forestofclarity

I think that pain and suffering is an indication of a misalignment-- physical, mental, and/or spiritual. I also think that all three are connected and interdependent. 

 

Some pain and illness can be addressed in ways put forth here, and some of it has deeper, karmic roots. Suffering can always be addressed. 

 

7 hours ago, Krenx said:

Unskillful actions would be doing everything in your power to cover up the pain with drugs, avoid the pain by not moving at all, develop identity and an unhealthy relationship with the pain; for example using it to gain pity, as an excessive excuse to not take up responsibilities etc. The mind and body has the ability prolong pain and injury when it serves their vices. Or you hate it so much, you exert on that pain to make the injury WORSE. 

 

Well said! 

Mod Note: Off topic discussion moved here:

 

 

I thought Isaac Newton would be the most famous person to have studied Hermeticism. 

 

10 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

There is not a large amount of cash needed for activation of dantian, just your time and effort to do proper practice 

 

The cash was generally for medical treatments, healings, pills, opening energetic channels, introductions, seminars, etc. This has come up a number of times over the history of TDB. 

 

10 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

And who is making this claim? 

 

I've had many conversations over the years, it's just something that stuck in my mind. In the esoteric arts realm, I've discovered a lot of times there are layered approached to teaching, with key teachings often not being transmitted at all or only to a few select students. Sometimes false or modified teachings are given, etc, especially to the public or Westerners. 

 

5 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Well I’ve never gone to meet him in person, and I’ve activated my dantian with the methods he’s taught. Many other students too.

 

I remember that we had a whole discussion some years ago and the bottom line from Rudi was that if one couldn't emit electric qi and one's students couldn't emit electric qi, it didn't count.

 

 

 

23 hours ago, Kati said:

I wonder:

Has anyone else felt this kind of natural quietness just from trust or surrender?

Could this be something like what Daoists mean by aligning with the Dao, or “wu wei”?

I’d love to hear your thoughts or experiences.

 

Surrender seems to be a large part of it. It is not always clear what is being surrendered. Typically, it refers to the acquired mind (識神) or shi shen, the series of habits and ways of doings things that we've picked up over our lifetime or many lifetimes. Under it, the yuan shen (元神), is primordially free and connected to the larger whole. 

 

I often think of the TTC 48 on this (trans Derek Lin)

 

Pursue knowledge, daily gain
Pursue Tao, daily loss
Loss and more loss
Until one reaches non-action
With non-action, there is nothing one cannot do
Take the world by constantly applying non-interference
The one who interferes is not qualified to take the world

1 hour ago, Tim the enchanter said:

Don't know if a classic Daobums answer is a good or bad thing  I'm fairly new here.

 

It's the classic spirit of first hand experimentation and free inquiry that will not be limited by rules and limits. I think it is a good thing!

On 9/11/2025 at 10:00 AM, Tim the enchanter said:

You can pretty much get to the bottom of what he is doing from his two books and some experimentation

 

Classic Daobums answer!

 

On 9/11/2025 at 10:00 AM, Tim the enchanter said:

 Those things in combination should get you off and running.

 

Thanks, I'll check it out when I have some time. 

2 hours ago, jgd said:

 

 sadly yes. Rudi is really nice but the medical trips are several thousands of $

 

There is also a claim that this group teaches one to be a conduit rather than a generator, so very few ever develop the ability to emit qi independent of the teacher. 

2 hours ago, damdao said:

https://authenticneigong.com

You can find threads in General Discussion, I think.

Very good teaching and methods, highly recommendable if you want to know how to build the dantian and do faqi.

 

Does any of this ever involve large amounts of cash for treatments, activation of dan tian, etc.? I remember the earlier qi emission craze on TDB, and it usually involved very large sums of cash at some point. 

3 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

What is the purpose of hara development or building a dantien?  I suspect that those who embrace these practices are aiming at something different from realization or awakening as it´s thought of in most Buddhist contexts.

 

There are several benefits: increased physical health, less need for food/sleep, mental calmness, less clinging, increased meditative stability, etc. It is not a matter of the dan tian per se but a healthy subtle energy system, of which the LDT is a part. However, in appears to me that if one cultivates wisdom, then the subtle body develops spontaneously. Some Buddhist schools are more direct or indirect depending. 

31 minutes ago, stirling said:

I think this practice has largely fallen by the wayside, in the West anyway.

 

I have gotten instructions from a Soto person that was very close to Damo's. And Meido Roshi teaches it, but his lineage also includes martial arts. He wrote a book with some instruction on it. 

 

https://www.shambhala.com/authors/g-n/meido-moore/hidden-zen.html

This is just the old "are we building it or filling it argument" that every system with subtle body practices has. From the article: 

 

Quote

You can develop your Dantian, but you do not have to build it from scratch, since you already have it!!

 

3 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

As far as I know, zen doesn't teach hand positions or the specific standing exercises that daoists use to construct a dantien.

