Spotless

It is very dependent upon the nature of the gift. As well as the nature of the giving. Gifts such as “would you like an energy healing” can be given from the best of intentions but may be best to reject for uncountable reasons. Gifts of things or money are much simpler - but even they can be cumbersome. Perhaps more clarity in what you are presenting?

A body may sleep fully and yet have a prevailing awareness. This is not a reference to an instinctual awareness. Dwai’s desciption is quit accurate. Awaken has also previously mentioned the no dream aspect wherein we concur.

You are not speaking of Objectless Awareness - you are speaking of something much simpler - Unity Consciousness. Conscious Awareness without Object is beyond any inertia of object and in the immediacy of Pure Awareness This is not the case in Unity Consciousness.

I am not sure what you read but your phrasing is quite contentious. The shift you later describe is definitely a shift. It is also accompanied by no dreaming. One can listen to a podcast while hearing oneself snoring and your wife snoring and the dog moving all night long. Waking up is not like waking up - you open your eyes already awake and slide off the bed - no coffee needed to coaks you into the body - one’s awareness does not slowly come back - it never diminished. It is unique - your wife may ask a question in the darkness of night and you are completely present but we’re in objectless awareness and responsive awareness is immediate. I have not ruminated over a fuller explanation at this time but it is accompanied by a lightness - a very physical embodied sustained lightness.

The heading is quite misleading and forgive me for not reading through all of it. I am not familiar with the term Turiya but I have achieved this awakened state. It is rare to those un-awake but not so rare in those Awake. It has been six + years.

True Unity Consciousness can be as I stated the same - before Awakening it appears as stated above - it is just that while a great deal of personhood has relaxed from the position of separateness a great deal of the position of personhood remains - one has not awoken. As Awakening happens this Unity Consciousness then expands as positions and personhood inertia’s fall away. It is good to shy away from “this is the true unfolding and this is not”. The practice one has done - the accumulated refinement yields a vast spectrum in how the unfolding takes place. The tendency for the idea to occur that one has finished the process is more a testimony to the maturity of the person. The tendency to think unfolding has ceased may also be in that many who Awaken cease practice - as in some ways they are IN practice most or all of the time - but this can allow for considerable unfolding to slow a great deal and in many ways resemble nearly completed changing. The Awakening can be very great and abiding quite soon if not immediately with little or no wavering - that is not to say it is not disorienting - it could be disorienting or not - but abiding in the stillness and presence in some does not waver much if at all. It can also waft considersbly and so leveling out into full abiding feels like a solid plateau - and it is - just not finished by any stretch other than certain background elements.

Agreed A hot topic and an important one is the clear understanding that unfolding does not cease in Awakening. The emerging refocus has been Awaken and expand in Presence/Self. I don’t quite agree with: ”there is acutally "something" beyond that awarness.” It is in Self - Abiding Awakened Presence that further unfolding occurs. Also a note: Unity Consciousness can and often does preceed Awakening and can appear to be Awakening when it is far less. It is also possible to incrementally achieve it whereas it is quite rare in Awakening. Certainly some incremental happenings are at work in both but rarely does Awakening not at some point feel like it was a dramatic shift vs Unity is fairly frequently not a radical shift in one moment to the next. I am familiar with the interviews you mentioned. Many of the new workshops out there work toward Awakening directly and speak to continued work afterward in coming to abide in the often disorienting aftermath and then also go on to offer support in further settling and guidance in what may be in store. Without Awakening It is possible to consider one’s achievements to be considerably higher than believed. This is abundantly clear in those taken in by siddhis. While having achieved much - much is barred from them. It is also possible to have considerable achievement without Awakening. It is a tremendous help to have previous practice and an excellent basic foundation prior to Awakening. The refocus on Awakening is a real byproduct of so many now Awakening. It has changed teachings around the globe in many ways. High level schools that have been imbedded in ancient traditions are often unequiped for a student who goes off to a retreat and comes back awoken - because many groups do not have Awakened teachers but rather those “steeped in the teachings” which may or may not be helpful if no one is actually awake. Many very fine lineage teachers are not Awake and teach from good sense and innate and careful translation - but they often have little to nothing to offer a newly Awakened student - in fact they can be completely off in their directions and disquieting to the abidance. The emergence of these interviews and a collective of Awakened teachers of various traditions that can be looked up and contacted is basically a new and incredible phenomenon! When I was young the thought of even meeting such a person was a pretty incredible distant hope. You can now look one up and call them or arrange a meeting in person or via Skype/ Zoom etc. This idea can make some people’s stomachs turn - but it is true - many are true Awakened teachers and they are accessible until they are not so accessible. The fact also remains - many seekers are not really seekers - they are terrified of Awakening -?loss of self/personhood. It is common to want Awakening through personhood - throwing only “the trash” out. Personhood/identification never considers its best positions trash and so the grasp is held in epoxy.

