Mark Foote

I bear in mind that there have been many changes in the interpretations of the teaching, even in the Theravadin tradition. In the end, I'm going with: Therefore… be ye lamps unto yourselves. Be ye a refuge unto yourselves. Betake yourselves to no external refuge. Hold fast to the Truth as a lamp. Hold fast as a refuge to the Truth. Look not for refuge to any one besides yourselves. And how… is (one) to be a lamp unto (oneself), a refuge unto (oneself), betaking (oneself) to no external refuge, holding fast to the Truth as a lamp, holding fast as a refuge to the Truth, looking not for refuge to any one besides (oneself)? Herein, … (one) continues, as to the body, so to look upon the body that (one) remains strenuous, self-possessed, and mindful, having overcome both the hankering and the dejection common in the world. [And in the same way] as to feelings… moods… ideas, (one) continues so to look upon each that (one) remains strenuous, self-possessed, and mindful, having overcome both the hankering and the dejection common in the world. (Digha Nikaya ii 100, Pali Text Society DN Vol. II pg 108) Isn't the question really the meaning of "one-pointedness", of "one-pointedness of mind"? That's the consistent thing in the four initial concentrations, in my reading, and in my practice these days. I'll wait, then! I don't practice sleep or dream yogas, I just look to fall into one-pointedness of mind as I am waking up or falling asleep. The thing about insight meditation--how exactly is a person supposed to see the chain of dependent causation for themselves, without experiencing the cessation of ("determinate thought" in) feeling and perceiving? And to do that, is to have arrived at the concentration that eluded Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta (Gautama's teachers), and which required the supremely talented Gautama the Shakyan six years under the Bodhi tree--right? I do see that action of the "consciousness-informed body" is possible, without "determinate thought". From that, I have an appreciation for the illusory nature of identifications of self in the five groups, but I can't claim to have cut off the hindrances like cutting off a palm tree at the stump, and I can't claim to have the perfect wisdom of insight into dependent causation. I only have enough to appreciate Gautama's way of living, mindfulness in the four arisings, which I believe involved regular experience of the cessation of ("determinate thought" in) the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation. I don't hear anybody teaching that. Maybe they're teaching it, but not in so many words?

a high school friend said: this poem has no marked foot --fell out of my seat...

that were never meant, those vain thoughts were never meant not worth the penny

Thanks for the dialogue, snowymountains. In the Anapanassati Sutta, the Buddha mentions the Parimukha. The Parimukha ( nostrils or upper lip ) is discussed in the Pali Canon, you can look at jhana-vibhango, 537. From the footnotes on Thanissaro Bhikkyu's translation of Anapanasati: To the fore (parimukham): The Abhidhamma takes an etymological approach to this term, defining it as around (pari-) the mouth (mukham). In the Vinaya, however, it is used in a context (Cv.V.27.4) where it undoubtedly means the front of the chest. There is also the possibility that the term could be used idiomatically as "to the front," which is how I have translated it here. I don't accept the interpretations of the authors of the Abhidhamma, they don't match what's actually taught in the sermons of the first four Nikayas, in the few cases I've had occasion to examine--like this one. I'm sticking with the first four Nikayas, which are considered to be the most historically accurate (by A. K. Warder in his "indian Buddhism" and I believe others). In Thanissaro's translation of Anapanasati (and I. B. Horner's translation for the Pali Text Society is very similar), the sentence reads: There is the case where a monk, having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building, sits down folding his legs crosswise, holding his body erect, and setting mindfulness to the fore. (https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.118.than.html) I think there may be prediliction among Southeast Asian Theravadins to teach a focus on the nostrils or the upper lip. Anapansati is all about setting mindfulness to the fore, is it not? No toast for Mark, and I could almost taste it, ha ha! Also the reference to the "whole body" is a reference to the whole body of the breath/the totality of the breath, not our physical body. Absolutely right. Horner goes so far as to translate "whole (breath-)body". I'm certain you're right about the emphasis on the hara predating Rujing. Not sure there are references to it in Dogen. I wonder about where teachings that emphasized the hara first showed up in Asia---maybe Shaolin? "... the point of focus chosen by the historical Buddha..." Unclear to me what you're referring to as "the point of focus". Gautama did speak of "one-pointedness", and of "one-pointedness of mind", and indeed he asserted that "one-pointedness of mind" was the fundamental characteristic of concentration: And what… is the (noble) right concentration with the causal associations, with the accompaniments? It is right view, right purpose, right speech, right action, right mode of livelihood, right endeavor, right mindfulness. Whatever one-pointedness of mind is accompanied by these seven components , this… is called the (noble) right concentration with the causal associations and the accompaniments. (MN III 71, Pali Text Society vol III p 114; similar at SN V 17; “noble” substituted for Ariyan) I would say that "one-pointedness" is more like: There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. (Common Ground) The attention placed by necessity is one-pointed. I have recommended to friends that they look for the experience right before they fall asleep, and several have reported better success at falling asleep as a result. For me, "one-pointedness" is also the key to waking up--it's kind of an interface between the unconscious and consciousness, and can be the source of the activity of the body: The difficulty is that most people will lose consciousness before they cede activity to the location of attention–they lose the presence of mind with the placement of attention, because they can’t believe that action in the body is possible without “doing something”. (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages)

