effilang

TESTIMONIAL 37:

 

Greetings Dear ones,

 

I had DYS initiation on 3rd August in Mumbai, India.

 

I had read the testimonials here and actually was a bit skeptical about the involuntary movements... But then i thought, I will see how it goes.. And believe me, I swayed, made mudras while being totally conscious of the experiences...

 

I am really touched by the humbleness of Master Fleming and his team..

 

It was truly a blessing to get the initiation. I am continuing my practice and will share my experience.

 

A big thank you to Xuan Daoji for being pivotal in spreading this knowledge. 🙏

 

Amandeep Singh

TESTIMONIAL 36:

 

Hello Xuan!

 

Before the initiation, Manojkumar would tell us about his waiting for this workshop to happen. That he had to wait for 3 years was beneficial to us, because we got to be in it.

 

He passed on the testimonials which excited me to no end. Wow feel lead me on.

 

We always learnt from Manoj to heal ourselves first (I always believed in this) and our actions should lead to the greatest good of all concerned. And this workshop is definitely based on that premise but on a much higher superior level.

 

Prior to the initiation, we got such wonderful explanations from you. Thank you for that.

 

Day one , all us divine souls were in the presence of the divine masters. The divine team and their cumulative energies set the tone for the day.

 

Nina started with the slide presentation and we were soon sailing on this journey, listening and soaking the knowledge of how it all came to be.

 

The simplicity and eagerness to impart knowledge and nourish our minds in each member of the team was gratifying.

 

The initiation soon happened! And Wow! I realised that my body could move in all kinds of ways. The first few minutes were excruciatingly painful. Yet I couldn’t move. My HFS held me there for as long as I could take it. I couldn’t come up on my own.

 

I had taken my mother with me. She is 78, and in the morning due to heavy rains , she was wet , cold and flustered. She had been in bed for last 5 months due to a leg surgery and some heart issues. Master CP came to lobby and helped revive her. At the end of day one she was all set to come for day 2 . She does not have her body moving. But she feels her hands tingling, shifting pain etc. so she flows with the sensations.

Day one evening as I sat on the bed, I was knocked down and all moves happened in that position.

 

Day two, at the workshop I have bent backwards almost 90 degrees without falling.

 

Every morning is a different experience. Today I called my HFS lying down. There was no physical movement. We were just moving within. Exploring sensations, pain, within. It was different.

 

Last 3 days have been unique. And to know that we have a higher power to guide us on our journey forward is truly gratifying.

 

A big thanks to Master Flyming, Nina , CP, Manojkumar and the entire team for making this possible.

 

Nikhil

TESTIMONIAL 35:

 

This is our first testimonial coming out of India, where we recently concluded the country's first ever Dao Ying (Initiation).

 

It's my pleasure to share this and I'm looking forward to more.

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The first day of the initiation, when Fu Fa Shen first connected with me I felt an immense hold on my back, such that I was fully bent at my waist while sitting. I couldn't lift my back.

Brother CP had said there were a lot of toxins in my belly area.

 

Immediately after the initiation I felt light.

At night I did the meditation and there was a free flowing movement guided by Fu Fa Shen.

 

The next day of the workshop, again we connected to Fu Fa Shen and again Fu Fa Shen guided my body with certain exercises, where my legs were being spread. At times I felt I would fall but I could balance myself.

 

Brother CP observed my stomach had gone softer from the previous day.

 

At night after the workshop I again meditated with FU FA SHEN and since I was tired, there wasn't much movement.

 

Today I was feeling exhausted; probably because of all the toxins being flushed out of my body. I've been feeling very sleepy, which is usually a sign that my body is adjusting to the subtle changes taking place within.

 

There's a distinct calmness and quiet within.

Looking forward to connect each day with Fu Fa Shen and learning of Dao each day.

 

Thank you

Regards,
Abdetaiyeb Motiwala

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For more testimonials, please visit:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/734405999957734?view=permalink&id=973319889399676

 

This is a Taoist altar from our school, in one of our temples in Indonesia:  吉祥宫 Ji Xiang Gong .

 

The being in the middle is Tai Shang Lao Jun (Laozi's consciousness). He is our school's highest spiritual Master in the immaterial realm and the one who bestows Hu Fa Shen (Instructor Spirits) to new Dao Yu (Initiates).

 

It is by his authority alone that we can perform the initiation necessary to connect the student to the sea of consciousness that constitutes his realm of subtlety and that of his appointed representatives. 

 

The being on the right is: Er Lang Shen (The Truth Seeing God of Protection)

 

The being on the left is: Jiu Tian Xuan Nu (The Goddess of The 9th Heaven)

 

All three of these immortals are teachers in our school.

 

Er Lang Shen not long ago became the Hu Fa Shen (pronounced Fu Fa Shen) to one of London's recent initiates.

 

The symbol in the middle of the altar is the character that represents our clan; Tai Shang Men (Grand Supreme Gate), Xiao Yao Pai (Carefree School).

 

It looks very old, perhaps seal script Chinese or even earlier, so it is around 4 to 5,000 years old at least. (Historians correct me). 

 

It means Tai Shang, so you could say that the translation of Tai Shang Men Xiao Yao Pai, if you wanted to translate them both together, is something like:

 

The gate that leads to the supreme in a carefree and natural way.

 

That is a core principle of our school and basically constitutes the essence of Daoism.

 

A little bit about the altar.

 

The 5 fruits represent the five blessings: Wu Fu (五福); and our desire for wealth, health, longevity, a virtuous life and a natural death.

 

At first sight, this may appear to be an altar of religious worship, but in actuality, the practice of Spiritual Daoism places no significance, emphasis or requirement for the worship or religious following of deities. However, in Chinese culture, it is common to venerate those people of high morals, personal and collective achievement, and to erect statues or monuments in their likeness, as a way to show respect, acknowledgement and a sincere appreciation of their influence; and the positive impact they've had and continue to have, on our lives and the lives of others.

 

So, one can if they wish, even set up an altar to venerate their parents in thanks for bringing them up, for guiding them, and supporting them throughout their life.

 

Fundamentally, Spiritual Daoism is non-dogmatic and non-religious. So always remember that, if you see an altar like this in any of our temples, It is not a place of worship, but a place of respect, appreciation, love and spiritual sanctity. It is somewhere where one can find clarity and give thanks to the most important and influential people in their lives.

 

Xiao Yao Pai - School of Spiritual Daoism 

Facebook Group: www.spiritualtaoism.com 

Webpage: www.taoism.education 

Facebook Page: www.xiaoyaopai.eu

Instagram:  www.instagram.com/the.spirit.vibe

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#xiaoyaopai #taoism #xuandaoji #taoyinshu #meditation #laozi #spirituality #neidan #xian #immortality #yoga #taoyin #qigong #taiji #wuji #tao #inspirational #daoyinshu #spiritualawakening #spiritualquotes #love #insight #energyhealing #guidedmeditation

 

 

Warm greetings everyone.

I hope you are keeping well.

 

On behalf of the Tai Shang Men | Xiao Yao Pai School of Spiritual Daoism and courtesy of the Indonesian Daoist Association,

It's my distinct pleasure to formally announce that we will be conducting the 4th European initiation event in London, UK, this year.

 

The purpose of the event is to introduce and share our school's ancient art of spiritual cultivation called, Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu; translated in short as, the Divine Guidance Art.

 

The Divine Guidance Art or The Spiritual Guidance art, as it is sometimes called, is a precursor to modern day Qigong, Taiji and Houtian Neidan (Internal Alchemy) -

and represents the core of Daoism in its spiritual state, as existing before the later formation of its philosophical and religious branches.

