effilang

Scientist???

Not just, Brian. He is also the "greatest" Russian scientist of them all.

I don't mean to be rude, but it seems like there has been an organised consensus among your schools members to register on this board in the past week and open up a new thread every time you want to make a new point on something.

 

Often you will gang up on one person who doesn't agree with your views. What's with that mentality? As if your arguments are stronger in numbers or something?

 

The whole Daoist section is turning into a Wuliu Pai forum, with every other thread being started with the aim of discrediting another member on the board...

 

Isn't it possible for your school members to be a little more organised and use 1 or 2 threads to post Wuliu related things, as opposed to 10?

 

It's easier to keep track for starters.

Now calm down, love. Harmony and balance are the cornerstones of successful practice, remember? Also I feel quite lost when reading your lengthy posts. I personally always try to follow George Orwell's 5 rules for effective writing, i.e. Never use a long word where a short one will do, etc likewise.

 

Let's go back to our sheep - so you state that Awaken has already posted so much and why to ask? Don't be daft! Firstly, I could not find much needed information from her posts. Possibly there are a lot, but I don't speak Chinese. Secondly, why asking a simple question regarding a system and lineage caused such a reaction from you? This is quite odd. Thirdly, why not to share with us this information? - I believe this to be an elementary question, and an avoidance to answer it makes me very suspicious.

 

Dear Awaken, I am a sincere person, and I do have a sincere interest to learn about your school and system of practice. I would very much appreciate if you could share with us the basic concepts of your teaching, e.g. what is important, how to start, is it possible to start online, overview of stages of cultivation, etc. I just feel that apart from criticizing another school you are not writing much about your system and this is really quite bizarre.

What a repulsively conceited response.

Your acting is so transparent.

 

If you're really as genuine as you profess, just join her QQ group.

 

It is evident from awaken's reply to you, that she similarly has no interest to entertain your pointless questions, and for the ones that actually have to do with practice, as she has said: read her posts and you will find the answers.

 

Excluding the Chinese words, incase you're having a hard time with the dictionary or asking many of the Chinese speakers here for help, there is more than enough instructions in her posts that is clear and concise.

@dwai

 

It is time we truly recognize that the era of the hunter is past. This should be a more “feminine” era – an era when women make greater contributions to society. If we continue to devalue what women have to offer, we will continue harming women and continue overlooking and devaluing these virtues that are considered “feminine.” And these are precisely the virtues that the world needs more now.                         ~ 17th Karmapa

 

Not just for women, but also for men to express themselves more femininely : )

An old crazy/wise member (RJ) once stated 'How will your practice help you, after you are dead?'

 

That depends on how you practice while you are alive!

Since we are all like-minded people and have interest in Taoism and Ancient Tradition in general, it is important to understand gender roles in society from traditional point of view. Lets discuss the roles and functions of male and female and how this concept is seen in Taoism. Any views, insights, experience you wish to share?

 

So you want to know how Taoist women treated men and how Taoist men treated women several thousand years ago, so you can apply that to modern life? - How are traditional gender roles "important" to us in the present time of our lives?

 

I'm genuinely curious, lol.

Dear Awaken,

 

I am interested in knowing more about your school and methods. Could you please share with us the basic concepts of teaching, and also name your teacher's name and his lineage?

 

Are you kidding around? She has shared SO much already.

Just click on her user profile and check all her posts on the forum...

 

What is her teacher's name going to help you with?

Maybe she improved on her teachers teaching and what she has now is even more refined?

 

Isn't it better to focus on her since you want to learn from her?

Surely what she has learned from her teacher will be reflected in her own teaching?

 

This is so silly. It is like going to a martial arts class for the first time and asking the Shifu. 

 

"Hey, Shifu, who was your Shifu?"

"My Shifu was XYZ"

"Oh ok, great I will sign up for your class now"

 

Won't you even challenge the guy to a fight first?

Maybe you can beat him already.......................

 

Don't be blind followers people.

This is turning into extremist spirituality akin to a following of religious zealots.

 

Use your wisdom to discern what is NOW. Find the wisdom in what is presented to you NOW.

1) Since all superb Taoist alchemical  ways are  related to cosmology , an arena of  modern physics,  why people don't  pay more attention  to it ? Taoism views human body as a miniature of the much bigger cosmos, so there likely is  somewhat   relation/similarity  in between the Magic gateway ('玄關')  , the most important issue in neidan practice , and the black/white hole ?

 

Dao > Wuji > Taiji

 

Taiji = All physical phenomena, both particle and wave. Planets, Moons, Stars, Galaxies and Universes and Black Holes, are all part of Taiji.

 

Xuan Guang is an opening to Wuji, not Taiji; so material things cannot pass through it, but awareness can.

 

2)  The  highest Taoist  achievement is said to be  attaining  Shen, a special form of Wisdom ,   what is its relation to  AI or other forms of human intelligence , even to  the  iOT ?  

 

It has a personal local aspect which relates to your own personal experiences ie: past lives, memories, talents, emotions.

It has a global aspect which relates to the collective consciousness of the Dao and absolute truths, which can be accessed directly.

It has a foreign local aspects which relates to the experiences of other souls, which can be accessed on request and at the discretion of the respective soul.

 

Human Intelligence is the result of data collected by the 5 senses of the body which generate idea, memory, belief clusters that layer over one another over the years. The first to be created during our formative years, usually 3 to 6 years, are the most important, because once those layers are built up, every other new stream of data that is snapshotted has to traverse through this medium of relative ideas. So the new relative beliefs have to refract through the old relative beliefs. In other words the rate at which we lose our connection to our Yuan Xing is not linear, it is exponential.

 

AI is just AI, you know what that is. It's a product of human intelligence, but it lacks WILL and VOLITION.

Even at its highest point, it will always function as 1s and 0s, no matter how much information it can reference and connect to give the appearance of genuine intelligence. It will always lack the essence of spirit which is something which few people can achieve, talk less of reverse engineering it to infuse an AI. The only way I see that happening is if somehow DNA was manipulated to rewire the seat of a humans organic intellect to that of an AI core and then use that DNA to conjoin an egg with a sperm and let spirit do what it does and develop a biological organism which is a hybrid between organics and electronics. It's theoretically possible. The only problem is that the AI probably couldn't keep up with the amount of information that is being processed by our senses every second of the day. Where would it store it? How would the Yuan Shen upload the information from the AI to record it as it does other former life experiences? Will it be dull and stupid due to its inability to process information quickly enough? Who knows. Science will tell us one day.

 

3)  Taoist daozhan (collection of Taoist classics )  is so huge that to exploit it involves issues of text mining and big data , anybody ever thinks of  talking about it ?  

