Daeluin

Recently I've been reading Liu I-ming's Awakening to the Tao (tl Cleary). I've seen the Cauldron / Furnace metaphors in other classics, and found this one more accessable. Also it seems pretty on topic, so... (I wonder if it's ok to post book excerpts here?) "Steadying the Furnace and Setting up the Cauldron When alchemists cook medicines, first they must steady the furnace and set up the cauldron. The quality of the cauldron is firmness, whereby the medicine is contained; the quality of the furnace is flexibility, whereby the firing is operated. If the cauldron is not strong, the medicine is easily lost; if the furnace is not steady, the fire flies off at random. What I realize as I observe this is the Tao of refining body and mind. Firmness of determination in cultivating the Tao is the cauldron. Becoming stronger with perseverance, never turning back even though foiled a hundred times, being imperturbable, unwavering -- this is "setting up the cauldron." Alert observation at all times is the furnace. Working gradually, serenely, unpressured -- this is "steadying the furnace." When the cauldron and furnace are stabilized properly, you burn away the acquired habits that have become compulsive over the course of personal history, thus bringing to light the original state of completeness, sloughing off all acquired pollutants. When the slag is gone and the gold is pure, you get rid of the old and take the new. Now you change the furnace and cauldron, and set aside the tongs and bellows, to do advanced work, melting the real gold down into liquid and frost, returning to the state before birth. So it is that the alchemical classics and writings of the adepts consider steadying the furnace and setting up the cauldron the first priority."

We are all born with a unique pattern. Perhaps fulfilling our destiny is related to harmonizing this pattern. So then it may pass freely to what is next, without becoming trapped. Perhaps when we are already trapped, we need a specific set of circumstances to call us back into a new body. Perhaps in conception, the energies created between the two people and the location in the flow of gravities in time are what decides what spirit is called into form. Our solar system forms an interesting container. Within a backdrop of stars, there is quite discernable shifting amidst the balance. Not only does one's birth match the particular balance of the moment, it also matches the very clear mazes of change ahead through time. The same is true of the ebb and flow of the five forces. All patterning systems show the same thing in different ways. The slower changes are subtle, mysterious, and ever churning along. Amidst them all we can make our own choices, towards this polarity or that. As further separation of the five forces occurs in society, more noise is created. Yet even this noise reflects the same patterns held in the planets. And they reflect the same patterns held in the stars. I have much to learn, far to go. And yet I am ageless. Even so, my pattern was born into this life. To unfold amidst this particular pattern of change. My choice is to follow the path of separation and noise. Or listen to and follow what is behind the noise. If I am always opening new doors within every room I enter, How will I see the whole? How will I think life is anything but a maze? As I am able to let go of the path of post-heaven, I begin closing doors and unifying myself. Protuberances wear away and concavities are filled, Stability illuminates and the maze is straightened, The tao shines brightly at the end. Many paths return to the tao. I am led to one that suits my bent. So long as I listen and maintain sincerity, I am led towards greater integration. We all unfold through time uniquely destined for us. Some may find the conditions right to spontaneously manifest higher development. If that is in our flow. Some may find we need to work harder and build things up over time. If that is in our flow. Some may work with intensity, only to abandon intensely! If that is in our flow. All will come to a point of stability in time. If we make the choice towards constant sincerity. When we let go of sincerity, our development culminates and invites conditioning. How quickly will we spend what has built up? The very triggers that cause us to abandon sincerity, Are the challenges built into our path through time. When we pass through them, they forge us stronger. When we scatter before them, we pick ourselves up and start over again. I've learned much from this thread, thank you! I am slow to awaken to my path, and have encountered so many ups and downs. Lately I've been thinking of my lower dan tien as my humility. When I feel like I have energy, I want to use it. When I slow down and still my heart/mind, focusing down to ltd, it is like stabilizing my cauldron and allowing the furnace to work its magic. I have experienced the effects of various deep traumas and bad posture, and whatever technique I apply, maintaining gentle sincerity helps the most.

