1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

is as realistic as hoping that the Pope wears lacey underwear. 

What the.....man you're into some freaky shit😂😂😂

I'm just going by what you've said about yourself and based on your thinking styles I've seen a bit of. People on the Autism scale often are known for having very rigid thought processes.I was just concerned and thought it might be helpful for you to look into. I don't mean to insult, and there's nothing wrong with being autistic. It's not an accusation just a question, and a helpful suggestion. 

 

I don't really like formal discourse either. I much prefer social talk, I enjoy discussions much more from a perspective of sitting around having a few beers than any kind of dry formal discourse 

 

Rails by the way, are you on the autism spectrum by any chance? 

 

I ask this because you mentioned that in your youth you had problems fitting in and having harmonious relationships in your hometown. You don't seem to understand the social skills involved and just brushed them off as all "assholes" as a coping mechanism. But we know when a person says everyone is an asshole , it's the person themselves who is invariably the problem.

 

Combine that with your rigid and strict posting style, inability to have a flowing conversation covering a broader range of perspectives and nuances on subjects, and I think it's very possible your actual problem may be social skills, perhaps mild autism. Perhaps you should look into that?

I didn't miss your point but what I'm telling you is religion is not a major factor when  it comes to interpersonal or dating relationships unless one of the people are religious. Even then religious influence can be overcome by triggering biological instincts. Women who thought they would never do certain things, can be flipped and completely changed if you're willing to put the effort in rather than move on to greener pastures so to speak.

 

There are many reasons society hides how men and women work on a biological level.

 

One reason is it's not in society's interest that every guy be at the top of social dominance heirarchies, which is the primary attraction factor for women, social dominance not physical arrtactiveness. Everyone cant be attractive to women.  Society would fall apart, so lower ranked men have to have the truth concealed from them. They need that carrot and string to have hope to keep going. They need the hope that by following the social script and social conventions they can one day get a date.

 

Another reason is that it's in women's interest that men don't understand their biological mating strategy because they have a dual mating strategy. The good genes vs. Provider strategy. Lover vs. Provider. This is likely why human females developed concealed ovulation. It's literally in human female's genes to conceal their mating strategy. In the ancestral environment a male finding out about their dual strategy could mean her death, banishment from the tribe, or the killing of her baby.

 

In many tribal societies around the globe, men kill children who are not their own. Or refuse to give resources to children not their own. 

 

So you are out of touch, and religion has very little to do with dating strategies in the modern era.

I honestly dont meet many religious people these days.

 

Religion isnt the only reason society tries to hide how attraction works from men. In general women are more clever and intuitive about how men work, than men are about how women work too.

29 minutes ago, bax44 said:

 

Only in 2020 can we turn dating into a business transaction. 

I hate the idea of tranactional relationships. It's what society teaches men, that relationships are some type of reward for good behavior, that you're "entitled" to relationships if you are a good guy. So men feel like they need to "provide" for women or things like that. It's awful.

 

Relationships only come about out of genuine attraction and when both people feel genuine chemistry. That's why its so important to understand attraction cuz you can't transact your way into a relationship. 

 

 

The vast majority of guys are just never gonna be naturals. Unless you were getting laid at like 13  you're not going to be naturally good at dating. If you do get the odd success here and there it will be a fluke, not consistent, few and far between, and not the best person for you. You won't just intuitively grasp it without years of experience. 

 

It's similar to martial arts that way. Every guy thinks he can fight, and every guy thinks he can be a natural at dating. But if  you havent trained and you fight a skilled martial arts fighter, you're finished in seconds. 

 

So that means you have to practice. You need to go on a lot of dates. You have to learn the theory. You have to interact with a lot of women. You have to have mentors. All of it.

None of that is wrong per se, but it's overly general and incomplete advice.

 

How do you apply those concepts? Guys need specific examples, they need actionable advice they can go out and practice, or it's just platitudes.

 

It's not enough just to say have boundaries.  Why are boundaries important? One reason is that contrary to what society tells you, women don't want to be a prize, if they do run, women want to get the prize. So take the attitude that you are the prize. Another reason would be someone without boundaries comes off as desperate. They are desperate.

 

How do you develop communication skills? Many ways. You have to practice. There are many communication methods. There's what you say, but then what's even more important is what you convey. There's facial expression communication, body language communication, vocal tonality, and addition to overt communication there's subtext and sub communication. Women especially are good at subcommunication. They want a guy who "gets it" and doesn't need everything spelled out.