 

That would be a waste of time to me. At the most it would be entertaining.

 

4) Forever  youth is what Taoism affirms , it involves issues of skin care, regeneration , DNA.. that seldom people here  touch.

 

Modern science is innovating very successfully in all these fields. I reckon in another 50 years, the only thing that will prevent people from living for a very very long time, say another 50 or 100 years on top of their current age, will be primarily money.

 

Daoism stagnated for a VERY long time. I always say that if you look back at the sages. They were always innovating, introducing new ideas, introducing new inventions and EVOLVING culture. That was several thousand years ago. Look at Daoism today. What advances have we made? Still sitting around 3000 years later, discussing the old master's books. What a god damn shame. Then again, if we're so stupid that after several millenia we still can't agree on one thing, we sure as hell aren't gonna innovate, lol.

 

If any of these ancient schools that claim their members never die were so genuine, we would have heard about it in the news and science would have started investigating it. Alas, we know where we stand.

 

At the end of the day. It's not about how much time we have, but how we use it. If we assume most people will have an average life, its more than enough to make some very very solid work in cultivation.

 

5) Acupuncture  nowadays is widely applied on animals/pets  : dog ,cat ..when they get sick ,  but can  it be applied on a parrot , dolphin or  octopus ? What forms of distribution of qi on them ? Say,  how the DU channel runs on an octopus ?  What acupuncture points we should choose when curing a dolphin ?What is its relation to biological holography  ?

 

From what I know it is being done in veterinary acupuncture, even for dolphins. Who managed to map the acupuncture system of these animals and when did it happen? Who knows. It's a good thing the animals can't speak....

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

 

I wouldn't judge people so harshly, AAK, for not being able to answer.

It is after all a lengthy answer depending on how in-depth you wish to go.

I usually have long posts, but just thinking about starting to explain all that makes me shiver.

 

We don't have to know the details of how one energy form converts to another or how a nuclear reactor operates, so that we can switch on the lights at home or make a cup of tea.

 

Many of these transformations happen because they happen with good practice and not necessarily due to our knowledge of them. We can stoke the fire and miraculous transformations can happen of their own. Do we need to know how exactly, no. Everything has its nature and its way. If we pacify the mind as a form of resistance, all things will follow ziran and express their divine nature, without effort. Yes, I agree there is a time to do and a type to stop doing in practice, but even the time for this can be felt if one refines their sensitivity.

 

I know plenty of people who do know any terminology, cannot recognize any charts or pictures, or know what is going on, but they have made much more progress than those that have spent years studying it.

 

Maybe the philosophy of the Dao isn't always the best way to judge someones level of practical achievement.

Most spiritual experiences are ineffable beyond a point. All we can do to communicate them is reduce them and cram them down into words and symbols so the mind can understand. Even so, the mind does not know what it does not know. All it can do is imagine it until it experiences it directly, at which point, who cares if you can explain it? : )

Another point is that the true teacher has a proven achievement and a traditional line and methods, while reading the book only gives you a huge field of guessing what to do with the abstract practice written or translated by somebody.

 

So does that mean that the true teacher's book which documents his methods is good enough, or did the teacher purposefully give wrong instructions to hurt others? : )

 

If I know that 1 + 1 = 2 and I go to teach first grade maths, I will not write on the board 1 + 1 = 3.

I don't think that the benevolent sages of old, wrote down instructions with the aim of hurting people.

Yes, they used a lot of substitutes and symbols, but the instructions were still accurate and that is why people were able to achieve results.

 

Just like If I said,  Potato + Potato = Potatoes

All that is required of the student is to understand that Potato is in the singular form, then he can deduce that "Potatoes" means 2.

 

I know many people who meditated on their own for a long time and penetrated into the divine realm where they found a spirit teacher to guide them further yet.

 

What you're arguing though is that one cannot even get to THAT stage without a human teacher.

Let me ask you this, ok. It's a very simple question and I want to see if you can answer sincerely from your heart.

 

Were you born with the idea that you cannot achieve it without a teacher, or was it taught to you?

Ah ok here is what I meant to say.

 

By the body I mean more of the alchemy process where the essence of the spirit and body meat in the middle dantian (creating the vajra in the heart) and the golden body manifests that way for us. Now from that point we work on absorbing divine energy and the spirit world.

 

Now it seems that the taoist neidan approach is more of cultivation the body jing qi shen via mco breathing techniques etc and projecting the spirit body and cultivating in the spirit realm then bringing the spirit body back in and attaining the taoist gold body of light that way.

 

So my question would be do you spirit project out in your training and cultivate in the spirit realm directly if so do you feel that this way is a faster way of serving the earthly and heavenly realms?

 

You will have to wait for AAK's answer on the first questions, as his tradition is more familiar with that I think, because I see that you are saying we need to project to create the spiritual body, then come back into the body again for something else?

 

Ohh.. wait I understand what you're saying now.

 

So In houtian when the immortal child is born, what we call Xiao Shen (baby or small shen), we usually have to bring it back in to protect it, just like a new born baby. Especially because it is still unintelligent due to our not completing the fusion with awareness yet. So it is naive and susceptible to attack. So yes, it must be withdrawn into the body to continue the process of maturation or melding with our awareness.

 

In Xiantian the Xiao Shen does not need protection because we are wrapped with divine energy, so we have no reason to withdraw it, but projecting the Xiao Shen is not fully synonymous with entering Wuji. Just like the energy of the Ren and Du meridians can change its property to synchronize with divine energy, but the meridians don't have to move. Nevertheless, the projection or birth is important, because it is part of the maturation process of the Yang Shen. Just like a physical baby cannot begin to live until it is delivered. 

 

There is also a difference between someone giving you a rubber hose to use to give yourself water (divine energy) and jumping in the sea.

 

So, what im trying to say is that, whether the Yang Shen is outside or inside the body, it is always connected to Wuji. We can absorb divine energy inside the body or outside the body, but for houtian practitioners its safer to recall it back to the body to protect it while it matures, but they still continue to absorb divine energy from Wuji, just a little more differently.

 

The frequency of our awareness is what allows us to channel and sustain the state of Wuji through which we absorb divine awareness. So its not an ability triggered by the Yang Shen, but by our awareness. That's why during initiation we trigger the Shen in the apprentice, so that there awareness can tune the radio to the right frequency immediately, then we just wu wei.

 

So there is no need for the Yang Shen to MOVE in a physical way, because it is beyond space-time and inter-dimensional. So by being here, it is also there simultaneously. Our awareness and our soul also has this property, so actually a part of the human is always connected to the divine 24/7, even before they begin Neidan, even just after we are born, but our conscious awareness of this is what triggers our interaction with it on a practical level. So houtian builds a trigger to activate this, while xiantian methods start with the trigger, we just pull and fire.

