manitou

I'm just going to have to assume you're a highly evolved ax murdered doing time somewhere who has a whole lot of time to think about this stuff.

I have an old book called Advanced Course in Yogi Philosophy and Oriental Occultism by Yogi Ramacharaka; as with all the important books I've got, I found this one at a yard sale. It was published in 1904. There's one section that deals with the removal of character defects within us; I've never seen anything written about this quite as well; "The brute instincts are still with us, constantly forcing themselves into our field of thought. Occultists learn to curb and control these lower instincts, subordinating them to the higher mental ideals which unfold into the field of consciousness. Do not be discouraged if you still find that you have much of the animal within your nature - we all have - the only only difference is that some of us have learned to control the brute, and to keep him in leash and subordinate and obedient to the higher parts of our nature, while others allow the beast to rule them, and they shiver and turn pale when he shows his teeth, not seeming to realize that a firm demeanor and a calm mind will cause the beast to retreat to his corner and allow himself to be kept behind bars. If you find constant manifestations of the beast within you, struggling to be free and to assert his old power, do not be disturbed. This is no sign of weakness, but is really an indication that your spiritual growth has begun. For whereas you now recognize the brute, and feel ashamed, you formerly did not realize his presence--were not aware of his existence, for you were the brute himself. It is only because you are trying to divorce yourself from him, that you feel ashamed of his presence. You cannot see him until you begin to be "different" from him. Learn to be a tamer of wild beasts, for you have a whole menagerie within you. The lion; the tiger; the hyena; the ape; the pig; the peacock, and all the rest are there, constantly showing forth some of their characteristics. Do not fear them - smile at them when they show themselves - for you are stronger than they, and can bring them to subjection - and their appearance is useful to you in the way of instructing you as to their existence. They are an amusing lot, when you have reached the stage where you are able to practically stand aside and seem them perform their tricks, and go through their antics. You then feel strongly that they are not YOU, but something apart from you - something from which you are becoming rapidly divorced. Do not worry about the beasts - for you are the master." Is this not rather wonderful??

2netis, what an enlightened post that was. I'd give it a plus 100 if I could, but I think I'll just hit the button once. I'd like to ask you - "It is almost a cliche now but it is still true that the Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao. This is not the intellect working here but it is an intuitive mind that has reached the end of thinking" Did you mean to say that the intuitive mind picks up where the intellect ends? You get to be "God" but certainly not the Abrahamic one. What a statement. I love it. The only difference is that the Abrahamic one was the one with the rampant ego. If and when we are able to get down to the god pool it can only be done by leaving ego hanging in the closet. I don't think that old fellow got the message, what with him being so jealous and all.... If you love the sacred and despise the ordinary, you are still bobbing in the ocean of delusion." This is wonderful. There can be no differentiation. I love Rainbow Vein's new avatar because it's so....well....ordinary and pedestrian, yet there is profound wisdom that can be gleaned from it. To embrace the ugly with the beautiful, even death with life. Not much to be afraid of if we can manage to incorporate that into the equation.

That's the very city I come from, the one you flew through. That's the very reason I live in a small farm house in rural Ohio. Can't say much for the winters, but oh well. You can't have it all. I can't believe I did what I did for all those years. My nerves are paying for it now, though. The only thing that brings me down is meditation - actually Be Here Now is the only way I can tolerate my own stress disorders. If I'm engaged in mental gymnastics off on a train of thought, my foot will start twisting around, or I'll start chomping down on my jaw. The inner dialogue is ridiculous and is certainly capable of generating the stress for us! What is it that you do now, that you love so? Barb

What jumps out at me is when you mention Heaven (the forces that influence any decision on the challenge, but cannot be easily influenced). You can look at it in exactly the opposite way too. Those things above the ground, (those things which pass day by day, 'Heaven') can't be easily influenced, but a smart general is sure going to use all of those elements to his advantage. Sort of like foraging for food, as mentioned earlier, rather than bringing too many provision carts; only he's foraging for the element of Surprise. He's using serendipity as a tool. Maybe this equates with gathering the energy into the dantien, in a cosmic sense. He's doing this in a physical sense, bringing the energy in its physical manifestations to his army (the dantien).

