manitou

I think that the initial manifestation was both male and female, is that called andromorphous?. We have devolved into separation. Our real nature is the One, prior to the divisions of the sexes; prior to the yin and yang of male and female. This is the mindset we can return to if we exert the effort to do this. Every single day, every single moment, is an opportunity to strive for the awareness of the Oneness of everything. In order to do this, it's best to look at the idea 'behind' or underlying everything, what it represents. Money, for example. What does that represent? It represents stuck energy, that's all. What do we represent? An entity capable of feeling the surrounding area. What's the idea behind this? the Tao coming into its own? Fulfilling its own idea? We seem to be the machine through which it experiences.

Isn't this the most wondrous lesson to learn in life? To do by Not Doing? This mindset removes all anxiety from anything, as far as I can see. Making one's self available in basic conscious awareness. What you describe as the Great Mystery could also be called Latency. I always go back to the Oak being in the Acorn. The blueprint is there always. The manifestation takes its time. Your observations about the relativity of our senses in comparison to external objects is wonderful. A rock is hard because our skin is soft - so nicely and simply said. Looking at page 33, there is a paragraph: "This space, since it cannot be injured, is invulnerable. Since space cannot be conqured or destroyed, it isi ndestructible. Since space abides as the basis for the unfolding of the world of appearances and possibilities, it is authentic. Since space cannot be altered by flaws or positive qualities, it is incorruptible. Sicne space is free of transition or change, it is stable. Since space completely permeates even the tiniest sub-atomic particle, it is in all ways unobstructed. and since nothing whatsoever can damage it, space is in all ways invincible." As I was reading this, it reminded me of a balloon (or, if you prefer, a bellows, as it would say in the TTC) The balloon is there whether or not there is air in it. It is by breath inflating the balloon that manifestations take their rise. I sometimes think of the universe (as produced by the big bang) as being the other side of a white dwarf. Maybe the universe just breathes its manifestations in and out. This is an interesting paragraph (page 47). "You may think that the relative validity of dream images is not equal to that of waking appearances. But think of all the dream experiences and waking experiences from your birth until the present - the activities and occupations, the effort and striving, the saving and planning. Consider whether these are equal. If you examine them closely, without considerering the short term versus the long term or more versus fewer occurrences of such experiences, you will arrive at the decision that they are equal." This seems to be saying that our dreams and our physical life are one and the same. I guess they would be - it's all thought ! All we have to do to understand this is to remove the concept of time and the concept of quantity (more vs. fewer) to see that this is the case. We spend 'more' of our 'time' in the waking hours. We sit at the intersection of Time and Space to experience manifestation. Note: Actually, I'm finding that trying to follow the outline is a little cumbersome. I've taken to just picking out interesting paragraphs in the book

As soon as I read this, it came to mind that this seems to be what the U.S. is struggling with now.....repubs vs. dems, or at least the very hidden and underlying thought: Do we take care of persons we feel are not "deserving"? There is a strong and deep mindset that says what's mine is mine, I earned it, I don't want to give any of it away, and screw all those who can't cut the mustard. Are we our brother's keeper? Can the two ever reconcile?

Talking about PART TWO; Revealing the Meaning of the Main Text as the Purpose of the Undertaking. The first major section, Reaching a decision through view, has four subsections. Mentioning the first one: A. Reaching the definitive conclusion that all phenomena are inexpressible emptiness. (pg. 189) 'Personal identity' is merely an impression; underlying the personal identity impression is the awareness of an underlying consciousness, the concept of "I". the "I" dwells nowhere in the body - that must be transcended. (I think again of your idea of the space between the thoughts). the other side of this is to reach a conclusion regarding the nonexistence of the identity of phenomena. To try and place labels on things; one can see the physical manifestation of a thing's properties, but it seems that the totality of any object is more of a 'verb' that is descriptive of function rather than anything that actually exists in perpetuity. To me, this goes hand in hand with the concept of there not really being any 'time' either. Because our brains are laid out to see in a linear fashion, we are actually looking at phenomena which is timeless - there is no before, during or after. It's all happening now, only we're watching a 3-d movie without 3-d glasses. In order to understand the nature of a phenomena, one must include the Idea for the phenomena, but without the time-interference; rather, as a totality of yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Somehow this Dream is laid out that we are placed at the intersection of the illusion of Time and Space Row row row your boat Gently down the stream, Merrily merrily merrily merrily Life is but a Dream (Steve - I'm going to Calif. for a week to move my mom into the dementia ward at her assisted living place. I probably won't be online for a while - talk to you when I get back).