 

For houtian practitioners, after the Xiao Shen is born, they cannot abandon the body, they must continue to cultivate for a long time until it is mature and aware. That's why houtian also places such a big emphasis on the physical body, because they need it to live as long as possible to finish the process, but in xiantian in XYP, after our energy congeals into Xiao Yan Shen, even if we die, HFS just guides us and protects us in the divine realm so we can continue to cultivate there and absorb divine energy. This is why in xiantian in XYP, we don't focus on the physical body beyond basic health. We have no diets. Nobody has to be a vegetarian. Eat what you like, do what you like, drink what you like. Like Lu Dong Bin eh? -  It does not affect our spirit work. That is naturalness (ziran). No rules. The Dao is the way without a way. That is why the moment we trigger real Neidan, it's wuwei from there on. The mind has no business at this level : )

 

In essence, after our Yang Shen begins to fuse with our awareness, it is like our awareness is delivered from the mother Earth (Taiji), that granted us the experiences necessary to evolve our awareness trough lifetimes, and into the spiritual world (Wuji), then it must mature (transfer/upload) together with the developing Yang Shen to become one.

 

PS: If breathing is involved with the MCO, it's still Qigong, because the breath is needed to support the movement of Qi. Later when the awareness integrates with the Qi, breath is not needed to fan or move it. Just mind.

I'm curious about the notion of Buddhists developing the body. If we're speaking of the two major forms of Buddhism, IME from living in monasteries and meeting bikkkhu and bikkhuni, that have been practicing upwards of 30 years in the sangha, I had yet to find one that was not feeble bodied and weak and there was never any body cultivation, only awareness and wisdom cultivation, but that lacks the development of the divine vehicle with which the awareness fuses: Yang Shen. In fact they even advised against doing physical exercise to enhance the body as it "attached" our awareness to the the body.

 

My issue with most Buddhist practice is that it is forming:

 

You have, the 4 noble truths, the 8 precepts, renunciation, completion and generation stage practice visualization etc.

All these have sets of rules to be followed, which help to point one in the direction of detaching from worldly life.

 

Do not do this, do that.

Do that, do not do this.

Visualize this, not that.

 

It is forming, and the form that those rules create tune the mind to a certain frequency; that is why the mind of a typical Buddhist has a form; the Buddhist form, fashioned by their many rules and literature.

 

This form has its own frequency which supposedly takes one to the highest goal, but the highest goal is the Dao and the Dao is formless, so how can the conceptual form of rules synchronize us with the highest goal, and how can form take us to the highest which is formless?

 

Kong = emptiness.

Empty, but not void. 

 

So something is missing there.

 

The immortals I know are happy, laughing, enjoy pleasure and delight and love to experience and appreciate existence.

This type of attitude is very different to the principles of Buddhism which encourage detachment from senses and abandoning the world to live a holy life. Even Nirvana means to extinguish or blow out (the fire of the three poisons), but In Daoism we grab the bull by the horns and jump on it's back and enjoy the ride. We are here to experience. It's very different.

 

We embrace the world, while Buddhists tend to look at is as illusory and avoid it. 

There is no illusion, the world is very real and our experience here is also very real and very important.

 

Why come to Earth, this beautiful planet teeming with life, creatures and experiences waiting to be had, if we were to simply hide away from it and seclude ourselves?

 

Daoism began by following nature. Nature does not hide away from itself, it embraces all.

 

I thought: 'I recall once, when my father the Sakyan was working, and I was sitting in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, then — quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful mental qualities — I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. Could that be the path to Awakening?' Then following on that memory came the realization: 'That is the path to Awakening.

 

This is how Buddha discovered Dhyana. He described it as being born of seclusion and convinced himself that we must move away from life to achieve it. Later when he left the palace for the first time, this further developed his idea that life was Dukkha and we must "escape" it. 

 

I'm sure that If I was kept in the palace all my life, fed grapes, got 8 hand massages from pretty ladies all day long, and pleasure and delight was all I knew of life, SURELY, when I left the palace and all I saw was sickness, death and old age - I would quickly develop an aversion to the reality of "life". That is why Buddhism looks at life so bitterly. It all stems from Buddha's initial reaction to reality and the idea about life as being something we must escape from, because his basis for this comparison and the conclusion that he established thereof was his privileged and lavish royal life.

 

If we look at the story of the three vinegar tasters, we see that:

 

- Kongfuzi said it was sour, because the world was imperfect and laws and regulations were needed to "correct" it.

- Buddha said it was bitter, because the world was filled with suffering and a method was needed to "escape" it.

- Laozi said it was sweet, because the world and all things had their inherent harmony, and rules only caused resistance against this natural flow, which needed not any "way" to be achieved, because we are already it, and so he looked at life positively and as having a sweet taste.

 

What is the purpose of spiritual cultivation?

 

To develop the spiritual body that can fuse with our awareness so we have a vehicle to traverse the spiritual realms.

We cannot create a spiritual body in the physical realm so we must first SHIFT our awareness to move from the physical realm (Taiji) to enter the spiritual realm (Wuji). The awareness actually has this multidimensional property.

 

Once the awareness has shifted into Wuji, we can begin to create the spiritual body (Yang Shen).

Then when we fuse the awareness to the developing spiritual body, we can slowly begin to operate it.

It's like we transfer our consciousness to it so it can absorb it fully, but it's not immediate, it is gradual.

 

That is why in some books they say that after the spiritual child is delivered from the top of the head into the spirit realm for the first time, it is still dull and stupid (just like a newborn baby) that has to absorb data through the senses to develop it's intelligence. The difference is that our intelligence has already developed as adults, so we just transfer it and fuse it into one body, then gradually the Yang Shen becomes operational. This is why, even though we get access to our former live's information and talents, immortals project themselves in the vision of their final earthly body and its corresponding awareness.

 

That is why it is SO VERY important to develop your intelligence and wisdom on Earth.

Here is where we can do it, because there are also OTHER PEOPLE here.

 

If we were alone, there is no way to advance, right? - Because we cannot interact with anyone.

Nobody can challenge us to make us angry, or jealous or anxious.

IF nobody or nothing is there to make those imperfections come up to the surface, how can we know they are there, waiting to be refined?

 

Can you see the importance now of entering society and being a part of life, vs leaving it to go into seclusion?