This is so incredibly succinct. Where have you been??? Lurking??? I share your thoughts about Jesus, if there was indeed such a man. He taught Oneness and enlightenment, if one considers that the Nag Hammadi gospels have any genuinity. No small wonder that the church stepped in to squash that line of thinking. Better to keep 'em scared of damnation. Pay your fee and join the club now, get out of hell later.

You've got it, friend. It's a process of going in to self, combined with correlating all the stuff you've read about. They merge together at some point and you'll probably find that you've adopted a little of this, a little of that. It seems like we're all a hodge podge here. This is a good thing. To get out of the construct of a particular thought-bubble is essential to awareness. All the paths you've researched will add a bit of color to your painting. Please join us in the Tao te Ching book studies, we're currently on chapter 23. The beauty of studying what the Sage does is it enables us to apply it to our everyday lives. This is a very valuable work. Many people, when they find the Tao, are exhausted from all the various spiritual constructs s they have had to eliminate from their mindset. If that's the case, this is the time to delve into yourself in a different direction. I think the easiest way to start the self-realization process is to list every negative trait you can think of (selfishness, jealousy, etc) and write down to what degree you have it. You have some of all of them, probably, if you're like the rest of us. That small action, the WILLINGNESS to admit we're not perfect, seems to start a process that continues of its own volition. It sets up a series of internal Aha!'s that will keep tunneling down for years. Ultimately it will get you to the source, where this all magically merges. the Aha's are the connect-up between your brain knowledge (research and reading) and your heart knowledge (actual experience). Be relentless on yourself and don't make excuses. It will pay off. Your voice is most welcome here! Thanks for posting...

Nice topic, Infinity. I had an interesting thing happen this morning at Tim Hortons when we went for a cup of coffee. This place is always crowded. One of the more vocal folks who goes there each morning is a Presbyterian minister named Mark. (Mind you, I'm in the bible belt of Ohio). He reaches out to his "flock" everywhere - every time I see him in Hortons, he's got part of his flock around him and he's holding court. Seems like an awfully nice fellow, but way to zealously religious for the tastes of anyone in this forum. I've always avoided him, judged him rather cavalierly because "that's where I came from, I've evolved way beyond this now." What kind of crap judgement is that? I watched him this morning, one more prosthelytizing to the people sitting at his table. I actually felt a little love for him this morning, I don't know why. Maybe I was just in a really good place. In fact, I walked up to him and introduced myself, told him I wanted to talk to him some time in the future. His eyes of course lit up like stars, thinking a new lamb was potentially coming into the flock. What I do want to talk to him about are some of the things we talk about here. How does he get his flock to be aware of the inner work? Does he care about the inner work at all? When I mentioned it, he said "Oh yeah, that's the holy spirit", but then he changed the subject. I think a nice long loving conversation with this fellow could go a long way to planting a seed in this arrogant little Christian area. Like a new ripple in a pool. He seems like such a nice fellow, I'll bet he'd be receptive to the idea. Now I'm excited to talk to him. I feel no more judgment. I am a little more liberated today.

I like the analogy of the greatest music in the world is the silence while the conductor raises his baton. The possibilities are endless.

Aaron, this is about the most beautiful thing I've read on this forum. I absolutely agree with you. At some point we come to understand that beliefs are merely constructs of a mindset that we wish to wear. It is necessary to get under the beliefs to the Knowing. I see it as a vibrating golden pool that we all have access to, if only we can get our buckets down the well far enough. The well is symbolic for our inner journey of self-realization. When this point is reached, there is no need to consciously love ourselves because by dipping our scoops into the golden fluid we are infused with love and have no need to artifically create it. But you are absolutely right about self love - we initially have to break through the barrier of self-loathing, if there is any, to get through it. This is the hardest nut to crack of all. Thank you for your thoughtful post. The pool is always there and waiting. I choose when I want to put my scoop in it.