 

Yet the hara development is tangible, and comes through years and years of abdominal breathing.

 

The hara has many of the properties associated with dantien, I.e. a magnetic quality on the mind, a reservoir of ki etc. 

 

I was noting in the Mark Rasmus thread about this also. Zen in my mind really starts at the root and then extends into the body, so I think this is a difference. 

Thanks, I appreciate the solid discussion. My primary practice is Buddhist, but I have an on-again, off-again relationship with Taiji and Taoist practices. The mechanics of my Taiji are coming together, so I was wondering a bit about the chemistry. 

 

It is interesting to read your POV because it sort of mirrors the Buddhist POV I am familiar with, but Daoists seem to go from body up and Buddhist practice from mind essence down IME. 

 

On 9/9/2025 at 1:16 PM, Krenx said:

So condensing and channeling all energy into the vital astral forcefully,  just creates a funnel and consolidation that is difficult to tame.

 

I've seen about 4 approaches in Buddhist and Daoist teachings over the years: 

 

1. Fixating practices. 

2. Non-fixating practices. Like Zen. 

3. Both. More of the Vajrayana approach. 

4. Neither. 

 

For me, the breath and attention both naturally sank into the lower part of the my body on its own over time doing normal meditation practice. In Damo's teaching, it is similar--- there is no forcing or forming. Rather, the breath and attention naturally settles into the dan tian region. I've also found there are channels and formations that seem to build off this on their own. 

 

I haven't heard of any forcible-type paths, but I do think some of the Daoist teachers tend to be more fixation oriented.  

 

On 9/9/2025 at 1:16 PM, Krenx said:

My recommendation along with many masters I know who been there done that, who are healthy, is train to open your body, let energy stream and fill up your whole body naturally. Various parts of your body like your dantian, ming men, upper back, spine will tend to store more qi naturally. There is no need to force more in. As you cultivate, blockages are released, and it gives space in your being to fill up with more qi on its own. Qi will fill up space on its own. And you use whatever VOLUME of chi is flowing through your system, relative to your skill, cultivation.

 

This seems wise and in line with most recommendations I am familiar with. 

 

On 9/9/2025 at 1:16 PM, Krenx said:

And practicing refining your mind quality, your yi, sharpen and still it, results in your needing to use LESS chi to get the job done. That is a sign of real progression. Having more and more chi is not really the main goal at the end of the day. You want to have a deep relationship with it instead. 

 

I think this is an issue with some Daoists--- the energy increases and it agitates the mental habits. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Welcome!

On 8/4/2025 at 8:28 AM, Krenx said:

although the development of energy is released into space outside the body,

 

Interesting that some years ago, there was a debate between Malaysian teachers, Sifu Yap and Sifu Wong Kiew Kit. Sifu Yap was big on releasing. 

 

On 8/4/2025 at 8:28 AM, Krenx said:

And it is specifically tied to their type dantian sinking training. 

 

Can you elaborate on this further? There is a similar focus in many Buddhist schools and many of those masters live a long time. Most of the stories I've heard about problems tend to be due to qi emission rather than dan tian cultivation. 

 

I don't know enough about Mark Rasmus, but I did follow some of his videos which had a profound impact. However, his online stuff is unorganized and his in person stuff requires a monthlong, $5,000 commitment. Does he have an in-between? 

 

 

 

It's not. 

Welcome!

On 9/7/2025 at 8:57 AM, silent thunder said:

When we encounter the ego in thinking, we are 'egoing' within awareness.

 

That's a good way to put it. English is very good at nouning everything. A few inner language shifts are always helpful--- referring to appearances or arisings instead of objects, etc. Egoing is a good addition.

 

Welcome!

1 minute ago, Sherman Krebbs said:

perhaps any such object is false, but not necessarily unusefull.  but, how does the changing and limited nature of it impact its falseness.  

 

Essence is not function. Something can be false (or magical if you prefer) and still function. For example, a dream hammer is useful in a dream, but not useful in the waking state (and vice versa). 

I will propose that anything which appears as a changing, limited object is false.

Welcome! Tags aren't necessary for posts and your message wasn't rude. 

Welcome!

17 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

So is mine. Shaolin. Supported by the abhidhamma, texts from tibetan buddhism,  and so on.

 

I'd be curious to hear more about how Buddhism is practiced from a Shaolin perspective. I think Buddhism is practiced from different angles in different traditions. I personally don't think one way is right or wrong.

 

3 hours ago, ralis said:

”There is actually a reason for that.” I probably know the reason, but enlighten us. 

 

Personally, I think the reason is that these practices require a lot of work and teacher supervision or they go wrong. 

 

On the other hand, I think the energy body stop develops anyway. 

 

I also think Westerners tend to "lower the bar" and miss out on a lot of possibility, but that might just be me. 

Welcome!