 

So how do you practice it? By learning calibration. By testing it out. Learning where that line is, where you've gone too far, and being able to dial it back and walk it back from there.  With practice you'll learn where the line is, how not to step past it, and learn to adapt to each individual person. 

 

There's  a loooot more to add too. It's good not to make dating too complicated, but on the other hand, it can't be too simple to the point it's not practical.

 

1. Don't be attached to outcome

 

2. Be process oriented

 

3. Be the buyer not the seller 

 

4. Be Self amusing, if you're not having fun you're doing it wrong 

 

5. Analyze your interactions

 

6. Lead the dates forward 

 

7. Have good logistics

 

8. Know where you are in the interaction. Physically, emotionally, and logistically. For example if she wont hold your hand yet, don't go for a kiss.

 

9. Take the pressure off, it's no big deal.

 

10. Dating is a skill, it can be learned

 

This are just few off the top of my head

That's one type of peril of not having online dating. Here's another peril😋

 

We're lucky to have you man

Anyways, if you guys would like share any experiences you've had with online dating I'd actually genuinely be interested 

2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Liiiiiiiaaaaarrrrr.

Is he always like this?Jk I'm just messin with you buddy, I get it though it's your way of showing you care 

26 minutes ago, ralis said:

‘That was an about face. Afraid of being banned?

Oh you're actually being a good friend to ilumairen and I respect that you look out for your friends, it's a good thing to do.

10 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

 

My guess would be another attempt at emotional "flipping" and further manipulation. Then an expose for "the guys reading this" regarding how easy it is to feed female emotions towards manipulative goal. 

 

The issue is, once trust in open communication is betrayed where there is no emotional investment, there is simply no compelling reason to further involve oneself. 

 

If there is any sincerity to it, time will bear it out, although I remain doubtful given the saccharine tone. 

 

Thanks guys. Hope you have a good day. 

I swear I wouldn't do that, when I say something I mean it. You're 100% right it's like we've been saying all along and both understand, actions speak louder than words and healing wounds takes time. You're clearly someone who has a good head on her shoulders, and you dont take any bullshit. Intelligent, passionate, and thoughtful.

 

I also would never mean to emasculate your friends here or any of that insecure bullshit. They're clearly great guys and you obviously are someone who really values friendship and connections. 

Something I can see everyone here is passion about is Inequality. Inequality in all it's forms are so damaging and all good people of the world are fighting against it.

 

One often overlooked form of equality is in the dating market. It's why I'm so passionate about navigating dating dynamics.

 

Someyhing we have seen is the attractiveness, whether it be physical fertility signs which men are highly drawn to(replication signals), or social dominance which women are high drawn to(survival values), it distributed highly unequally in all societies

 

There is a principle called the pareto principle and some people believe it applies to dating and relationships 

 

We can see from data from online dating apps the distribution of sexual relationships is highly unequal. Some people have suggested that 20% of men are having sexual relations with 80% of women. I don't know the exact stats, but this article talks about the Gini coefficient 

https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a

"

The Data

As I stated previously the average female “likes” 12% of men on Tinder. This doesn't mean though that most males will get “liked” back by 12% of all the women they “like” on Tinder. This would only be the case if “likes” were equally distributed. In reality, the bottom 80% of men are fighting over the bottom 22% of women and the top 78% of women are fighting over the top 20% of men. We can see this trend in Figure 1. The area in blue represents the situations where women are more likely to “like” the men. The area in pink represents the situations where men are more likely to “like” women. The curve doesn’t go down linearly, but instead drops quickly after the top 20% of men. Comparing the blue area and the pink area we can see that for a random female/male Tinder interaction the male is likely to “like” the female 6.2 times more often than the female “likes” the male.

 

The Lorenz curve for the Tinder economy is lower than the curve for the US economy. This means that the inequality in Tinder wealth distribution is larger than the inequality of income in the US economy. One way economists quantify this difference is by comparing the Gini coefficient for different economies.