Good comments in this thread! I agree, it's absolutely necessary to come up with 'Something' that you're willing to allow to remove the undesirable qualities. The Tao is perfect, as far as I'm concerned. We all understand that there is some sort of intelligence underlying everything, and it's this intelligence that you're surrendering to. It's merely an admission at a terribly deep level that you're a little f**ked up in some ways (aren't we all?) and that you are willing to have your obstacles removed. What that precipitates is usually a bunch of occurrences where your particular foible is thrust to the forefront repeatedly, until you finally get to see it, love it, tame it...so it doesn't get into your path in the future. When I first went to AA in 1980, the smoke was so thick you could hardly breathe. Most meetings now, to my knowledge, are non-smoking - unless maybe you're in a state where they still allow smoking inside? Yes, the coffee thing is constant too. Yes, they do trade addictions, particularly at the beginning. My experience is that most recoverers usually do quit smoking, but it's not as urgent at the beginning that they focus on this. I don't think anybody ever got arrested for smoking while driving, which is what throws the urgency on to the alcohol or drugs. We come in to those meeting pretty beaten up, initially. Usually what turns people off initially when they first start reading the Big Book is the hokiness, the 1935-ness, of the words. It is important to update these concepts in your own mind to suit your own understanding, for the steps to work. AA will never work by osmosis. The steps must be worked, they are the program. Personally, my arrogance was so extreme that I never worked with a sponsor - not in 30 years have I had a sponsor. I did use a lady to give a 5th step to, but that was it. Even when I was a bloated, red-faced alcoholic, I just knew that nobody new more about anything than I did. I suspect that I would have gotten through my thick exterior a lot sooner if I'd been willing to accept a little input from someone else. But that was my path, apparently. Actually, at some point in time I sort of stopped going to the AA meetings and really enjoyed going to Alanon. They too work the 12 steps but for a different reason. Alanon is for people who are living with alkies or druggies out of choice (for whatever reason), and so the 12 steps are a remedy for them to walk in their own lane, to not focus on the alcoholic, to learn that they are singularly responsible for their own happiness and their own wellbeing. Loving the alcoholic is fine, just don't depend too much on him. But what Alanon ends up doing is focusing on Relationships and applying the 12th step work to that concept. It results in a totally different type of inner growth, I've found. Both AA and Alanon changed my life considerably, and I've certainly seen it do the same for others. I couldn't say enough for the two programs; but there are admittedly some things that have to be tolerated within the rooms. The bible thumping sends me up a wall when they start that, but usually the next person who shares will end up dumping on the bible thumper anyway, so sometimes it's just good hearty fun. Those meetings are a blast all the way around.

This chapter is so very straightforward it's hard to find anything to chew on. The mention of bringing war material with you from home, but forage on the enemy - this sounds to me a lot like in the TTC where the Sage does not travel far from his provision cart. To have an open mind about foraging on the enemy, and actively looking for the opportunity to do so, would make use of the synchronicity of the moment in finding food and other provisions, thereby eliminating the need for more than two loadings of the supply wagons (as it says). It also serves the purpose of not costing the people at home as much money, avoiding impoverishment. They seem very concerned about this in this passage. In essence, they would be "drawing sustenance from the Mother", as it says in the TTC. It's interesting to see also that down toward the bottom, where it says 'Now in order to kill the enemy, our men must be roused to anger; that there may be advantage from defeating the enemy, they must have their rewards.' It almost sounds as though the generals were training dogs for a dog fight. I am so happy to see that the captured soldiers were to be treated kindly. Down at the bottom, when they talk about using the conquered foe to augment one's own strength, this sounds to me like the TTC concept of bending or capturing the light. To stand back and see what direction or dynamic the opposing side is using, then use that force to one's own effect. It doesn't get much better than that...

Taomeow, that was incredible. Sounds like a simplified way to see it would be the acorn = taiji the oak within the acorn = wuji Is this close?

I love William Blake's quote! In one fell swoop you have totally vindicated my entire existence!

Jetsun, was it you that described that poised, graceful, thoughtful man in one of your posts a few weeks back? If it was you, I'd love to hear more about him.

I see what you and Otis are saying here. What I'm referring to is what produces Knowing. I'm referring to something that isn't so much a brain function, but rather an elimination of all other possibilities through experience - not through reading or attaining, but through becoming. It's not a decision one way or the other, and it's impossible to describe what I'm trying to say, so I think I'll quit. I'm sure we're all on the very same page, just different vocabulary.