It is like shooting our potential for wisdom in the foot, but also for karma resolution. So we must live life as much as we can, it's for our own benefit. The spiritual body of the Dao itself cannot be inflicted with pain. That is why some theories claims that the Dao was so great and perfect, that it could not fully fathom its own perfection and infinity, so it spiraled down into physical existence so that through the imperfections and limitations of the physical body it could know itself completely, know its angers, know its frustrations, jealousies and pains - and then through that experience perfect them and rise above them to realize itself as Dao, in essence knowing its perfection through knowing its imperfection. It's an interesting theory : ) 

 

IF, we don't develop this intelligence and wisdom so we can refine our awareness and negative Yin characteristics, when what happens when we begin to develop the spiritual body and meld our awareness to it? I think you guessed it already. It cannot develop past Yin Shen level... Because we did not refine the Yin qualities.

 

I know monks who have been in the monastery for a looooooooong time. Longer than my time on earth.

They thought they had overcome all their negative characteristics, why? Because in the monastery everybody follows the rules, so nobody makes you angry, everybody is kind and compassionate. It is like trying to find a virus in a medical cleanroom; its very hard. So how can you know to refine your negative traits if they are never aroused? When they leave the monastery for the first time, they fall apart because the first person to insult them triggers them immediately and their whole wall of achievement crumbles in front of them.

 

The best swords are made in scorching fire, beaten between the anvil and the hammer, sparks flying.

 

So, the idea in Houtian is to raise our awareness from Jing to Qi to Shen after we reach Shen, then we are starting to push the membrane of Taiji - when we break that membrane, our awareness enters Wuji for the first time. HERE. We can begin to cultivate the immortal spiritual  body by absorbing the divine energy of Wuji into the spiritual body to solidify and strengthen it, just like the fetus absorbs the mothers energy to develop.

 

So, in Houtian we begin to build a bridge from one side of the cliff to the other.

When we get to the other side, we then start to cultivate the spirit by absorbing divine energy into the spiritual body to feed it and sustain it, so that it can develop from the spiritual sperm and egg (outer and inner medicines) to the zygote (great medicine) and from there turn into the embryo, then the fetus, then the baby (Xiao Shen Xien), then the baby is delivered from the top of the head to continue its growth. So before we can begin all this, in Houtian xiulian, we must ACTIVATE the Shen and breakout of Taiji, then we can start to ABSORB the divine energy from Wuji directly.

 

In Xiantian xiulian, we skip the building of the bridge entirely. During initiation our SHEN is activated on day one. Then through our assigned Hu Fa Shen tunes our awareness further so we start to absorb divine energy from Wuji from day one. Our spirit becomes wrapped with divine energy like a cocoon. That is the golden aura that wraps around every Dao Yu during initiation. Then when we sit down to practice and invite Hu Fa Shen, he guides our awareness to stay in Wuji, so we continue to absorb divine energy and our Yang Shen just develops naturally. So we enter Wu Wei in our Jing Zuo from day one. Then the transformation just happens automatically, no You Wei necessary at all.

 

The reason I say that our awareness is guided by HFS even after our SHEN is activated, is because your awareness cannot adjust in just one day after the initiation. We are used to having our awareness focused on our acquired earthly mind, so in the beginning stages of Xiantian practice, Hu Fa Shen will guide our awareness, and keep it in Wuji until we become conscious of its ability to shift between Taiji and Wuji, then we can independently MOVE it without Hu Fa Shen's guidance; and we just reside in Wuji and absorb divine energy so our Yang Shen grows.

 

This is why during initiation many people describe seeing the falling flowers and dancing snow, which is usually something you experience around the final stages of Taiji practice in Houtian when the immortal body breaks out of the head for the first time.

 

So the key is in the divine energy and absorbing it so that we can cultivate Hun Shen to Yin Shen to Yang Shen.

 

As someone who has practiced both systems, one of my greatest fascinations is connecting the dots between Houtian and Xiantian in terms of alchemical procedures, sequencing, timing, energy routes and meridians. 

 

I want to try and connect it as much as possible. My masters have no interest in the idea and I don't blame them, because when you have something that is working, you just go with it, but I feel like I have my feet in both of these ways, so I will do my best over the years to keep finding new puzzle pieces and putting together the grand picture so we  can find the subtle points of both approaches to spiritual cultivation for the benefit of all : )

 

Many people think that Shen Xian or Tian Xian level is it. Like that's it. There's nothing more after that, but that's not the case.

The Dao is infinite. So we are always always refining and Xiu Xin Yang Xing and preserving our Yuan Xing.

 

I'll give you an example:

 

Hu Fa Shen can see the future, but there is never only one future. Every given moment in the present can lead to multiply potential timelines and outcomes. So even though HFS can see what is going to happen, we as the student have the final say, because we have the power of free will. So that means we have the power to change our mind at any point and alter the future. So Hu Fa Shen can see one timeline and say, this is the most beneficial one for him, I will give him some small advice. Then because we are stubborn, we don't believe HFS, and say no, it can't be. I will do something else instead. Then after a while we realize we made the wrong decision and our life is a bit harder now. Then HFS facepalms.

 

For them it's tricky because they cannot really interfere with our life significantly. At the start they help a lot. If you slip your HFS will hold you up so you don't fall, but later as your wisdom matures, they just "watch". If you slip, they just watch to see if you will correct yourself so you don't fall down. If you do fall down, they just "watch" to see how you will pick yourself up.

 

So HFS, even though they are Yang Shen and already Shen Xian, through teaching us, also refine themselves be continuing to cultivate their Xiantian Wu Jing Shen. For example If Einstein was speaking to one of his colleagues, he could probably speak very easily at a very high level, but if you put a 10 year old in front of him, regardless of his wisdom, Einstein would be forced to find a way to communicate his wisdom to the child in a way he understands. That would help him refine his patience, his compassion, his understanding, his kindness and his flexibility.

 

So even with the Daoist Shen Xian, it is the same.

I am cultivating. My masters are cultivating. My Shifu is cultivating. My Hu Fa Shen is cultivating. Tai Shang is also cultivating : )

I think that only the western point of view in this matter is not enough. 

We have spoke about sexual orientation and gender but so far we have not spoke about energetic interactions inside the bodies. And I think that chinese devised a whole branch for females due to these energetic interactions. 

Besides, I don't think it is right to state that neidan is about formless spirit, we begin with the body and the body is form and polarity.

 

This is correct from one point of view, but there is another dimension to your answer which you have not introduced.

 

The process of creation is more akin to this:

Dao > [Wuji] > Yuan Shen > Yuan Qi > Yuan Jing > [Taiji] > Jing > Qi > Shen

 

So while from a human perspective, it's correct to say that we start with the body.

In reality, we know that we are not the body, so we can see that by the time we get to post-natal form (Jing), there is already quite a lot of transformation or spiraling down from the energy of the Divine Dao.

