3bob

and if becoming established in Brahma loka  through evolution only lasts at best for a part of a cosmic cycle  with dissolution still coming resulting in nothing gained and nothing lost per and as a non-evolutionary Brahman... then what purpose in "going far and returning" in a seemingly vicarious way asks the Hamlet minded?  

the starving can not eat abstractions,

going by impartial non-human karmic/cosmic math everything is perfect math wise -- which doesn't do shit for any of those suffering and weeping in pain in some form of the thousands that there are!

also an underlying fear...yet fear has no real or lasting root

1 hour ago, dwai said:

Grace is constantly available. Only seeker needs to prepare himself to receive it. That’s where effort plays a role.

 

Sri Ramakrishna used to say that Grace is like the wind that is constantly blowing on the river, the seeker is like the boat which needs its sails raised to catch the wind.

unconditional grace needs no conditions and is not dependent on or only reactive to merited effort....for it spans and penetrates, without harm,  the entire multi-verse and being-ness in less than an eye blink. (eye of the true Guru)

a key aspect perhaps alluded to by "transmission" is Grace,  all three really have an aspect of Grace manifesting.

2 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Very interesting statement.  Why do you think that? 

 

Also, what do you think of the verses that seem to say something different?

Say John 14:6 for example. "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

 

 

 

I assume you know the answer to your question.

there is a strong tendency to put Jesus on a pedestal...which is not where he is or wants to be held....

On 6/1/2019 at 6:13 PM, Fa Xin said:

 

Cool view. What about the verse you quoted? Can you go into more details, regarding the full wisdom? Also what do they mean by close and open?

i believe there is a guardian aspect to this, namely what a guardian closes stays closed or sealed until they open it...

similar to the saying  about what is opened none can close, and what is closed none can open....

(through and by full wisdom and its related power)

8 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

I don't really see it as separate.   Mystical Christianity will lead to the I Am consciousness, which sits in the middle of the wagon wheel, the spokes being different religions.  The I Am consciousness is the inner gulp of consciousness when you fully realize who you really are.  The Native Americans called us skinwalkers, realizing that our physical self is only a bag of bones.

 

My guess is that the Bible has undergone many misinterpretations in translating from other languages, some ancient, to English.  We see that in the various DDJ's - and you have to read many translations to triangulate the truth of it.  And add to that that each translator will have a different level of Awareness; and as such, he will only write as high as his eyes can see.    But from our metaphysical understanding, we know that all is One, that linear time is an illusion, and that Jesus or anyone you want from the past or future is actually Here Now.  So it really all runs together at some point.

Hello Manitou,  I've lost some interest in the transcendental melting pot free-for-all and some of the endless pointers about it,  (although and of course do not deny the "Source")    Thing is Jesus and other great masters and beings are also particular souls with particular histories and places in the scheme of manifestation.  So now my interest is more about the soul level and the scheme of things -- since the transcendental can very well take care of itself, thank you.

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

 

I'd say its more about looking within one's own heart and discovering the truth for themselves.  Any "platitude" or "summation" is just a finger pointing the way.  Up to the individual to decide what's right for them.  If you want to think of "King Jesus throwing the sinners into flames", that's up to you.  I would think the inner interpretations would be enjoyed more on this forum? Maybe I'm wrong...

umm, Jesus is called the "King of Kings" in the Bible but if that doesn't fit in with various levels of "New Age" thinking or the esoteric in-crowd then lets just toss it out, for its kind of an inconvenient sounding truth.  Anyway Bible quoters can't cherry pick verses and meanings from the Bible and then turn around and also deny many of its basic precepts and still honestly claim that tradition and its teachings as where they are coming from.   Btw, heaven is both within and without, thus denial of its without aspect (as a name) is half-baked.

36 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

I think you are misunderstanding the nature and teaching of Revelations.  In Greek, the meaning of the word is “to reveal”, and not the end of the world. Maybe think of it more like an astral vision of an obscured mind leading to a clearer vision of the nature of God. The “new world” that arises when one comes to walk with Christ.