 

This is a secular form of spiritual cultivation, which offers a rare methodology for the development of consciousness,

that can be employed universally by practitioners, regardless of their current belief systems. Our art is not to be considered in any way a replacement of your adopted values, but a gentle catalytic supplement towards the unfolding of reality that will aid you to expand in your most natural way in the direction of oneness.

 

The ultimate goal of Dao Yin Shu, thus, is to facilitate the expansion of awareness as regards the multidimensional nature of our reality, to encourage the nurturing and propagation of positive moral, ethical and humanitarian values, to support the development of spiritual independence through the cultivation of subtle energy, and to guide practitioners in the blossoming of their transcendental wisdom with the aim of achieving the absolute perfection of emptiness (kong); or if you will, to achieve complete mergence with the fundamental nature of the Dao/God/Existence/Quantum Reality.

 

Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu is considered to be one of the oldest known Chinese systems of spiritual cultivation with roots dating back to the Yellow Emperor of China: Huangdi - and his legendary master; the Kong Tong mountain hermit, Guangzhengzi.

 

For nearly 5,000 years our school has preserved the ancient art and disseminated its teachings to those ready to embark on the journey of their self-discovery.

 

Why would you want to learn Dao Yin Shu instead of the many other systems of spiritual development available today?

 

Dao Yin Shu is uniquely different to other methods of cultivation. This is primarily due to its inheritance of the progenitor arts of Daoist transmission, which were used to pass information down from the ascended spiritual masters to the student, through a direct and personal medium of communication.

 

To help you understand why and how this is important, and to comprehend the differences between some of the traditions of Daoist cultivation practised today, in comparison to how they were approached in the past, I'll need to give you a little background.

 

There are basically two forms of Dao Yin (Daoist Yoga) that exist today, which encompass the full breadth of Daoist cultivation.

The two methods can be distinguished by their prefix.

 

The parent art is called Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu, while the child art is referred to as Hou Tian Dao Yin Shu.

 

If you look up the word Dao Yin today, you will find a common description stating its meaning as something akin to "guiding" and "stretching". It is assumed that under this terminology and practice, that the limbs of the practitioner are stretched in varying directions and movements to create forms, like those we see in Qigong and Taiji. The aim being, in cultivating and guiding the body's electromagnetic energy along the network of meridian channels, that run throughout the body - so that the physical matter (Jing), subtle energy (Qi) and sprit (Shen) can be invigorated and strengthened to produce hightened states of psychoemotional, energetic and spiritual awareness.

 

This method of Dao Yin is considered "Hou Tian" (Post Heavenly Cultivation), and can be compared in many ways to the varying traditions of cultivation that have survived across the wide selection of spiritual schools present today. This method however, does not retain the "root" of the ancient art.

 

While on its own, the practice of cultivating and manipulating the body's internal energy has been well established for millennia, and is also present in the traditions of other cultures spanning the globe. In Hou Tian, the words "guiding" and "stretching" have been severely misinterpreted on account of a lack of information.

 

The parent art of Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu, that comes before the modern Hou Tian idea of "guiding" and "stretching" the limbs, defines Dao Yin in a very different way.

 

Under this particular definition, the form is classified as Xian Tian or Pre Heavenly Cultivation - and the term "Yin" is actually denoted here as "guidance" (of a teacher), as opposed to "guiding" (of the limbs and energy). The reason for this remarkable difference can be found in the way the teachings of our school were traditionally passed-on in contrast to other Daoist schools, but more importantly, "who" or what carried out the process of passing the information on throughout the apprenticeship of the practitioner.

 

Unlike Hou Tian Dao Yin Shu and the spiritual practices present in many others disciplines, the practitioners of the progenitor form of Daoist cultivation, Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu, could receive the school's complete curriculum only after they partook in a spiritual initiation ceremony, where they were initiated by an authorised Daoist Master of a higher order. During this event, the Master would purge negative energy from the body of the practitioner to clear their vessel and then attune the disciples' higher mind (Yuan Shen) to enter the subtle and higher energy realms of consciousness that resonates with the vibration of our school; in essence, augmenting their ability to perceive information beyond the range of their natural senses.

 

In this state of supernatural perception and vibrational attunement; a resonating harmony is introduced and an opening for a two way connection is established so the master can formally connect the disciple to the celestial branch of their lineage, where the practitioner could be taken under apprenticeship by an authorised immortal spirit (Xian Shen) / ascended spirit existing in the discarnate state.

 

Under the official duty of a guide to an authorised school, the Daoist immortals were referred to as Hu Fa Shen (Pronounced Fu Fa Shen). Their sole purpose in this role being to instruct the disciple on the path of spiritual cultivation; giving them advice, guidance and practical direction to ensure that the delicate internal transformations of the subtle body are nurtured and developed to a reliable standard in accord with the great Dao.

 

Through such an inheritance, the student could rest assured that the knowledge and wisdom received on the path of their cultivation, came from a recognised, approved and officiated spirit under the status of a guide, who had already, fully walked the path.

 

With that clarification, I hope that now you can understand the original meaning of the "Yin" in the phrase "Dao Yin". It is the "guidance" of a realised ascended teacher and not the "guiding" of energy in the meridians.

 

The many forms of Dao Yin Shu which have proliferated in Daoist culture today and are the basis for the teachings of most Daoist schools; have lost this ancient root and the privilege of a direct transmission in the old art of the Dao. As a result of this, if you wish to learn about Neidan and Dao Yin today, you must physically visit a teacher and have them transmit their experience to you in person, and worse yet, you might have to practice alone, only with the direction of books to aid you.

 

The downside to this is that we usually have to pay some form of monthly fee and we are always limited by the teacher's experience; unable ourselves to verify the authenticity of their knowledge until we have applied it to our own bodies and often yielded unfavourable results, sometimes detrimental to our health and well being. After all, they are also too, just learning.

 

Contrary to this, when someone inherits Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu through a spiritual initiation; their assigned Hu Fa Shen will be there to guide them indefinitely. You needn't travel to class daily or pay a monthly fee. Every disciple can connect to their Hu Fa Shen, anytime, anywhere and journey-on the path of their cultivation of the Dao.

 

This is an invitation to consciousness.

 

If you look inside yourself and you find room to bring new experiences into your life. I welcome you.

If you've always believed there is more to existence than this material reality and the pull towards the unknown has always sang to your soul. I welcome you.

If you wish to make the world a better place through your knowledge and elevate the consciousness of your fellow beings. I welcome you.

 

If you've always wanted to learn directly from a realised teacher, I extended to you this humble invitation to the exploration of spiritual consciousness in the tradition of Daoism and offer you to join us on this revelation of a most mysterious and illuminating dimension of phenomenal experience.

 

This can be a journey unlike any other and It is always my honour to be able to connect all adventuring souls to the treasure of the old arts.

 

The event will be held in London, UK on the 19-20th of October, 2019.

The Venue Address: 4th Floor Studios, 255-259 Commercial Road, Shadwell, London E1 2BT

 

It will be a two day weekend event including talks on Daoism, The History of Xiao Yao Pai, Physiognomy, Palmistry, Feng Shui, Practice Methods, open Q&A sessions and a spiritual initiation in the tradition of our school to inherit The Divine Guidance Art (Dao Yin Shu) and be paired with a Xian (ascended master) to guide you in our curriculum of spiritual cultivation.

 

The dates have been set in stone, so please feel free to organise your itinerary as I know many of you, as usual, will be travelling from countries afar.

 

The cost of the event is £200, which covers the weekend, and tickets can be purchased here: www.spiritualdaoism.com

Please feel free to contact me regarding any questions you have.

 

If you're interested in attending, send an email titled INITIATION 2019 to [email protected] before you purchase your ticket, so I can add you to the attendance list.

