Daeluin

Funny thing about "levels" in spiritual advancement. The higher you go, the more you interact with what is beyond life and death. If your teacher went beyond the limits of life and death, there is a pretty good chance they will continue to teach you if you are able to listen, even if their physical body is gone. The teacher-student connection carries with it transmissions that are similar to familial bonds. This is something very sacred. And please note I'm not saying how this principle is related to this topic. Interpretation is up to us. Just no point hiding in a box when the topic is about advancements beyond the box. In the end, what do we really know, and why do we care so much?

I heard John Chang had some sort of dream about his teacher warning him to be more hidden after he shared some demonstrations in front of a news crew. In general it seems smart to listen to your teacher. Even more so if you are being taught things easily misunderstood by modern culture. Pst, hey everyone! There's a chest of gold in bluefire's backyard!!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_literature

My sense is that time is the best method of recovery, along with a balanced regimen of exercise and stillness. Too one should be gentle with one's health, not thinking too much, keeping good posture, good diet, so that one is not burning the jing in other ways while working on strengthening the heart-kidney relationship. There may very well be ways to increase the rate at which jing is replenished within the body, but I believe these likely need to be practiced under direction of a teacher to avoid doing them in a way that would lead to other health issues. Also, it is well to remember that the jing is a xiantian substance, something more celestial and less material. So in the cultivation of it, it may help to do things that nurture respect to what is sacred and mysterious. This can be done by developing a sense of awe and delight in innocence, working more from one's intuition and a sense of heart-confidence than from one's acquired mind. If one is too focused on the form (the known way of things), one will simply drain (or close off their access to) the formless (the celestial). In terms of retaining one's jing.... they say the yuan qi is like jing in the form of qi, is the foundation of one's vitality, and is circulated through the triple burner. If consciousness is like fire and jing is like water, we naturally have the fire rising and water sinking. But we can use the intention to focus the consciousness gently on the lower abdomen with our breathing and cause the water and fire to come back together again. This is much like placing a pot of water over fire - before long steam is created. One must be gentle with the amount of, and intensity of this fire to prevent the water in the from burning up, working with the amount one has. Perhaps this is a way of coaxing the jing into its yuan qi form, like steam, to help nurture the health of the whole body rather than being expressed as sexual pressures in the instinctual need for continuing the species. One may see how this principle is applied in standing meditations, exercise, and stillness in general. Balance is key. As there are subtle differences in the way men and women lose jing, there may be subtle differences in the way men and women can nurture their jing - we've been discussing some of this in the Gender differences in cultivation thread. Regarding nurturing jing in sexual practices, there is a great thread about this here. And here is an article that helps understand the different types of qi including different manifestations of jing.

Mrglrlglr.... I like how Zy has much of all this thinking stuff wrapped into one section, as I feel it is easier to answer the whole, all together. When we study all of these parts separately we gotta remember to put them back together again in to the whole. When do we get to the bits about I can only know me from the inside out and others from the outside in, helping us remember that comparisons of things are flawed to begin with and lead to the path of constriction?

Continuing with Ziporyn's exploration for comparison. Why do we pick and choose? In asking this we are led to the answer of how the constriction of scope occurs. We continue to explore this, and are shown the imbalance this leads to. Even though we know our friends will eventually die, we cling to them after they are dead in our suffering. Why do we attach to such self-made constrictions? Is this not bewildering? When exploring the pipings of heaven, earth, and man, we see the pipes of man shown as pitch-pipes. The key here is that those pitch pipes have been structured just so, each making a chosen pitch rather than a random one. Rather than being formed through having life breathed into them by the natural blowings of the winds of heaven and earth, man has enough control over heaven and earth to precisely shape things. Many animals exhibit the abilities to make choices, but cannot change their ways as well as can man. Many spirits exist flowing and nurturing harmony, without being able to both connect to heavenly flow and influence matter like man can. "Man" has the ability to set things in certain ways, and along with this process continues to obsess over controlling the shapings which the winds blow through.

In the beginning we are shown the big and the small. And then, increasingly, we dwell upon the small, and it all just keeps constricting upon us, forced by a momentum we cannot escape! That is enough! That is enough! Then perhaps is posed a question: Is it from all of this, presented ceaselessly day and night, that we come to exist? And then we begin to explore this question, which I will continue here... ... in order to show the purpose of this constriction. Without there being a constriction upon the big and expansive, there would be no formation of matter to eventually yield a planet whereupon life had come to form amidst the balancing of hot and cold, the formation of atmosphere and ever evolving forms of life. Too is hinted at our awareness of it all yet without truly knowing what makes it so. And then continuing the process of constriction we begin to question the nature of existence.