It's like it says somewhere in the TTC - the good man becomes the teacher for the bad(?); the bad man becomes the teacher for the good. Or words to that effect. I think Life is the Master itself. Each and every day, every situation. Are we acting or reacting? Could it be said more kindly? Are we refraining from judgment, knowing that each and every person we meet is the other half of us? Are we taking things personally, or dwelling in self pity or victimization? Are we harboring hatred or resentment? Are we keeping score on anyone or in a relationship? There's a million ways we can sabotage all the good training and reading. It's by tracking our own selves that we gain the 3 dimensionality that we're seeking. We tap into a type of cosmic alignment and it promotes our cosmic vision.

I don't think it matters that much, actually. If the words of anyone are the true Tao, they will resonate.

Sometimes I think the word we're looking for to see what existed prior to the One is....latency. The Oak is in the Acorn.

Google results: This is given from the POV of the Aro lineage within Tibetan Buddhism. It is from the point of view of Dzogchen, characterized by uncommon simplicty. It taes as a basis our own intrinsic enlightened nature as the basis of practice, i.e. all beings are always already enlightened. It merely boils down to either dualistic or non-dual as a way of perceiving everything. Sem de refers to the preparation of the mind done by meditation, resulting in non-duality. Long de (the Series of space) - concerned primarily with the experience of the energetic body - promotes physical exercises to experience unusual phenomena. Men-ngag-de is the secret oral tradition handed down; this is the approach we're dealing with here.

Paraphrasing page 3, prior to the beginning of the outline: I like the way he consistently refers to the Timeless Principle; it's easy to forget that the Tao crosses the limits of time, and by referring to it as the timeless principle, it's a constant reminder. He refers to the 5 kinds of degeneration that modern day man is subject to, thereby making it so that those seeking omniscience are 'numerous as daytime stars'. Funny, it never occurred to me to phrase it in that term: that I am seeking omniscience. I guess I am. I don't know how he categorizes the 5 kinds of degeneration, maybe you do? (I glanced through the intro again to see if they're listed there but didn't see it) In his view (pg 3) when someone comes to the conclusion that their own minds are empty (passive consciousness), this is nothing more than a state of conceptualization. they remain in this state 'with nothing whatsoever to do and so are propelled toward rebirth among the gods of the desire and form realms, but this does not bring them even a hair's breadth closer to the path of omniscience'. I'm not sure what a state of conceptualization is, and how it differs from real thinking, or having one's own 'original' thoughts (although none actually are!) I think maybe he's just referring to the ability to actually 'think' and not to 'parrot'? what thinkest thou? At the end of pg 5, he mentions 3 categories found in the approach of natural Great Perfection (or as Jesus would have said, 'Be Ye Therefore Perfect'): The Category of Mind, the Category of Expanse, and the Category of Direct Tranmission. This text is termed the secret Category of Direct Transmission. I assume he's referring to the fact that he interacted with these immortals through his own contact, his own dreams or visions, and he essentially got this information from the horse's mouth. I think I'll do a quick google on the Category of Mind (sem-dhe) and the Category of Expanse (long-dhe) to put them in a little better context to see how this triangulates with the Category of Direct Transmission (man-ngag-dhe). I'm not seeing the triangle yet.

I guess you can see it wherever you want to see it...