If you can quote me a sermon in the first four Nikayas where Gautama mentions the nostrils or the upper lip, I'll eat my hat (which I'm crafting now out of buttered toast). Here are the four elements of the mindfulness of the body, that were a part of Gautama's way of living: … Setting mindfulness in front of (oneself), (one) breathes in mindfully and mindfully breathes out. As (one) draws in a long breath (one) knows: A long breath I draw in. [As (one) breathes out a long breath (one) knows: I breathe out a long breath.] As (one) draws in a short breath (one) knows: A short breath I draw in. As (one) breathes out a short breath (one) knows: I breathe out a short breath. Thus (one) makes up (one’s) mind: I shall breathe in, feeling it go through the whole body. Feeling it go through the whole body I shall breath out. Calming down the bodily aggregate I shall breathe in. Calming down the bodily aggregate I shall breathe out. (SN V 312, Pali Text Society Vol V p 275-276; tr. F. L. Woodward; masculine pronouns replaced, re-paragraphed) I'm wondering why you say this is meditation on the memory of breath? The emphasis on the hara, or the tanden (dan t'ien), came later, as with Dogen's teacher Rujing: Breath enters and reaches the tanden, and yet there is no place from which it comes. Therefore it is neither long nor short. Breath emerges from the tanden, and yet there is nowhere it goes. Therefore it is neither short nor long. (“Eihei Koroku (Dogen's Extensive Record)" vol. 5, #390, trans. Okumura) I would disagree with your assessment that "In Zen... , the focus/point-of-awareness is the Dan Tien". I would say: There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. (Common Ground) Happens that attention can come to be consistently placed at a point in the lower abdomen. Nevertheless, the free placement of attention engendered out of necessity in the movement of breath is innate: When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages)

I read a few Cliff Notes in high school. Lucky to have passed those English classes, and I had no idea how to write until I undertook to write for my own edification. So I'll be passing on the famous and probably wonderful Russian masterpiece, thanks liminal_luke--nonfiction for me, I'm afraid. thelearner--I took HTML and CSS at a local junior college in 2009, along with PHP. Was a wonderful experience, except for the midterm in the PHP class, where we were free to consult the web and I discovered most of the questions were based on some online material that was not so simple. The instructor expected people to finish in an hour, and I was at the library 3+ hours, although part of it was composing the complaint to the instructor with links. The final was much better. I wrote my own blog in PHP, which I transitioned to a WordPress site a few years back (why maintain for new PHP versions when WordPress does it for me, and looks better to boot). Javascript is the other necessity, and I learned that as part of a team that built the basic math tutorial software for the same college. Our team leader, the genius of the squad, elected to use the Angular framework (there are two main frameworks, Angular from Google and React from Facebook), though now I hear he inclines more to just basic Javacript. I inclined that way from the start--why add to the difficulty in understanding the code by layering someone else's idea of the right way to do things on top of it! One hour to write the code, six hours to read it when revisited,--that's what they say. I recently started doing some Xing Yi exercises again, as outlined in "Xing Yi Nei Gong", compiled and edited by Miller and Cartnell. I hope I can continue that in the New Year, I used to do them daily, and I feel better when I do. And scales on the guitar. A friend organizes her practice by doing the minor scale from a chosen note (say C minor), the the major (C major), then the minor of that major (A minor), and so on through four beginning scale notes. Next day she starts a step higher, and by the end of her practice on the third day she's done all 12 starting notes. I appreciate the approach, and hope I can keep at it and not get discouraged at my own disorganization, as I have in the past. I hope that I can carry forward an organization of my practice, on the cushion and on the dance floor, that is relatively new to me. The ability to stay awake as necessity places attention from moment to moment requires only a return to the freedom of that attention to take place anywhere in the body. All the same, finding ease in the experience, and then abandoning ease to cease "doing something" altogether, requires a lot of sleep! At least for me. Not like the monks in China before 1950, who got up at 3:30am, were permitted to sleep sitting up during the 6am sitting, took a nap at 4pm, and went on to 10:30p every night. Like my cat, they were sleeping after every meal. Happy New Year, All! correction--reading again the description of the monks' day in "The Practice of Chinese Buddhism 1900-1950", by Holmes Welch, I find that breakfast was after the sitting where monks were permitted to sleep (5:15am), and the afternoon nap (4p-6p) was two hours after the lunch (2p). Also sounds like the main meal of the day was after a 90-minute sitting period at 6pm--since the monks remained seated for the meal, long time in at least a half-lotus (Burmese was not permitted). Seven periods of sitting and running, through the course of a day, except in sesshin weeks, when the monks only got night-time sleep between 1am and 3am. These times were apparently the standard at model monasteries, others might be more relaxed.