Beautiful 😎🙏

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Mooji , Adyashanti, Tolle and Gangaji are among a few Awakened teachers that speak unwaveringly to Awakening. If you scoff do so with input of your choices of at least one living teacher who meets your criterion of Awakened. i would bet that Dwai and Steve would both agree with me on the above - as shocking as that my be 😎 Amma is another one though I have read little of her and heard little but we had quite a time together once very briefly.

When I suggested BatGap is was with the idea of the opportunity to hear now nearly 500 accounts of “ordinary” people that have Awoken. Time after time they explain in practically the same way what Steve, Dwai and myself have experienced. With slight variations these would be my exact words and I’m certain this is true for Dwai and it is easy to see from then on what is actually being said in so many teachings. In the batgap interviews many variations are discovered but there are quite a few underlying common element that lead to the awakening. And it is clear in their language if they have in fact Awakened - there a few in which they have not - but very few other than some where the interview was simply an interview with “an interesting person”. The negative reaction is a testament to just how much judgement is set off upon this stuff and how far off seekers are prior to Awakening. This is perfect 😎 Students walk in and out of these teachings all day with solid rock walls of “understanding” and EXPECTATION. The wilfulness is thick and the ear wax like epoxy. - Steve mentions a perfect simple bond with a teacher where little is said - I have had two teachers in my path and my relationship was nearly identical to his words. My most recent current teacher speaks no English - it was is never needed. Michael80 shared this - without any reference to who wrote it: Awareness of Presence or "Transcendental Consciousness" is the experience of expanded alert awareness along with profound peace and silence, either in the environment in activity, or deep within during silent meditation. There can be the feeling of detachment from the body/mind. It is a fourth definite state of consciousness unlike waking, dream or sleep. It is a precursor to the actual shift to Self-remembrance. Transcendental Consciousness is being awake to the silent peace and stillness that is the true nature of the Self. There can be many degrees of intensity and various levels of witnessing in trancendental consciousness, but the clear recognition by the Self of the Self has not yet occurred. There are millions of people around the world today experiencing varying degrees of presence consciousness.  States of Consciousness 'States of Consciousness' does not mean states of individual consciousness. It means states of Consciousness itself. Consciousness itself is an unbounded field of pure Awareness. There are distinct perspectivess of Consciousness of itself as it becomes more awake its total reality, and there are many levels of clarity of refined perception within each state. These states cannot be missed. Experience, knowledge, perception and reality are completely different in each, even though Consiousness always remains the same One Consciousness. Cosmic Consciousness or "Self Realization" is awakening to being Pure Consciousness itself. It is the first stage of Enlightenment. It is a very profound shift in your sense of being and existing, the sense of who you are. The sense of Self shifts from being the person you think you are, to being the unbounded field of Awareness itself in which the person and all perceptions exist. You discover that there is no separate individual sense of self at all. The separate individual self was an illusion that happened as a result of conditioning and the false identification with the individual body/mind. Your real Self has always been unbounded, infinite and free all along.  It is not an altered state of Consciousness. It is Being Consciousness Itself -- what you really have always been. It is not a temporary experience; it is a natural, permanent state of being. The innermost self awakens to the unboundedness of its Self and finds itself to be the silent source of everything everywhere. Even though this feels like the final step and there is nowhere else to go, it is actually only the first step in the unfoldment of Consciousness to itself.  Refined Perception in Cosmic Consciousness or "God Realization" is Consciousness' refined perception of its nature as the process of experiencing. It is the perception of the flow of divine intelligence responsible for all experience. The underlying mechanics of the process of creation is revealed. It is the experience of the flow of intelligence responsible for all thinking, feeling, perceiving, experiencing, and all form and phenomena everywhere in your entire field of perception. The cosmic dimension of the individual mind/body is revealed. It is a continually deepening process of refinement and unfoldment taking place perpetually within Consciousness, though experienced differently in each state. The shift to unity Consciousness and beyond can happen prior to the full unfoldment of the depth of experience of refined perception. Unity Consciousness or "Oneness" happens when the Self, the subject and unbounded underlying essence of all things, awakens to itself as being the objects and phenomena of experience on the surface of life. It is a transition from being the unbounded field in which everything thing is happening , to being everything everywhere in the range of perception and experience. "Consciousness is everything everywhere, and I am that Consciousness". The unbounded subject has remembered itself to also be all objects of