Water falls to the lowest point. What is brought up can only come down. All cycles repeat following the path of least resistance. Extreme changes in life invite more extreme changes. Extremes in cultivation may give glimpses of what is possible. But then they vanish just like a trip. Gentle stable cycles of change invite more stability. With this one can build a foundation. With this achievments are not only glimpses.

Everything evolves over time. Originally we had unconditioned energy. As we grew we conditioned it. The conditioning created blockages and leaks. Originally our energy was in harmonous balance within. Now our needs become increasingly dependant on what we receive from outside. All this happens over decades. To return to our unblocked, harmoneous, whole state also requires time. How much time depends on what we do. Fighting creates polarity, but we must dissolve polarity. Gentle consistancy in letting thoughts arise and fade takes long. Sincerity paves the way forward. To speed things up, how deeply sincere can one be without using force and creating separation? It may help to give the mind something to focus on. Let the mind rest upon the breath. But the mind-breath connection is deeply affected by the leaks and blockages. The five elements will not easily rest upon eachother. The five elements need to be refined back into harmony. It may help to do physical activity or energy work (qi gong). Strenuous activity is hard on the body but requires mental focus. Energy work may be gentle or hard; All comes from the intent. A form like tai chi may help one reach deep into refining, bringing the energy into balance, clearing the clouds from the mind. Then one comes closer and closer to the unconditioned mind of tao. Then one may sit and watch as the mind attempts to return to it's conditioned state. But now the difference is clearer. One may use yin (conditioning) to work on perserving yang (primordial). All happens in cycles. At midnight yang returns and comes to fullness at noon. At noon yin returns and comes to fullness at midnight. So it is with the waxing and waning moon. So it is with the waxing and waning seasons. So it is with every rise and fall of the breath. So it is with every culmination of fullness or emptiness. Maintaining the mind of tao is simple awareness of the cycles of change. Not that I would know.

Chuang Tsu is full of examples of people's radiance overshadowing apparent and extreme disfigurments. What matters if a foot is missing when one is united with the tao? None of us are born in "perfection"; many of us have slight imbalances in our bodies which affect the way our energy flows. The psychological effects of our past lives and balances of the stars and energies when we were conceived and born are all related, and all contribute to the psychological and physiological "perspective" we must learn to dissolve so we can unite with the tao and discover our true selves. Anything we single out and attach to creates a polarity. Doesn't matter if we're attached to the good or bad side of something, by attaching to it we create both! To oppose something one only maintains it. Best dissolve it or it will always have power over you. A good way to dissolve things is to increase your unwavering sincerity in the direction of your natural virtuous self. Then remain flexible and adaptive to flow harmoneously through all the challenges life brings. Firm on the inside, flexible on the outside, yielding to remain whole; equanimous.

Nothing is impossible. Maybe unlikely, but hey it's a pretty mysterious universe out there. Chuang Tsu says something like, "knowledge is limitless, but life has limits." Is it the most efficient use of our limited time to chase after what is limitless? Perhaps, if that is our destiny. We all have something pretty magical and mysterious to uncover inside of ourselves. In this lies our key to immortality. Most people fall into the pattern of using the energy of our limited life to chase after desires and become lost and separated from what is true. Often people try to return to truth by seeking out what is possible, without realizing the answer lies in allowing possibility to unfold from within. If we return to ourselves and let the waters of our desires become still, the mud will slowly slowly settle and the waters will become clear and our intention sharp an focused. With increasingly unwavering sincerity towards our own wholeness, the pattern of our destiny will become more and more clear both in who we are and in what is present all around us. Chuang Tsu says there is no right or wrong, there is only what is right in front of us. If we truly wish to have deep and powerful impacts on people, Ghandi puts it well - be the change you want to be in the world. One who is fully whole and truly human need not intentionally manipulate the minds of others. Simply radiating wholeness and trust unconditionally in all directions, such a one cannot be harmed, yet everything around them is changed. As to power... it is a double edged sword! Chuang Tsu advises weilding power in a hidden way. Let others think they changed themselves, lest a hoard of people decide you have something they want. Maybe that attention would be nice, until you find your powers suddenly gone and your freedom vanished!