I don't think it's straightforward. Gautama taught initial and further meditative states, particular states in a particular order. "Determinate thought", or volition, in action ceased in some of these states. In particular, volition in speech ceased in the first, volition in inhalation and exhalation (and activity of the body generally) ceased in the fourth, and volition in feeling and perceiving (activity of the mind) ceased in the last. Here's the thing--Gautama taught the four truths, and you could say insight into the four truths was his enlightenment. Presumably that insight arrived with the cessation of "determinate thought" in feeling and perceiving, yet he never makes the connection explicit. How does a person go about ceasing willful action, abandoning intent, relinquishing deliberation in such a fashion as to bring about the meditative states, and in particular the cessation of "determinate thought" in speech, body, and mind? By means of lack of desire, said Gautama; whatever you think a particular meditative state to be, he said, it is otherwise. With the attainment of the ceasing of ("determinate thought" in) feeling in perceiving, presumably it's apparent that the exercise of will or intent results in a persistence of consciousness, which in turn results in a stationing of consciousness, which results in a recurrence of consciousness. An identification of self with the body, the feelings, the mind, the habitual activities, or the mental states accompanies the recurrence of consciousness, and Gautama taught that such identification is suffering. That insight was apparently his enlightenment. It's my opinion, which I've expressed before, that most of what passes for enlightenment is the attainment of the cessation of "determinate thought" in the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation, and the ability to incorporate that cessation in a mindfulness of body, feelings, thought, and mental states so as to constitute a way of living. That was Gautama's way of living "most of the time", something he said was "perfect in itself, and a pleasant way of living besides". Kodo Sawaki: gain is delusion, loss is enlightenment. Hakuin, on how his enlightenment made him ill, and he was healed by the "butter" meditation: https://buddhismnow.com/2015/09/12/zen-sickness-by-zen-master-hakuin/ 12th century Chinese teacher Foyan on Zen sicknesses: In my school, there are only two kinds of sickness. One is to go looking for a donkey riding on the donkey. The other is to be unwilling to dismount once having mounted the donkey. … Once you have recognized the donkey, to mount it and be unwilling to dismount is the sickness that is most difficult to treat. I tell you that you need not mount the donkey; you are the donkey! (“Instant Zen: Waking Up in the Present”, tr T. Cleary, Shambala p 4; I have an explanation, here)

That was interesting, about a relationship between needles at particular points in the fascia and proximal nerves. I wonder if there could be a relationship between dermatomes and acupuncture points.

I couldn't get past his opening statements. "Ignorance is something that is overcome in school, studying books", he said, or something to that effect. So he prefers delusion as the first element of the chain of causal conditions. My view is that the ignorance at the head of the causal chain is the ignorance of "things as it is", as Shunryu Suzuki put it: In a word, Zen is the teaching or practice to see “things as it is” or to accept “things as it is” and to raise things as it goes. This is the fundamental purpose of our practice and meaning of Zen. But it is, actually, rather difficult to see “things as it is.” ... The point is to find our position moment after moment, and to live with people moment after moment according to the place is the purpose of our practice. ("Using Various Stones", Shunryu Suzuki; Friday, September 8, 1967; Tassajara) When you find your place where you are, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point. When you find your way at this moment, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point… ("Genjo Koan", Dogen, tr. Tanahashi) I didn't get past that opening set of statements, in the first video. The second link in the causal chain as it is usually given is the activities, meaning the habitual or volitive activities, with consciousness as the third link--does he mention that?