Just using the concept of the Integral Way is very telling in itself. This would be another description of The Middle Way, the golden mean - finding balance in all things seen and unseen. One dynamic of The Way in and of itself is not complete - it must be aligned with acceptance of All That Is, combined with the understanding that we, too, are That. As The Way has no rules per se, it would be akin to hearding cats to try and compress it into a specific religion. Specific 'religious' practices may aid one to the experiences required for understanding, but religion in and of itself is not the end result. the end result is to master this thing we call Life - to find the most pragmatic way of merging physical phenomena with the dynamics of the rules of spirit, those dynamics we know are there. What a simple and wonderful concept: to take joy in doing the work and service that comes to us. this thought alone should take much anxiety out of our lives. It is saying, that in essence, there is nothing for us to "do".....we need be concerned only for that which is coming down the pike. the years of fine-tuning that we do within our own characters is one of the integral components that makes this all work - if we are not being led by ego (if we've done our homework and tamed it so that we can see clearly), our lives and our attitudes become aligned with what's going on around us; because at some point, we realize that we are the Tao. As above, so below. This is why the Tao (and the fruits of our previous self-purging actions) manifests even within the minutae of our daily lives - like the concept of micro / macro, our bodies being the physical manifestation, on a micro level, of that great macro entity of the universe and the totality of the Tao. At some point, if we are impeccable with our thoughts and actions, Life becomes the Master. Every single person is our teacher, as they are a reflection of ourselves. We get to the point where we are no longer at the mercy of our monkey-minds; we become the master of what we wish our attitudes to be because we've tamed our thinking mechanism. It's for this reason that 'this simple path leads to peace, virtue, and abundance.' Although the concept of 'abundance' means something different to me now than it did some years back.

I'd add too that the closest aspect to 'god' in the TTC is more the acknowledgment of The Void - not to be seen as a creature outside of ourselves that's calling the shots, as you have in many religions. It approaches more the 'nature of matter' reality that the Buddhists would be concerned with - trying to align ourselves with the underlying dynamics of this great colloid that we are a part of. One of our TaoBums members likes to say it's the space between the thoughts, this mixture of inner and outer dynamics which are, in the end, all connected.

The funny thing about moments of lucidity like that are that the impressions stay with you, the details do not - or at least that's been my experience. I was driving through the desert one day and instantaneously I saw all things connected with lines. The clouds were attached to the trees with lines, the trees with the houses, the houses with the animals - everything was connected. I'll never forget that, and for an instant I got to 'see' how everything fit together, exactly. Then, once the moment had passed, the impression remained but I couldn't remember how it all fit together - the nuts and bolts had gone. I was doing a reread of the Nag Hammadi gospels last night - they're so very much more interesting than the watered-down stuff that was allowed into the New Testament. Jesus kept telling his apostles to "Wake up!" but only one or two actually got the awareness of the connection, the Oneness, their actual spiritual divinity. I always like it when you mention the space between thoughts. That's a great metaphor - it can be seen as a great colloid in which is contained all else; the background for the illusions and dreams. Like a grand hologram that appears, disappears, appears.....the space between thoughts is the screen for the movie. I just got a mental picture. Imagine yourself suspended above the ocean, looking down at it. It's nighttime. Imagine that you can see all the beautiful stars and planets reflected all around you on the surface of the ocean. You want to get closer, it's so magnificent. You only see the stars, you don't know it's only a reflection. You ask to be lowered, closer, closer - to get closer to the beautiful array of stars. Suddenly, oh so rudely, your nose pokes into the cold wet ocean. Damn! It's only water! I'll go on to Part Two: Revealing the Meaning of the Main Text as the purpose of the Understanding later in the afternoon, or maybe tomorrow. Unless you can get to it first? (Reaching a decision through view...)

Oh yes - the mystic wings are a different story altogether! Writings reflecting the shamanic view of the Essenes, for example - and I'm currently doing a re-read of the Nag Hammadi Gospels and the mysticism in there is wonderful. Plus the emphasis on knowing yourself as god, per se.

There is no god because god is all there is.

Perhaps you're right about all this. I don't understand your language because I haven't read your book, that is true. And I probably am delusional and remain in continual delusion because I am a long pather. It's entirely possible. Just seems like yours is not a joyous proposition. And way too many words....as us old alkies say as we sit around those dusty rooms balancing a cup of coffee on our knees: "You just don't have what I want." See you elsewhere, Manitou

I guess I missed that part, about this thread being a list of works. Sorry, lol.... Hey, HE, you'll be old and confused yourself one day.