 

So the question is, after that has been said, does the spirit begin with the body or does the body begin with the spirit : )

 

The soul is at the center, always. The beginning and the end. 

 

The minimum necessary vessels for Neidan to happen are the qijing ba mai. In our tradition, in particular, not even all of them are needed, but only the first two which form right after the soul fuses with the zygote at the moment of conception; & these are Ren and Du. Again, perhaps this is in the differences between the starting point of Neidan in XT and HT. I cringe a little to call Xiantian Xiulian Neidan, due to where we start the process of spiritual cultivation, but it's a word which communicates a clear enough meaning.

 

If the sperm and egg conjoin, but the formless soul does not infuse them. Life cannot be produced.

 

If you haven't started working with the pre-natal energy then it's not Neidan yet. It is just Qigong.

If it's Neidan then it's only necessary to work with the qijing mai.

 

The physical body is for physical energy cultivation and the spiritual body is for spiritual energy cultivation, but the spirit cannot be cultivated with post Jing, Qi and Shen, which is why after actual Neidan starts, Wu Wei takes over and we simply reside, doing nothing and everything gets done.

 

If we are still doing by way of the body, then it's still You Wei, which means we have not touched Wuji yet.

If we have not touched Wuji yet, then we are still cultivating the body.

If we are still cultivating the body, then our awareness has not broken out of Taiji yet.

If our awareness has not broke out of Taiji yet, then we have not began work with the Qijing Ba Mai.

If we have not began work with the Qijing Ba Mai then we are practicing postnatal Qigong.

 

The Qijing Bamai don't just disappear after we are born.

They are there, in the background, but to access them we have to tune the frequency of our awareness to that vibration again, the vibration we have when we are still in the womb and just after we are born.

 

There is always Qi flowing through them. It's not like they suddenly open up when we begin to practice Nei Dan. IF they were not functioning we will die. Ren and Du are always working. Some people get confused when someone says, we have to open Ren and Du. They are already opened, but what changes is the state and quality of the energy that is flowing through the Qijing Bamai to produce a different effect to that of the post-natal Qi that primarily takes care of our organs and biological functions. So it is like we access a different dimension of these mai that post-natal Qi cannot touch.

 

If we set up the body initially, so that it is healthy. It is so that it will not disturb us during Neidan.

But setting up the body is not part of Neidan, maybe something like a foundational or a preliminary phase.

 

Nei Dan is about producing Da Dan.

Da Dan is formless and the basis of Yang Shen, which is also formless (Wuji).

For the heavy karma like death, there is no way. We have to come back and repay it with death to close the karmic loop and neutralize the relationship.

 

BUT

 

If during your life you focus on cultivating the subtle immortal spirit to the point that when your physical body dies you can leave Taiji, and you only have minor karma left to repay. THEN it's ok, you don't have to enter Taiji again for a new natural birth to live life as a human again. You can sign up for a duty and become a helper or a guardian or a teacher and pay your debt off that way through guiding someone in their dreams, or appearing as a vision or giving them subtle advice about life.

 

OR... OR... maybe, you can even become a Hu Fa Shen to the person/soul you didn't manage to meet during your life (ie because you hid away in a monastery) and repay the karma back through teaching if it corresponds with the weight of the karma.

 

It's not linear. There are different options.

 

The best option is to:

 

1. Cultivate our subtle spiritual body (Yang Shen) 

2. Be a part of life so that karma can unfold and we can meet our karmic soul-counterparts to collect and pay debts.

3. Generate Gong De through selfless deeds.

4. Develop our wisdom and intellect.

 

Then we can guarantee at least that when we die, if there is any heavy karma we have left to repay, like death, we can post-pone it for as long as we want and cultivate in Wuji before we have to enter Taiji again to repay the karma of a natural death.

 

It also guarantees our wisdom will allow us to go deeper into Wuji after we die, instead of getting stuck at the Yin Shen (awareness only) level and being forced to eventually reincarnate again.

 

AAK. This was in reference to what you said before.

We have the same principles in our school also.

 

Awareness + Yang Shen = Xian Shen (complete attainment)

 

If we cultivate awareness only and wisdom without a subtle body that can transport it in Wuji, then we can't go deep into the Dao, because we lack a spiritual body to transport us (Yang Shen).

 

As one of my masters says, awareness is the light that is projected by the lamp, while the lamp itself is the body, which can either be Yang Shen, Yin Shen or Human. All determine how deep we can penetrate into the Dao.

 

It is the same on earth to move our awareness around the earth so we can experience life, we need a physical body.

Effilang,

yes you are right about getting out of Taiji for immortals, however something still would be different for man and woman on high levels. Yang Shen would have specific abilities different for man and woman (saying that based on open Russian articles of WuLiupai disciples).

 

And I'm not talking about hohomosexsuals in practice, because this need investigation. And I don't have any info on this topic. I have my own opinion, but I would keep it, so not saying empty words. 

 

My point was that spirit is not asexual. 

However, A.A.Khokhlov expressed it better than me in point 2

---

Best Regards,

Arkady

 

Well I have never seen any difference in the product of practice between women and men in spiritual cultivation, both develop Yang Shen and I say this having have far more women in our school that we do men.

 

Yin and Yang collapse into Wuji. There is no woman is different from man here because there is no more man and woman.

 

Today I am a man, yet I have been a woman in my former lives, but also a man.

I have been homosexual and heterosexual in those past lives too.

How is it possible if spirit has one sex?

 

Do you think you have only been a man through all your lives?

 

Don't mistake the appearance of a spirit with its actual form.

One is just a projection the other one is Yuan Xing.

 

Again, I feel like our discrepancies here may be due to the differences in Xiantian and Houtian xiulian.

 

I think it's very interesting to try to make those connections and find out why one is different in yours, but not different in mine. Then we can draw a complete map.

1. You are trying to equalize everything. We will end in saying being a human and being an animal is the same if animal feels itself ok. If you would like to understand what blindness is just put a blindfold on your eyes and live 1-2 days like that. After that you would have a real opinion on how blindness changes life and can you just ignore it saying "my life is as colorful as before".

 

Yes, both are just the experience of being and the evolution of consciousness and awareness.

A human is not the same. We've come a long way to evolve to the status of humans and our awarenss is different.

 

I actually like to blind fold myself every other weekend between 3 hours and 8 hours, so joke is on you haha

I think it's a good practice : )

 

My point was about whether a blind person who wasn't told his was blind would know he was blind, not whether one that could already see, voluntarily blinded himself. Of course, "knowing" before hand changes everything, but we are always in a state of NOT KNOWING what we DON'T YET KNOW. Does that mean we are out of balance? Because if that is the case, then we are perpetually out of balance, because the Dao is infinite and this is reflected in our cultivation.