perception. They are One. The unboundedness of the Self has entered into the mind, body, and environment. All objects in the surroundings, while remaining the same from the perspective of the senses, are experienced as my Self. The world is no longer an object in Consciousness. It is Consciousness itself. It is my Self. It is the oneness of experiencer, process of experiencing and objects of experience. All of the apparent boundaries in the world are found to be my own Consciousness in appearance. From this perspective, the world is experienced to be even more real, because it is constructed out of the material of Consciousness itself, out of my own unbounded Self. The environment is now seen as pure unmodified Consciousness in the guise of the objective modifications of body, world and universe. It is not that the world and universe are seen to be an illusion. The illusion is that the world and universe is an objcetive physical reality. It has always been Consciousness itself, my own Self, pure subjectivity. There is no longer any distinction between inner or outer. The outer is the inner, the inner is the outer. Everything everywhere is my Self. "I" am all that there is. Refined Perception Within Unity Consciousness or "Unity in God Consciousness" is a further refinement of perception from the perspective of being everything. Consciousness awakens, with further clarity, to the underlying mechanics of creation and experience. It awakens to the subtle mechanics of its own innate intelligence that is responsible for creating the appearance of all life everywhere. It is the same shift in perception mentioned above, to experiencing the refined cosmic dimension of the feelings, intellect, mind, body, personality, senses, and all objects of experience; but it is experienced from an entirely different perspective now, one of wholeness, of being all that is. It is experiencing the flow of finer flavours and layers of intelligence within the wholeness of Self. It is Consciousness awakening to its internal dynamics as the perpetual flow of itself experiencing itself. It is the experience of the ultimate reality of the depth of the Self, the totality of Consciousness, and it is all Divine.  Beyond Consciousness or "Brahman Consciousness" is a perspective prior to Consciousness, prior to Intelligence and prior to existence itself. It is neither Self nor non-Self, neither Existence nor non-Existence, neither Being nor non-Being, neither Consciousness nor non-Consciousness. It is the clearest experience of Reality. Words like universe, multi-verse, Absolute, Totality, Self, God, Being, Presence, Pure Consciousness cannot touch it. It is beyond description. It is pure Nothingness. From this perspective; the body/mind, the world and the universe are not just an illusion, they have never even come into existence. The ultimate reality of something made from nothing, is nothing, not something. The word "nothing" does not do justice to the supreme peace, perfect equanimity, unlimited freedom and total knowledge that It is. It is truly indescribable. It is exclusively self-evident to itself alone.  Refined Perception Beyond Consciousness or "Refined Brahman Consciousness" is a completely different perspective of the same refinement of perception that is perpetually happening in Consciousness. But, because it is prior to Consciousness itself, there is no perceiver, no perceiving and no perceptio in the same sense. It is perpetually swelling in all the same divine flavours and qualities of wholeness and love as experienced previously, only in a finer more exquisite delicacy and fullness, prior to differentiation or distinction. It is the subtle intentention within nothingness to know itself. It is Pure Divine Power. From this perspective, the effect--Consciousness itself, and the creative intelligence inherent in Consciousness which is responsible for the appearance of creation, is also uncaused; and as such, so too is all creation. It is beyond all understanding. Supreme Reality Another shift to an even deeper perspective occurs in this state when that Nothingness recognizes that divine power as its own pure Supreme Divinity that has been cloaked in the appearance of creation. That supreme divinity is the ultimate cause of all causes. It creates and appears as the sense of Being, Consciousness or Self; all divine creative intelligence, and all creation. It is pure divine radience. Refinement of perception of the universal body/mind continues in this state. Many of us here that have Awakened and not have considerable experience in the above. Some of us are far along in the above levels and know them well and without delusion. But talk of them on many levels is of no worth to the seeker and more often than not fills them with a sense that by careful reading they actually know something. My daily experiences are outlandish but I’ve become sick of words like awesome, incredible, immense, limitless, vastness, unbounded, etc etc etc - But I have no other words for this constant expansion and absurd energies. The first time I Awoke it knocked unconscious 3 other people in the room who only moments before were conversing with one another. The energies we absolutely beyond any slight previous comprehension and made a massive kundalini experience seem like peanuts by comparison and yet it was sustained in utter beauty and stillness. - It does nothing for a seeker to hear most of this stuff prior to Awakening. The basics of practice and the pointers to Awakening are the core of the teachings - they ARE the advanced stuff - (the secrets). The seekers have it backwards - they want to get past the basics and piece together in concept what is waiting for them. Nothing is waiting for “them” but the death of “them ness”

