steve

Counterclockwise first for quite some time - hard to take my eyes off the very nicely drawn breasts! Looked away for a while, came back and it was clockwise. All the women where I'm working saw it clockwise and all the men, counterclockwise. Now I can flip it with a little patience.

That's an interesting and important comment, I think. When we open up, are we feeling everyone else's stuff? Lately, it seems to me that as we open up we are feeling ourselves and how we project our stuff on the our image of what's around us. To me, it's about me, not them...

Agreed

Nice demos! Everything is very well done. For the sake of discussion, I'll ask - can any of it really be called Wudang? In China, internal arts are often called Wudang Pai but in reality, none of them can be traced to Wudang, historically. Bagua originated in Hebei, Xingyi in Shaanxi, and Taiji in Chen village, based on available documentation. - Xingyiquan (Hsing I Chuan) originated (supposedly) in Shaanxi province and was modified in Hebei province. Those are the two major styles, though there are a few others. I'm not aware of any style that originated in Wudang. This demo looks more like Hebei style to me (although I could be wrong about that) and it's well done. - There are lots of Taijiquan forms called Wudang but none of them, to my limited knowledge, have ever been validated, unlike the Yang, Wu, Sun, and Chen forms which can be pretty reliably traced back to their origins in Chen village. The origins of Taijiquan associated with Wudang are much more legendary than traceable. - The jian form at the end of the Taiji video looks modern to me. One giveaway is the use of the modern wushu sword. Traditional jian were never that flexible. The modern sword is flexible because it is so light and lends itself to the modern, acrobatic, wu shu forms. Some people say it's flexible to show qi flow - baloney! A sword is made to cut and parry, not show qi flow.

The life force is thought to be linked to sexual energy/essence (jing). Daoist cultivation, in part, involves converting jing to qi then qi to shen then shen to wu. Most Daoist monks remain celibate to avoid "wasting" their sexual energy on reproduction and pleasure. They try to optimize their efforts at cultivation and sacrifice parenthood and indulging sexual desire. Some martial artists do the same while in serioius training. The majority of Daoists, however, do reproduce, have active sex lives, and are comfortable using sexual energy for purposes other than cultivation. It is well recognized that celibacy is not always healthy and is not always strictly practiced even by adepts and martial artists.

Mantra, Methinks you doth protest too much... You say that Max doesn't like titles, then what's up with Lama Dorje, a litany of masters, and the fact that he's mastered every spiritual discipline known to man? You say he doesn't like robes, what's up with the Chinese costume? You talk about him being a regular guy but then if the energy isn't just right in San Francisco he's going to metamorphosize or evolve into a spirt/dragon thing not to mention all the other superhuman things he talks about and tries to demonstrate in movies and photos? The inconsistencies are pervasive in everything we see and read about him. In a different thread someone recommended changing the name of this forum - I think that's a good idea. It needs to be called LamaDorjebums... It's really getting tiresome... It's very telling to notice the change in your demeanor (and his other students') when one person criticizes Max. Are you that insecure? If he really is everything you think he is why are you so sensitive to one persons criticism? These are rhetorical questions intended for your consideration, no reply is needed or solicited... I wish you and Max well. There is room for everyone on this beautiful planet.

Nope - good point!

Hi Kathryn, Being lost, confused, and frustrated is a good start. It means that you're not happy anymore with being asleep at the wheel and you're trying to wake up. I found it very tough to get much out of the standard works in the beginning like Laozi and Zhuangzi. There are some authors that can help you get a sense of what's going on in a more contemporary syntx. I resonate well with writings of Alan Watts, J Krishnamurti (wouldn't call himself Daoist but I would), Osho, and Raymond Smullyan (The Tao is Silent). Also, look into non-dualism and Advaita as they are grounded in the same basic concepts. Good luck, Steve

Hi cloud, Did you ever seek out Sailor Bob? I've never met him but from what I've seen and read he seems to be the kind of guy that would be worth talking to. Best, Steve

