manitou

It really makes me crazy when my pinky accidentally hits a wrong key, it makes a little ping, and everything I've just typed goes up in smoke. Does anyone know what *&!!*k@# key that is?? My mind goes metaphysical to the max, so when I talk about buttons I'm also keeping in mind that I am the creator of my own life, at the very basic level. Maybe throw the bardos in, and my last bardo knew perfectly well what exact life I would create for myself in this lifetime; I believe at the time I make decision that it is me who is making the decision. I've come to believe that it really isn't. It's It, whatever you want to call it, the creative life-force, that makes the decision. So my repeated responses to certain stimulae that repeatedly happen over the years (because my life, after all, is exactly how it's supposed to be for my particular spirit to learn what it needs to know in this bardo and continue up the spiral) are what I call buttons. A person whose life depends on doing their best to remove these fixed responses to certain stimulae (buttons) has to dig down and see the source of them before they can even start to turn around. Usually 'acting to the opposite' for a while and/or making an amend or two, if owed, will start the process. People whose lives depend on this are alcoholics and addicts and other -icts of any stripe, I imagine. This is a deep and tough process. K - what is stealing potential in the sense this thread is talking about? Really nice thread!

I think there's a differnce between acceptance and Acceptance. No, I wouldn't accept somebody bullying me or saying unkind things - but there is a graceful way out of that that doesn't have to upset our emotional well-being. Just be kind and walk away, understanding that there's no other way for that fellow to act. The man's in a hell of his own making. But the Acceptance part is realizing 'that's the way that person is', and not expecting anything else from him. Part of maturing is taking people for what they are, bullies or not, and realizing that that's how they are. If he is in your presence, expect him to try to bully you. It's his nature. But how you are capable of responding, how much work you've done, is the thing that will dictate whether this will drive you crazy or something gentler, like looking at it with a degree of humor because you knew it was going to happen anyway. Blow it off. What I've actually found, over all the physical moves I've made in my life, is that I'm always still there when I get to my destination. If I have buttons that are still predominant sticking out of my chest that people can push at any moment, this is going to happen whether I'm living in the middle of New York City or a small village in the Himalayas. The ultimate answer lies within us, and repeatedly moving from one locale to another to escape folks which are unpleasant to us only extends the lesson, as I see it. Until we do the inner work and file down the buttons, it will happen everywhere unless you can find an uninhabited island somewhere.

The thing I like most is that it seems to be the room where all paths meet. Because it ends in the One, it's my personal opinion that all viable religions end in the One - even Christianity, if you read the Nag Hammadi Gospels and the words of Jesus that were hidden away from Constantine and the powers that be at the time. It just feels like the hub of a wheel where spiritual thought meets - the Oneness of all of Life. I merely happened upon the Tao te Ching at a yard sale about 20 years ago and have fallen in love with it - over and over, depending on whose translation I was reading. My personal experience has been that any wisdom I have gained from the TTC has been because of triangulation of maybe 10 different translations. But that seems to be what we have here - a triangulation of different paths in a locale where the structure is perhaps the simplest of any line of thought at all - no structure at all. No dogma. Just seekers. At least in the more philosophical discussions - and what's also awesome is that there are so many side roads to investigate here as well.

and isn't that just the coolest thing??

Because Te (virtue) is our original nature, undefiled by 'every departure from the Dao which contaminates one's spirit'.(as it says in the above passage) This is saying that the way to remove the contamination, over the cycle of lifetimes, is to practice virtue in the sense of wanting nothing for self and all for others. I imagine that would be a pretty good way to decontaminate the spirit, consistent with the dynamic of elimination of the dross of our nature in order to find the essential.

Takaaki - your view of the essence of the Tao is lacking a little love. The man made of uncarved wood is one that has had his rough edges removed, no longer contends, finds compassion for and in all things. He knows that the man who speaks doesn't know, and the man who knows doesn't speak. You, like many of us, may have remnants of our old Type A-ness, that thing that served us so well when it was our time in life to heap up things in life; and we, the lucky ones, at some point get to find out that the heap of stuff didn't have one iota of bearing on our happiness. We needed to maintain a mental rigidness to obtain what we needed to win. Your reliance on self-reliance fails to realize the wu-wei that does exist when we get our inner selves out of the way. It is a current we tap into, a wave we ride. To insist on self-reliance denies the serendipity required to find the current. Your reliance on abundance is understandable, but fear also lies at the bottom of that pile as well. the trick is to feel no fear when there is no abundance; perhaps its only at this time that the undercurrent of the Tao is found. By actual experience. To deny that your desire for abundance is not based on fear doesn't have a clear ring. Your desire to push ahead and not be a shirker is one that we have all had to get under; those who understand the concept of wu-wei. Wu wei is not to "make things happen", rather, it is to "let things happen". There is a huge difference in the inner human dynamic between the two; can you feel it? To make things happen is to gear up, to be tense, to focus our mind in a limited way on our particular desired result. Can we truly say that we know the very wisest given result? We think we know, but we do not. But, contrarily, to "let things happen" is to acknowledge that our thinking is limited and to tap into the Tao. We instantly relax every muscle we're capable of relaxing at that moment, we empty our minds, if we are touching another human being we realize the state where there is no separation between the touch of their hand and yours. It is in this sense that a cosmic alignment of sorts, a oneness of purpose, takes place. Please consider finding your source of anger, Takaaki - as knowledgeable as all of your posts are, there is an undercurrent of challenge and anger that will aways impede your vision until you can understand it and adjust the lens slightly.

and does it mean what I think it means?

Lin Yutang wrote The Importance of Living - he spends much time glorifying the scamp; goes so far as to say that the scamp is the hope for mankind; the one who does not fit into the mold, follow the rules, disregards convention. This truly was my thought of the village idiot - really sorry if I offended anyone's sensibilities.

Jeez. No chance of the village idiot comment being passed off as a bit of humor? And please forgive my mispelling of machinations. This thread is tending toward anality. Probably no such word, and if there is, I probabaly misspelled it.

I thought it might be interesting to compare the various translations of the three treasures of the Sage, contained in the TTC, chapter 67. It seems to me that a triangulation of several translations might well get to the Essence, more than any one translation; rather like a study of comparative religions ultimately leads to the Oneness of all as a common overlay. I would like to comment on Lin Yutang's translation, along wih the translation of Stephen Mitchell. It's my opinion that the 3 treasures are attributes which the sage develops within himself; I don't think he's magically born with them. My view is that it takes desire, it takes work, it takes impeccability, it takes uncovering one's true self to get to the point of possession of the 3 treasures. It is here for any of us, if the desire is sufficient. In Lin Yutang's version, a section of chapter 67 reads: I have Three Treasures; Guard them and keep them safe: The first is Love (Yutang footnote - tender love, associated with the mother) The second is, Never too much. (footnote: "frugality", "be sparing") The third is, Never be the first in the world. Through Love, one has no fear; Through not doing too much, one has amplitude (of reserve power); Through not presuming to be the first in the world, One can develop one's talent and let it mature. ...........For love is victorious in attack, and invulnerable in defense. Heaven arms with love those it would not see destroyed. Discussing these 3 treasures, Love is possible once one sees all life as One. There is no separation between selves; to look into the eyes of another, be it human, animal, or insect, is to look at the black void in the center of their eyes. It is all the same void. We are all the same entity; to smile at another is to smile at one's self. To hate another is to hate one's self. When one remains in the awareness of Love and Oneness, this seems to ensure that things flow as they are intended to flow. a weapon, yes. The second of Yutang's treasures, 'Never too much' involves not only frugality, but frugality as an end result of one's own character efforts. This involves the ability to put one's self second; to let the other be first, take the largest share. It involves losing the competitive nature. How did the sage gain this attribute? Not by following the selfish instincts most of us learn in our young life. It takes subjugating the ego so that we are not prisoners to our own well-being first and foremost. The same is true of the third treasure, Never be the first in the world. I, for one, was brought up to be the first in the class; to win any race I was entered in. To seek promotion above all, within my career. the ironic thing is that if we are impeccable in our thoughts and actions, the elevation will come to us naturally, in its own time. There is no need to grapple and step on others. This again involves the subjugation of ego, an examination of our own character, an examination of our own motives always. Turning to the translation of Stephen Mitchell, he writes: I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures. Simple in actions and in thoughts, you return to the source of being. Patient with both friends and enemies, you accord with the way things are. Compassionate toward yourself, you reconcile all beings in the world. In Stephen Mitchell's excellent chapter notes at the back of the book, he notes the following regarding the treasures: I have three treasure which I preserve and treasure. the first is compassion, the second is frugality, the third is daring not to be the first in the world. Whoever has compassion can be brave. Whoever has frugality can be generous. Whoever dares not to be the first in the world can become the leader of the world. But to be brave without compassion, generous wihout frugality, prominent without humility: this is fatal. Whoever shows compassion in battle will conquer. Whoever shows compassion in defense will stand firm. Heaven helps and protects those with compassion. For those who take seriously the TTC and wish to live their lives according to the dynamics contained therein, the Three Treasures seems to me to be the most succinct directions on how to become a Sage, should one be interested. The 3 treasures seem to describe an intensely personal journey into one's own ego, one's own motives, one's own desire for personal stature. I don't see this as something that comes 'naturally', but there may be many here who differ with that opinion. I think it takes serious work. I look forward to other translations of the 3 Treasures for discussion?