Deja Vu seems like a subtle type of synchronistic aligning. Some alignings are simply amazing - once a teacher asked us to read up on a certain hexagram. Some of us did so after class, and one of them asked me to look up their i-ching astrology calculations (sherrill&wu). So the next day I was sitting in a tea house doing the calculations. It was getting very busy, and the table space was short. A gentleman asked if he could share the table I was sitting at and I happily invited him to do so. As the calculations came to completion, I delighted to find my friend's birth hexagram was 26. The same hexagram we had been reading about the previous day. The gentleman sharing the table with me became interested in what I was working on, and provided his birth date information so I could calculate his hexagram as well. It was the exact same day, month and year as the friend I had just completed the calculations for! Shorty following, the gentleman's friend arrived to meet him, and it turned out this was also a friend of mine. Now Deja Vu.... Sometimes I feel as though I have done something before. Something uncannily close to what is right in front of me. Often it feels as though this is something I've experienced as Deja Vu before! And yet it is often quite subtle and I canot touch upon where this sense originated. Or I may see a person who I am certain I've met before. And often the person agrees, but neither of us are quite sure where we may have crossed paths. What I understand from this is that as our inner virtue or te is able to radiate out without our egos gettng in the way, naturally our virtue begins to harmonize with the tao in everything around us. As we stop controlling the changes in our life and learn to flow with the current of our original nature, we align reach greater and greater alignment with our natural destiny. Synchronistic events will manifest through this alignment, and are simply natural resonances. The celestine prophecy says the people we feel we've seen before may have a lesson for us, or may have something to learn from us. At a more basic level, these two people may have a similar subtle energy pattern, and their very coming together into resonance brings harmony. Perhaps they will learn something from each other on the mental level, perhaps the subtle connection changed more than they thought. Moments we feel we've experienced before may work the same way, and may be subtle resonances that reach deeply within, because whatever is happening is somehow connected to our deeper path. Perhaps we experienced something before which altered us in a subltly profound way, and as we experience a similar pattern we instantly recognize it. Perhaps our mind can't even see the pattern or the significance, but something deeper knows. Oh... the people sitting at the table next to me just said "deja vu, oh wait that really happens", then got up and left. *hits post*

If looking for true solar noon/midnight, if in US and in Daylight Savings time, yes subtract one hour to get clock time. Then one must adjust for the analemma. I like using this site for looking up past dates/locations, but it also gives the exact solar noon for the date/location entered: http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/ The chinese hour of tsu/zi is 11pm-1am, but the yang returns at midnight. I'm still working practice into this, but my mind wants to think of it like this: The first part of the hour is good for really settling into stillness, so one may clearly feel when the maximum of yin is reached and the first sliver of yang appears. Then one can align one's inner clock with the return of yang. And the same for noon to where yang reaches it's maxiumum and yin begins to enter. If we can catch the seed of these changes and adapt when they are small, perhaps it is easier to maintain one's center and avoid being surprised later on. My mind thinks the same of the new/full moon, winter/summer solstices. My mind wants to think these exteremes of change are important for adaptation, but the equinoxes and period of sunrise/sunset are also very important as those energies are naturally more in balance with each other. Lately I quite enjoy doing energy work before sunrise.

