steve

Extremely cool to see interest. I've read Taoist Yoga in a casual and relaxed way, certainly not meticulously. That would be as good a place to start as any. Here are a few options: 1. We could have a book club thread, give a start date for a give book and let it rip. When we've tired of discussing that one, go on to the next... OR... 2. We could have a "book club" sub-forum and in it, each book could be a different thread. That way the discussions could be ongoing on different books simultaneously. That way, as new people join, or read it, they could contribute. We could start with one (otherwise, it'll get a bit wild and crazy) and just add new threads, one at a time, but revisit the old ones as needed OR... 3. We could do #2 above but let people start as many book threads as they want, although that would end up being just like random posts about books. I'd vote for #2 most likey... What do you all think? Also, how to choose future books? I can see this getting interesting and competitive (no way! not us Daoists! ) Maybe people contribute suggestions and we choose randomly. Or post 5 options and vote. Or .... I'll pick 'em because it was my idea!!! Any other suggestions?

Excellent videos! Thanks for posting those. In keeping with the Advaita thread, here are two interesting videos related to Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, a very famous and beloved exponent of the method of "I Am". That first is biographical and includes some of his talks, the second is a meditation exercise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUyLIYVrd5U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrCWaHbWtKo

Here's a suggestion: As the technique was in the "kundalini" style and you're experience side effects - look up a local kundalini teacher. There are probably some in your area. Someone like that might have good advice. The grounding exercises described are definitely worthwhile and may be all you need. I believe that late LSD and similar reactions are more related to memories of the toxic/psychotic state induced by LSD and other similar agents. I don't think the actual drug has anywhere near that long of a half life in the system. One other consideration - I don't think it would be unreasonable to consider consultation with a mental health professional who is tuned in to meditation and that line of work if things get too uncomfortable or frightening. Any compassionate support helps you get over the crisis. Edit - Kundalini teachers in your area http://www.harijiwan.com/index.htm http://www.santamonicayoga.com/frameset.htm Here's a cool link that may or may not be helpful: http://www.meditationandpsychotherapy.org/faculty.html http://www.mindfulnessandpsychotherapy.org...yCofounders.asp - this last link looks very interesting I can't vouch for any of these people, just thought I'd do some simple search engine stuff and see if it helps.. Good luck!

Thanks very much for your reply. I practice Dao cultivation of the Kun Lun Xian Zong (崑崙仙蹤)sect (not to be confused with the Kunlun method that is popular on this forum lately). I look forward to hearing your input on the forum. Best, Steve

I agree with Fire Dragon - pushing or forcing energy into the head can be hazardous. I would suggest you stop your current practice. Consider looking for a teacher - I'm a believer that meditation practices tend to be more productive with supervision in the beginning. You will reach a point where you will no longer need supervision but with a practice like Kundalini it's particularly important.

It seems to me that this would be the tendency for a forum devoted to Daoism and related discussion...

Can you describe what your practice is?

Every now and then one of my kids (20 and 15 yo) will do something that reflects values I think are important. It makes me feel like my wife and I managed to guide them in the right direction and that makes me really happy...

Any interest in discussing Wudang lineages and martial training further? From my limited reading and discussions with my sifu it seems that there was considerable disruption in the early to mid 20th century such that most existing schools are re-creations or reconstructions rather than uninterrupted transmissions. Furthermore, most of the Wudang martial forms I see on the web have definite suggestions of modern wushu influence. Finally, the evidence that the three major internal arts were practiced on Wudang mountain before the modern area is also controversial and mostly popularized by Western writers and more recently, the Chinese government for tourism and neo-nationalism purposes. These are not assertions I'm making, just information I've been exposed to and I'd like to hear all perspectives that I can. No disrespect or offense intended - I'm just interested in learning what I can. Thanks, Steve

I thought the guy demonstrated excellent technical merit but what is it about these flexible, toy swords? I don't get that. Is it a modern wu shu thing?

My meditation sifu is always talking about how Dao cultivation increases one's creativity. I find it hard to tell because it's difficult to compare myself now to myself then and even more difficult to know if I would be any different from a creative perspective if I weren't practicing cultivation. Nevertheless, I will say this. I've been a guitarist since childhood, on and off, and in recent years I do feel more of a connection to my music and more expressive and confident in the communication part as well as in my improvisation. I would also say that my ability to read people, situations, and relationships has really change quite dramatically over the past 5-10 years, whether or not it is directly related to my cultivation practice. Very good question and I look forward to seeing others' experiences. Steve

I would agree with Taijiquan based on your description of what you're looking for although Xingyiquan and Baguazhang would be good choices as well. Here is the website of one of my taiji brothers in the UK - I don't know how close he is to you. He teaches Chen Pan Ling style taiji as well as some other arts (kung fu, Chinese wrestling, and sword stuff). Good luck! http://www.kuoshu.co.uk/ Best, Steve PS He is a very accomplished martial artist and an extremely nice guy - Robert Simpson