In chapter 1 we go on an exploration of the scope of individual things. We come to see that there may be great differences in the capacity of various things. We come to see that things may change their capacity, their scope, by following careful steps, and yet that they always need to depend upon something to support their scope. When attaching one's self-being to hats, one may become successful or unsuccessful based on how others value hats. And thus things are exchanged, and our ability to prosper and grow large or weaken and grow small all form a complex dance. Is this not like the piping of man? Too we are asked what if we only depended upon heaven, earth, and the six atmospheric breaths. How would our scope and capacity be limited? And yet would we still be us? Here we have the wind that is issued forth from the Great Clump (big bang-esque?). Is this not related to the six atmospheric breaths of between heaven and earth? On Earth we have forms, in Heaven we have the formless, and in between we have the myriad breezes and gusts, the changes of the 10,000 things according to the times. So then, to depend upon nothing but Heaven and Earth and the six atmospheric breaths mentioned in chapter one, one merely steps out of the way, allowing the breath of heaven to breathe through his earthly hollows. In this way, as we shall see, one is able to adapt to all between in great harmony.

Ziporyn has a detailed exploration of Guo Xiang's commentary of this section in Penumbra Unbound. Can find the excerpt searching "chuangzi yao four masters"

Regarding "awakening" this came up in another thread. I was able to find several different sources to put this into a more classical daoist perspective, which was helpful for me. It seems there are some strong common themes shared between the various expressions. The overall goal seems clearer now, as well as ways to prepare and avoid dangers.

I think he begins with showing us that we are who we are. Then that there are many of us, in all different shapes and sizes and purposes, and that there are natural frictions as we relate to each other and change. And ultimately that we have the ability to merge with totality, where we are all as one. This being in the first chapter sets the stage for an exploration of how we may work to fully embody our individual wholeness in an endeavor to settle into oneness, without falling prey to the myriad energy traps along the way.

Aww, I came here thinking Tolkien...

Yep, happened two days in a row. And now clear sailing for two days. Until recently Sean was the only one with access to resolve these issues. We have notifications to let us know, but aren't always in front of a device. We had hoped that the latest 3.x upgrade would resolve the db error issues, but it seems we are still seeing them. Hence we are working on v4, which is a complete rewrite and has fewer features and would require someone, likely Sean, to completely re-code the theme. It is likely it will break many some of the features we use on the site, so we are exploring this, and may explore other alternatives. In the end, what matters is: we know about the issues, we are working to resolve them in the best ways we are able under the supervision of the owners. As this is a spiritual forum, I would hope that having the site down would be encouragement for our members to flow along with their ways, rather than becoming agitated by their attachments. Nothing is permanent, all is flow, and flow is nicely supported by trust.

Thank you for your gifts.

Pretty much this. The idea I get is that to attain physical immortality rather than simply a long life is that one needs to transcend the polarity of life and death, which is done by merging the two to find their gate then going beyond it, or something like this. If one's primary goal is to live forever, they are likely to be clinging to one side of the polarity of life and death. In order to accomplish that goal they would probably need to surrender it first.

So back in Zhuangzi's time they had the concept of teenagers? Or was it more like maidens? Just curious. Both translations seem to present the context of a naive young lady to deliver a similar point. Not sure why the loss of virginity is mentioned if it isn't explicitly stated, but it does help deliver the point of what is at risk through loss to one's integrity and wholeness by coming to naively yearn for something just because someone else talks it up.

Oh, Jim D.... you need to lighten up! Which is why I encouraged you to be yourself and worry less about things like this. My reaction to your belief in acupuncture is not because I need external validation about my beliefs, but because I doubt there are many acupuncture schools where the theories of qi are not at the core of what their students learn. I have no interest in the proving of anything at all, precisely because I believe what is right is different for each of us, and to pretend otherwise is to value contention over harmony. Peace indeed, friend.

Hard to believe in acupuncture without believing in qi... qi is the entire basis of acupuncture, and shares the same root of understanding with internal cultivation practices. But yes, the essential idea is that the mind merges with the body to create the qi, so the fixations of one's mind directly influence how one's qi is shaped. Regardless of what you believe, I hope you continue to follow your own path, and feel you are able to do so without needing to armor yourself in distrust - one tends to draw what one prepares defenses for. All one needs is to simply know one's self - and then one need not fear others.

I've studied a little Bazi and in the reading from Diaitadoc I received today was quite accurate and thorough while being clear and concise. There are many different styles of Bazi, and I found a great deal of resonance with the structuring and logic behind the interpretations, and Diaitadoc was very responsive and open to feedback. Thank you!

And here we come to the implications of the web of values that are tied between scopes. As people continue nurturing their desire for more than they need, they become more clever, and begin to exploit those who are humble. Things may be utilized in many ways, and great rewards may come to those who are able to reposition resources. Following the nature of these developments, it is reasonable to believe that sticking to ANY way that involves something others value may lead to the eventual exploitation of that value at one's own expense, unless one is ever working to be smarter than everyone else. So in order to avoid this game of exploitation, gain, loss, and the demand that one participate in an unsustainable competition, better for one to cultivate no discernible value to others at all, and then one may be free of this contrived and waring realm of humans governing humans, so that one may be free to continue following one's unconstricted dependence upon nothing but heaven and earth and all between.