There is limited space, so please notify me of your intent on time.

 

Please help us reach others of similar interest by sharing this post on your FB wall, even if just for a while.

 

To learn more about the ancient art of Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu; feel free to read this article, which goes into more detail about our school, Dao Yin Shu, Spiritual Initiation and more: www.spiritualdaoism.com

 

You can read Testimonials from some initiated practitioners here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/xiaoyaopaitaoism/permalink/973319889399676/

 

Respectfully,

 

Xuan Daoji (Effiong Lolang)

Xiao Yao Pai - School of Spiritual Daoism

Facebook Group: www.spiritualtaoism.com

Webpage: www.taoism.education

Facebook Page: www.xiaoyaopai.eu

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#xiaoyaopai #taoism #xuandaoji #taoyinshu #meditation #laozi #spirituality #neidan #xian

#immortality #yoga #taoyin #qigong #taiji #wuji #tao #inspirational #daoyinshu #spiritualawakening

#spiritualquotes #love #insight #energyhealing #guidedmeditation

 

Dare I say, that an imperfect understanding of emptiness is a perfect understanding of emptiness : )
 

Quote

It depends on the the traits of different schools and philosophies. 

 

Most definitely so, and I'd say this is FROM a very NARROW, Daoist perspective and from a very NARROW Buddhist perspective.

Hi Ark,

 

The next initiation for UK and potentially US is due for 2019.

We're very active in Singapore, Malaysia, Philippines and Indonesia and have had over 10 initiations already between Malaysia and Singapore in the last year alone.

 

We're busy with a lot of different projects and have a large community to take care of, but that's not always apparent online, and it needn't be.

You can keep up to date with initiation announcements on our FB group.

 

Have a wonderful Sunday.

I'd like to share some photos from our recent initiation. We welcomed 66 new Dao Yu into Xiao Yao Pai.

People are always quite curious about what takes place in the first moments following each students pairing to their assigned Fu Fa Shen.

 

As you can tell from the photos, everyone's physical movements are usually specific to the disciple and prescribed by Fu Fa Shen after their initial diagnosis of your body's spirit, energy and physical conditions. Not all movements are visible to the eye, but all can be perceived by the senses of the practitioner, in particular those that are of a more subtle nature as constituted by refinements of the middle (qi) and core energies (shen).

 

The sensations involved in direct interaction with Fu Fa Shen, especially during physical movement, often resemble to the senses, a form of cloudy vaporous energy enveloping the limbs and drawing the body to move via a palpable magnetic force in a predetermined direction. Since our tradition allows us the benefit of retaining complete lucidity while intermingling with Fu Fa Shen, it means that we can always exercise the insuperableness of our providential right of free will - to move against the indication of the guiding energy and under the direction of our own mind. In the early days of practice investigating and playing with the volumetric organisation of this energetic envelope is a good way to build rapport and establish a "feeling" for the distinguishing qualities of energy which separate that of your body from that of your Fu Fa Shen. Other common sensations are perceptions of cold, usually experienced by most Dao Yu (initiated), firstly at the crown of the head (Bai Hui) after the initiation has taken place. It were as though a cold stream of water begins to pour into your head, mouth, ears and move through your body.

 

I've noticed that the stronger the determination of your Fu Fa Shen to interface with your low vibrational matter, the colder the sensation; to a point where it can almost feel freezing during the direct employment of the disciples physical faculties; such as when in the presence of others, usually close family or friends, Fu Fa Shen, wishes to impart certain advice or assistance to them; they might speak directly through your body by using all the organs involved in producing speech. The mouth and lips and tongue during such expressions feel quite cold, but localised temperature change is always temporary and the organs return to normal immediately thereafter.

 

After a completed session of Xian Tian Shen Gong (One of three of our tradition's practices), which usually includes choreographed movements of the physical body, respiratory mechanism, subtly energy and spirit - the end of the session is regularly marked by a heaviness in the arms. After prolonged sessions, I've felt like I had two bricks tied to my hands; such can be the sensation after Fu Fa Shen communicates the finality of a guided regimen. On the other hand, the completion of a Xian Tian Jing Zuo (guided seated meditation) session, is sometimes followed by a feeling of a body within your body expanding beyond the limit of your skin and dispersing back whence it came.

 

Xian Tian Qigong practice is probably the most entertaining for bystanders, should you choose to share your session with someone else; for Fu Fa Shen's conduction of your respiratory mechanism, often produces laughable and impolite noises, accompanied by exertions and releases of spontaneous bursts of energy in sharp snapping motions to correspond with the inhalations and exhalations. This is usually done to clear more pronounced blockages within the subtle energy network and it is common for cycles of the same configuration of physical movement and breath movement to be instructed repetitively, sometimes for months, until the energetic impedance of the meridian is neutralised and transformed. When all major blockages have thus beeng cleared, the movements start to normalise and become more homogeneous, until they finally stop; this cessation is an indication that the subtle body has been purified sufficiently and Xian Tian Jing Zuo (guided meditation) can be initiated; through the process of which we continuously funnel energy from Wuji directly into our body with Fu Fa Shen acting as a bridge to "step down" the frequency of the primordial vapour so that it does not damage the physical matter of our body. After our energetic system has developed sufficiently, the functional service of the bridge becomes an integrated attribute of our own personal energy, allowing us to directly absorb Wuji Qi into our system to nourish our spirit, independent of Fu Fa Shen. Many other properties are also acquired in a similar fashion, as a result of ongoing practice, and become adopted as part of our personal tool set, whenever our energy, wisdom and morality reach the prerequisite sufficiency demanded of the respective skill and the responsibility which follows it.

 

Happy Holidays

Xuan Daoji

 

Welcome back, Thelearner. Thank you for your service. 

Oh my, look who who couldn't resist to come back again, what a surprise.

 

Anyway.... 

I'd like to extend a warm welcome to the new Dao Yu, recently initiated in September 2017, in Kuala Lumpur - and share some photos.

 

It is the first event we've ever held in Malaysia since our school went public and began sharing Xiantian Dao Yin Shu openly.

 

We had 50 new initiates formally accepted into the heavenly register and officially granted Hu Fa Shen under Xiao Yao Pai, by authority of Tai Shang Lao Jun. They can now all go home, invite their Hu Fa Shen and practice in the leisure of their own homes.

 

As usual the initiation took place over a period of two days and was held in the breathtaking Chin Swee Temple.

Almost all of the 50 initiates were able to establish a strong connection with their new teachers and began to interact with them on the first day, while others in the days that followed.

People often ask, why is it that unlike many other schools of Daoism, Xiao Yao Pai does not offer a lineage chart?

 

Regards,

Xuan Daoji

 

54 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

Bad mouth is what you do, I try to stick to facts and explain myself factually and logically, showing where there is deep misguidance and misunderstanding. That is not slander nor bad mouthing it is looking at what is going on based on what I have been taught and what I have experienced while I was in Malaysia of other Daoist spiritual systems and the common theme that runs through such practices in every culture that practices spiritual arts. Your school does not tick many boxes according to research and tradition throughout the world and is more like one of these mixed up Indian cults where a person or people such as you, canvas forums to gain more members and lets face it that's what you are doing here, you rarely make any contribution to any other part of this forum. You say your teacher is Tai Sung, yet you have never appeared at his teachings section or commented. Tai Sung is of course only known for his monumental work. Tai Sung is my teacher so I am there all the time. Why aren't you?