Cameron, In my current view, yours is the only important question. I believe that all paths to "enlightenment" ulitmately lead to this question. It is the central quetion of Advaita, Zen/Ch'an, and others. Read Sri Ramana Maharshi or Nisargadatta Maharaj - they are completely about using this question to achieve awakening. I just posted a blab about J Krishanmurti on the "Growth and Development" thread - his work is also all about this question of who is there... but he gets into it with a little different slant that appeals more to me. This is why no path leads to the truth. Or one could say all paths lead to the truth provided they lead to that question. This is also why all methods and all gurus ultimately have to be dropped. Sure, they are a natural part of the progression because anyone interested in looking for answers has to start somewhere. BUT... As long as you are on a path or following a guru, you continue to reinforce the illusion that there is someone there that is following. The path goes on and on. It gets more and more complex. You get little rewards that keep you going. In the long run, however, one must come to this question - who is it that is doing this meditation? who is it that is walking this path? Ultimately - it is no one. There is no one there. Keep looking - try to pin it down. You can't. It's like peeling an onion, layer after layer after layer, until nothing is left. The thing is, you have to try really, really hard and for a long period of time before you are utterly convinced of the reality of this statement. Otherwise it just sounds like bullshit and has no meaning or it sounds true but doesn't really affect you at a deep enough level. That is what koans are all about in Zen. It's what Zhuangzi talks about. It's what Advaita is about. When you feel it, you'll never be the same. Warning - we are really attached to our paths, gurus, and practices. Imagine waking up one day and knowing (not believing, knowing in your very core) that it's all 100% bullshit. Everything. Every practice, religion, belief system. It's all a creation of the mind. It's all a game, albeit very convincing. In fact, it's the creation of everyone's minds going back millenia. It's a scary thought. It's depressing. It's difficult to face. The "I" thought that watches all the others doesn't want to let go. It's been conditioned into us since birth and does a very good job at keep us alive and successful. Nevertheless, that is the fundamental hurdle. And it's something that requires constant vigilance for a long period of time - maybe for life. I don't know. That's my path right now... To be honest, everything I just said might be 100% bullshit. I really don't know anything. I have no credentials or proof. But I can say that it feels 100% right to me. So then the question comes up, why do anything? Why meditate? Why practice taiji and so on? Because it's fun, it feels good, and I like it, whoever I am....

Excellent post Hagar

I recommended him because of your post. Your comments about taoism, buddhism, the convergence of paths, the evils of religion... "putting yourself in a box that you can no longer see out of" - it really sounds like his ideas would resonate with you. I don't think I can explain it briefly but here's an attempt: His basic ideas revolve around the truth being an innate feature of mankind that cannot be found through any particular practice, method, or path. One of his most famous talks is "Truth is a pathless land..." Reading his talks had a particularly profound effect on my view of things (along with Osho, Watts, DeMello, and a handful of others). Here's a link to one of many websites about him: http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/ Wikipedia has an extensive biography of him but I'd suggest checking out what he had to say before being too biased one way or another by what has been said about him. I would recommend a book called To Be Human. It picks a variety of talks from different topics and time periods and has some explanatory stuff at the end that is useful. It was the first book of his that I read and I still remember reading a bit while riding on a bus to the airport in Seattle, sitting with my mouth hanging open in wonder, reading some more, thinking some more, it was really impressive stuff. Another good one is This Light in Oneself: True Meditation. Like Osho, he never wrote anything. He gave talks and people recorded and published them. Good luck and let me know what you think if you do check him out, Best, Steve

Curious phenomenon, isn't it? Doesn't surprise me a bit... this video doesn't impress me at all. I've yet to see a video of "qi power" that I thought was credible. It's not that I don't "believe" in qi - it's just that my definition is different. I don't believe in the video demos I've seen to date, including this one. I'm not trying to be negative at all - just stating an opinion. PS - this is beside Buddy's point but FYI there is nothing in Calamine lotion that affects that natural course of the healing process in poison ivy exposure, all it does is soothe the itching. The body heals with or without the Calamine. Could meditation speed up the process? I believe it can. I've been in the medical field for 18 years (including training, 24) and there's absolutely no question that the human mind plays an enormous role in patient outcomes with treatment. I see it every day. The greatest effect is on pain and disability but it goes beyond that as well... PSS - these are two of my favorite "qi power" videos...