But usually in counting breathing or following breathing, you feel as if you are doing something, you know– you are following breathing, and you are counting breathing. This is, you know, why counting breathing or following breathing practice is, you know, for us it is some preparation– preparatory practice for shikantaza because for most people it is rather difficult to sit, you know, just to sit. (“The Background of Shikantaza”; Shunryu Suzuki, Sunday, February 22, 1970, San Francisco; transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) Of course, to have good shikantaza, we have preparatory zazen. You know, from old, old time, you know, we have that technical term, konpunjo. Konpunjo means “to enter,” you know. That is started from Theravada practice, you know. To prepare for the first stage or second stage or third stage, they practice some special practice. Those practice is not the practice of the first stage or second stage or third stage, but to prepare for those stages. (70-02-22: The Background of Shikantaza, “question and answer”) I can describe the practices of the first four stages, based on my own experience, and I can give links to the posts I've written that include Gautama's instructions. That's as you say, whocoulditbe?, cake recipes--they've been very helpful to me. "Preparatory practices". I would say ChiDragon and Cobie are right that instruction can just get in the way. From my last post on my own site: When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com)

The cessation of ("determinate thought" in the activity of the body in) inbreathing and outbreathing can take place in an instant, but not through thought per se: …I have seen that the ceasing of the activities is gradual. When one has attained the first trance, speech has ceased. When one has attained the second trance, thought initial and sustained has ceased. When one has attained the third trance, zest has ceased. When one has attained the fourth trance, inbreathing and outbreathing have ceased.. Both perception and feeling have ceased when one has attained the cessation of perception and feeling. (SN IV 217, Pali Text Society vol IV p 146) With the cessation of ("determinate thought" in) feeling and perceiving, the cankers are brought to a close: …[an individual] comprehends thus, ‘This concentration of mind … is effected and thought out. But whatever is effected and thought out, that is impermanent, it is liable to stopping.’ When [the individual] knows this thus, sees this thus, [their] mind is freed from the canker of sense-pleasures and [their] mind is freed from the canker of becoming and [their] mind is freed from the canker of ignorance. In freedom is the knowledge that [one] is freed and [one] comprehends: “Destroyed is birth, brought to a close the (holy)-faring, done is what was to be done, there is no more of being such or so’. [They] comprehend thus: “The disturbances there might be resulting from the canker of sense-pleasures do not exist here; the disturbances there might be resulting from the canker of becoming do not exist here; the disturbances there might be resulting from the canker of ignorance do not exist here. And there is only this degree of disturbance, that is to say the six sensory fields that, conditioned by life, are grounded on this body itself.” (MN III 108-109, Pali Text Society Vol III p 151-152) With the cankers no longer extant, a chain of causation can become evident: That which we will…, and that which we intend to do and that wherewithal we are occupied:–this becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness. Consciousness being stationed and growing, rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and here from birth, decay, and death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow, and despair come to pass. Such is the uprising of this mass of ill. Even if we do not will, or intend to do, and yet are occupied with something, this too becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness… whence birth… takes place. But if we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being absent, there comes to be no station of consciousness. Consciousness not being stationed and growing, no rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and herefrom birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow and despair cease. Such is the ceasing of this entire mass of ill. (SN II 65, Pali Text Society SN Vol II pg 45) “Birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow and despair”—in some of his lectures, Gautama summarized “this entire mass of ill” by saying “in short, the five groups of grasping”. Grasping after a sense of self in connection with phenomena of form, feeling, mind, habitual tendency, or mental state is identically suffering, according to Gautama.

I think the cankers are given in different formulations in the Pali sermons. The one I find most thought provoking is as the canker of sense-pleasures, the canker of becoming, and the canker of ignorance. I don't think he really defined terms, either. I have come to assume that "becoming" is a reference to something like: That which we will…, and that which we intend to do and that wherewithal we are occupied:–this becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness. Consciousness being stationed and growing, rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and here from birth, decay, and death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow, and despair come to pass. Such is the uprising of this mass of ill. (SN II 65, Pali Text Society SN Vol II pg 45) We become inured to the occurrence of the chain, and the re-manifestation of consciousness. The usual first link in the chain of causation is ignorance, and ignorance gives rise to habitual or willful activity. I'm thinking that the canker of ignorance is the failure to experience the presence of mind with the placement of attention, placement out of necessity in the moment. The five hindrances are to be overcome, before concentration can take place: “But, [Gautama], what is the condition, what the cause of not knowing and not seeing? How do not knowing and not seeing have a condition and a cause?” “At such time, prince, as one dwells with heart possessed and overwhelmed by sensual lust, and knows not, sees not in very truth any refuge from sensual lust that has arisen, –this, prince, is the cause of not knowing. of not seeing. Thus not knowing, not seeing have a condition, a cause.” “Then again, prince, at such time as one dwells with heart possessed by malevolence… by sloth and torpor… by excitement and flurry… by doubt and wavering, and knows not, sees not in very truth any refuge therefrom, –this, prince, is the condition, this is the cause of not knowing, of not seeing. Thus, prince, not knowing and not seeing have a condition, have a cause.” “What, [Gautama] is this method of teaching called?” “These, prince, are called –‘the hindrances’”. (SN V 127, Vol V pg 108)