"Where sincerity is the way is open." When one is deeply sincere with one's intentions, one will draw and be drawn two what is most appropriate for the path one follows. If one's intention is focused on surface level desires and powers, how will one's intention connect with a teacher who will be able to convey depth? Perhaps the teachings are there, but can one hear them? Say one cultivates sincerity and emptiess, truly focusing not on powers, but on surrendering to one's destiny. And then one opens to receiving a teacher, the right teacher. Perhaps over the next years such a person will be drawn to move, and end up receiving signals towards a teacher one is able to truly recieve from. Perhaps this is like letting the Tao choose one's teacher. When one seeks to judge what one learns, how is this possible? The "real deal" is beyond the bias of knowledge. The "real deal" requires trusting and surrendering attachments to progress - one must get over one's self to find one's true self. The more one surrenders, the more one changes on the inside, and any real accomplishments simply are. If one is walking along a path to get somewhere, then realizes they are getting somewhere and start to look at the how of it, it is as though they are turning their back on the way ahead to look back. What is raised up can only be brought down. Perhaps this can lead to helpful realizations and understandings, but the subtler things become, the more important it is to remain focused in the forward direction, unwavering. In my experience, stepping back to understand has only resulted in letting go of the accomplishment before it is permanent.

I view jealousy as what comes when something we have attachments to or expectations for is threatened. A pattern we've come to rely upon might be removed and we have little say, that's scary to us. Being glad for whatever she may experience sharing her affection with someone else is surely an improvement over the fear you felt. I haven't read every post, but I wonder if her desire to open the relationship came from answering her own need to find balance in her self. She is/was/will be off experiencing that freedom and seeking wholeness as the person she is, rather than seeking balance in her life with you. In your times apart you may feel the urge to be very aware of her - I would advise to simply be happy for her and allow the thought to pass. Now is also time for you to seek your own balance too, and finding a way to replenish whatever it is you may not get while the two of you are together. edit - as an addon to that, picture two trees growing next to each other, so that their branches and roots share some of the same space. if they were to only grow towards each other they would be fighting over the same air and water. but by coexisting both together and alone, they help each other by drawing from outside as well as sharing within. alone there is a whole, combined as two wholes there can be an ecosystem, but two halves trying to make one whole requires damned good balance.

I imagine evolution as a tiny center point shared by every opposite between yin/yang. We live on a giant yin planet in a void of yang (is that correct?), and all life happens in the balance between. To cultivate something outside of this center point "resonates" with the opposite point, yet also creates it's own alive world of balancing yin and yang. Maybe like western cultures and eastern cultures each have their own gravities, not unlike many colliding galaxies, chaotic but simply seeking balance around a common center. Letting go of the extremes and returning to yourself maybe lets you hone in on this center point, this edge between opposites in which all life evolves. One extreme could be strongly needing to feel sensory pleasure, it's opposite rejecting it completely. The balance is in the center of the self, sensing all around equally, perhaps favoring things while mindful to return to the center, yet not rejecting the natural flow within either. But the mind likes to keep the things we experience tucked in it's memory. Continuing the planetary metaphor, couldn't our life itself be its own planet, our experiences like asteroids flying by. Yet maybe one asteroid's orbit gets smaller and smaller each pass by, until it is in close orbit. Isn't this what we do with our minds? I see a door or hear a word or phrase or taste a meal or wish for something often enough that the response it invokes becomes habit, a rut, an expectation, never to go away unless it is singled out and kicked away. We can get so caught up in ourselves and our habits that we can't see past the countless satellites orbiting our planet. Couldn't this explain why the "enlightened" say the rest of us don't really see reality for what it is? Could it be possible tiny things we don't even think about, like colors, the earth, our friends become so tied into our memory that when we re-experience them we are "living" more in that memory than the present moment? Aikido legend O Sensei was once asked how he would respond to an opponent with a gun. O Sensei replied he could see the path the bullet would make so as to have time to easily avoid it. Is it possible that in living and sensing so intensely in the present moment, not using the mind at all to translate (and thus not caught up in attachments, etc), one may experience events in extreme vivid detail as they unfold, even to the point one is able to sense what is to come? p.s. love this thread