The Gini coefficient (Wikipedia link) is a number between 0 and 1, where 0 corresponds with perfect equality where everyone has the same income (damn commies) and 1 corresponds with perfect inequality where one person has all the income and everyone else has zero income (let them eat cake). The United States currently has one of the higher Gini coefficients (most income inequality) of all of the world’s biggest economies at a value of 0.41. The Tinder Gini coefficient is even higher at 0.58. This may not seem like a big difference but it is actually huge. Figure 3 compares the income Gini coefficient distribution for 162 nations and adds the Tinder economy to the list. The United States Gini coefficient is higher than 62% of the world’s countries. The Tinder economy has a higher Gini coefficient than 95.1% of the countries in the world. The only countries that have a higher Gini coefficient than Tinder are Angola, Haiti, Botswana, Namibia, Comoros, South Africa, Equatorial Guinea, and Seychelles (which I had never heard of before)."

 

 

 

ilumairen I appreciate your sincerity and grace you demonstrate. I feel like I really was acting like a cocky jerk, and really did go overboard. I never intended for this to get so heated, and in the heat of the moment I did let my passion and feelings get the best of me. I see that now and I do sinscerely apologize. You dserve all the best, and have the right to be heard, to speak for yourself, and your feelings are absolutely valid.

 

You're absolutely right, and I'm realizing that I'm not superior to any other human being on this earth. We're all here just trying to understand each other, live harmoniously, and make our way in this life. I appreciate you and your comments are more helpful to me than you know.

This is not a bad attempt at a last wind comeback though, I gotta respect you how hard you fight

3 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

 

 

It needs done, and since it needs done efficiency is in order.

 

 

 

 

This is another great example of how I flipped the frame on her. If you go back you'll see she was demanding me explain my motivations or something about household chores. What I did though is flip it around on her and now she is explaining her reasoning to me.

9 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Oh my stars!

 

So you view this discussion as some sort of battle where you're basically "holding your own"?

Ok so for the guys reading this. I'm gonna kind of break the 3rd wall here. Do you notice how in the beginning she was able to play it pretty cool. She was playing it very indifferent. She was like "you're a bore" etc.

 

This is the turning point in the interaction. 'Oh my stars!" You see I've now turned on her emotions, and the good thing about emotions is they can be flipped around. I got her to emotionally react and you can always work with emotions. Indifference though you cant do much with. So I flipped her into emotionality, which deep down she actually enjoys much more than indifference or bleh.

1 minute ago, ralis said:

 

You are making inferences which is not logical, but proceeds from an incorrect conclusion. I thought men were rational and beyond that?

 

I didn't call you an asshole, but you surmised that I am. I would advise reading my posts more carefully before you leap into faulty summations of my arguments.

Yoi're losing it buddy, totally lost.

 

No one said men were so rational.or beyond anything.

 

And no one thought you called me an asshole. You did however say your town was full of assholes. This says more about you and your own social skills than it does about your hometown. 

 

Seriously though, contemplate and study my conversations and you might just learn to be more socially well adjusted and get along with people better.

Just now, ilumairen said:

 

Oh my stars!

 

So you view this discussion as some sort of battle where you're basically "holding your own"?

At this point more like kicking ass😁

1 minute ago, ralis said:

 

Washington Examiner is a right wing news organization, based on lies, right wing ideology as seen in the above article. It comes off like a religious diatribe against women! Seriously shows where your mindset is toward women.

The best way to learn about someone is by interacting with them yourself and getting to know them.

Just now, ilumairen said:

If you are actually curious, my present emotion is amusement - which I would have assumed would be clear given the amount of laughing emoticons I've used here.

 

You don't have to try so hard. You don't need to post so many emoticons. It's ok. Don't worry you don't have to convince anyone of your emotional state.

6 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Since we're at the daobums, arguably a spiritual forum, I would suggest there are most likely men here whose happiness is also not dependent upon outward curcumstance. Recognition of the inner "source," and it's natural expression is something many aspire to. Perhaps you've simply met more women who are naturally in touch with this than men, and maybe some of the men here could share their own experience to help broaden your horizons. 

Honestly this post pretty much proves my point

7 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

I grew up in a small town in Ohio full of assholes. I completely understand the mentality of patriarchal imperialism and the cause of problems dating back well before the Axial Age.

I'm sorry you were so hurt by your upbringing

 

You may be right. But perhaps you should look inside yourself. Usually when you believe everyone are assholes, usually you're the asshole.

 

Perhaps if you contemplate my posts more you can improve your social skills and get along better and understand others better.