I realize that you posted this in 2005, and that your practice has changed. Nevertheless. To the first part of your concern, "techniques in between": A friend of mine recommended a particular approach to practicing musical scales. She starts with the minor scale from a particular note, for example D minor. She follows with the major scale (D major), and then the relative minor of that major key (B minor). She continues in this fashion four rounds, then picks up the next day with the next minor. In three days, she’s made a circuit of scales. I”ve tried in the past to practice scales, but found myself giving up in short order. The organization in her approach is helpful to me, and though I’m not practicing as regularly as she does (she’s a performing musician, as well as a teacher), I have begun to practice. I wrote to my friend: The striking thing to me about my experience on the cushion these days is that I am practicing some kind of scales, as it were. Gautama outlined the feeling of four states, the initial three and then the “purity by the pureness of [one’s] mind”, the fourth. I’ve described that “pureness of mind” as what remains when “doing something” ceases, and I wrote: When “doing something” has ceased, and there is “not one particle of the body” that cannot receive the placement of attention, then the placement of attention is free to shift as necessary in the movement of breath. The interesting part is that according to Gautama, the ease which accompanies the first three states ceases in the fourth, and it’s only the “purity by the pureness of [one’s] mind” that remains, along with a feeling like a cloth covering the head and the entire body (the cloth I think describes an ease in the nerve exits along the sacrum and spine, such that the dermatomes along the surface of the skin are sensitized). The rest of the scales are looking for a grip where attention takes place in the body, as “one-pointedness” turns and engenders a counter-turn (without losing the freedom of movement of attention); finding ligaments that control reciprocal innervation in the lower body and along the spine through relaxation, and calming the stretch of ligaments; and discovering hands, feet, and teeth together with “one-pointedness" (“bite through here”, as Yuanwu advised; “then we can walk together hand in hand”, as Yuanwu’s teacher Wu Tsu advised). The third state is the one where the sages reside, according to Gautama. That makes the third state a standout, even if the fourth state is the major cessation (the cessation of “doing something” in activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation), and even if cessation is the cornerstone of the mindfulness that made up Gautama’s way of living. Regarding the states, Gautama said, "whatever one imagines them to be, they are otherwise." I remind myself of the freedom of attention to shift and move, that freedom being the agency of the unfolding of my true nature. I don't experience bliss, just an ease--again, from the letter to my friend: In my last post, I wrote: The difficulty is that most people will lose consciousness before they cede activity to the location of attention–they lose the presence of mind with the placement of attention, because they can’t believe that action in the body is possible without “doing something”’. I begin to see that as I gain faith in action out of the placement of attention, I can find a feeling of ease, a feeling that I can extend “so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded by this… ease” (a characteristic Gautama ascribed to the first three meditative states). Enabling the rentention of a hynagogic state, as it were--the ease of falling asleep, while yet awake.

I don't know if there's a passage in the first four Nikayas of the Pali Canon, the four that are thought to be most historically accurate, that expounds the kind of nondiscrimination in the passage stirling quoted. I think that approach came later. That said, my understanding is that the emphasis on nondiscrimination is really intended to open consciousness to the experience of the "place where you are" (as Dogen put it) as the source of action. Whether or not that kind of emphasis works, I doubt it, but as Katagiri said, when you're a Zen master and Saturday lecture time rolls around, "you have to say something". Yes, I'm casting aspersions on the 3rd patriarch! Like the Zen master who, no matter what was asked of him or who was asking it, just said: "have some tea."

Sung by a Scotsman. Note the Scottish custom of crossing arms and joining hands! Happy holidays, all, and all the best in the New Year! The text is a Scots-language poem written by Robert Burns in 1788 but based on an older Scottish folk song. In 1799, it was set to a traditional tune, which has since become standard. (Wikipedia) Stirling Castle is in Scotland (somewhere!).

To enjoy our life-- complicated life, difficult life-- without ignoring it, and without being caught by it. Without suffer from it. That is actually what will happen to us after you practice zazen. (“To Actually Practice Selflessness”, August Sesshin Lecture Wednesday, August 6, 1969, San Francisco; transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) Suzuki puts the emphasis on practice. There's the famous line attributed to the founder of Soto Zen, Dogen, about "practice is enlightenment; enlightenment is practice". For me, all that Dogen is saying is, that it's not possible to give up attraction, aversion, and ignorance by the exercise of will, the exercise of intent, or by deliberation. Neither is the kind of practice most people think of in connection with Zen going to actually do the trick: But usually in counting breathing or following breathing, you feel as if you are doing something, you know– you are following breathing, and you are counting breathing. This is, you know, why counting breathing or following breathing practice is, you know, for us it is some preparation– preparatory practice for shikantaza because for most people it is rather difficult to sit, you know, just to sit. (“The Background of Shikantaza”; Shunryu Suzuki, Sunday, February 22, 1970, San Francisco; transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) But there is a practice. I think Soto teachers in general equate real zazen with shikantaza. And shikantaza is, in a sense, doing nothing, but more accurately it is the cessation of action of speech, body, and mind by which one contacts freedom: And what… is the ceasing of action? That ceasing of action by body, speech, and mind, by which one contacts freedom,–that is called ‘the ceasing of action’. (SN IV 145, Pali Text Society Vol IV p 85) If I give a f*ck about freedom, then I am bound to come home.