Little1, thank you for your insightful thoughts. I suppose then my thoughts on dilution don't really apply as challenge to a practicing taoist who has already attained inner momentum. Rather they apply to the adoption of taoism by beginners in western culture. As you said, things do grow gradually. The system of values taught by our culture has grown gradually both in itself and in each one of its practicing citizens. It happens to teach that we can have what we want now, while hiding the mechanisms that make this possible, the things that took time to build, as well as the imperfections. The taoist system on the other hand is full of opposing values, including many that you mentioned. For one to develop the new foundation does require quite the shift in thinking. I feel this shift is significant enough that it does affect modern western taoists by slowing down our progress. Indeed a good core will get you far if you practice diligently, but at least I have trouble with this because of my prior conditioning. Even when I do get ahead and practice diligently for several months, it is still easy to fall back into the old conditioning, especially because that conditioning is reinforced by daily cultural practices. I agree completely and would extend it to say the root of frustration/western conditioning comes from (economic) values that are spread by marketing. I work for a company that makes websites for the healing arts professions. While many of these teachers are wonderful, I find the successful ones often have a somewhat bogus feel to them. To generalize, they have something to offer their students - a little something, be it technique, charm, marketing - that alludes to greater promise of success. Of course success can only come from within, and a good teacher will prevent a student from trying to draw too much false hope from a teacher. Yet I see this scenario often, and feel it has to do with western conditioning. So along those lines I also feel the dilution of values in our society affects the quality of teachers, and really many aspects of life. Our culture has been built up for a long time after all, so of course it affects our lives profoundly. I feel most of this is in the realm of spiritually inclined people that haven't cultivated enough inner strength to make headway on their own. I don't mean to complain about our cultural conditioning or blame it... rather I try to understand it and how it shapes our lives and communities. Of course it influences us, and I believe the planetary gravities in our solar system also have emotional influences in our lives, but ultimately as you said, nothing beats diligent practice - directly influencing our own life by building inner strength.

So I joined a while back, even posted a few times, but never really introduced myself or stuck around. It'd be nice to change that. I suppose I discovered the tao back in college, and it really opened up my world. Up till that point I had tried to figure things out on my own, mostly by using logic to piece together what made sense while not entirely dismissing things that didn't. I liked believing in the possibility anything could happen, and over time my loose strings would find their places. And as I learned more they did. When I started learning about taoism those strings came together a lot faster. For the first time my foundations of belief had found outside validation, but it went beyond that - instead of doing my own slow weaving of theories, I had an immense wealth of knowledge before me. It still took a long time to gain a solid enough understanding of qi, among other things, even after I was able to feel it. But after reading many different descriptions of it things finally began coming together. At this point I have a basic understanding of vitality, energy and spirit. In the eight or nine years since college I've answered most of my burning questions. Now I know I need to put in time to grow, unless I'm content with philosophies alone. Only I've never been a very strong person, especially when it comes to expressing my own will to act. I'm sensitive and easily get swallowed by patterns - the internet, bad jing retention, a new story. In one sense I'm ok with this, as I'm trying to become more compassionate and accepting of the way things are, rather than dwelling on what could be. So why try to change myself? But I also recognize much of my "self" isn't me at all, but conditioned responses to our culture. I'd very much like to overcome this and see clearly. Practice wise I've dabbled in tai chi and qi gong enough to produce results, but not long after that. For much of my life I've been vegetarian, experimenting with fasting and raw from time to time. I feel the lack of heavy foods might make grounding much more important for me. A typical pattern for me is: practice a very healthy lifestyle and cultivate enough energy that I lead a fairly outgoing and positive life for x amount of time, then crash after it becomes to much and I don't know how to channel the excess properly. Well ultimately I know my problems, and know the solutions - just gotta spend more time with myself. Thanks for having me, Daeluin