More on scope, now continuing the implications of value that is tied between scopes. Here we have one who has changed his scope based on the establishment of the values we spoke of in 1:3, such that he depends on the selling of caps in the hopes of gaining more than he needs. Alas, when he travels to a place that differs in its values, his contrivance of scope fails him and he presumably will gain less than he needs. Conversely, Yao worked hard to bring order to all the people under heaven, such that there was a great peace and harmony. Thus his scope, which depended upon the needs of his kingdom, was dissolved along with the need for a king, who became just another part of the whole, not in ownership of any other. Here we learn about the underlying principles related to the binding forces between entities, and why what one depends upon is important, especially if one is choosing to depend upon something based on desires. We learn how one might tie bonds to one's self and how one might dissolve those bonds by nurturing what is naturally self-so rather than contrived.

Ziporyn's tl: A continuation of our discussion of scope. Here we explore how scopes which are beyond precedent so easily get talked up for others to become spellbound and confused by. Sometimes even kings - those with great scope - forget about their kingdoms, entranced by the lure of those of unheard of greatness. Meanwhile the one who is spoken of has no need to do anything, for his virtuosity is so great that all things are done. He would simply be, and the king would simply be, if not for something that comes to connect them, something that comes to nurture that desire for one thing to be another. Ziporyn says in the notes how the virgin girl is used here as an example of the loss that comes from the exploitation of innocence, as often the virgin girl is unaware of and has no need to lose her virginity, but can be naively talked into it by someone else's desire. So here we enter into the complicated world of how values become attributed to things and how this causes us to yearn to be something other than what we are, laying a contrived and complicated web over the natural flow of things between heaven and earth.

Perhaps this is but a natural continuation of the implications I came to at the end of 1:1: When we accept our role, are we not closer to being merged with all between heaven and earth? Why should we contrive to do this or that based on what we wish was rather than flowing with what already is? Is not much of this realm of humans governing humans created precisely to prevent humans from exploiting other humans based on not knowing when we have enough? Ironic, how our greed is the very thing that comes to limit our scope.

Hi juan, You have a lot of great questions. I'd say you are thinking on the right track, and will find your answers, but: When the whole is divided, parts need names. There is a fine balance to the study of parts. The more we explore the pieces, the more pieces we discover, and the implications of how they each relate to everything else becomes very complex indeed! Perhaps this is why daoist cosmology takes the effort to explore the beginnings, but very quickly speaks of everything else as the 10,000 things. When we look at the parts in terms of how they relate to polarity, as in yin and yang relative to a given perspective and situation, we are simply looking for balance within a situation. Often this comes in the form of stillness paired with what has been moving. Acceptance paired with what has been pushed away. Trust paired with what has been judged. All of these things lead toward emptiness - toward the subtle and mysterious balance of all things. This emptiness can be frustrating. It isn't the definitive answer we so frequently seek. But so often that definitive answer merely propels us to a polarized perspective and we keep running in circles around the circumference rather than coming to rest in the center. It is when we merge both to the middle that we find the center, and often it is necessary to relearn what it is like to gestate within this subtle and mysterious energy. This subtle and mysterious energy is associated with virtue and power, or life force. The more we go to the edges, the more we expend our life-force, and the more coarse our functioning becomes. The more we learn to return to the center, the more harmonious our functioning, and the more whole we become in terms of health. I have not explored much with dual cultivation, so I cannot give you answers. But perhaps some basic guidelines that apply to all things will help. Seek what is balanced and mutual, within each self and with each other. Come to understand how things are always changing over time and learn to adapt to these changes harmoniously. Recognize that moderation is key - extremes are often what set us on rapid courses of rising and falling, and it is difficult to find balance with such momentums. In terms of energy, I think you are on a good track. The directions of qi might be slightly different in the pre-celestial compared with the post-celestial, similar to how the gravity on this planet gives us an up and down, forward and back, left and right, while it still includes the lesser, greater, inside, and outside within, even as our up and down is somewhat like an inside and outside from the planetary perspective. Blessings to your way.

A few months ago Mars went retrograde... this is similar to driving past a car that is going the same direction you are. At first you are both moving forward, but it appears to slow down, then appears to move backwards as you move past it. The effect is one of fluid repositioning. The feel is similar to if you and someone else were in a room with a window - you were both slowly walking, but then you move forward past them so that they are between you and the window. Now if you look at them they are back-lit, which is very different from before when they were front-lit. Moreover there is an unexpected quality to this - often we become accustomed to the feel of a certain motion past a certain backdrop with a given planet, and are a bit unsettled when that motion begins to go backwards. It shakes us up a bit until we realize the motion is taking it back through a familiar backdrop, terrain we have just explored. That's sorta where we are right now. Scorpio is a backdrop, a window that is a little intense. Mars goes full circle every couple years, and goes backwards and forwards a bit, but not very often in the intense backdrop of Scorpio. Overall Mars has an activating type of influence, and is seen in our actions and those of others. So now Mars is done traveling backwards through that familiar territory we've gotten used to and is changing to a forward direction again today. It'll still be traveling through that same window we've been through twice now in the past few months, but the unexpected change in perceived motion can throw us off balance if we aren't ready for it. So that's all this post is about. Hey, momentum is changing, be ready for it! These are subtle forces, so maybe you won't even notice. But if things start feeling unpredictable, that's why. Because this is our third round through, now is our best opportunity to really sort out any lessons we've been facing. We probably know the answers by now, so should be easy to get things right. Good luck!