 

“And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

It is all about clearing out the crap, and finding that “pure river” that is clear as crystal that comes with God and oneness in Christ.

umm, that is after the climax of the horrific war,  with certain beings being assigned to eternal damnation and wherever being thrown into the lake of fire comes in per said revelation.  Thus there is no loving reconciliation there per the Bible;  Btw. we also have like 10,000 Christian sects, New Agers , and all sorts of self-proclaimed esoteric interpreters of the Bible and its meanings...bottom line though is a non-reconcilable heaven and hell per the Bible.  Thus wana-be guru's and dabblers platitudes and summations are not of or found in the Bible.  

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

 

What do you think “evil” is referring to , in the book of revelations? Is it actual beings? Or think the book is symbolic of something else?

So yes there is the internal war within oneself...on the other hand and of course there are actual beings of all kinds, heavenly and hellish, angles and demons, etc. who are at war and have  been for unknown numbers of ages.

again, in certain cases among humans, (although not with the money changers in temple grounds, or with the Pharisees, etc. ) Btw. are you seriously forgetting the Book of Revelations...with the wrath of God and heaven falling upon evil, thus no  more forgiveness or love there,  and the King of Kings and his Angles do not turn the other cheek in that horrific war beyond human knowing.

so be it among humans...btw. there is no mention of Jesus forgiving evil forces or taking a "love thine enemy" position with them...(more like the opposite of that) thus to me that is one of the irreconcilable dualistic dichotomies held in "Christianity".

"to return" is also likened to the path of the renunciate to me...so in my understanding a "celebration" (or shift in meaning and attention)  to the internal takes the place of the celebration of the external.  Yet with the goal of freedom=joy in either an apparent external or internal. 

3 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

We never left anywhere when we are born  and did not go anywhere when we die. Starts and stops are the fable of the human mind.

 

In this story land I am separated by this birth and death.

 

The story can be dark and depressing or light and everlasting as all moments are one moment BUT the mind will have  its own moments conflicted and confused but as the dust settles we find that the negative is a companion of death and the positive is the companion of life.

 

Then  two gates mysteriously appear which one would you like to enter? Do you want to move forward and go along with things to the gate of death or turn around and go back through the gate of life?  Life will only take a second so we can surf on the top of this rotating planet or be crushed by its own weight with every turn.

 

So when the sun comes up tomorrow just know that the sun never moved,

 

 

then again consider these lines:

"....to be great is to go on

to go on is to be far,

to be far is to return..."

thus to me no denial or rejection of the manifest.

An interesting video about ancient peoples in and around India...resolution only ok.

simply put "life" does not die, but death does.

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

Everything that came before this point, your experiences friends places, are dead, they are ... not existing.

You might say that you have lived 50 years, but where is it. 
Imagining that you carry it around with you as a possession that you reminisce about.
But it is not there any more, it has died already.

Have no fear that when your body dies, that your many years, your 80 years of life will come to an end. 

No, they are already gone.   
They have gone the moment they arrive.
It is finished, non-existent.

Clinging on to ghosts might be an entertainment, but it is only as a protection against now.

Existence is kind for it does not punish us for holding ghosts to ourselves out of fear, it gives us a lot of room.

Yesterday is gone as if it never existed.
Where does it exist ?   Nowhere.
Your inner substance is like a lens, the light of time flows through it, but it is always Now.
The only thing that remains of time, is lens through which it passes.
Arising in time are many things, and they perish also, all perishes.

Like waves smashing on a lighthouse endlessly.
Only I remains.

In my relationships I have a tenuous connection to someone, for a time.
Perhaps if we go beyond time when we are together, after time we will still be together.

oh, sounds like  mostly nihilistic and twisted up 4th way misunderstandings and misrepresentations.

are you going to compile a book of everything, Everything?  ;-)

i might add a tangent by saying that "no-time and no-space" are also connected to all-time and all-space

another chicken or the egg problem...

one type of knowledge  can not be gained or lost...all the rest can be gained and lost in time.