 

What I was trying to illustrate is that by not being aware of a relative state of balance one cannot know that they do not fit within that norm, demonstrating that often ignorance can be bliss, since that which is NORMAL anyway, is a relative expression of another persons mind and opinions and not a form of absolute reality, which is void of mind.

 

One commedian made a joke one time about having sex with a deaf girl. He wondered what the deaf girl's moans of sexual pleasure would sound like compared to the typical moan of a woman, who all seem to sort of moan the same way after hearing each other, he said : )

 

Maybe she would sound like Godzilla? Or Chewbacca?

Which one is more natural then?

 

In which case, is nature only that which man does not touch or is nature also that which man creates, man himself being a part of it?

 

 

2. First, who said you spirit has no sexuality? Actually this question has a direct answer and a reason behind it.

Secondly you might be mixing up traditions working solely with spirit (most of modern systems are about it) and traditions working with both spirit and yuan qi (and yuan qi is the part determining sex of a person).

 

I did : )

 

In our school we work with immortals every day. While they can project as males or females and generally associate with their last human form, their natural form is a state of completely unbinary and asexual energy.

 

And there is a law of the soul which is also projected into the Yuan Shen; FREE WILL.

 

It is a fundamental right, so even our sexuality is down to Taiji, it is not absolute. The human body is a product of TAIJI, it cannot be absolute in any form. It's a simple law. If things could be absolute here and if there could be physical immortality, there would be no need for separate realms ie: Taiji and Wuji and physical immortality would be the highest goal instead of spiritual immortality as the focus, but we know that we leave this realm to go somewhere else, where there is no physical body or form unless created by our own awareness.

 

Free will is very important.

The Dao does not deprive a soul of choice, but we must bear our consequences.

 

Even immortals cannot escape their karma, they also have to take care of what is left, especially for the ones that practice immortality by going away to hide in the monastery. If life cannot touch them, because they are so removed from society then how can they ever neutralise their karma with the souls to which they owe a debt?

 

The Dao is like flowing water, if we are out in the open it will wash us all the time. If we build a brick wall around ourselves and a brick roof ontop of our head, it will still get to us eventually by eroding the rock. The question is are we going to be dead by then? : )

 

That is why if we look back at the old sages, they were all part of society in one way or another.

Again this is due to immortality not being an on and off switch, but a progressive development.

 

Your karmic debt cannot just disappear. How is that fair to the souls to whom you owe it?

So if you killed 1,000 people and then you "become" an immortal, that's it, you're off the hook?

How do those souls some of which have incarnated specifically at this time so they can coincide with your presence complete their goal? Some wait many life times so you can meet in the same place on the physical plain to resolve your karma? What happens to them?

 

Life and death can only be repaid by life and death.

Some other types of karma can be broken down to make it easier, but some cannot be negotiated.

 

Back to the orientation stuff.

 

If I'm born a girl with a physical body but environmental and pyshological factors predispose me to a male gender identity, I can alter my body through hormones and even get a penis transplant.

 

If I'm born a guy I can also become a girl.

 

If the spirit governs everything and Yuan Qi factors into it during early development, then why would one ever be born with a female body but the gender identity of a man or vice-versa. A hiccup in the perfected Dao? 

 

None of these physical alterations change the polarity of a person's energy, but again, that does not stop one from practisting Neidan and there is nothing to be corrected, IMO and IME.

 

I do not agree than Yuan Qi is responsible for ones sexuality.

The Yuan Qi can contribute to the determination of SEX, but not SEXUAL IDENTITY.

 

I am heterosexual through and through, but If I decided that I wanted to go and have sex with a man today I could, who knows I might even enjoy it eh?

 

We have the power to chose. The power of free will can never be stripped form the Soul. That's our highest right.

 

We're going into gender identity here and nature vs nurture discussions and that's gonna go on forever, so maybe it's better to just say that we have different opinions on the matter and agree to disagree on this one : )

 

 

 

3. Lets make an experiment. When you next time are going to have a meal - please notice if are you thinking like "I think today I need to want eat more sugar" or you are thinking like "Hey I want suger. Dont know why, but I defeinitely want it!".

Or another experiment: you can try not to drink for some time. Please notice what would happen earlier: you would notice a desire to drink or you would think that "I haven't been drinking for 3 hours 31 minutes. Now its time for me to drink."

 

Well in my life, both are normal, because there are many things that I schedule, such as drinking water to keep hydrated at certain intervals. So again, there are no absolutes. The body can communicate it's needs to us or we can communicate our needs to the body. Its relative. That's Taiji.

 

Most of the time I chose what to eat and keep track of what I haven't eaten.

So it's quite normal for me to go to the kitchen and think to myself "I haven't had omega 3 this week" - Let's make fish or lets have some ceareal with chia seeds. After all we should know the condition of our own body and what we are giving it, when and how much. My body can't communicate to me the desire for a specific thing like omega 3, yet I know its essential to me and the body can't produce it naturally, so I have to use my mind.

 

It also happens that I desire to eat something, but the reason that EVER happens is if I think about the thing in my mind.

If I sit here now and remind myself of the taste of a certain childhood food, of course the memory cluster that registered the data from the 5 senses associated with that experience will trigger and ill be able to see it, taste it and even smell it depending on how in touch I am - AND naturally, that will make me want to eat it, but that's a voluntary action, we are in control of it.

 

 

4. That might be ok. Usually person needs some rare product if he/she has some rare deviation in his / her metabolism. And eating such a product can make person healthy again. If that was not a desire of mind!

 

Yes. My point is that it's not rare. In one culture it's normal in another it's not. If you served a rat to someone in one Country they would throw up. If you served it somewhere else they would lick their lips. It's due to the relative nature of mind and their environment. It's Taiji.

 

 

 

5. After they've become an immortal. Before that they can only be as they were born.

 

Again I don't understand this notion of "becoming" an immortal, as if it simply just clicks and it happens suddenly.

It's a very progressive development.

 

And I don't agree with the second sentence either.

 

We are born as women, but we can chose to be and act as men.

We are born as men, but can chose to be and act as women

 

And again here we are getting very very relative and touching cultural views of masculinity and femininity.

 

More and more men nowadays are becoming more in touch and open with their emotions, does this make them gay or increase their chances of becoming homosexual because they are closer to women who usually have much more open hearts?

 

The way we develop prior to birth is due to the soul (asexual) and the prenatal jing, qi and shen and qijing ba mai, but the way we become after that, hetero or homo is due to how we develop at a very early age AFTER we are born obviously.

 

The soul is beyond duality and so genderless, it cannot be responsible for sexual orientation and gender.