 

James Randy has exposed so many frauds, do you think he is slanderous? He just uses facts and his vast experience to expose these people. So do I, that's not slander, you need to grasp a better use of English. My school do not advertise, I rarely put down anything about the school and because I no longer live in Malaysia I have no contact with the rest of all the temples and its people. There is no hierarchy, any one can go into a temple and beg the Immortal master to teach them and that is the case for all the temples of any Immortals. If you can find fault with anything that I practice then it is your prerogative to say so, it is not slander, you would be expressing an opinion whether educated or not, which is what I have done. But you have taken exception to that because what I have said had shown some very big questions about what you do. I don't canvas on TDB's for students, or have a Facebook page and like my teacher says in his philosophy "followers of the Dao don't make a show". I just try and help guide people in a way that will be genuine that will make some sense to them; there are enough lost souls in this world without creating more.

 

What I meant by I don't understand you, is that anyone who is taught by Immortals would not act and say the things that you did. I don't know you from Adam so I have not commented on you as a person only on what you have been saying and what you have shown. Your likes and dislikes are of no concern of mine and are transient.

But I know that;

The Immortals don't like people who show a snide side to them, who will actively torture and bait someone and bad mouth them and then say, but remember you've got to keep your word and not defend yourself and if you do, look you've broken your word, ha ha he he.

 

 Cunning that is and bad hearted behaviour.

 

That's very telling and this would not come from someone who is taught by Immortals.

 

 

It may not be legally slanderous, SFH, but it sure as hell is libellous defamation - and let me remind you that when you say things to and officially damage a person or an organisation's reputation, if you can't offer objective evidence to substantiate your accusations, you leave yourself wide open for a defamation lawsuit.

 

I would probably take a little more care when making damaging defamatory claims against an organisation, when you don't have any evidence that would stand in court.

 

Finally, for the nth time; I'm not interested in you or your life, so you can stop coming back here and telling me about yourself and what you do. I really don't honestly care.

You already made a separate thread specifically aimed at defaming our school, yet you still come here to do the very same, because I don't engage with you there. You love attention, pure and simple - if that wasn't the case, you would have accepted my invitation for a meeting by now to come and test your claims, which I've said I will record for evidence; or by now, you would have provided objective evidence to support your claim that the head of our school isn't Tai Shang Lao Jun.

 

You have failed to do both.

 

If I go through all your posts on this thread and make a list of all the damaging claims you've made against us, without providing any evidence, I think you're going to realise just how far you've dug yourself in, Sir.

22 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

Effilang I can't understand you, you write all this stuff in answer to me and yet you bait me and poke fun and nastiness and this has been your way all along. 

 

 

Ok, let me try to help you understand me, in very basic terms;

 

1. I don't like people who make accusations without offering objective proof.

2. I don't like people who act as if they are entitled to respect, recognition and authority and sit on a high horse.

3. I don't like people who ceaselessly try to force their own experiences and beliefs onto others, while negating others' value and authenticity.

4. I don't like people who don't keep their word, as in your case, you keep coming back to this thread to repeat the same thing over and over, after saying you won't.

 

You tick all those boxes for me.

 

If I poke fun and nastiness, it is because you created those nasty things that I am poking at, out of your own personal desire to slander myself and my school, so you only have yourself to thank for that.

 

In all our exchanges, I have never once attacked your beliefs, your experiences or your methods, even when you claim to study under Tai Shang Lao Jun.

 

Have you ever wondered why that is? Have you ever wondered why in all this time that you've slandered and tried to bad mouth myself and my school that I've never once retaliated in a similar fashion and attacked your school or your experiences or claims?

 

Let's leave it a mystery. It's a lot more interesting that way : )

In terms of respect; I give it where it is shown.
You have not shown it to me, so do not expect it in return.

On 09/09/2017 at 1:31 PM, flowing hands said:

Immortals are beyond 'showy' things and would not make such an exhibition. The basis of their principles are that of humbleness and definitely not making a show. The Chan hand is not part of the Daoist remit. I have never been taught this, even though one of my masters is a Buddha (Chi Tien Da Shen). Over the thirty five years of teaching me many styles of martial art, this has never occurred even in one style that came from Shaolin that he taught me. The Chan hand is relatively a new hand development.

 

Ah... but Effilang has chosen not to value my communication or my opinion, by dissolving any posts that were incriminating to his end. It was he who decided of his own free will to delete a pm unread, that I sent him and banning any communication from me. I said in this pm that I would not post anymore on his thread. But he deliberately devalued the communication between us, so he left me with no choice, but to continue till my point was made and recognised.

 

I, as the head of my sect,  have not the slightest interest in Effilang or his school, or what he and his school wish to believe and practice, it is up to them. But when my teacher tells me that he has nothing to do with this school and like many, it is only in name, I have the duty to defend my teachers good name and reputation. He is one of the highest Immortals in the Heavens and he just can't be ordered around and simply be made to take on new students because he is told to, like some dumb servant. That is simply senseless  and against thousands of years of tried and tested traditional training and teaching. No human Sifu worth their weight would do so, so why would an Immortal of such great standing act like a dumb idiot?

 

So this is my last words on the subject.

 

In reality, every Shen Xian has their own personality; just like we have different characters as human. We are all unique. You will not lose your personality through spiritual cultivation; this is something most people are often concerned about when they begin practice. Your emotions will not disappear, neither will your ability to feel and express them. What happens as a result of good practice, briefly put, is that our emotions stop being in control of us, while simultaneously; powerful emotions like anger, jealousy and hatred are progressively dissolved through the accumulation of wisdom, compassion and the cultivation of self responsibility and karmic intelligence. All these processes and more, take place as a product of internal cultivation.

 

The immortals we work with in Xiao Yao Pai, are not beyond everything; on the contrary, they have cultivated to the point where they are everything, or nothing, depending on what they wish to experience. Therefore in our tradition, you will find that our Hu Fa Shen, can be funny and humorous, stern and strict, they experience joy and love - and can even be martially assertive if we are under attack.

 

Our school is called "Xiao Yao", because this is the primary characteristic that is expressed by those whom have been practising for some time. Every Dao Yu (initiated) becomes more "Xiao Yao" as their practice progresses. If you can connect to the spiritual head of our school; Tai Shang Lao Jun, the first thing you will feel is his cheerful, easy going, carefree and happy energy; it almost feels like a warm and innocent childlike joy.

 

One of my teachers, Immortal Jiu Tian Xuan Niu, often dances gracefully during my practice sessions with her; her beautiful dancing might also be considered "showy", but that would only be because they fail to understand the energy of the "Xiao Yao" concept that permeates the entire heritage of our tradition.

 

If an immortal from our school therefore wanted to dance, or perform a flashy form, make jokes, demonstrate compassion, humour, distaste or even be grumpy; they can : )

 

The level that our teachers are at, allows them to be or express whatever they wish. Why? Because they have transcended notions of showyness and exhibitionism; and overcome the human mindset that would have them worry about how others perceive their actions when they chose to act. No, when our teachers want to express something, they do it.

The ability to express one's self in such a way, is also a type of power. Perhaps not the sort of power most people look for, but one that we hold in high regard in our school; it is the manifest power of the concept of "Xiao Yao", acquired by the transcendence of the mundane mind, that is responsible for inhibiting the unabridged expression of the limitless divine "wholy" spirit; Yuan Shen.

 

I can confidently say, that if anyone works with a spirit which worries about how they will be perceived or criticised, especially by the likes of a human; is dealing with spirits that have not yet grown into the mind of the Dao or acquired the wisdom of non-dualistic existence. Be weary of such teachers for they are likely with you entirely out of personal interests.

 

Furthermore, like Mudfoot mentioned, I specifically made a request to my Hu Fa Shen, Jin Xiao Fa, to move me more during that session in a way that was, yes, more showy; as the video was created as a demonstration of the level of interactivity and physicality achievable through a connection to an Immortal while practising Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu.