Go to Buddha at the Gas Pump BatGap.com I suggest trying 10 or 20 in Podcast form so you simply hear their words.

I thought a reposting of the original post might be helpful. what interests me is the wording I have no doubt that a teacher can use an existing lineage that is or is not his/her original - and certainly many such as Ramana utilized several lineages and teachings that worked in the present. The voice of words is more the interest- not “pretty” language but generally in the little things: We had another person here who Awoke - I cant say for sure but I think it was Dawg - many liked what he wrote which is great and we can still pull some of it up here. He used Conscious and Subconscious as primary words in his teaching. It was very well done and clear to me what he was saying - but it was also clear to me that those words we incredibly poor choices for conveying what he was saying to those as yet Un-Awakened. Stillness is a beautiful concept but in most teaching it conveys to the reader something quite different than what is trying to be conveyed. It is a very good word as is Silence but both are equally misunderstood by the lay reader or monk or mystic in general prior to Awakening. It is with this in mind that what is quite refreshing and effective is the utilization of newness in contemporary teachers. Not for the sake of newness or being original - but simply taking a bit of time to remember just how much they were so far off in the experience of coming to abide in Self and the prior concepts that they had formulated and often walled themselves in further with. There are no accounts that I am aware of (in this now) where the Awoken later expresses how it was even remotely how they thought it would be. And very very very very frequently they report a sort of astonishing but very disorienting experience. Assume whatever you wish regarding whether you think I am Awake or deluded - that’s fine. And it is true that some words and teachings work for some while others require something else - and some simply need religion and faith. It still remains and perhaps it always will remain that the pointings will be many miles from the mark - but this does not appear to be the case - as quite a few new teachers are pointing with new words and approaches and they are speaking more clearly and the results are at far greater levels than we have seen in centuries and perhaps all of known history - though this new efficacy is being seen everywhere in a true teachings. Again - you may think I’m nuts - and for those that need to argue that please just let us be here. For those that completely understand what I am saying and for those interested, I am interested in discussion on this.