 

If sexuality is something so vague and abstract yet you claim that it cannot change beyond what it is born as, then what does that say for the more physical aspects that we are born with in Taiji, like flesh and bones? You claim those can be transformed into the highest formless state, so why not something like sexuality which is already at the level of the acquired postnatal Shen? Surely that would take much less effort? 

 

How can the immaterial spirit that is beyond duality have a sexuality which is an expression of Yin and Yang? That is not Yuan Xing, but just a presentation.

effilang, you usually ask pretty big questions.  I will take a look at others' posts later.

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

 

The little ones are no fun

As far as I know immortals status is different for man and for woman, at least on Di Xian stage.

 

Spiritual Immortality has to do with the cultivation of the formless spirit. That is the goal of Neidan.

 

Any type of genuine spiritual cultivation focuses on this spirit which can only be cultivated in emptiness, which means one must already have found a way to reach the highest vibration in Taji (Shen) then push even deeper into the Dao to enter Wuji, where this transformation can begin and continue to take place.

 

The highest vibration of post natal Shen in Taji, is the lowest vibration in Wuji where spirit cultivation takes place and the immortal spirit is matured, incubated in primordial Qi that is the essence of Wuji.

 

Thus any definition which has the word "immortal" in it, implies that one has at minimum managed to project their awareness outside the realm of the physical Taiji and entered into Wuji, directly eliminating the concept of man and woman, which is of Taiji.

 

If there is still man and woman as a defining characteristic in a persons practice, then they are still practicing in Taiji, which means they are still yet only cultivating physical energy, which will die with the body and cannot transcend death.

 

When we begin to cultivate our Yin Shen to become Xiao Shen and from Xiao Shen to become Yang Shen, it may have our features, but that is not its true state.

 

IF anything a bisexual is CLOSER to the state of the formless spirit than a heterosexual

 

Please judge logically, we have different bodies (Ming), so when we engage Xing and Ming we would have somehow not equal result.

 

Yes, but I am not talking about dual-cultivation or bedchamber arts and someones sexual orientation does not alter their underlying structure on the most fundamental level. Our psychology can have a great effect on the rest of our body, but it has limitations. A homosexual person or a bisexual person or an asaxual person or a pansexual person has the same potential and energy system to cultivate the immortal spirit as a heterosexual.

 

The cultivation of the immortal spirit in Neidan has nothing to do with someones preference between fucking or getting fucked. Pardon my French :>

 

Also need to mention that in Traditional schools like WuLiupai the progress happens differently for man and woman.

 

Ah. The traditional argument. Wu Liu If i'm not mistaken is around 500-600 years old?

So if my school is older than yours, does it mean I'm more traditional than you?

 

So at least at Di Xian stage the Man-immortal and Woman immortal are different.

 

I never said anything about men or women, I was just talking about homosexuality and bisexuality in Neidan, in particular.

 

Furthermore at the Di Xian level, one is already well into the cultivation of the immortal spirit, which means they are already working with their awareness within Wuji. How then can there be the notion of man or woman in emptiness? This is not true emptiness, but relative emptiness, which means one has not shifted out of Taiji yet, but is still trapped in the physical realm.

 

If you see an immortal as a man or a woman, it is only because they project that way.

When you connect to one and see a man or a woman, ask them to show themselves in their formless state, and you will see the difference : )

What a great mixture of sources!

You are putting together buddhist studies, greeks and daoists.

 

Sort of like the Quanzhen with Daoism, Confucianism and Buddhism?

Coincidentally, they are called the "Complete Reality."

It is exactly what our Teacher in China says about healing others. Unless a person has an unlimited primordial energy he better not heal anyone but finish his cultivation first. Otherwise he will waste it and wouldn't even be able to finish the practice.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

 

Interesting. We have similar principles in our tradition, only we do not have to finish our cultivation to get to the point of being able to continuously transform Wuji energy to Taiji so that we can influence another persons human energy (post jing,qi,shen) - it is due to the way in which we connect our Ren and Du. It's different from other schools.

The balance only seems to be subjective.

 

Lets return to the example with taste. In both deviations from balance - eating nothing and eating everything person would get sick. And would be healthy only in the point of balance. This balance is not subjective (being determined by person's mind), it is objective, being determined by the laws of nature (structure of human body).

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

 

Hmmmm... I think that it might be a bit of a contradiction to try and use the body as a means of establishing an objective absolutism.

 

The physical body is not absolute in its structure or function. Even when things appear to be the same, they are different. As long as there is the acquired mind in the equation (and that is always relative), the corresponding Qi and Jing will always be relative to that individual. After all, we know that in Taiji everything is relative.

 

Looking at the Taijitu you posted above we can see that clearly.

There is only one thing in relation to another.

Good and Bad are also relative.

The Dao and nature do not judge us.

Thus there is only karma in the consequences of our actions.

 

The human body is a very bad example of a constant, IMO.

Deviations, I'm sure you agree can come in varying degrees. 

In terms of the human being, these can be physical, energetic and psychological.

 

One persons prescribed medical treatment, can kill another.

 

How do we "balance" someone's taste who has had a glossectomy?

What about the ones that are born without a tongue at all, are they perpetually out of balance with nature?

The brain can also change physically overtime in a way which makes you taste differently. How do you re-balance that?

Is invasive surgery part of natures balancing act?

 

Can a human restore the balance of nature?

Is a human, nature?

Is man-made technology, nature?

 

If you never tell a blind person he is blind, and he lives on absolutely fine, who is to say he is out of balance?

Only a relative comparison can bring about an idea of in balance and out of balance, IMO.

 

Many of the medical standards which are used to diagnose people and measure peoples vitals have to be adjusted from person to person relative to their constitution. It's all relative here in this realm.

 

The only reason spiritual cultivation can be achieved only through 1 way; emptiness, is because the spirit is not of this realm.

That's why you have 10,000 Qigong systems, but only emptiness can lead you to cultivate the spirit. One deals with Taiji energy, the other with Wuji energy.

 

You said homosexuals are a deviation in Neidan, but Neidan has to do with the cultivation of the spirit that is asexual.

What about bisexuals then? Do we make an exception for them because they can make babies?

 

Taste is given people to distinguish good and bad food.

Agree. Let me put here one addition from WuLiupai and Yuxianpai Schools...

 

- ...60 years from now when we are all young (well, middle-aged is sill ok) and black-haired, we come together to approve a plan of spreading Real Dao in the West for the next 60 years...

 

I heartily wish this good result to every sincere daoshi here. See you!

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

 

I will see you then and bring my hairdresser to make sure you're not using any hair dye

Yinqiao channel is not a "middle mai". The last sentence ("Physicians...") means this Yinqiao is not from common "extraordinary channels" list.