The Tao and the steps are seamless, I agree. Congratulations on your 2 years! It's amazing how easy the whole thing is (and how easy it is to stay away from your addiction) once the remedy has been embraced. Yes, I too was two people when I drank. I never knew if Mae West or Mohammed Ali would show up. Either way, it always usually shook the hell out of the bar I was drinking in. I find it kind of wonderful that Bill W. remained a seeker until the end; more so than just his ego about his sobriety. He actually had the cajones to drop some acid after he had maybe 23 years sober, in his continual quest for enlightenment. I'm quite sure the old bird found it. What an incredible program that is. Many in AA would argue with me on this one; I do use cannabis as both a relaxant (I am diagnosed w/PTSD; my nerves are shot and I do require a calmative from time to time) and as an adjunct to ceremony for shamanic purposes. But I do know that alcohol is my drug of choice and my addiction, so I don't worry too much about what the others in AA think. I don't take cakes any more because of this. My 30th will be coming up this December, actually. We are fortunate, Windblown, to have done inner work. At least a recovery mode launches us into the introspection process which continues throughout our lives. It would be wonderful if you'd participate in the Tao Te Ching study, up in the pinned topics; we're trying to get more involvement. The discussions about the Sage are wonderful. Your voice is much needed, you communicate so well. And thanks for your kind words.

I really don't think you're a hooligan in Kansas City at all. What you've described do seem to be the attributes of the sage. The problem becomes, how to get from here to there. In order for one to be a sage, I guess one must practice being a sage. But there's so much more involved! I don't think the sage got to be the way he is by happenstance. I think there was a lot of intentional self-reflection, a self-realization that had to occur before he got to that point. It's one thing to think the Tao Te Ching is a cool document; it's another to take it to heart and change oneself from the inside out. Seems like all of our life experiences combine to make us what we are today. I feel fortunate to have taken a horribly twisted path, although it didn't seem like a good thing at the time. But the remedies for that twisted path are what brought me to the space I inhabit today, which is one heck of a lot more comfortable and enjoyable than all those years I was out there trying to make everything happen. I think there's a left brain understanding of all of this, and there is a right brain understanding. Hopefully we get to the point where they both merge seamlessly. The left brain understanding is that logical part of ourselves that thinks systematically. Sometimes it seems like the right brain has no rhyme or reason at all, but this is the home of developed instinct, art, the hocus-pocus stuff in life. the fun stuff. But it's this very right brain that is capable of making the (literally) quantum jumps to understanding a concept even if it doesn't lay out in an organized fashion as it would in the left brain. The concept of wu-wei within the Tao is the achievement of the sage after the work is done. The balance required for this can't quite be covered under "is this about it?", lol. It requires having the discipline to wait until things come to you; it involves making sure each action is the most 'loving' in the context in which it's presented. Sometimes Love requires that you tell someone the truth, and you know it will hurt them. But the sage knows when and how to do this, and he does it with the most kindness that he's capable of delivering. All actions when in the state of wu-wei must be done from an unattached perspective, no preconception about a result. In order to get to the place where one can actually do this well, I am thinking it takes many years of practice. In your case, KC, you've got a really good head start, and it wouldn't take that long. You seem absolutely sincere about wanting to learn this; you seem willing to look at yourself; you seem like one who is teachable and whose thoughts aren't stuck in cement. It's a little like trying to use our knowledge for healing of ourselves or others; the more we practice it, the more the gifts seem to be given to us. When I started dabbling in shamanic ceremonies, I would follow the advice of others as to what to do in the ceremony. (When I say ceremony, I'm not talking about a big deal with a bunch of Indians dancing around a fire; I'm talking about something simple like tracing out a circle on the grass (or carpet), having the person stand in there; purifying the person, myself, and the surroundings with sage or sweetgrass, maybe having a little Native American music playing. I would scour books looking for the right combination of words to say, of ways to hold my staff, of things to do for a correct ceremony. I'm not sure now that it makes any difference at all. I use my own words and my own intuition now, even if it's wrong. Because I've done a lot of internal housecleaning work, I can get down there pretty far to sense the energetic behavioral blockage that's impeding another's progress. This seems to be the vision I have been given throughout all this, and I use it alot. the same with the Tao. If it is read and studied, at some point it does become internalized. That's the beauty of the Tao te Ching - it's relatively short, and each and every time you read it, it will show you something different. Because you're a different person each and every time you read it. I'm glad you're here, KC.

Everyday...New. The ten thousand things arise Only to return.

