manitou

Please understand that a 12 stepper, having peeled his onion for 31 years, has evolved into an awareness that has nothing to do with what his concept that he adopted at the beginning of his journey. My concept of the underlying intelligence has evolved over the 31 years, as yours has no doubt done as well. Your mention of 'consolation is not the right thing' only tells me you've never been to a recovery meeting.

You've mentioned this before, about the negativitism of the 12 steps. All I know is I would be dead were it not for them. Marco, I'm not sure you fully understand them. They start the peeling onion process, that's all. If one is persistent and sticks with it for years, ultimately you find the pony under the manure pile. And there would be what was hidden from me that I was always looking for. The steps are the reason I am here with you.

Manifestation is an inside job.

This rings home with me. When I first got sober 31 years ago, I had to come up with a 'god of my own understanding'. I certainly didn't have one, I had long since discarded Christianity. So the 'power greater than myself' that I could believe in was Gravity. That's what I used. Actually, my concept is not too awfully different 31 years later.

Marco, do you see no value in understanding Self?

I think, wait for it, they are.

I think wisdom is developed when we peel our own onion and find out the essence of Self. I think my Higher Self is exactly the same as Your Higher Self; we share It. It is our lower selves that appear different. When we've looked totally into ourselves, we are able to understand the insides of other things. This is self realization. One who has not done this will not understand it. They will be stuck in measurement.

my guess is that it's not that someone has put in all those hours trying to become a shapeshifter, should a shapeshifter really exist. I'd bet instead that those skills were acquired along the path; to try and become a shapeshifter, or develop other spooky skills, would be based on ego. a true master or nagual wouldn't resort to this motivation. I'm betting that a nagual who was capable of shapeshifting must be careful not to use the talent indiscriminately, or the ego would get out of whack. The nagual would be concerned with the totality of his being, not just one particuar talent. You mentioned tantric. Have you ever had a tantric sexual experience? One where it seems that both bodies become glowing white skeletons; there is no sensation other than bliss times 100? There is no feeling other than bliss anywhere in your body, no elevation of sensation of one body part from another? If this could be harnassed, this tantric sex sensation of floating bliss might indeed be sufficient to change shape if one so desired. If it could be harnassed or reproduced in some other way. Child's play. It is child's play. Haven't you read masters of many traditions who stress the un-learning that the mind must go through to become One with the Essence?. We can't get there through cogitation and figuring. Our minds must devolve in some very real sense - to become a child's mind. A mind who can accept things when they don't make sense; when all rationale has flown out the window. To have these experiences, I submit that we must give up our 'learning' and rely more on our child's mind; the one that is still capable of wonderment and awe. The ability to pretend, that's all. Again, I submit that All is Mind, and that all paths lead to the same place. In fact, I can see it in a very real sense, but because I can't prove it with numbers or measurements, one would have to take my word for it on that particular statement. Which I wouldn't expect anyone to do. As I wouldn't have done before I developed my own ability to see or 'triangulate', as I call it. It's like the Sage in the TTC. He will tell you that is mind is blank and nebulous; that others around him appear luminous, bright, and knowing. He has devolved into a child's mind (which is not to say he doesn't get to keep all his other learning too). But the sense of wonderment remains, the ego is sidestepped. The child's mind is developed by developing, or returning to, innocence. Here it goes back to judgment. To be like a child before he is taught how to judge 'good from evil, right from wrong'. We must get underneath our own judgments and error-thinking to develop the innocent mind. It is with innocent eyes that these things are seen. If one sets himself up to be the constant critic as many do, then there's no chance in the world that their minds will return to the innocence to be able to See these things. As a retired cop, I was a Constant Critic. After my breakdown through alcoholism, I became teachable, my ego had been shattered. The only road to recovery was in peeling my own onion; from the outside to the inside. Why do we do the things we do? What are our real motivations? When we're doing an act of kindness or charity, is it truly from the heart or are we cutting an edge for ourselves somehow? Are we clinging to old resentments? Are we hating someone? Do we hate ourselves? These are all issues that must be addressed before the eyes of a child can be returned to. It's an inside job.

I think I'll join your ranks.