Adyashanti is among several who have related this - that they can and have but now rarely Awaken someone by touch or direct transmission any longer - you may not consider him Awake or of a high enough level - but even so - the change is simply NOT what your findings and studies would lead you to believe - until it occurs - and then you will see how disorienting it can be - and how far from the words and concepts the experience is. And so in the group setting you have spoken of several times - a teacher would appear to need to know the group relatively quite well but it appears you were wondering if a teacher might just get them together and take them “there”. Actually - you have a very solid concept- and all in all it is very good - yet light years from actual understanding. Such a beautiful passage - it can be taken in so many ways. It has been a bit sideways but the conversation has been interesting and if it were to be kept entirely on Target I would have done this as a personal folder and related to you privately. Thank you for participating in earnest. Awakening is not something that is a physical object - nor is it a mind space- it is extremely easy to read vast amounts of literature on this and meditate for years and abtain to a considerable degree and believe in all sorts of things well founded in one’s discoveries and machinations. It is extremely possible to become quite lost in all of this and appear quite lost, possibly misguided, completely nuts and institutionalized. It also happens that some that have actually Awoken and came to Abide in a beautiful and very full Awakened Presence have been institutionalized for a time in the beginning - because of the disorienting and unrecognizable “new” state of Beingness. Even in many cases wherein the experience was beautiful and the person was not a threat to himself or anyone else - they were just bewildered and in many cases simply contacting normal channels in order to understand why they were suddenly and for so long completely without compunction to DO and had lost all interest in many of their previous passions.

Awakening is very much like this - except that one is utterly uncompromised or embarrassed - one is entirely liberated from such fear. And it is no brief moment - it is so completely ongoing with all the push and pull of personhood gone.

Teachers and sages find their way - or “their” way happens upon them. Who is to say what teaching is best for them to teach? Quite a number of enlightened teachers were /are able to confer Awakening upon individuals and many have reported that they quit doing it in general because invariably it was premature to the student. Students assume all Enlughtened teachers have all the projections and misunderstandings and pedestals that they “KNOW” they have while in fact they know nothing. Some - many - students do not seek a teacher that can transfer Awakening to them, they want pointers - some Enlightened teachers eat meat - some wear red and some black. If an Awakened Abiding and fairly settled teacher is called to teaching - it is not as one generally might assume - the teaching finds them. And the teacher does not care / is not invested in the teaching or the students - it is not done from a bleeding heart. It simply comes out of the teaching. It is not cold and unfeeling but it is not invested and calculating nor driven. Some teachers like or have attracted larger groups where certain teaching are more possible - some are teaching mostly one on one. (bye the way - I was not implying trance in what you are relating) The “friend” I mentioned is not a friend but rather an Awakened teacher that I met who has adopted KS but did not come from that lineage (in this life time). I also teach Qi Gong in a space where another Awakened teacher teaches what you are speaking about. You appear to to have a relatively specific idea of what grace is and how “it can be used” - it does not appear through me as a means to an end and I have no ends in mind. There are no goals here.

My answer is with the assumption that you are asking me if an Awakened teacher that does not have a lineage as you have mentioned above can - in my view - take on a lineage with the power and Grace expressed above. Yes - but - it is not necessarily the case. If one is actually Awake and abiding in Divine Essence - and they were moved to adopt such a lineage - the chances are quite high that none of what was mentioned would be a problem in the least. This is entirely in the makeup of what is manifest in that teacher. For some seekers very little guidance is needed and for some close proximity to a teacher is needed - for many a teacher and considerable guidance is needed. Some teachers will not be inclined to open transmission and in fact you might sit right next to them and not feel much at all - unless they open. And even then - the student awakens when it’s time and the teacher does nothing other than reside in Presence. Some teachers are inclined to a very wide variety of happenings and institutions spring up around them. Some teachings are very trance oriented and some teachers don’t trance at all and would not teach trance. Grace is over thought by students - we are all in Grace - yet wilfully sidestep it in the illusion. Grace dawns upon Awakening. Many aspects of Abiding Awakening appear to be Enlightenment while they are quite early on aspects of settled Awakened being. Even many absurdly “high” levels appear to be aspects of a settled abiding Presence. One does not have to be “Enlightened” in order to be at many levels assumed to be reserved only for those at Enlightenment. And then one can argue - or bring up the question - is there such state in its entirety or is it also and ongoing expansion. It is safe to say at some point one has entered Enlightenment - when one knows nothing it would be difficult to say what that would be.