 

What a lot of people don't know is that one of my primary objectives here in the West, is the marriage of Spiritual Cultivation with Natural Sciences.

My aim in this lifetime and very much so in the next decade, is to create a bridge between the two fields and usher in a new era of possibilities in the investigation and examination of non-physical and multidimensional energetic phenomena, currently undetectable by modern day instruments.

 

This is one of the first times in our history that, a method for the direct experience and empirical observation of spiritual phenomena has become available, and I very much intend to make certain that this opportunity will become an integral part of scientific endeavours in the fields of quantum physics, ontological research, spiritual intelligence, natural sciences, and an integral part in the collective evolution of humanity.

 

We are making great progress already. I don't have the words to explain to you what it feels like to meet devout atheists, passionate monotheistic followers, and modern day graduates in the fields of Physics, Psychology, Medicine, Engineering and Biology - and then have the pleasure of watching them connect to one of our school's Shen Xian and experience the rewiring of their belief systems in real-time as their body and energy begins to be moved and guided by their Hu Fa Shen. It's life and belief altering.

 

We are literally, right now, working to and promoting the spiritual evolution of human kind through a reproducible, experience-based tool, that is Xiantian Dao Yin Shu - and from it generating wide spread consensus experiences that can be corroborated by large groups of individuals, regardless of association, creed, belief system and so forth.

 

Then I come here, to this thread, and I see some people beating their chests and professing their academic superiority, claiming exclusivity and entitlement and making accusations and allegations without offering any proof - and honestly guys, I just fucking take a deep breath and sigh.

 

As I've always said, to each their own, BUT don't come here trying to push your agenda and your experiences on me; I do not accept them, I have made that clear numerous times, but despite that, unlike you, I do not visit other people's threads to make accusations and relentlessly attempt to hammer in my own experiences. If you have your own views and experiences, keep them, they are yours. Mine are different and I do not agree with yours, and since you fail to provide any objective proof of your statements during every one of your tantrums; I will always just consider you a troll with an inability to control himself. And like I told you, a long, long, long, long time ago, SFH. I'm genuinely not interested in you or what you have to say anymore and particularly not in the way you say it. Yeah, that also means don't send me PM's and harass me.

 

Now, and this wasn't something I was going to reply to, because I just figured I would let you ferment in your ignorance, but alas, there's one thing I hate more than ignorance and it's misinforming the masses, knowingly or unknowingly - so I'm going to answer your question about what you refer to as "One Finger Zen Palm".

 

In the years that I've had the displeasure of communicating with you, I've noticed a trend; your mind is very much tied up in concepts; that is, superficial names, ideas and symbols that correspond to unified energetic laws of nature that are independent of human conceptualisation. So for the sake of education, let's do a simple exercise in mental purgation, like I often have to do with new candidates. Let's examine the following concept; "One Finger Zen Palm":

 

The origin of the concept may or may not be attributed to a certain group of people ie Buddhists - that is still a matter of debate; although we do know they certainly popularised it.

 

Now, let's remove the concept and it's corresponding association to Zen. 

What are we left with? - We are left with, "One Finger Palm".

 

Can "One Finger Palm" still carry out it's underlying energetic purpose if it's not "Zen" anymore? - It sure can.

 

Why? - Because the foundational basis for the movement and interplay of our body's internal energy is not dictated by mental concepts. Yes, mental concepts can affect our energy and vice-versa, but they are not responsible for the basic blueprint that determines how certain qualities and types of energy move in the body and through which mediums they express themselves. What dictates that is a product of natural evolution.

 

What is the underlying purpose of "One Finger Palm" in human cultivation: the underlying purpose of "One Finger Palm" is to stimulate, focus, energise and tonify our body's energy through the employment of finger and palm configurations that form a hand seal.

 

A hand seal or mudra can be employed by any human being to modify the energy within their body's electromagnetic channel network and they have been in use by the Taoist clans and schools, both public and private - for a very long time. It doesn't matter what your race is or what belief you subscribe to, or if you're Zen, Taoist, Christian or Muslim. Those are man made concepts, that come after the energetic formation of the viscera and energetic architecture of the body, at a time when the conceptual mind has no power to create any of these dualistic notions you speak of.

 

In energy work to do with the human body, as well as in, would you know it; Taoism - the creases on the fingers can be activated by touching them with the thumb or bending the fingers which directly affect the corresponding energetic fields in the body. Similarly extending particular fingers will, among other things, stimulate the energy in the corresponding meridian and organ to manifest an intended effect.

 

It doesn't matter what concepts you have in your head, that prevent you from seeing things from a greater perspective beyond your own experiences, when it comes to the energetic processes of the body, no one school or people have exclusivity, not you, not Taoism, not Buddhism. This is a human practice.

 

Someone who claims to have been practising for 35 years, should know this stuff. It is elementary esoteric Taoism.

 

The level at which our Hu Fa Shen, are allows them to operate beyond these restricting concepts, which again seem to be the root of most of your limiting and self defeating beliefs.

 

When they interact with a Dao Yu (initiated) during the course of a Liangong (cultivation practice); they don't look at you as a Buddhist, or a Christian, or a Muslim or a Taoist; they go deeper and interface directly with the basal energy of the student in order to bring about internal change - and when necessary for those possessing a mind that has been made rigid and heavy by emotions and concepts; they either use lessons throughout the day to target specific limiting beliefs and refine them in order to bring about wisdom, or occasionally, directly interact with the sense based energy cluster to release the negative concepts and bring about a state of naturalness and tranquility.

 

I really wish onto you that you will learn to look beyond the well of your own experiences to realise that there is an endless sea around you.

Perhaps even your sense of exclusivity, entitlement and authority may be a test on your path.

 

Good luck to you with that work - and as I have said before, If you ever want to put your money where your mouth is, I invite you to one of our initiations, where you can test your power and your beliefs against ours. I will be happy to record it and post it on here for free. Or, you know, you can just continue with your MO here and make unsubstantiated claims and accusations without ever providing any credible or verifiable objective proof. If you choose to the the latter, please make a thread elsewhere and litter it with as much of your sentiment as fills your heart, but kindly stop coming on my thread and regurgitating the same stuff over and over again. You're a grown man, have some dignity..

Oh, wait, you did make that thread already, if I recall. I guess nobody was paying you attention there.

 

On 09/09/2017 at 1:31 PM, flowing hands said:

So this is my last words on the subject.

 

I've heard that before, several times actually, but you keep coming back.

Let's see if you're a man of your word and actually have the dignity to follow through this time.

 

PS: For the record, If anyone wants to ask me anything about Xiao Yao Pai, you can ask me here, no need to PM me.

SFH. Give it a rest if you have any dignity at all.

 

For the nth time, I'm genuinely not interested in your propaganda.

 

If you want to put your money where your mouth is,  and prove to everyone here that we are a fake, then I invite you to our next initiation where you can conduct your investigation and if you like, even test your power against ours - if it pleases you. I have good HD digital recording equipment and will be happy to document the whole thing to present it here as evidence for public viewing.

 

If you give me ample time, I will even fundraise your ticket and or visa fees to accommodate you to carry out an official investigation.

Until you accept that invitation and demonstrate a willingness to backup your empty talk; you're just a forum troll to me with zero integrity.

 

Have a pleasant evening.

13 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

No not at all fella, you basically have been immoral, you deleted my posts.

 

No I haven't. I was within my right to delete your posts and the administration of the website supported me in my actions. You are wilfully being ignorant to serve your false narratives. I'm sorry that you're butthurt, but If you have or had a problem with it, which apparently you still do, you can discuss it with them.