 

AAK,

 

Are you talking about the Intersecting Yin Heel Vessel when you say Yinqiao, or is it something else?

If it is, I think it's common in acupuncture, albeit not used for the same purpose at all.

 

I vaguely recall a memory of a text to something of this degree:

The true immortal man breathes through the heels, referring to the Yang and Yin Heel Mai.

 

 

We don't use these in our tradition, but I know that it is part of Houtian xiulian and a necessity in the work of the great medicine after the internal and external agents have been combined.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

*cracks thread door door open slightly and pokes head in to see if will not get hit by flying book"

 

oh, ok... phew. The coast look clear   

 

I just want to pop in quickly, to drop a few ideas to stir some thinking.

I'd like to address the topic of: Can know alchemy of ones self vs Can only know alchemy from a teacher.

 

I will not speak in a matter of fact way so as to not offend anyone.

Again I just want to maybe trigger a thought process.

 

So. There is a theory in Daoism that says that while the fetus is undergoing development in the body up until around the first year post delivery into the world, the primary operating nature is that of the pre-heavenly nature and spirit (xiantian zhi shen), while the post-heavenly nature (houtian zhi shen) has yet to fully seat itself on the throne of active consciousness.

 

So it is like the Xiantian Shen is the rightful Emperor that gets overthrown by his Military General; Houtian Shen.

 

This condition of being is represented by the empty circle of Daoism; Wuji:

 

 

For the purpose of this illustration, for now just imagine the white circle to be a glowing orb of radiant brightness; an orb whose complex of spiritual energy in one aspect contains all our former life time memories and experiences. It is pristine and clear and tranquil and nothing gets in the way of it radiating its information outwards into the world through the medium of the physical body which it now occupies.

 

Because there is no obstruction from the acquired mind yet, it is said that at this age we are as close to the mind of the Dao as possible in earthly form : )

 

So a wise guy once said:

Carrying body and soul and embracing the one,
Can you avoid separation?
Attending fully and becoming supple,
Can you be as a newborn babe?

 

As practical evidence of this, we have many instances throughout our lives when children around this age and slightly older, are able to tap into talents and information from former lives and express them through their current body. Things that they have not learned yet themselves ie: amazing mathematical feats, amazing feats of artistry, playing instruments, speaking foreign languages, recollecting event from their former life on earth etc.

 

As development progresses, the 5 bodily senses continue their operation, absorbing new data from the environment and creating new relative concepts based on their experience of reality - the acquired consciousness begins to form, but here's the catch. At this point only one consciousness can actively seat on the throne, so as the acquired mind develops, the light of the primordial mind begins to wane... becoming eclipsed like a moon that looses its brightness, only slightly visible on the edges.

 

 

Thus the 5 thieves, steal the absolute radiance of the primordial spirit and replace it with relative ideas, where an IDEA is the coagulated result of data absorbed through the 5 external senses and conveyed to the brain by electrical impulses to fuse together into one "relative belief".

 

Essentially, we can both look at the same cloud in the sky, but because you are a biologist while I am a vegetable farmer; you might see the cloud to be in the shape of a complex protein, while i might see a simple potato. Yet, both experiences of life albeit it relative are both completely valid.

 

What if my eyes are less sensitive to the red wavelength and the color of an apple we both look at appear slightly different? What the skin on my hands is rougher than yours because I'm a blacksmith while you are a sake maker that has some of the softest skin on their hands? How would some soft silk feel to each of us relative to our senses? 

 

This is relative reality.

What is absolute reality? It is that which the Houtian Shen cannot touch and it It is in this question:

 

What is the silk and what is the apple when neither of us are there to experience it?:

Empty, but not Void.

 

How does it smell then, how does it feel, what is its structure and composition when there is no external consciousness to project onto it?

 

When the acquired consciousness thus obstructs the original mind, we also begin to lose our conscious access to this former lifetime information. Then the child who could draw like a master artist forgets how to do it and the one who could speak another language forgets how to speak it. It has not disappeared, but because the bandwidth of the connection between the Xiantian Zhi Shen and the Houtian Zhi Shen is limited (like an ethernet cable), the one that is drawing more information gets priority. And which of our minds is costantly active? The acquired mind of course, the thinking and intellectual mind. While the primordial Xiantian Zhi Shen resides in stillness.

 

Further evidence to this is that when one practices properly and begins to spark back the original mind into burning bright once again, we begin to recollect our past life events, our inherent talents also begin to trigger again and much more.

 

So the connection between Xiantian Shen and Houtian Shen is always there. The potential of the primordial is always seeded in the postnatal nature, ready to bet watered. How do we do it? By turning the light of the awareness around from projecting outside to project inside. When the awareness does not go outside and follow thoughts, when it resides in stillness, it begins to match the vibration of the original mind. This is why they say:

 

Leave your front door open, leave your back door open. Let your thoughts come and go, just dont serve them tea.

 

This is why it's very important for parents to carefully monitor their children at this age when they express some type of skill or knowing beyond knowing. Because if they catch it, it is like they hold a thread to the original mind and if they cultivate it by encouraging their child in this activity, that thread alone can serve to maintain a strong connection to the Xiantian Zhi Shen, giving that child a much greater chance of success in spiritual cultivation that other's whom did not receive that type of nurturing attention and were left to completely obscure their original nature, as naturally happens in Taiji.

 

This is also why those artists who catch that thread and cultivate it into their maturity, when they perform their art they always feel like they are having a divine experience. Whether it's playing music, or painting or doing a mathematical equations. It's because they were lucky enough to have good parents that encouraged their intuitive and innate divine creativity rather than supressing it. That's why I believe what Sir Ken Robinsons said in his famous TED talk; that school kills creativity, but as a Daoist, we can see the effect and rapidity of loss is much deeper than just creativity.

 

So, now that the foundation of my question has been built. Here is my question.

 

Do you believe that those whom have made Neidan progress in their former lives are incapable of accessing, retrieving and rekindling such information - bringing it to the foreground of conscious activity, youwei, where its experiential wisdom can be used to propel someone along the path of Neidan, at least to the level of their former life time's achievement?

 

The Yang energy of development takes quite a while to PEAK before Yin begins to arise strongly, maybe even up to puberty? Is this not one of the reasons why children make such good students of spiritual cultivation, because among other things of alchemical significance, they are far more in touch with their intuition and original mind as a result of having a less dominant Houtian Shen?

 

Would such a scenario not constitute the possibility of Neidan practice without the need for a teacher?

 

Maybe they will eventually need a teacher, because they only got to 60% of the way in their former lifetime, but how many people today even get to such a number? How many even get to 10% or even 1%?

 

Anyway. Just speculating as usual

 

*flies away