Hi lerner - I just noticed your signature, where you're 'getting closer to fine without going too crazy' - how succinctly put! If you remember, don Juan used to say that a shaman walks a very narrow line between sanity and insanity. Boy, do I ever relate to that. How many of us here can say the same? We pick ourselves clean with the inner work, at the same time we're extending our left brain out with Learning from others. What a tightrope to walk! How often I feel on the very edge of sanity - but for some reason, this seems to be my comfort zone these days. Of course, the only thing that makes me say that is my apparent comparison to others that I assume are 'normal', whatever that means. I remain incredulous that the Christian faith, which is a remnant within me, has no real vehicle for getting to 'Know Thyself', as Jesus is reputed to have said. Without Knowing thyself, all of this stuff is just left brained puff; it's getting the outer knowledge without actually putting the garment on. It's by being impeccable with ourself and getting to Know Ourself that our outer garment can be shed and the real garment put on. I understand that Catholicism has the 'confession' aspect to it, but does it ever go any further than just the confession? Is there a method for further delving into self so that this loop of error can be eliminated? If there is, I haven't heard of it. The inner work seem to be the thing that promotes 'realization'. Realization seems to be something that is an internal dynamic, not gained from the outside, but from the inner wisdom. When our inner experiences align with a pure truth, this realization process can be felt as an Aha! So that's what that means! It's an inner 'proof' to ourselves that confirms perhaps something we've read or studied. It's a physical connection to the truth that can be sensed, and it's often accompanied by a small laugh because it's so obvious after it's been realized, you can't believe you didn't see it before. Like...duh.

[2:14] The Master said: “The noble man is all-embracing and not partial. The inferior man is partial and not all-embracing.” This seems to go directly to judgment. The inferior man judges what he considers to be good or bad and only embraces that which he considers to be good. But he is cutting off part of himself. By failing to embrace other people and ideas, he is self-limiting. Maybe the word 'love' can be substituted for embracing. The noble man (or sage) would see something of value in every human being and knows how to utilize these tendencies in wu-wei. there is nothing wasted. He is capable of this because he has tamed his ego; his ego no longer rides on a particular point of view being 'right'.

What a beautiful song and a beautiful soul, 3bob...

Not following you here. Years of attentive and intentive observation is the Short Path? The 12 steps took about 2 weeks, and then you continue working one of the steps ad infinitum. I'm not sure your path is shorter......it is certainly headier.

Damn. I like the way you think. the action comes to us. The decisions come to us. The decision is always the highest road. Otherwise, just watch it unfold.

The trapping that VMarco's post refers to sounds like it's identical to don Juan's 'tracking'. It seems to be a phenomena of the moment; as though this is the attitude we should adapt at this moment and carry it forward from this point on. But by going through the motions of looking to our past behavior is a real shortcut. Please recall that in the Castaneda books, don Juan had Carlos do a 'recapitulation of his life'. I never understood why Castaneda didn't go more into detail on this point in his books; but if you look carefully you can see it mentioned several times over a several-book period of time. It took Carlos years to recapitulate his life, according to him. Don Juan had him do essentially the same thing that the 12 steps of recovery do - look for your past screw-ups, make the apologies necessary, try to clean up your life so that the inner dynamics are no longer contorted by hate, resentment, selfishness. To answer a previous question on this thread, this process can be done voluntarily or involuntarily. It doesn't have to be a big metaphysical head trip. An easy way is to list all the character defects you can think of, and then assume that you have all of them. Then it's just a question of discovering to what degree they are there. Or....google a copy of the 12 steps to recovery, modify mention of the word 'God' to whatever makes you comfortable, and substitute the word 'life' for 'alcohol'. In other words, "I'm powerless over life, and my life is unmanageable" (this wouldn't be true to the same degree as one just coming off an alcohol or drug addiction, but you get the idea). After that first step, the other 11 complete the process. That particular process is tried and true and has worked for countless people to change their lives completely. It certainly did mine. But there's lots of ways to start the digging. It's just that that one is already set up.

Where's the fun in that? The wu-wei is the pony at the bottom.

This is the essence of a truly recovering person.