Jesus clearly went against the Jewish establishment, Buddha abandoned the Hindu traditions and all other existing traditions that he tried - assuming our history is accurate. In fact, there are some pretty convincing arguments that they may never have existed or may have been much different than the picture history has painted - although that's for a different discussion. We'll certainly never know what they considered themselves to be with any accuracy. Either way, they were clearly rebels who blazed new trails and thought for themselves rather than following the existing methods and belief systems. Have you read Jiddu Krishnamurti? If not, I'd highly recommend him. To Be Human is a very good place to start. Life changing stuff... for me at least.

This deserves emphasis. Brief detour - It's a curious thing. When someone is out there speaking the truth, they general do not refer to themselves as a member of any particular group, system, belief,... Think of Jesus, Laozi, Zhuangzi, Buddha, J Krishnamurti, Ramana Maharshi, and so on. You can bet you ass Laozi and Zhuangzi would not have claimed to be an '-ist' of any sort. They don't identify with a group because they are thinking for themselves! They are rebels. They're going against the groups, the 'beliefs', the systems, the corruption, the institutionalization. Their followers, however, start a new group studying and honoring the brilliance of these rebels. Then they all go down the same old path - institutionalization, modification, dilution, corruption. It's inevitable. You must think for yourself. A teacher, group, system can only take you so far. If you follow someone else, how can you possibly find the truth? The truth has to be found in yourself. If you follow someone else all you can possibly learn is their truth - what works for them - their interpretation.

Very nice clips. I'm really impressed with Sun Zhi Jun. His footwork and body movement is incredible. I don't know about the Zhang Zhaodong clip - to me his stepping seems a little heavy and his concentration a bit inconsistent. Maybe it's the long grass and uneven ground but his demo left me a bit cool. It's also possible that it's just my lack of knowledge of him or his style. Any comments? I'm here to learn.

Howabouttao - Excellent questions. In my view there is nothing more important than healthy skepticism and nothing more dangerous than faith. I applaud and respect Buddy's stance as it is all too easy to begin to pretend to believe when everyone around is yelling 'don't you see it?' At the same time, I respect everyone who has experienced something, labels it qi and acts accordingly. Please continue to post tough questions. If certain member on the forum seem to get their dander up that's more about them than you. My experience with qi - When I started practicing taijiquan and xingyiquan combined with dao meditation, I began to "believe" in qi. I am able to experience my yi (intention) guiding the qi (a sense or awareness within the body) in the taiji form, xingyi forms, qigong, and most intensely during dao meditation. To me, qi appears to be an awareness of the physical being or an interaction of the consciousness with the physical being. I look at it more as a process, movement, or interaction than as some sort of stuff. It seems that practice can intensify this awareness. It is a perception that really doesn't seem to exist actively in conscious awareness unless trained. I think the definition of qi is what is at issue rather than the existence. People who practice dao meditation, taiji, qigong, and other disciplines are able to experience a conscious perception of the physical being that goes beyond the average Joe in everyday life. This perception can be useful for health and martial purposes. This is what I interpret as qi. It is the process of existence or perhaps life, depending on your semantic leaning. I have never experienced the more magical qualities of qi that people claim. Until I experience them, I will remain skeptical like a few others on this forum. Many of the amazing effects attributed to qi healing and manipulation can be easily explained by other means. Many people exploit others' beliefs in this area - spirituality is a hugely profitable business. "perhaps Chi is just a product of our imagination..." This is an interesting question. When I first started taiji and was trying to understand what I was supposed to be feeling I read a little book by Waysun Liao about taiji. It gave instructions for using the imagination to experience qi in the beginning and this worked for me. The real questions is not whether qi is a product of our imagination but - is anything NOT a product of our imagination? Everything you know and experience is percieved by your brain. In this sense (and perhaps a much larger sense which I won't get into at this moment) you create the universe. Sound does not exist without an eardrum and brain to convert air pressure variations into music, for example. So yes, qi is a product of our imagination, IMO.

What his sister cute?

The discussion regarding where roads lead to is particularly ironic ... All roads lead somewhere and require someone to travel them. Since there is nowhere to go and noone to go there, all roads ultimately lead away from what we're looking for. Just my view...

Whose goal?

This is getting interesting. I'm going to continue this detour as I think it may be instructive. I would prefer to say that people are too much in their thoughts, not their head. I think this is an important distinction. Also, this raises questions about the "head" - body relationship: Is sinking the qi in the head or the body? Is mindfullness just in the head? Obviously questions that are worthy of further discussion, IMO. Nevertheless, I agree with you 100% regarding the importance of a physical component to this questioner's problem, that's why I mentioned taiji. I also think there is great importance in a mental component (what causes the qi to sink?). Some of the greatest benefits of taiji, yoga, qigong, and other martial arts derive from the integration of the mental with the physical which helps get you out of your thoughts and into reality.

Committed to life Republicans; abortion More dead in Iraq sorry for the interjection of politics - hopefully this will not knock this great thread off track..