 

Quote

because I showed that what you were doing could not be from the source that you claim and then I discover that you are boasting about the fact that I showed you up and your mixed bag of shen gong, with Buddhist hands and other techniques that were not even the slightest bit Daoist and certainly an originator like Tai Sung would not use these, as these were well after his time and then say that I took a 1970's swing at you and failed

 

This is all very nice, but anyone with half a brain who reads my posts above and follows the thread you started and my reply to it, can make up their own minds.

 

Quote

I'm afraid it is you who has failed, you have more importantly failed to impress me the student of Tai Sung Lao Jun who has received his teachings for over thirty five years. I know what he teaches and how he teaches and what his system is and it is not some mixed bag of tricks that has been borrowed from other religions and other practices.

 

More importantly, LOL?!

Come down from your high horse, Sir. - I have no interest in you, beyond protecting the reputation of my school.

 

Quote

Either take it or shut up whinging.

 

That is abusive. No, I will not accept your experiences as law and "shutup".

You're just going to have to learn to live with that.

 

Toodles.

On 2017-8-12 at 1:30 PM, flowing hands said:

I have swung but you have no solid answers.

 

FlowingHands, didn't you declare in former posts here that you were not coming back to this thread, several times? - Yet you are here again, trolling, misleading others and trying to set up shop here again with a platform to launch attacks and make baseless and unsubstantiated accusations?

 

You can't stop yourself can you?

 

For someone who proclaims to be so well versed in Daoism, you really lack restraint and morals.

If I wasn't sure that you were a troll before, I'm convinced of it now through your last post - more than ever.

 

Here is why:

You started an independent thread with the purpose of making libellous pronouncements against the origins of our school and attempted to substantiate the accusation that our tradition is a result of Mao's cultural revolution, placing us under the umbrella of many unauthentic arts. You fell flat on your face with your arguments; yet you are here now saying that, I had no solid answers? - Sorry, SFH - I only had the truth.

 

As I can see from what is left of your pontificated thread, you've conveniently deleted most of your posts; yet you talk to me about solidity?

And let me quote you further from your own and very same thread, after I refuted your accusations in a post on this thread which you can read here:

 

Quote

Posted November 18, 2016 by FlowingHands

I might have misread Xia Yao Pai site as it was not coming up full screen, but what I could gleen was that it was after the CR that the teacher decided to teach, but it did not verify whether he came from China or was in Indonesia before this. So I could be wrong about this. I am sure Effilang could put me right.

Honestly fella, you're starting to look desperate, have some dignity.

Haven't we had enough of this admins?

 

9 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

Any news of an initiation in the UK this year?

 

Hi Vajra, 

 

We're focusing a little more on Asia this year (Singapore, Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia),  but I'm going to start making plans for 2018 UK/US soon. 

 

I always make sure to give minimum 3-6 months notice. I'll post any relevant announcements here FYI. 

 

Regards,

Xuan

 

 

Are yin and yang real?

 

Only when we think about it : )

The cultivation of jing is said to bring a practitioner to a state where there are no more dreams.

 

***No more bad dreams or nightmares as the Yin aspects have been refined completely, but still nice dreams : )

You can sense it as practice progresses. The dreams become more and more pleasant and more and more lucid.

Please don't hesitate to ask again if you have some questions unanswered. Sometimes spam comes from some members and valuable messages may be lost inside.

 

1) About "showing" - please see my answer above.

2) However there are demonstartions from high-level Brothers and Teachers but each demonstration comes only after you reache certain stage.

3) So you say in Yin-Yang world everything comes to its end. I would say differently: the "end" violates Yin-Yang law. 

4) However becomming immortal means a person overcomes Yin-Yang law, see http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42984-yangshen-perspectives-in-traditional-schools/

5) Hair can become black because of: hair dye, some kind of temporary medical therapy... or going back to youth. Please don't forget hair is only a sign of the result, not the result itself.

 

And finally to your main question - how can xiantian and houtian be connected? Easily: a human spread yuanqi to live and do deeds in the outer world. So the connection exists.

In Alchemy we use the reversed process to collect back yuanqi and become Xian (immortal).

 

Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

 

Thanks, AAK, but you again didn't answer my main question. Here is some background.

 

 

Wuliu Pai, as other schools, claim to develop physical immortality and AAK recently stated that the physical body which is houtian jing, qi and shen is converted to Yang Shen; essentially going against what a lot of the Daoist literature claims; in that the postnatal cannot generate the prenatal.

 

So I'd like to ask a very fundamental question and simple question once again, not only to Wuliu Pai, but to all schools who claim that the impermanent physical body can be absorbed into and converted to Yang Shen, so that there is no longer a dying body present, but only the undying immortal body - or that the physical body can be made to last forever (immortality).

 

AAK claimed that they age in reverse and get younger instead of older, never get sick and escape death.

 

Wuliu Pai from my understanding is around 500 years old, again, please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not familiar with your history. In this time, could we safely assume that you may have had at least 250 students, on the basis of around a 100 years of life with 50 students per century? - Maybe you have more students, maybe less. I am just using this as a crutch to illustrate my point.

 

And here is my question:

 

- If physical immortality is a part of your tradition, and you claim you get younger and escape death, can you direct us to any one of your masters or their masters who are still alive today and were not buried or cremated, as a testament to this achievement?

 

In relation to your other statements. I'll go by the numbers and share my ideas:

 

1. I'll have a look at that.

 

2. That's very convenient wouldn't you say? This way only people from inside your school can confirm it, its very biased.

 

3. Yes, naturally it's the nature of Yin and Yang, and it is evident in the Taijitu. I'm sure you already know this, but for the sake of making my point I'll say it. When Yang reaches its height Yin is born and vice versa. All things that are products of Taiji and the 5 elements are thus impermanent. They all naturally succumb to aging, death and decay; and their post-natal physical energy simple recycles itself based on the law of conservation of energy. The higher aspects of the Yuan Shen are not a Taiji energy and this is what we cultivate in Neidan. So in terms of the temporary partnership of Taiji (physical body) and Wuji aspects (immaterial spirit); yes there is the death of that which was the composite human being. Independently of each other, the Taiji energy is recycled continuously while being transformed into other forms of energy, while the Wuji aspects continue in their own respect. From such a perspective nothing ever really dies, but I'm not talking about that when I refer to physical immortality; rather I'm talking about a human being as one integrated and fully functioning unit. That is the idea of physical immortality. So to say that THAT ages, dies and decays, is certainly not a violation of Taiji, but evidence of its law which is reflected in the life cycle of every being born in Taiji through a natural birth.

 

4. It is not a persons physical body that overcomes Yin and Yang, but a person's cultivated immaterial body and soul. Again if you do not subscribe to this, then please let us know which one of your masters wasn't buried or cremated. That will be evidence enough I think. Otherwise we have to assume this is simply something you talk about in your school, but nobody has ever achieved in the last 500 years?

 

5. I didn't forget, that's what I also said a few posts back : )

Happy New Year to everyone! 

 

May the upcoming year of the Fire Rooster, galantly grace your goals and ambitions

and bring you much luck, health, prosperity and love. Tai Shang Bao Yu! : )

 

 

It is not difficult to practise soul awakening method; one only has to find a clean and bright place. He/She will need to sit with his/her back straight on a chair and with both hands in clasping/prayer position.

 

We can practise XTDYS anywhere, anytime. The place does not matter.

 

After that one only needs to pray for his/her patron gods/goddesses to help. It is also advisable to do a silent rhythm chant such as “o-mi-to-fo” etc. continuously as if in meditation for an hour or so.

 

We don't chant in our school. That triggers the Shi Shen.

This is counterproductive to XTDYS.

 

Some people will feel his/her hands shaking at first and gradually dance or perform martial arts stunts.

Proponents say the patron spirits are guiding the practitioners but I would not want to comment.