I'll do my best! Thanks

Taoist teachings being diluted by Western marketing I feel marketing is one of the largest forces influencing western culture. It is found in nearly every facet of our society, from politics to entertainment to news to what we wear or eat. And largely it exists to promote consumerism. This is a business model, and a successful one. An over-saturated orange or tomato looks tastier than a real one. A catchy slogan will spread, better yet make it one that makes people think something good about x product. A fake announcement of the right type will generate enough positive popularity to outweigh negativity for lying. But what values are we taught through this? We embrace superficiality, we want more and more, from things to entertainment, anything to keep our minds active and happy. Ultimately we're taught that greed and lies are the path to success. With these basic values thriving in western culture, is it no wonder that even practices grounded in some of the ultimate truths are also rife with pretenders? If it can be marketed it will sell. Practicing the truth isn't easy when you're surrounded by lies. Teaching it must be even harder.

I just joined the live chat room, found it empty, and searched for an irc room, and found this thread. I'm a fan of irc, but the setup has a fairly steep learning curve for non-technical people. On the other hand, if you already know it well and have a client customized, you'd rather use that. An alternative suggestion is mibbit - it's an ajax irc client. Very simple for new people to use, just takes a browser, and can also be embedded in a website. This might be a way to go if someone cares to look into it: http://mibbit.com/ And for the future, embedding a "google wave" might replace irc. They claim it will replace email... looks very nice: A preview version is supposed to be out soon... not sure when it could be production ready.

I've dabbled in a few mmo's, starting back with EQ, recently with WoW. At first I couldn't handle the downtime in eq - casters had to stare at the spellbook while meditating to regain mana, it was slooow. There were other annoyances, which all added up and made me quit twice after < month of playing. Then I tried again and just went with it. I let all my dislikes go and found I really enjoyed the game. I played for about three months non-stop, had a stellar time... then couldn't handle what I was doing to my life and quit. For WoW I did a similar thing, for a couple months twice, knowing I would reach a point where I couldn't continue. I suppose it taught me being picky doesn't help to enjoy things. The social aspect of it does bug me. Level striving mixed with grouping leads to playing 5+ hours every day. Usually you level faster in a productive group, and have more fun, but if you don't keep up with everyone else they'll leave you behind. Add that to what Hardyg said about having good items and you end up with a fairly superficial social environment. And one that leaves no time for a real life. That said, I do enjoy it with real friends. There's something very satisfying about playing a game with someone you know well. It no longer matters that you're in a superficial environment, that's the whole point. The genre's evolution is pretty interesting to me.... from EQ to WoW things changed quite a bit, favoring intuitive, immersive play over realism or challenge. And games like Guild Wars that offer the mmo type experience without the time/money requirement. None of it will top the metaverse though, whenever that gets here.

I like understanding this similar to breathing during sleep. When I wake up here in there in the middle of a deep sleep, I find my breathing is much slower than it was when I'd just laid down. My body is also very relaxed, so that the oxygen and qi I breathe in has an easier pathway to reach all my cells. In meditation it is the same. I can't just use concentration to slow my breath - after a few minutes I notice the need to take a couple bigger breaths. But if I concentrate on opening up and relaxing every part of my body except my lungs (and even them), letting my bones hold me up, it is better. In a sense letting go of the hold I have over my body, my control over it, so that I may replenish it. Like how in sleep my focus is in dreams and has let go of my body completely. I think more than I practice, but when I do practice it can sometimes feel as though I understand how one might breathe without using the lungs. Maybe.

alo! just wandered here from the facebook taoism group, and am in awe of all the discussion going on here. i'm just a fool of a college drop-out, frustrated with the why and how of our society, and seeking to discover who i am. almost a year ago i found that taoism is much deeper than appears on the surface. moving within balance is such an elegant idea, yet also so deceptive: as one seeks finer balance and greater openness, one discovers the world unfolding and exposing new depth through which one can seek even greater balance and openness. the pure beauty within this sees me content and at peace, yet my understanding lies only within my mind. i know restlessness and am eager to someday truely awaken within this dance. thank you for having me! dae