I find it very helpful to think out loud or in writing, and Dao Bums has been very useful to me in that regard. I think that's true for most of the participants here, which explains why no one is persuaded by anything anyone else says. It's all about thinking out loud for oneself. I find that what I say or write only has the potential to return to me in the future, if what I speak or write now is positive. A funny thing about hypnotic suggestion--so far as I know the suggestion has to be positive to have an effect. If I speak or write to myself from the heart in a positive way, I may not have the complete picture (and a complete picture may not be possible), but I can at least keep filling in pieces.

There are a lot of suttas in the first four Nikayas of the Pali Canon where Gautama disputes the views of another, maybe more correctly dismantles the logic of another. An example: [Gautama] spoke thus to the monk Sati, a fisherman’s son, as he was sitting down at a respectful distance: ‘Is it true, as is said, that a pernicious view like this has accrued to you, Sati: “In so far as I understand [the truth] taught by [Gautama], it is that this consciousness itself runs on, fares on, not another”?’ ‘Even so do I… understand [the teaching] ….’ ‘What is this consciousness, Sati?’ ‘It is this… that speaks, that feels, that experiences now here, now there, the fruition of deeds that are lovely and that are depraved.’ [Gautama rebukes Sati for his misrepresentation of Gautama’s teaching, and continues:] It is because… an appropriate condition arises that consciousness is known by this or that name: if consciousness arises because of eye and material shapes, it is known as visual consciousness; if consciousness arises because of ear and sounds, it is known as auditory consciousness; [so for the nose/smells/olfactory consciousness, tongue/tastes/gustatory consciousness, body/touches/tactile consciousness, mind/mental objects/mental consciousness]. …As a fire burns because of this or that appropriate condition, by that it is known: if a fire burns because of sticks, it is known as a stick-fire; and if a fire burns because of chips, it is known as a chip-fire; … and so with regard to grass, cow-dung, chaff, and rubbish.” (MN I 258-259, Vol I pg 313-315) Poor Sati, embarassed in front of all his friends (kidding). Yeah, Gautama was a weird one. Declaring himself a "world-turner" to the first person he met after his enlightenment, an ascetic who basically walked on from the encounter without giving Gautama the time of day. Having to persuade the five ascetics that he used to hang with to listen to him. Gautama the mysogenist (there's a lecture where he disparages women). Gautama who believed in beings of spontaneous uprising (fairies), and the miracle of stroking the sun and moon with the hand. Gautama who enjoyed walking on the highway with no one in front or behind more than answering the call of nature (and in an opposing lecture, enjoying the calls of nature more than walking on the highway, who would think that made any sense except as an addition by later editors to prevent monks from soiling their robes!). That's why I value David Chadwick's contribution to Soto Zen in California, he put the human side of Shunryu Suzuki on display for the world to see, knowing that Suzuki had discouraged any biography of himself. Reading the actual transcripts of Suzuki's lectures, instead of "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind", I discover a different Suzuki, one whose words are less prescriptive and more in keeping with Gautama's teachings (I've been writing about it, on my site). Dao Bums, bringing us back to the universal. I'm for it.

I'm with you on that, that's my approach too, although I think most modern interpretations don't match well with the Pali Suttas. I bought the Pali Text Society translations of the first four Nikayas, back in the '80's. Read them all, at least the sermons that interested me (and scanned the rest). There are some in Thailand who are very clear that the teaching is about the cessation of "doing something" in speech, body, and mind, but many who interpret the teaching as "bare attention" (from Satipatthana, I think), and it's the "bare attention" that has caught the interest of most Western interpreters. So far as I can tell. Alas. It was the great hope of the abbot of Golden Mountain Monastery in San Francisco and Land of Ten Thousand Buddhas in Talmadge, near Ukiah, CA, that the Theravadin and Ch'an traditions could be reconciled. He gifted 100+ acres to a Theravadin Thai forest tradition lineage for a monastery near Ukiah. I think it will be a long time before the folks in that monastery really see eye to eye with the folks in his, but I think he was on the money to believe in the reconciliation. Stick me with needles, I don't care!