 

I wouldn't want to comment either : )

 

·         A healthier body and mind

·         Obtain psychic powers

·         Foundation for other higher practices

 

We don't have another practice other than XTDYS.

 

The purpose of soul awakening exercise is to achieve self mastery on one’s soul. However, if one’s mind is not strong and other external spirits took control, then he/she may become a spirit medium instead. Once this situation happens, this person will never be able to spirits from possessing his/her body.

 

Not possible in our system. I've explained why on many occasions before and in extensive detail.

Please search through my posts.

 

This is for now, I have some more opinions and highly interesting findings related to origin of the school its practice and why they belive it is superior to Nei Dan, which I am to post another time.

 

I've never said that Xiantian Neidan is superior. It is however different.

 

How about you maybe stop with the opinions and trying to defame and smear our name and actually present some facts, instead of just beliefs?

 

I hope that XYP members are not to get me wrong because I personaly dont have anything against XYP but contrary I am interested in their method which maybe I am to try some day.

 

Of course I am getting you WRONG, everything you pretty much said IS, WRONG in relation to our school, so how about stop with the presumptions until you actually have some verifiable experience?

 

Either you are an official member of our school and have been educated properly or you are not part of our school and have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to our art. It can't be both....

 

I don't understand the mentality of people who have not experienced something, talking about it as if they have. Can someone explain the logic?

So how is to fuse Yin Shen with Yuan Jing and Yuan Qi precisly if you neglect to replenish it?

 

Maybe have a read of these:

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42697-yuxianpai-wuliupai-tradition-doctrine/?p=725813

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42854-about-necessity-of-having-a-true-teacher/?p=727871

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42854-about-necessity-of-having-a-true-teacher/?p=727858

 

XYP work on Shen and from Shen go in natural wordly way to Qi and Jing,and we all know what classic say that true way is reversal and not wordly way of manifestation.

 

Buddy, for someone who is relying solely on supposition here, I wouldn't speak so matter of factly.

Let me put you straight.

 

You say you have read all I've written, but you didn't pay much attention.

 

When we trigger our Yuan Shen, we begin to move into Wuji, but the primordial Qi which Hu Fa Shen bridges to us also steps down to nourish our Qi and Jing. It all happens simultaneously.

 

Working on Shen only with no Yuan Qi to fuse you made just Yin Shen. Yang Shen is made from yang and this yang come from Ming Gong so again contradiction by western members interpretation and I belive Indonesian Masters dont claim that Dao Yin Shu is Xian Tian, nor that XYP work Nei Dan nor that it form Yang Shen. 

 

You believe, you believe, you believe.... where is the actual proof?

We develop both Ming and Xing in XTDYS and Yang Shen. Please read up on my posts, I'm too lazy to repeat myself.

 

Please tell me who these Indonesian masters are so that I can have a word with them...

 

Maybe we can see original books of the school and  how they explain its doctrine?

 

We don't have a doctrine or dogma. Anything that is written in a book is just an opinion to us until we can prove it ourselves.

We carry out this investigation and motion towards proof by practising directly with different Hu Fa Shen and learning from them.

 

If you believe so STRONGLY in what another man wrote in a book several thousand years ago, that you use it as a yard stick for everything, how will you ever be able to exercise discretion in the presence of a Xian? 

 

You will fail immediately, because you put these figures on a pedestal.

 

Our Hu Fa Shen are always testing us and pushing us to cultivate our wisdom. You have to challenge Hu Fa Shen and learn and not simply take the information they give us as true, because they are Xian. This is antithetical to our ethos which emphasises the development of Wu.

 

We must develop our OWN wisdom and not follow the wisdom of others, whether they are dead or alive or immortal.

 

More about our relationship to HFS:

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42456-xiao-yao-pai-xiantian-dao-yin-shu-official-thread/?p=719356

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42456-xiao-yao-pai-xiantian-dao-yin-shu-official-thread/?p=719251

 

Because XYP is manifested in the world in 1970, this time is interesting because in that time also we see Mo Pai who also have similar practices and it also dont show lineage nor history and it is on Indonesia to. What I find interesting is that such practices are more close to Tenaga Dalam (Tridaya) from Indonesia to which is added Daoist history of origin. In modern Indonesia mostly Muslims work Ilmu Khodan and Tenaga Dalam (Tridaya).

 

Well you'll be happy to know that our Tao Yu are Daoists by practice and not Muslims.

Our initiation is similar to a baptism in Christianity if you will, so one officially becomes a Daoist under Taishang Laojun after they have been initiated. 

 

And a human body getting possessed by a pigs spirit? Really?

The Hun and Po configuration of an animal and that of a human are different.

The human spirit has additional aspects which that of an animal lacks that would prevent such a possession...

 

Further, Tridaya has nothing to do with Xiao Yao Pai.

 

Here's is a little about possessions, spirits, Yang Shen and all that.

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42657-why-do-you-say-school/?p=723714

 

A member called FlowingHands already tried to take a swing at us with the 1970s angle and failed:

Here is more on that: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42512-xiao-yao-pai-and-other-arts-from-china/

 

My reply to those claims here: 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42456-xiao-yao-pai-xiantian-dao-yin-shu-official-thread/?p=720068

 

To better explain how it is similar here I am to post one ritual which I think is pretty similar to XYP initiation ceremony:

 

Ok, lets have a look at these "similarities".

 

There are many theories concerning this art, the gist of it is that when we are alive; our soul are imprisoned within the body. Our soul could be awaken and released from our body through prayer and the help of higher spiritual forces. Otherwise, this would be quite impossible when a person is still alive.

 

In XYP we don't consider the soul to a be a prisoner of the body. This is a preposterous notion to us.

The soul is already awake and it cannot simply be released after it is as you say "awakened", it first needs a body; Yang Shen with which to become one; a body that can exist in Wuji.

 

So this has nothing to do with our school.

 

Prerequisites

 

·         One must be healthy.

·         One must be kind hearted.

·         One must be knowledgeable: not follow things blindly.

·         One must not be too engrossed in supernatural things.

·         One must be persistent, calm, fair and doing thing step wise.

 

We do not have such pre-requisites. One must simply be.

XYP dont provide its history and lineage which is important. They say this is not important because they are Celestial lineage. Ahhh all are Celestial even Tian Shi Pai, Shang Qing Pai and Zhong Lu Pai....and many others who all give detailed lineage.

 

Important to who?

How come our initiated students are practising, communicating with their Hu Fa Shen and making progress if it's important?

 

It's only important to those to whom it is important. To us it's not : )

We don't rely on the past, we rely on what we can do right now in the present and for that we have Xiantian Daoyin Shu and our initiation.

 

Those that cannot prove their art in the present, fall back on the words of the dead masters from the past to legitimate themselves...

 

Back in the day when most of the spiritual schools were under secrecy, students had to take an oath not to reveal the names of their masters. It was common for students under the same master to not know one another. So, we have no value in our tradition on finding out who was whose master. We are only concerned with whether the person we are learning from NOW, can actually help us in our progress. One more reason this matters even less, is that our education is received from our assigned Hu Fa Shen and not a human teacher.

 

My Hu Fa Shen is Jin Xiao Fa.

Now that you know, how does it help you? Can you find him?

 

Every school has it's way, we have ours.

We do not force anyone to learn from us. Those that are interested come and learn and benefit. That's it.

 

I'm actually only concerned with those that already walk through the door.

The other ones take too much of my time : )

 

XYP have Grand Master and other Master initiators so this are real people who initiate and this mean lineage, but they prefere to forgett this and say important is teacher and thus Hu Fa Shen who changed name because before it was called Fu Fak Shen.

 

The person who initiates you is not the one who teaches you.