Sloppy, you're a darned prosecutor, aren't you? I'd know one anywhere.... The open field was across the highway from the corral. I had to chase him. He was running about 35 mph, I was flying at about 3 mph. I ran up to a slightly raised knoll so I could see him. He was nowhere in sight. I could hear his hoofbeats getting closer. He circled the knoll and took off again, back in the acreage beyond my vision. I thought he was truly gone. I heard his hoofbeats return. That's when it occurred to me to tap into his memory of being roped, if I could. I threw the rope. The horse skidded to a stop in the open field. After walking up the rope to him, I led him with the rope back to the highway, waved my arms to stop traffic, only about 3 cars. But on a curve so I'd rather have stopped cars rather than blind vision on the curve. No eye contact with the drivers. Clop clop clop across the highway. Continued with the invisible rope around the corral to the door in back. Swung it open and the little stallion went in. You're right, Sloppy. It probably was a coincidence, all of it. But damn good alignment, if you ask me.

lol. maybe I should. If only I could fly there tonight in my dreams and actually see it. Back to the drawing boards.

Are you looking for discrepancy, Sloppy? There is none. The open field was across the highway, the Old Ferguson Farm, 200 acres of beautifully tillable soil. That's where he was roped. He was led by the rope across the highway and back to the door of his corral. I had to flag down cars to stop, as I wasn't sure how long the 'rope' would hold. I made no eye contact with anyone in the cars, I intuited that it would break the moment. Sorry if my words were confusing.

Open field, Sloppy

Sloppy - my head is spinning from your questions, but they are good ones. You had to be there. He skidded. I omitted that I led him back across the highway, stopped traffic as well, with the invisible rope, and put him back into his corral. This is just me. It's all Mind. One Mind. Once we figure out how to truly use it, we are capable of anything. And WE are the thinker.

Nice, Aaron. Yes, there's the rub. Walking the talk. It makes me smile when folks on this forum talk the talk but are consistently getting into mean-spirited back and forths here. Best to walk the talk even when we're typing.

I've noticed something about these strange phenomena - it's all about the mental state you're in to experience it. When I roped the stallion (who had just jumped the fence of the corral because i was running with him on the other side of the fence, he got real excited), I was in a total state of panic because I felt that I was responsible for him escaping. He wasn't my horse, he belonged to a friend of mine. My mindset couldn't have been more earnest. That's when the only thing I could think to do was to 'tap into a memory of him being roped' (hopefully he had one) and that was my intent. I hurled the invisible thing at him and he skidded to a stop and let me walk up the 'rope' to him. Another time, my husband Joe was knocking on someone's door, standing on her porch and waiting for her to come out. When she did, her normally brown eyes were a real foggy blue, like a blind woman. Again, his mental state was completely open, just waiting for her to open the door. Some months later, I was knocking on the door of a friend of ours, an elderly lady. Nothing on my mind, just expecting her to come to the door. When she opened the door, there was blood welling up within her eyes, and some drops of blood had splashed down onto her cheeks. I was shocked and turned away quickly, and said "Nancy! What's wrong with your eyes?", but then when I looked back up at her there was no blood. It was gone, poof. Several days later she died of a stroke. They were all illusions, but not really. It really is a parallel universe of sorts we can tap into, but the mindset apparently must be just so. As I think of the two occurrences where we knocked at the door, both Joe and I were in a state of no-thinking expectation (for someone to come to the door). As to the stallion, maybe my intent was incredibly strong because I felt it was my responsibility that he got loose. I couldn't possibly have had more desire.

Sounds impossible, doesn't it? All I know is once I roped a horse with an invisible rope. I don't expect anybody to believe me, but it happened. I think I'll leave my mind open.

It must be incredible to see something like that. Makes me realize what a piker I am. Mastery of the elements. Now there's a thought.

I don't know, I'm just putting my head into their heads. There they are, it's probably dark, they've probably just eaten some peyote or smoked some weed; there's a fire casting weird shadows on the event. There's drumming which is enough of a transport just in itself, and there are others circling the fire making odd animal sounds, dancing to the beat and dressed in whirling fringe, beads, and fur. I'm guessing they get about as close to transforming their spirits, or merging them with the animal as which he is imitating. As they dance, a bear doesn't dance like a crow, a crow doesn't dance like a bear. The individuals imitate that which they wear. As All is One anyway, the higher in capability the dancer would be to 'get himself out of the way' and 'become' the bear (with its capabilities and strengths), the more his spirit would merge with his spirit animal. The ancients knew, they intuited, the Oneness of man and nature. Just as the Sage does, the shaman draws his sustenance from the Mother.