I didn't know that Marble Head had passed. Folks come and go here, so one never knows. Rip, indeed. Drew Hempel is still around under a different pseudonym (unless there's someone else on Dao Bums who writes about "O's at a D", and in the same style, ,which I very much doubt). Congratulations on becoming an acupuncturist, and taking up a Buddhist practice. Wonder which of the many branches that practice might originate with... I have a good friend, who attended Naropa for awhile (I think she got a masters in Buddhist psychology there), who is now nothing but disillusioned with the Shambala tribe. There's a sad story, for sure. Bringing Buddhism to the USA, not without its missteps and some pain along the way. Stirling and I go round and round, on a lot of threads. The last go-round I think touched on the major issue confronting Soto Zen Buddhism in California: That is a kind of strength which you will gain by your tummy here. When your mind is here or here, you know, it means you are entertaining them (images in the mind). If your mind is here, you are not concern—concerned too much about the image you have in your mind. So, try to keep right posture, with some power in your tummy. ("Practice Zazen With Your Whole Mind And Body", Shunryu Suzuki Transcript, Friday, September 8, 1967) There are instructions to do this and do that with the body in the offerings of many Zen teachers. My take on that is that I’m bound to end up in the wrong place, if I take the advice to mean there’s something I should do. I can understand stirling's desire to reject that kind of advice altogether. But that is precisely the issue that must be addressed, IMHO, in Soto Zen in the West. Maybe you are pursuing another strand of the teachings. It's a wonderful world.

As to why the abandonment of intent, of "doing something" has a cooling effect (from a post of mine on another thread): That which we will, results in an object for the persistence of consciousness. "The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness." When "we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness", and consciousness takes place freely, according to our nature: There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. (Common Ground) ... When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages)

Sargant's "Battle for the Mind" clued me in to particular phenomena associated with religious experience, and religious conversion. My whole life since, I have aimed to have the first, without the second. Philosophy doesn't treat with the kind of religious experience associated with healing (and with conversion), so I haven't been interested in the subject. I'm not the one to judge the quality of Stanford's "Encyclopedia". For me, some experience is necessary to make sense of the teachings. Then a hell of a lot of work is necessary to apply the teachings to continue to have such experience in daily living, in the midst of a civilization that largely does not.

The definition of right view depends in part on the definition of wrong view; the definition of wrong view was given as follows: “There is no (result of) gift … no (result of) offering … no (result of) sacrifice; there is no fruit or ripening of deeds well done or ill done; there is not this world, there is not a world beyond; there is no (benefit from serving) mother and father; there are no beings of spontaneous uprising; there are not in the world recluses and brahmans… who are faring rightly, proceeding rightly, and who proclaim this world and the world beyond having realized them by their own super-knowledge.” (MN III 71-78, Pali Text Society III p 113-121) “Beings of spontaneous uprising” appears to be a reference to fairy-like beings that spring into existence without parents (several classes of fairy-like beings were believed to exist in Vedic folklore; see notes, SN III 249, Vol III pg 197). Right view, said Gautama, is twofold. First, there is the right view which is exactly the opposite of wrong view; this, however, is the view “that has cankers, that is on the side of merit, that ripens unto cleaving (to new birth)”. The right view which is “[noble], supermundane, cankerless and a component of the way” is: “Whatever … is wisdom, the cardinal faculty of wisdom, the power of wisdom, the component of enlightenment which is investigation into things, the right view that is a component of the Way in one who, by developing the [noble] Way, is of [noble] thought, conversant with the [noble] Way–this… is a right view that is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way.” (Ibid) (Making Sense of the Pali Canon: the Wheel of the Sayings, by yours truly) "There is fruit or ripening of deeds well done or ill done" would be right view "that has cankers, that is on the side of merit, that ripens unto cleaving (to new birth)”. Here's a dialogue where the brahmin Dona questions Gautama the Sakyan about would become of Gautama after death: "Then your worship will become a human being?" "No indeed, brahman, I'll not become a human being." ... "Who then, pray, will your worship become?" Brahmin, those asavas whereby, if they were not abandoned, I should become... a human being,--those asavas in me are abandoned, cut off at the root, made like a palm tree stump, made non-existent, of a nature not to arise again in future time. Just as, brahmin, a lotus, blue, red, or white, though born in the water, grown up in the water, when it reaches the surface stands there unsoiled by the water,--just so, brahmin, though born in the world, grown up in the world, having overcome the world, I abide unsoiled by the world. Take it that I am a Buddha, brahmin. (AN text ii, 37; iv, IV, 36; Pali Text Society AN II Book of Fours p 44) Much the same thing, 500 years later: Jesus said to His disciples: Make a comparison to Me and tell Me who I am like. ... Thomas said to Him: Master, my mouth will not at all be capable of saying whom Thou are like. Jesus said: I am not thy Master, because thou hast drunk, thou hast from the bubbling spring which I have measured out. (The Gospel According to Thomas, coptic text established and translated by A. Guillaumont, H.-CH. Puech, G. Quispel, W. Till and Yassah ‘Abd Al Masih, p 9 log. 13, ©1959 E. J. Brill) I realize I'm not actually answering your fundamental question, how did a belief in reincarnation become so widespread. I just wanted to point out, that the people I respect the most in the history of the world did not actually share in that belief, even though their followers may have. Gautama got so tired of Ananda asking him the fate of individuals who had perished, that he told Ananda to judge for himself based on how they lived their lives; a dodge if ever there was one.