So your teacher is your assigned Shen Xian or Tian Xian.

You can become initiated, then never meet your initiator again, you will progress just as well.

 

Fu Fak Shen IS Hu Fa Shen IS Fu Fa Shen.... SIGH*

You're grasping at straws buddy...

 

Regarding Fu Fak Shen I dont belive it is Yang Shen, beacuse this means that there are some 140.000 + Xians who teach. Do you think it is posible?

 

Of course it's possible. It is not only possible, it is that way, however you're misinformed here yet again.

Our Hu Fa Shen are Yang Shen, which means they can multiply their bodies infinitely.

 

One Hu Fa Shen can have countless students. It is the nature of Yang Shen.

 

I cant be sure that it is even Yin Shen, but others told me this can be case, which is more probable.

 

You won't know till you find out for yourself.

 

I have my personal opinion and this is that on initiation Master activate Shen......precisly Yuan Shen of student and start to move Yuan Qi which we see as movements in Shen Gong.

 

Wrong, but again you won't know it till you experience it.

If you ever get initiated, when you sit down and start having a conversation with your Hu Fa Shen, you can revise your reply.

 

He/She is an independent conscious being and not you. They have a name, a history, a personality and a life and every Hu Fa Shen and Xian is different.

 

Dao Yin Shu and Yang Sheng are good and Nei Dan for sure have elements of it when it is formed in late VIII century, but Dao Yin Shu and Yang Sheng are Hout Tian and not Xian Tian.

 

Dao Yin Shu that has lost the root of Divine Guidance from the Xian is Houtian.

Dao Yin Shu that has retained the root of Divine Guidance from the Xian is Xiantian.

 

There is a fundamental difference in the source of the energy used to trigger and maintain cultivation and the level of the teacher.

 

In one system the energy is coarse, in the other it is fine. 

In one system the teacher is an unrealised human, in the other it is a realised Xian.

 

Hence why we have XTDYS and HTDYS.

 

I know XYP now (but not before few years) mentioned that DYS is Xian Tian which for me is not true. How some can prove it?

 

At initiation, the disciple is assigned to their Hu Fa Shen, then all questions are automatically answered.

Once your teacher connects to you, begins moving you and communicating with you and you can feel their presence and touch, then questions of whether it's Yang Shen or not simply disappear.

 

Just say it is Xian Tian have no value, vecause Yuan states cant be percepted at all.

Also Dao Yin Shu is just basic and start, and cant be the  only practice nor it can made Yang Shen. 

I believe there must be other practices in higher degrees of XYP which can produce possibly Yang Shen.Is there such practice?

 

That's why we don't just say anything in XYP, we prove it through initiation, by backing up our words and connecting the student to a Xian from our school. We're not much for belief...

 

Our whole practise is called, Xiantian Dao Yin Shu. It consists of:

 

Xian Tian Shen Gong

Xian Tian Qi Gong

Xian Tian Jing Zuo

 

That's it. There are no higher practises : )

 

Problem is started when western students of XYP try to explain system with Nei Dan terms, but I know that XYP dont teach Nei Dan nor they replenish Jing and Qi. 

 

We teach the cultivation of Yang Shen, most people would call that Nei Dan or Jin Dan. You can call it anything you like. Butterfly Unicorn Immortal Body Art, if you want to. The name doesn't matter, only the effect.

 

We don't really actively do too much in XTDYS, most of our practice is Wuwei, so Shen, Qi and Jing all take care of themselves. It's the difference between XT and HT Xiulian. One is very Youwei for along time, while the other is very Wuwei from the start, but we manifest all the same results and others.

I'll try to keep it short.

 

I read complete tread about Xiao Yao Pai and in the past other treads related to it.

It is no doubt that XYP is interesting school and have interesting methods.

 

Maybe : )

 

Also I have long personal conversations with western students of XYP and Indonesian members and Masters of XYP.

 

Names?

 

After few years I have some picture of it and made my personal research.There are some questions and contraversies which rise I think because of interpretations that are given from western students and their wish to present XYP in the best light and not maybe in clear picture. 

 

It depends very much on who you speak to. Being initiated into XYP, doesn't make you an expert on XYP. That is why we have only a select few who represent us officially and internationally.

 

I see that terminology used evolved by time to.

 

The world keeps turning.

 

First I didn't find clues that XYP is part of Zheng Yi. On Long Hu Shan and Taiwan seat of Zheng Yi they dont know for XYP. 

 

It's strange then how they know us... If legitimation is your goal, then try a little harder.

 

I've mentioned this before about Zhengyi. We are now only affiliated with Zhengyi, that is to say we are not part of Zhengyi on paper anymore, because we chose to maintain our autonomy and govern how we spread our teachings, free from the overshadowing influence and long-term goals of particular national bodies. Many schools who were a part of Zhengyi before higher governing bodies got involved have opted for this status as a means to retain control over their traditions.

 

Even grade structure and titles of XYP is not the same.

 

Correct. Our is:

 

0: Dao Yu (道友)

Here HFS treats us like primary or elementary school students.

If we come across a steep ravine, HFS will help us by holding us up and making sure we don't get hurt.

 

1: Dao Shi (道仕)

Here HFS treats us like secondary school students.

If we come across a steep ravine, HFS will caution us, but we must carry ourselves and jump of our own accord if necessary

 

2: Dao Zhang (道张) - 2a, 2b, 2c.

Here HFS treats us like university students and we already have significant independence and maturity.

If we come across a steep ravine, we are expected to be able to see it ourselves and take the necessary actions.

At this level even if we fall, HFS just observes us and waits for us to take charge and get up.

 

3. Dao Zun (道尊)

Here HFS treats us like graduates from the university of life.

A this point, we are completely independent and on a level where we can work in union with HFS to help others on the most profound spiritual levels.

 

4. Dao Shi (道师)

Here we are granted the authority to represent Tai Shang Lao Jun as official representatives of the celestial realm. The Daoshi is authorised to delegate representation to those that reach Dao Zun level, so they can initiate others on their behalf.

 

What is more strange is that XYP dont have Shang Qing on altar but along Tai Shang Lao Jun they have Buddhist and Confucian statues so very sincretistic.

 

On our altars, that is if you even wish to have an altar, as it's not a necessity - we have: Tai Shang Lao Jun our Celestial head and his two Hufa; Er Lang Shen and Jiu Tian Xuan Nu : )

 

Confucianism didn't even exist during their time...

However, what you should also know is that a Buddhist is also a human and a spark of the Dao.

 

You better give Quanzhen a call about that and let them know how you really feel.

 

XYP have ritual in Temple and use of Talismans, Mantra and Hand seals and I hear have Spirit Lu registers which we can say is like Zheng Yi but I cant be sure on which level.

 

Doesn't matter to us really. We are not interested in legitimation by anyone or comparison. We stand on our own two feet.

 

I also didnt find paper in Bai Yun Guan (seat of Quanzhen) which mention XYP, and I speak with Longmen Pai, and San Feng Pai and Wudang Pai on Wudang Shan who also don't know about XYP.

 

Where is your proof?

 

Here's a picture of our Shifu initiating several priests in Quanzhen (Who you claim don't know us):

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42697-yuxianpai-wuliupai-tradition-doctrine/page-2#entry724348

 

As I say in that post, we have done the same for many other priests from many other of the main schools and yes, they all know us : )

 

I imagine that your claims of Longemen and Wudang are just as credible.......

Maybe you don't have the authority to get the answers you are asking for, or maybe they can "see" your heart : )

 

Tai Shang Men is clan and this means there are more Pai among them,but I didnt be able to find who are this Pai along XYP who belong to TSM? 

 

It's just Tai Shang Men Xiao Yao Pai.