In a full Awakening suffering ends. This does not mean either Enlightenment nor the end of work or change or hardship - suffering is the result of attachment/willfulness and when it ceases then even residual “attachment” is un-attached - one does not meander into futures and worry and extrapolations and mind loops and willfulness. (Though this does vary - certainly upon the level of Abidance - many waver considerably in the beginning years - particularly those that have been assisted and or engineered). You state above: ”To me, this awakening is just the start of the journey. Long ways to go afterwards. The challenges after the so called awakenings are much higher than before. One needs to let go and keep expanding to cope up with them. When they resist to let go, they suffer. Divine guidance is essential after the awakening.” I have not been speaking of “Awakenings” - that is a relative perspective and has nothing to do with actual Awakening. In the quote above it is not spoken from an Awakened state /Self. The push of willfulness to do, seek, improve has disappeared - not hidden - it is no longer. Divine Guidance/ Grace becomes one’s happening. Residuals of patterned “doing” and willfulness may still be found here and there - in fact in my experience so much was gone that it was surprising sometimes when things would emerge still patterned - but with very little to zero attachment to the experiencing of it. As an example - about two years ago someone stole around $10,000 from me. I was unaware that I could still become so angry - yet the anger did not linger long but it would come back when I saw or met with the person. It was a process that I watched over a considerable time. In another instance I found out I still had some automated negative feeling toward my father - but they had almost no energy on them. Then one day - I found out that all residual patterns toward my father had vanished entirely. I was not willfully surrendering, not “letting go” as in a “doing”. Far more often I am overcome with Gratitude and must in many cases sit or pull over the car or walk to solitude. Once when driving I pulled over and my wife asked what was up and I explained I could no longer drive and needed to close my eyes - not because of tiredness - the energies were incredible and the eyes became faucets. I have had meditation sessions where after getting up I have long streaks of white going down from my eyes - when I pushed on them they cracked - it was dried salt crystallized in tear streams. In the abiding Awakened /Self Divine Guidance is realized. It is what one is. The compunction to do ceases - it is a transition to happening - unimpeded intuitive presence. Movement in perfection. Imperfection is perfect - trying to bend it to one’s will has ceased. Constant attempts to push one’s projections as a square peg into a round hole is over. But the constant expansion is devastatingly immense - it nearly drops one to one’s knees and it does not stop at least it has not for some six years and shows no sign of letting up. I do nothing - some faint portion somewhat expects doing to resume - yet no doing is taking place - happening is taking place - Presence. I practice Qi Gong - my “students” practice with me though it appears I am also teaching Qi Gong. Constantly the subtle bodies expand and faint residuals fall away. I would agree “work” continues - in Awakening there is no doing in the “work”. And it certainly is possible to appear to go backwards or in fact go backwards or simply appear to be somewhat static in residual patterns.

An extraordinarily subtle point 😎

It is very different from “experiences” in general. I have had many of what would be called mystical experiences but Awakening is very different - if anything it would be somewhat close to taking mushrooms and morphine together but much more intense and sustained and beautiful.

KS? Not really sure what you are taking about with the words you are using. (kundalini shakti?)

I believe I agree with your point - Case in point: I personally know of one clearly Awakened teacher that teaches Kashmir Shaivism - he has become an expert of sorts and it is what his teaching consists of - but it is not part of anything he studied prior to Awakening (in this life) - it had nothing to do with his prior practice.

This is a concern - but for one who has Awoke it is not. But - it is certainly possible to believe one has awoken who has not. Precisely why wording is so important. If one has not awoken it is generally easily argued that it is a mind set or mind shift or mind mapping of some sort - it is very very clearly not. It is extremely possible and quite often the case that one opens into Unity Consciousness or Oneness and thinks they have attained Awakening - precisely because it entails many of the elements and feelings - and it can and does often take place somewhat gradually or even very gradually. For those that first open into Unity Consciousness and then Awaken the reports are consistent in that in Awakening a great deal more fell away that they had thought they had already moved beyond. It is generally quite easy to see someone speaking from Unity/Oneness who is not Awake vs someone who is.

Not actually sure what your question is - it could be viewed in several ways. There are the words set down on paper and various translations and then there is the living lineage in the various schools and masters teaching it and there is also the resonance and powers that come with it.

This is not about “awakenings” and “realizations” and “openings”. From that standpoint do think in terms of reaching Enlightenment and go back from there to “complete and sustained sudden falling away of the ego centric self” generally - it happens fairly rapidly - in the vast majority of cases. It is not an “experience” - it is a very considerable shift.