Not wishing to wrongly grasp any snakes, I had to click away. The snake quote, according to the narrator of the video, is from Nagarjuna: There is unanimous agreement that Nāgārjuna (ca 150–250 CE) is the most important Buddhist philosopher after the historical Buddha himself and one of the most original and influential thinkers in the history of Indian philosophy. His philosophy of the “middle way” (madhyamaka) based around the central notion of “emptiness” (śūnyatā) influenced the Indian philosophical debate for a thousand years after his death; with the spread of Buddhism to Tibet, China, Japan and other Asian countries the writings of Nāgārjuna became an indispensable point of reference for their own philosophical inquiries. A specific reading of Nāgārjuna’s thought, called Prāsaṅgika-Madhyamaka, became the official philosophical position of Tibetan Buddhism which regards it as the pinnacle of philosophical sophistication up to the present day. (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nagarjuna/) There are those who would argue Nagarjuna's teachings were those of the Gautamid, but I think he was "one of the most original... thinkers in the history of Indian philosophy".

Time passes, and I think I can better express now the heart of Gautama's teaching. Gautama’s teaching revolved around action, around one specific kind of action: …I say that determinate thought is action. When one determines, one acts by deed, word, or thought. (AN III 415, Pali Text Society Vol III p 294) “When one determines”—when a person exercises volition, or choice, action of “deed, word, or thought” follows. Gautama also spoke of “the activities”. The activities are the actions that take place as a consequence of the exercise of volition: And what are the activities? These are the three activities:–those of deed, speech and mind. These are activities. (SN II 3, Pali Text Society vol II p 4) Gautama claimed that a ceasing of “action” is possible: And what… is the ceasing of action? That ceasing of action by body, speech, and mind, by which one contacts freedom,–that is called ‘the ceasing of action’. (SN IV 145, Pali Text Society Vol IV p 85) He spoke in detail about how “the activities” come to cease: …I have seen that the ceasing of the activities is gradual. When one has attained the first trance, speech has ceased. When one has attained the second trance, thought initial and sustained has ceased. When one has attained the third trance, zest has ceased. When one has attained the fourth trance, inbreathing and outbreathing have ceased… Both perception and feeling have ceased when one has attained the cessation of perception and feeling. (SN IV 217, Pali Text Society vol IV p 146) (A Way of Living) The "cessation of ('determinate thought' in) feeling and perceiving" is the attainment associated with Gautama's enlightenment, that enlightenment being his insight into dependent causation. There are numerous listings of the chain of causation, which forms the second of the four truths, the cause of suffering--here's one: That which we will…, and that which we intend to do and that wherewithal we are occupied:–this becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness. Consciousness being stationed and growing, rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and here from birth, decay, and death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow, and despair come to pass. Such is the uprising of this mass of ill. Even if we do not will, or intend to do, and yet are occupied with something, this too becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness… whence birth… takes place. But if we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being absent, there comes to be no station of consciousness. Consciousness not being stationed and growing, no rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and herefrom birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow and despair cease. Such is the ceasing of this entire mass of ill. (SN II 65, Pali Text Society SN Vol II pg 45) I think that ties in well with the teachings I quoted, regarding "determinate thought" as action (that which we will, intend to do, or are preoccupied with is action, and manifests in speech, deed, and thought). One more thing, and I think the picture is complete--here's a recap, from one of the posts on my site, followed by the relevant passage from the Pali sermons: “Birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow and despair”—in some of his lectures, Gautama summarized “this entire mass of ill” by saying “in short, the five groups of grasping”. Grasping after a sense of self in connection with phenomena of form, feeling, mind, habitual tendency, or mental state is identically suffering, according to Gautama: (Response to “Not the Wind, Not the Flag”) “Birth is Ill, old age and decay, sickness, death, sorrow, grief, woe, lamentation, and despair are Ill. Not to get what one desires is Ill. In short, the five groups based on grasping are Ill.” (AN I 176, Vol I pg 160) That which we will, results in an object for the persistence of consciousness. "The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness." When "we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness", and consciousness takes place freely, according to our nature: There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. (Common Ground) ... When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages)