steve

Chi Dragon - I don't mean to be disrespectful but would like to make a point. Why should Laozi's opinion be any better than my own? After all, I am alive. I am a living, breathing manifestation of Dao. I reflect it in my ever action. Laozi is a corpse - long dead, if he ever lived. He is an image in our minds. We created him. Most modern scholars would argued that Laozi does not, in fact, refer to any single, historical individual. And if there was, the first line of his writings says - whatever we try to write about the Dao is NOT the Dao... So if you really listen to what Laozi says, you should close the book after reading the first line! So why look for authority in a book? Why not look in ourselves? When I first started practicing Dao cultivation, I asked my ShiFu if he could recommend an English translation of Dao De Jing. He said no. When I asked if that was because he only read the Chinese, he told me - "it's because I've never read it. My teacher taught me how to cultivate. So practice, don't waste too much time on books." Now, I'm not sure I believe that he's never read Dao De Jing but his point was loud and clear. Why so much concern about words? The words are just poor attempts to point to reality. All the words really do are divide us into tribes and distract us from living. You want a definition of Dao? Sit, close your eyes (or not) and breath. Anything else is ink on a page... Please take this as a constructive argument, not an attack.

Where's the kool-aid when we need it?

Wow... I am in awe of your strength. Thanks for your candor.

Interesting... This is certainly not cultivation, IMO, but entertainment. What are you looking for?

But that's the rub - illusion arises when perception and understanding are inaccurate. And since the mind is limited, they are very often, if not always, somewhat inaccurate. It's not the experience that is illusory - experience exists, regardless of the presence or absence of background substance. But I think Otis is referring to the fact that illusion arises as a consequence of misinterpretation.

Nice!

Some would say that happiness is the natural human condition. They would say that societal and cultural conditioning is what gets in the way of this. A variation on this theme is that we are not happy simply because we have been trained since childhood to believe that our happiness depends on others or things or accomplishments. Without the approval of our friends, bosses, parents, and so on... we cannot be happy. Similarly, disapproval robs us of our happiness. And why would this be? Because then we can be controlled and manipulated - enslaved. These people would say that no one and no thing truly has the power to make us unhappy unless we buy into this insanity. We get to choose. It is a very hard thing to see because our conditioning goes very deep. And I'm not going to say that it is necessarily true. But what if it is? What an amazing life it would be if no one had that sort of power over me. Beautiful video, thanks for posting it!

Manitou - I gave up the smoke... I echo your praise of deci belle's post. Beautiful advice for living an enriching life! And I love your use of 'enlightenment' as a lightening. Shrugging off the burden of the search, the work, climbing the path. Seeing through the addiction with becoming something else. Liberation from the yoke of societal and cultural conditioning. CowTao - Thanks for the link. If it's ever not OK with me, I hope you'll tell me to get over myself and F-off (in a non-insulting way of course... )

Western medical perspective: If you are relatively young (let's say 40's or less), the chance of you having a torn tendon is very small without significant injury. Older - it's very common to have some degenerative tearing of the rotator cuff tendons or the biceps. The clicking you're feeling could be some inflammed tissue that lines the subacromial bursa rubbing between the undersurface of the acromion and the rotator cuff tendons. This is the most likely explanation by far. Also possible that your shoulder could be unstable due to muscle weakness, causing it to slide partially in and out of concentric alignment between the humerus and glenoid - this is called subluxation. I'm pretty sure your shoulder joint is not dislocated or dislocating. Tendons and muscles around the shoulder generally do not dislocate. It can happen on rare occasion but usually associated with a lot of pain and trauma. An accurate diagnosis can generally be made by a doc who treats a lot of shoulder problems (orthopaedist who specializes in the shoulder for example). MRI is very helpful in looking for tears - probably 95% accuracy in a good scanner read by the right person. Caution - a lot of these specialists are fairly quick to recommend surgery. If you have a small, partial thickness tear - no need to rush into surgery. Physical therapy and other modalities (acupuncture, TCM, anti-inflammatories, chiropractic, and so on) are usually enough but it's slow - as much as 4-6 months depending on the severity of the tear. If you have a large, full thickness tear of the rotator cuff - that should be fixed as there's good data to show that people who do not have it repaired after serious shoulder issues years later. If you just have some inflammation (by far the most likely), most folks will improve within 6-8 weeks of PT and whatever other treatment they choose. Eastern medical perspective: Out of my league! Good luck! Edit - I really like Otis' approach

It sounds a bit perverse to me... Hmmm, is it better for a human adult to drink cow's milk that comes from a cow or human's milk that comes from a cow? I think I know what my Jain brothers and sisters would say!

Do you think it would also help to practice Beng Quan to strengthen the liver for those of us who practice Xingyiquan? Beng is Wood and known as crushing. I've practice Xingyiquan for a long time but never with the intent of addressing organ imbalances. Do you have any experience in this?

My (opposite) argument: I disagree. The "system" is a toxic environment, that is designed by profiteers and politicians to rob your power. Because it is rotten to the core, no growth can take place there, and one must escape into solitude (preferably into some non-American, non-European country) and find a guru, as soon as possible. Only through solitude and/or an environment of great peace, can we find ourselves and achieve liberation. (note: this exercise is so very ) Now what happens?