Hundun, I appreciate the honesty and candor of your post. I don't know you but you don't come across as someone with an axe to grind or of a vindictive nature. I didn't get the feeling that you were getting pleasure out of your criticism. Your experience is not surprising nor is the reaction of Max's supporters. Enlightenment is big business and gurus are a dime a dozen. Some are in it for the money, some for the gratification of helping others, self agrandissment, political stature, or all of the above. Either way it is a form of self-gratification and continues to reinforce their "I", their image of who they think they are or should be, based on their programming. The ones who are truly there are just there - no teaching, no selling, no seminars, no secrets, no methods or techniques, no transmissions. For them it is all the same and none of the snake oil has any meaning. The tricky and beautiful thing about enlightenment is that you can't buy or receive it, it's already there. It's just buried under the social/cultural programming. If Max was all he claims to be, he would know that, and wouldn't need to make movies of himself in archaic Chinese costume demonstrating superhuman powers.

This is an excellent question! How many teachers is it "balanced" to study with at one time? I think one can learn a lot from that question. What is it to be balanced in one's cultivation? Does one teaching offset the other? Are they saying different things? If so, which is correct? How do we know when our teachers are correct? Do we know anything about who it is that they are teaching??? The teaching part is very simple, it's the doing that's difficult and the teacher can "do" nothing for you. You can have as many teachers as feels right, it's all the same. One, two, twenty. They will each show you their way. They will each tell you that their way will take you somewhere where you want to go. You will follow their way for a while and then look for another, most likely. That's what we tend to do. The mind tells us that what we have and who we are is not enough. We need to make it better. We need to become something else. It will never stop. You will never become what you are looking for because whatever you or I become will still need to become something else. That's the nature of our minds, never to be satisfied. How many teachers are balanced to study with at one time? As many as it takes until you recognize that the teachers can no longer help and you've got to open the door and go through (and let go of) yourself. I'm still struggling with the door but I don't think more teachers or methods can really help me much at this point... it feels to me that what needs to happen is more of a letting go and less of a learning... As I read this post over it sounds very arrogant - I apologize for that but that's where my current (attempts at not) thinking is...

One of the most profound books I've read recently is To Be Human by J Krishnamurti. His ideas are a bit radical but very much consistent with Daoist philosophy and not restricted to any particular method, practice, or system.

Hagar, I've had a very similar experience. In my case, it started with having children. My connection to them heightened my emotional experience dramatically. Now it's more pervasive. It feels to me to be a natural progression. I guess we're returning to our nature. This would seem to be more connected with physical, sensory, and emotional experience than with analytical thought. My teacher also tells me it is a normal stage in the progression. In fact, I've been actively cultivating the experience of sensory and emotional reception/awareness as a way of disconnecting from the thought train. It has reduced my daily anxiety quite a bit and has helped me connect more closely in relationships.... Steve

The Living Force hides behind my thoughts. The thought processes were very helpful in problem solving and vital to survival and consequently selected by evolution but have achieved a level of supremacy in the organism that has some unwanted consequences (anxiety, distraction from life experience,...). Reading the works of philospophers, both living and dead, has helped to raise my awareness of this pattern. Their work has pointed me to the door that I must pass through alone to be reunited. There are many gurus and the like who claim to have the key, method, technique... I'm beginning to believe that this is a part of the problem. If we accept a method or a leader, we simply reinforce the illusion that "someone" is there searching. Letting go of the search still implies there is "someone" there to let go. Sometimes it finds itself, sometimes not. We'll see...

Not a prayer, spell, or mantra... just a question that I've been vocalizing/meditating on inspired by J Krishnamurti: Is it possible, with all the complexities of daily living, to be able to let go of the shadow of conflict?