Sometimes it seems like it's the skin of an onion, to truly relax. I used to start at the feet then go up, but now I start on the outside of the body as a whole, relax the whole outer layer. Then the layer under it. and under that. And all the way down to the solar plexus, brain stem, the I Am. The release of muscular tension magically promotes nondiscriminatory thinking, if you have developed this mindset. We've returned to a place of non-judgment, lack of anxiety, lack of anger, of a type of agape love. After a whole lot of meditative years, the breath becomes circular and it's almost difficult to tell an inhale from an exhale. I agree that this can be done anyplace, anytime, in any circumstance. My mantra to myself, when I find myself getting anxious (I have an ongoing PTSD situation that's rolled downhill over the years) is to Do Nothing. Those words alone, after a lot of time, will reset my body, physically, mentally, spiritually. Or the words Be Here Now will do the same. This is all so very subtle and it's almost like we're tossing a bubble back and forth. But we must find a way to do this to get into alignment with the Tao.

I like to consider this question in the sense that it's our responsibility to do the inner work. If we do so, we ultimately get down to the creator and become One with it. Thanks for posting that article - it was wonderful.

That's good to know. But it does seem to be a point of confusion on these threads from time to time. I checked out the link - that book looks incredible. I would order it but my stack of unread books is already too high....

Cat, I think the 12 steps go right along with the Tao mindset. I came out of that gene pool as well. 1. Admitted we were powerless over (alcohol, drugs, food, whatever) and that our life was unmanageable. As to step one, try and really talk to yourself (writing is the very best way) about how your particular addiction is getting in the way of your life. In what ways is your life unmanageable? Write it down, so you can really see it. Don't shortchange yourself on this step; it will remain in the back of your mind forever if you do it right. Look at how ridiculous it is for you to miss things, be down on yourself for overeating (or whatever the addiction is); usually the addiction is creating a level of 'comfort' within you that you may have experienced as a child, and it's not a good one. We need to change your comfort level; my comfort level, I discovered, was one where I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I would create situations in my life that enabled me to feel that constantly, usually involving the men I was involved with. Like I was just waiting for a beating. 2. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. No need to spend a lot of time on this step for you - but do try and figure out by what device you will be served. The 'sanity-restoring' process doesn't happen overnight by some force reaching in to our throats and removing an unwanted tendency. Sometimes the force brings the situation to us over and over again until we actually see how insane it is. (The definition of insanity, for these purposes, being 'doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results'. Try to define what you mean when you say higher power. 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him. Understand that these steps were written back in 1935 (or close) and the language can get a bit hokey. These steps do conjure up the old traditional God thinking that we learned in church a long time ago. If you are passionate about such things as the TTC or any other tradition, this should suffice. It's all the same thing - just find an angle that works for you. 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. Some folks here are really put off by the word 'moral' - and I agree. It's not a good or bad thing; it's eliminating undesirable personality habits that are getting in the way of your further evolution. There are a million ways that people suggest for how to do a personal character inventory. Some folks like to do a double inventory, where they not only find out their undesirable qualities, but also their good ones. This may be a good idea if you want to take the time. But it's the undesirable ones that get in the way, not the desirable ones; so when I did mine, I just focused on the undesirable ones. The way I did it was to think up every personality defect I could come up with, and then assume I had it to some degree. I wrote about each one and how much sway they held in my life. Maybe small, maybe big. To look inside ourselves like this is to develop what some call 'the Christ consciousness', where we can look at ourselves without fear. Some personality defects: selfishness, arrogance, pushiness, know-it-all-ness, fear, judgment, laziness - the list could go on and on. I would REALLY recommend writing your inventory down, because that way our clever brains can't fool us, which they really like to do, especially if we're looking for aberrations within ourself. If you've committed a thought to writing, your clever brain can't change it around to say something less hurtful because you've already got it out there. Really don't shortchange yourself on this one. I worked on this one for the better part of a day and a half. It was worth it. 5. Admitted to God, ourselves, and another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. This step hurts. Admitting it to ourselves or to 'God' is no big deal. Admitting it to another human being? Woof. If you don't have anybody that you feel comfortable doing this with, I'd be happy to assist with this, I've sponsored many over a 30 year period. This step will help to break down any arrogance you may have been carrying around. It is an onset of humility at a deeper level. This step is nasty, but none of them can be skipped if you want it to work. 6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. If you are prone to prayer, often this is what's done. If you are evolved into more of a Taoist mindset, maybe talk to the Void. Just do something to sort of ceremonialize this step; to distinguish one moment where you 'turn yourself over' to the life force. This shouldn't be hard for you - it's what we talk about all the time in here anyway. 7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings. This is part and parcel with the step above. 8. Made a list of all persons we have harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. This step and the next one are the ones that nobody ever gets to. For obvious reasons. It's humiliating. This is like ripping off a big bandage, this one really hurts. the biggest amends are the ones that will do you the most good. The ones to the people closest to us - our parents, our siblings, our close friends. People we've blown off. In each and every instance, even though we may see it otherwise, we have played some part in the event. We are never totally in the clear. These two steps separate the men from the boys when it comes to 12 step recovery. The funny thing is that when you see the Charlie Sheen and Lindsay Lohan folks going in for rehab, the last thing they tell them when they walk out the door is to keep going to meetings. They could've saved about $25,000 if they'd only walked in to a meeting to begin with. But I guess folks like this don't have the time to really work on themselves, although there are plenty of Hollywood people who do go to the meetings and work the steps and sponsor people to help them get over their humps too. 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. Sometimes people will try and cop out with this step, insisting that they themselves are one of the 'others' who will be hurt, and they'll justify not making an amend for this reason. What they mean by this, is that sometimes it's not appropriate to make an amend. When I was younger I had a penchant for sleeping around with other women's husbands. This was a long time ago. Ideally, I should have run around to each of those women and said I was sorry for sleeping with their husbands. Obviously, this wouldn't have worked out well, especially since they weren't aware of the indiscretion. But my form of amend was to determine to Never Be Involved With Someone Else's Husband Again. That did work suitably for me in this particular case. But this was the only one I 'copped out' on. The hardest amend to make was to my father, who treatly me really badly as a young girl. He brought me up the same way he was brought up, with a leather belt. As a consequence, our relationship was horrible the whole time I lived at home; even though he 'started it' by being so heavyhanded when I was small, I did plenty in the ensuing years to get back at him. It was knowing that he 'started it', and yet I had to make amends to him, really stuck in my craw. I tried to remember all the times I said horrible things to him, the times I ran away, the times I'd come home drunk or drugged up. I worked up the courage to say 'I'm sorry, dad' for all those times. I didn't expect anything at all from him in the way of response. The amends step can't be done with any expectation. Sometimes you'll make an amend and people won't appreciate it at all. That's okay. It's not for them, it's for you. Just do it anyway. In my case with Dad, when I made the amend I was astounded. He recapitulated, much to my amazement. He cried, said he knew he'd done so many wrong things in raising me. It was the opening that we needed to have a short and sweet relationship before he died. But often it doesn't turn out that way. 10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. This is a breeze once the initial inventory and amends are done. It's continued for a lifetime. Often at night I'll look back over the day and see where I was wrong in doing or saying something; sometimes it requires correction or a few words. 11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. Again, substitute any concept of God that you may have and use it daily. 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to (alcoholics), and to practice these principles in our affairs. This is just where we freely give away what we have obtained. You will be a different person after having done this work, and you will be even more qualified than you already are to see what others need.

Immortal, there is so much information there that it's hard to find a thread to comment on. I'm not sure what you're getting at... I too am mindful of the fact that Jesus was brought up in the Essene tradition, which to me translates as more of a shamanic tradition; great respect for nature, seeing themselves as one with nature. If indeed Jesus was able to perform physical movements of energy at the level he is accredited, these would be shamanic feats. Really good ones. And if there were something like a water-walking incident or a levitation up into the sky, why not? Hasn't levitation been done by many others? I've railed on about this before, but it's all too tempting to do it again. Living in the Bible belt as I do, I'm surrounded by unloving and uncaring people who go to church on Sunday and celebrate Jesus' birthday in December. The rest of the year they're going on about their business, grabbing more and more for themselves and their children, fighting against health care for poor babies, and yet fighting to the death to make sure those poor babies are born into squalor. This mindset, to me, is repugnant and ugly Americanism at its worst. We have worshiped the profit motive for way too long; the Christians 'worship' their Jesus, just knowing that if they only put a few bucks in the plate on Sundays their membership in the Jesus club is intact and they will go to heaven. You see bumper stickers back here about how this car will be driverless after the rapture. The idea of 'worshipping' a man is ridiculous. If these folks could be a little more concerned about living Jesus' ideas rather than celebrating his birthday, this whole place would be better off.