I just did a quick Wikipedia look at religion in N. Korea, and the article I found indicated the following numbers: Buddhism - over 1,000,000 Confucianism Korean shamanism - almost 4 million (16% of population!) Christianity - 1/2 million Catholics - 4,000 Juche (cult of personality, combined with self-reliance as a nation) - approx. 50% I know next to nothing about North Korea, but I find myself thinking about the people often. Here in the West, every time they show one of their propaganda film footages from N.Korea, it's always soldiers, men and women, goose-stepping in their military lines. I'm afraid that what this has done has caused many to believe that folks around N. Korea go around goose-stepping all the time and are totally aligned behind the leader, Kim Jung Un. I'm guessing that nothing could be further from the truth. I am hoping that because N. Korea has been such an isolated society (one could almost use the word 'pure' in a strange sense here) that there is an enlightened segment of the population that operate under the radar. Korean shamanism at 16%? Does anyone know anything about Korean Shamanism that would make it different in any way from the shamanism that many of us have taken to our hearts within this forum? That there are those there too who understand wu-wei and are just waiting for the right alignment of factors before their ultimate freedom, which will have to come at some point in time? Or has the fact that the N. Koreans have been so isolated and dependent upon their government to tell them what to think, that they've forgotten how? Personally, I'm hoping that when that country does finally crack open, that we will be pleasantly surprised with an entire underbelly of beautiful enlightenment. Any chance?

That makes sense in an odd shamanic sort of way. The more I practice flying as a crow, the more I can actually see. But it seems as if what I see is from my memory, only capable of doing it in a place I've been before. Sometimes I fly across country, usually following old route 66 (as a crow who can go hundreds of miles at a wing flap, much like the li bird!) My husband and I have been across Interstate 40 / old Route 66 a handful of times in a motorhome, so there are some scenes I recall. What I'm finding is that the more I do it, the more places I 'recall', and once I recall them in my memory, I can sort of choose how high to fly above, or whether to swoop down into, say, the Grand Canyon. But again, only the parts of the Grand Canyon that I have personally been to. So what you say, Jetsun, has some real personal appeal to me. The ability to 'see' the lines in their totality would certainly be indicative of one who has made the transition to one 'who can only see where he's been before' and 'one who can also see where he hasn't been before. A fully developed shaman, in this regard, would be able to elevate his eyes (probably by using a crow, hawk, or eagle as his model for shapeshifting in this particular case) and go out of body within the imagined animal's form to see the totality of the animal form. We have the serpent mounds down here in southern Ohio and I haven't been there to see them yet. If I were able to 'go where I haven't been before' in my crow travels, I wouldn't have to go there physically. But I have not mastered the art of travelling to that degree. Yet.

It is truly a discipline, trying to keep the thoughts high. But the rewards will be when the manifestations start changing.

My guess is this is probably do-able. My guess is also that it takes practice, over and over, to 'prove' to yourself that you are actually capable of doing it. I think that's what a lot of it is; to do things like this, even though it defies logic, until we get to the point where there is 'no doubt within us that this is actually happening'. It defies everything we've been taught to see and believe. I'll bet the fellow who's capable of doing this learned through trial and error, even if he had a nagual or teacher. Some things just involve direct experience and the pursuit of trying to do it, until one day it finally happens if we're earnest and don't give up. I also believe that the Native American dancers, when they don a crow outfit or a lion or a bear, are in a shapeshifted mentality as they imitate the animal.

I use a form of shapeshifting for my attempts at remote healings. I become a crow, usually, to fly there; then sometimes a snake to access inside the body of the person. To move the muscles slightly as you're 'flying' with your eyes closed; just pretending, like you're a kid. Once inside the body I do a scan of a particular organ, eyes still closed, just a mental image of the inside of a stomach or a heart or a bladder (in a recent case) for evidence of cancer. If there is any shadow or darkness sensed in a particular area, I blast it with an imaginary hose through which comes purple glitter. No, I'm not kidding, lol. I do this on people whom I've already performed a ceremony, a touch-up. The last fellow I did this on died of cancer, unfortunately; but he was unwilling to look at inner dynamics that were eating him alive. Mebbe it works, mebbe it doesn't. It just takes the courage to be a bit of a crackpot. Don Juan Mateus (Castaneda's nagual) would tell Carlos to hold his hands like claws by his side and imagine he was a lion when he needed courage. There's something to what you say, Sinasencer

This is wonderful. He has potential because he doesn't care. The concept of 'face', it seems to me, is being constantly concerned about how others are perceiving you. This is to deny that we are all part of the One. To truly be a loving individual and try and live our lives by the Tao, to exist and dwell in love for ourselves and all others is to not care how we are being perceived. This way, we don't stifle our own actions and can live in freedom and harmony, regardless of what we perceive others to be thinking of us. I discovered that there is much truth in 'Judge not lest ye be judged', to quote the Nazarene. There seems to be a direct relation between how often we have judgmental thoughts towards others (friends or strangers) and the fact that we assume they are judging us. We 'feel' judged if we are judgmental. It seems to work like the scales of justice.