Max is no more and no less God then the rest of us, despite what some may be led to believe. Careful Cam, you may need some help my friend. Despite what you or Max may say, Chris, I suspect that he considers himself to have just a bit more ability and potential then the rest of us mere humans... A few quotes on the Lama Thunderbolt site: "The lightning had actually fused his third eye open, allowing him to see energies beyond normal human vision, at all times." "He was recognized as a "tulku" or high level reincarnate." "Ralo Rimpoche of the Nyingma order of Tibetan Buddhism, gave him the title "Ngakpha Dorje" which identifies him as one who has the power to awaken dormant powers within." Following any guru or method ultimately takes one farther and farther from the truth. The truth is what remains when the thoughts and images of the mind fall away in the face of the experience of reality in the present moment. That cannot be taught, sold, or given, only experienced. "Dao ke dao fei chang dao, ming ke ming fei chang ming" Laozi "It is only when I do not know what God is that there is God." J Krishnamurti "I don't give a hoot for a sixth-century BC Buddha, let alone all the other claimants we have in our midst. They are a bunch of exploiters, thriving on the gullibility of the people. There is no power outside of man. Man has created God out of fear. So the problem is fear and not God." UG Krishnamurti

I just started the book. The first chapter is pretty scary stuff. Anyone read this and interested in commenting? I'll be happy to post again after i finish the book. It seems to be a pretty serious work.

I once went to a female sexuality/Daoism seminar hosted by Livia Kohn. She gave a really nice talk that emphasized the importance of the heart/middle dantian in the female, comparing it to the lower dantian to the male and so on and so forth but I couldn't summarize. She'd be a good resource, perhaps, for comparing the different paradigms.

What would an enlightened government look like? What does an enlightened individual look like? We need to start simple. An enlightened governement can only come from an enlightened society. An enlightened society would have very little, if any, need of being externally governed. What does China's governement look like from the perspective of the Dao? I can't speak for the Dao, but from my perspective they look like shit. There is none much worse on earth if you take into consideration human rights, corruption, and environmental exploitation (not that the USA is that much better IMO). In my limited experience, the government of Bhutan is most in accordance with the Dao. Some of the northern Europeans would be a far second (ie Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark)

Osho - Mohan Chandra Rajneesh: Enlightened mystic or corrupt con-man.... Perhaps a bit of both? Is there a difference? Does it matter? Let the games begin...

Ditto - I think he had some very serious psychopathology yet some of his writings (talks) were still truly insightful. I once worked at an inpatient psychiatric facility. One of the patients was a paranoid schizophrenic. Ironically, he was also a psychiatric nurse. When he was psychotic, he was extremely frightening - I never let him get between me and the door! When he cleared, he was a brilliant psych nurse and really was able to help alot of the other patients. It was fascinating to see the transition. When he was discharged, he asked me for my phone number - I really liked the guy but didn't give him my number... My point is that Osho may have been pathologic (whether clinical or criminal or both) yet many of his writings remain extremely helpful, at least to me, particularly with respect to understanding some of the classics, like Zhuangzi and Liezi.

That's probably as close to the truth as you can get on paper!

These are excellent questions! I'd highly recommend you consider looking into the work of Jiddu Krishnamurti. I'm currently reading "To Be Human." According to him, and many others of like opinion, there is no advantage to following anyone for very long. Then you are simply thinking like they think rather than awakening. It's like a door that a teacher can point you toward but you must open it and experience what's beyond. Krishnamurti implores you to "doubt, question everything that I say.." and "test everything in practice in your own life..". Another guy with similar ideas, though somewhat differently expressed, is UG Krishnamurti. Here's a link to a very good site filled with his works. Notably, all of his writings are freely downloadable and reprintable with no copyright concerns. That, in itself, is telling... http://www.ugkrishnamurti.org/index.html PS I don't think the two Krishnamurti's are related...

That is horrifying! The astrological basis for religion is fascinating (I've seen much of that before). The case for a 911 myth and a financial cabal working towards world domination aren't new but have never been presented as convincingly for me. The God Who Wasn't There is a very interesting film that uses some footage from Zietgeist - http://www.thegodmovie.com/index.php. It focuses solely on the religion piece. Thanks for posting that link - I will go the way of Swami Nirmalananda before I get the chip implanted! Revolution!!