I read once in an occult Yogi book the expression 'the oak is in the acorn'. For some reason this hit me deeply. It's like the potential, the hidden blueprint, is contained within. It all seems to boil down to 'the idea behind the phenomena'. that's also the concept of the Native American 'manitou' - the spirit that underlies everything. It is also an acknowledgment that time is an illusion, in a way. the past, the present, the future are all contained within that one acorn. (P.s. Marbles - please know that my 'Duh' was a very loving 'Duh'. Perhaps even a teasing 'Duh'.

What a strange discussion this will turn out to be. Are you serious in your questions? the village idiot as used in the context of this thread is probably used for only one purpose; one considered the village idiot will not be manipulative, will not be arrogant in his belief that he has the answers, will not be Machiavellian. He is close to the newborn child, in this sense, because his motives remain clear and he has been undefiled by the mechanations of life. Obviously this won't work for a village idiot that also has a passive-aggressive side, or a sociopathic side. I think it's the innocence that is the thing here. Hopefully Professor Bokenkamp shares the non-judgment and innocence of a young child and *some* village idiots.

Duh, lol Maybe singularity can be seen as Latency, Potential.

You know, maybe I'm wrong here, but I just never felt that Confucius went deep enough. That's why I will allude to Tao even though I know we're doing Confucius - but in order to triangulate Confucius I always use the Tao as my cornerstone. May be way too simplistic though. Good expansion, by the way t

Well, first I had to look up 'blandishments'. somehow in all my 66 years of existence this word had never come to my notice. This stands to reason. If someone is enticing or attempting to convince someone of something (and puposefully doing so with a gratifying face) this is a salesman. The person who knows doesn't speak. the person who speaks doesn't know. If someone is trying to entice someone into something, this is against the Tao. How does kindness fit into this? I'm not sure, ChiDragon - maybe you can figure it out? Because kindness is opposed to convincing in some way? Because the man of knowledge would kindly look upon the other man's position and realize that that's where he is at this place in time? Maybe you can expand on this?

TWENTY SIX That mysterious vital energy within the mind: One moment it arrives, the next it departs. So fine, there is nothing within it; So vast, there is nothing outside it. We lose it Because of the harm caused by mental agitation. When the mind can hold on to tranquility, The Way will become naturally established. For people who have attained the Way]It permeates their pores and saturates their hair. Within their chest, they remain unvanquished. (Follow) this Way of restricting sense-desires And the myriad things will not cause you harm.

This dovetails with something we were talking about in a book study down in The Pit. I analogized this potentiality as the moment of pregnant silence when a conductor raises his baton in a symphony - you can hear a pin drop, there is 360 degrees of potentiality for what comes next. If a violinist then plays one single strain of a note, this brings the potentiality down to 359 degrees. the entire opus is a diminishing of potentiality, one note at a time. and morphs into structure. Yes, I do believe that the great colloid in which all is suspended is Thought. So glad you're here, by the way! Your cultivated brain is a wonderful addition to our community.

The village idiot doesn't have as much to undo as the rest of us. I came to the conclusion years back that the best way to uncover the secrets of the TTC was by triangulating the translations of many translators. Because the tome is so ambiguous due to the various translations, the commonality of essence is only found by triangulation, IMO. And then, the translation by any particular person is completely contingent on the spiritual adeptness and capacity for abstractness of the individual translator. It's nearly impossible - and yet we spend much time and energy dancing around the void that can't be expressed. But we are getting closer all the time.

Funny how people with dementia live so well in the moment, lol. If we put down all these damn books and just wait for dementia to set in, we'll be there with no effort at all. I expect my full awakening to happen within the next 5 years or so. then you will have to address me as Rinpoche or Master or something. I was looking further down in the book - page 25 - and there is a paragraph that jumps out at me. "On another occasion, when I encountered Orgyan Tsokyey Dorje - the enbodiment of the magical illusion of timeless awareness - he bestowed advice for refining my perception of things so that I could see that they are illusory. He said, "For me to untroduce you directly to the interdependence of causes and conditions coming together, consider this: The cause is the ground of being as basic space, which is pristinely lucid and endowed with the capacity for anything whatsoever to arise. the condition is a consciousness that conceives of an 'I.' From the coming together of theswe two, all sensory appearances manifest like illusions." It occured to me once when I was attending a symphony that the moment when the conductor raises his baton, that moment of pregnant silence when everyone is waiting, is exactly what is described above: a moment pristinely lucid and endowed with the capacity for anything whatsoever to arise....I realized, when the music started, that the music was an elimination of possibility. The raised baton contained 360 degrees of expressive potential. By limiting the sound to a single note or notes is to eliminate 359 degrees of possibility and settle on the one degree that is expressed; the commitment has been made. The limitation has begun.

