need just coming along and going through the motions. Our qigong is quite basic, relaxing with no real intensity...unlike the Longmen Pai qigong I do which puts me on another planet - so I only do that on a really empty day. Meditation I learnt with Longmen was wonderful when there, but I couldn't sustain it for long when back home. Too many distractions and it is such a discipline that it started stressing me out not being able to get back to "that place". These days, I use it on and off when I feel it necessary, but I would much rather do it in the safety of their presence, or as a regular practice maybe when I'm retired. Back to my teacher here, she does say just going for a lie down for 45 mins in a dark room does more good. Maybe stick some music on, if you ask me.

I vouch for this. Meditation is horrible when things are not good. When things are, then it works like it should, but it's situation depending.

Sure. I go as far as to call myself an "insomniac", but given the fact that I've always been creative, worked shifts and lived nightlife voluntarily to perform to people, it is no wonder. Interestingly, when I was in China, I adopted the "lights out at 10pm" rule quite successfully. I had nothing else to do but fall into the rhythm of my school. They would get me up at 4.45 anyway, so I had no choice but to sleep those hours. When I came back, I lost my rhythm again. So it depends what you do generally by day, because the structured schedule works easily enough if you're already in a routine to adhere to and there is nothing particularly to stress you. If you have no routine in place, often set by say a job/family or a kung fu school, sleep cycles can get weird. A slight change in psyche due to external factors will affect you - the pandemic and its knock-on effects may well have played a role in the back of your mind. There could be some sort of anxiety buried there that you're not fully aware of. Waking in the night with sweats, makes me think that it is to do with something changing in your life. Many times has this happened to me, and it persisted because I feared it would happen again, so it did, and became a routine in itself. It passed eventually, but you never know when it will. You can't really consciously change these things, it doesn't work like that. So now, are you ready for controversial answer B? I tried the "leaving screens alone after a certain time" thing and it never worked for me. So I started watching TV again before bed because I figured, either I'm wasting time lying around, tossing and turning, or I'm wasting time enjoying something. Watching comedies puts me in a good mood, makes me drowsy, and I can eventually go upstairs and drop off. If I wake in the night, I do the same sometimes if I'm particularly wired. If I am closer to a more godly hour, I'll start my day and just do longer taiji sessions in the morning. Answer C A member on this forum suggested to me recently that it could even be a cycle associated with the Chinese zodiac. Sometimes our need to sleep will differ depending in what the moon is doing. I know nothing about this sort of thing, so short of you going to see a master, I wouldn't think too much about this. I like to roll with it though, because it means I care less and forgive myself for having weird sleep patterns. I can just dismiss it as a problem, and that helps my energy anyway. As long as I get everything done in my day, does it really matter? So there's a few things for you to reflect on based on your lifestyle. It's hard to point in a certain direction not knowing how you live in general because it will always be different for all individuals.

Yes, see what you get after you try the above. Hopefully it works oit for you. I might have some other ideas as to what's up/why it might not be a serious problem otherwise...that requires more of a Q&A about your lifestyle though.

That's a point. For anyone with any sort of anger issue, I would certainly point more towards bioenergetics, yelling in a controlled environment, song and dance etc. Sometimes you gotta purge before anything.

Since the pandemic? I started baking delicious cakes. I then had to start giving most of them away because I live alone and indulged a little too much. Now I make Chapatis 😋

You go to a good school and got a girl? You have natural talent Low willpower is hardwired, especially as we get older as it is more of a "sticking to what you know" sort of thing. I think the best approach is to find a discipline which is instructor led, like a class (not necessarily an energetic practice. Could be tennis.) Just something once a week to commit to which is outside of your norm. Something you tell yourself you have to go to without fail. It's not a huge commitment, but the real test comes a month, two months, twelve months down the line. To still be there by then will show great progress and you'll learn more about yourself and your capabilities.

Wow, I stumbled upon this when searching for energy cultivation techniques - I've been looking for a Taoist forum for a while now I began practicing Taoism about three years ago around the same time I started Wing Chun. I grew up in a very "do what's expected of you" town and later moved out to university but still carried my old values. I found myself lashing out regularly and suffering from terrible anxiety...so I searched for reasons why everything felt like such a struggle...then suddenly, I guess I fell into this, and very quickly, life became magical. Funnily enough, I always wanted to find my own way from birth, but struggled in a town with such closed-minded people...and when I found Taoism, I felt that I had just returned to something that was already me....like a twin separated at birth only to be reunited. I look forward to learning form you all here and hopefully I can throw some of my own wisdom into the mix!

Daniel, the feeling is mutual. It's crazy that you found this thread as I don't even remember it! I've read it all back and its made me realise how far I've come and also remembered some others here are in my country. Some updates: Wing Chun no more, it's been all taiji for years now. Girlfriend no more, unfortunately we drifted apart. I've made a lot of progress on the anger front, although there are elements in my life that really do make this hard for me. It hasn't gone away at all, but I'm now able to sit with it, even at the worst of times, and let it pass. I'll see you kicking about the forum, I'm sure. I do most of my postings in Daoist Discussion, only occasionally in others. Hope you enjoy your time here.

Nice and simple, I like that I admit, my "hunger" for such things is diminishing. I'm curious to know what performing you were doing, as this is (was?) my world in music or being on the road in the events industry. It's pretty ungrounding and I think I might be slowly exiting stage left.

Even an atheist friend of mine has started shaking his fist at the sky, or praising it, depending on what's been going on in his life. He needs to let all that s*** go! @dawei I want to say thanks for all your work here as it has been so useful for my return to this text. I first read the text about a decade ago and absorbed a little. A few years later, I read it again and absorbed a little more. This year, it feels like I have read and absorbed 10,000 things. Beautiful dedication to the late @Marblehead, I did notice his missing presence a few chapters ago and I could feel his departure like it was the present. MH, time is an illusion, my friend. I look forward to seeing you again when I return to The Book of Zhuangzi, whenever that may be.

Yes, I'd like to ask a question about relevance in this day and age. I have always read this teaching (there are similar in the Book of Zhuangzi) as a literal instruction to not mingle with anyone outside of the close vicinity of one's home. Is this the main meaning?

In addition to the above, I'd like to point out the point here that is on the people as well, again striving and being distracted and having little concern about their own mortality.