The Art of War is quite a phenomenon to me. How it manages to encapsulate the broad and abstract concepts contained within the TTC as a manual for warfare is incredible. But it mirrors the TTC - letting life come to us, letting the war come to us. Nipping things in the bud before they get big. Never leading with ego. Being the reluctant general and seeing the sadness in the victory. Doing by not doing, by utilizing the natural way. By understanding your own nature so you can understand the nature of the opposing general. It's all there. It seems to be the manual for the implementation of the Tao when we are unfortunate enough to have a war lying at our feet. RE; James Legge - Marbles - The word that is interesting to me is Economy. I've seen this usage in M. Blavatsky books. Economy in her sense seems to be 'the way things work', as opposed to thinking in a monetary sense. There is an old community not far from me in Pennsylvania called Old Economy; so named because it wanted to tap into 'God's economy' - the ways of the universe, the ways of the seasons, of nature. Living close to and off the land. But in this Taoistic sense it could also be the Economy as alluded to in the translators that opted for 'Never Too Much', as Yutang did. To be satisfied with just what we need, undiluted by greed.

These two stanzas can go directly to ego too, as I see it. the more frugal we become (and I interpret that as requiring fewer and fewer things as we gain in wisdom and realize that external things don't do much to fulfill us) the less we need to go out and grab for ourselves. The humbler life becomes, we become. Our world is Here Now, not Out There Somewhere Else. But how this goes against our grain, to not be the first; or at least, many of us. Those of us in the Western world have been given the message to Eat or be Eaten for many years; in many cases it takes a 180 degree turn within ourselves to develop the willingness to let others be first, get the recognition, or get a larger share. It goes against our self-preservation gene to some extent until it is taught that that which is gained is of more value than that which is lost.

I like the second part of the quote ; It naturally comes about, not by effort but by letting go. A Buddhist would say letting go of attachments, which would necessitate examining one's own reason for the attachment and acting thereupon to remove the attachment. A self-realization path would accomplish the same, but by examining one's own defects within character which impede clarity. A shamanic path would involve a recapitulation that both involved removing that which impairs the vision, and seeking those pivotal moments of time within one's own life which directed the inner direction. A Taoist would develop the attributes of the Sage by self-development which would result in possession of the three treasures, certainly a journey through ego. A Yogi would understand the nature of the animal natures within us; to seek them out, to separate ourselves from the particular trait in question, to achieve clarity. The mystic mysteries as understood by the Essenes would have the seeker Know Thyself; a proposition that would utilize any or all of the above. At any rate, it does appear that Virtue is developed by the dissolving. Dissolving of all the extraneous character traits and tendencies within us which impede our communication with the Tao/Essence/God/Great Spirit/Brahma/Buddha/Savior which resides at the very base of our personality. The pony under the pile. It is found by dissolving the dross.

Was I judgmental today? Was I arrogant? Was I appreciative of nature and spirit manifesting around me? Did I return unkindness with kindness? Did I do everything with the most loving heart I could? Did I keep my word, even in the smallest details? Did I try to be impeccable in my thoughts, words, and actions? Did I see all people as One and not place one over the other in my estimation? Was I demonstrative of the Three Treasures possessed by the Sage? Never be the first....never too much....Love (Yutang translation) Did I "let it be" when it was called for? Was my ego tame today? Was I tolerant of right wingers, lol?

I think for anyone who is serious about the path of spirit, it is important to internalize the TTC and to use the mindset of the Sage in our everyday life. How close can we come to having the mindset of the Sage? How close can we be to possessiing the 3 Treasures of the Sage? I see the TTC as more of an owner's manual for the human spirit. This same owners' manual can be found at the far reaches of any tradition - in my study of various philosophies, which has been pretty extensive over the years, they all seem to come down to Know Thyself - which to my way of thinking is what is necessary to develop the treasures. But the TTC is so very valuable because it seems to be the condensed essence of all paths boiled down, boiled down to the One, where they all lead in their terminal endings. It is short. It is easily internalized, and when triangulated with various translations, I don't think there's much human wisdom that isn't found in there.