I just did it in the Dao vs Brahman thread! And after thinking my thoughts and doing some (very minimal) research, I think I believe my argument!

I'll take the opposite position and say that Dao and Brahman are conceptually very similar. In my view (as of 8:39pm today), both the Indians and Chinese are saying that there is something subtle and profound behind the veil. Something invisible, infinite, beyond time, and beyond human thought or conceptualization, that is the foundation of existence. This something is what we come from and return to. It is everything we are and everything we are not but it is subtle and elusive. It can't be named, held, seen, heard, felt, or tasted but, at the same time, it can be all of those things because it is us and everything around us. It is what we are when we are not us but also when we are us, we just don't recognize it as such unless we are awake to it. To be a sage is to live in accordance with Dao (Wu Wei) and to be liberated is to recognize one's true nature as Atman/Brahman. Both the Indians and the Chinese brought their respective, unique cultural biases and attitudes towards describing the indescribable. The Chinese, being the practical minded people they are, emphasized process over spirit and so used a word that has the quality of a verb, Dao. The Indians, tending toward the spiritual, describe Brahman more in terms of transcendent spirit. I would say that both were pointing to the fundamental nature of reality when they coined the terms Dao and Brahman.

Whether or not to use entheogens depends a lot on what you are looking for. If you are looking for new experiences, shaking up your sense of reality, breaking down some conventional thought processes and that sort of thing, entheogens are very effective. For some people, these sorts of experiences are helpful, maybe even necessary, to get them pointed in a spiritual direction. I'm not convinced that they really produce meaningful spiritual growth for most who use them. On the other hand, if you are looking for the truth - spirituality, the nature of our being and existence. I don't think entheogens are very helpful. They will shake your tree and loosen some nuts and bolts that society and culture has tightened in your head. But it is a very different thing to approach truth and reality. A sober mind and body is as close as you can ever get to your true nature, the way you have grown out of this world. To pollute it with chemicals or entheogens, even natural ones, takes you farther away, rather than closer to, the truth. To approach truth you simply need to study yourself. No need for anything external. What are you thinking? What is the nature of thought? How do you behave? Where does that response come from? What do you feel? How do you relate to others and the environment? This is the mundane, boring, banal, but absolutely essential work that is needed to walk the spiritual path as far as I'm concerned. For some folks, entheogens are helpful in the beginning. For others, entheogens are highly toxic and I've seen irreversible psychosis in two friends as a result. For many, they become more entertainment than anything else. And it is very important to recognize that a lot of the insights we have while intoxicated are very misleading. Just my $.02

I think that the only reason to do it would be for YOU, not for them, and not for the relationship. Perhaps, there is some residual pain, or conflict, or blockage in you that could be released as a result. Maybe not. But I think it is about you, not them.

I appreciate that. I think you are correct and I think it would be valuable for me. I am going to give more serious consideration to addressing this with them while they are still relatively young and healthy. Did you approach your folks separately or together?

From the Western medicine perspective, this could also be a symptom of nerve root irritation in the cervical spine. Depending on age and genetics, this can be from narrowing of the neural foramen where the nerve root exits the spine. In a younger person without degenerative narrowing yet, it may be some bulging or inflammation of the cervical disc. This will often respond to stretches as mentioned earlier - one particularly good one is to sit or stand erect. Retract your chin straight back, not up or down, and hold for 10 seconds. Relax and repeat frequently. If you are doing it correctly you may feel tightness, stretching in the strap muscles at the front and sides of the neck. Also gentle stretch to the sides and forward are good. Flexing back (tilting the chin up) can be irritating.

I've struggled with anger, still do. As everyone has mentioned, there are reasons. Often lots of them. Our lives are filled with causes for anger. I think that anger can become a habit after a while. It can feel safer than things like vulnerability, shame, fear, and so on. But, ironically, we still repress it and it makes us sick. When it's is an appropriate reaction to a threat, it is healthy. When it becomes habitual, not so much. There may initially be very valid reasons but one concern is that you don't know how to express the anger. Expressing anger is a social taboo and repressing it is very unhealthy. It's been my experience that most people suffering from chronic pain are physically manifesting repressed anger and rage. Not a good place to be. I would echo everyone else in suggesting that you look carefully at the anger. You can start by feeling it in your body. Don't fight it but don't necessarily act impulsively either. Be with it, feel it, don't push it away too quickly, learn to make room for it. When you get more comfortable feeling the anger and can be with it for a while, you may be able to see what's under it. Anger is almost always an indication of something else, like others have mentioned, it's reactive and protective - is there fear there? frustration? envy? discomfort with vulnerability? shame? And these things are not usually straight forward. There may be layers of things. Now I don't really mean to say that you have to analyze it all. And the other thing is, you can't necessarily make those feelings go away. But I think that awareness of the anger, becoming more comfortable with, and accepting the feelings that it stems from are very important. It's the repression and frustration that lead to the anger and rage. When you can see the source, and accept that the feelings are natural - every one of us deals with similar negative feelings - then they begin to lose power over you. As long as they are hidden, you're helpless. It's definitely worth the effort. It can change your life. Good luck!

Ironically, waking up to this and working on my relationship with my kids has not translated too well to my parents. I don't feel nearly the drive to improve the relationship with my folks that I do with my kids (it's not that bad but could be a lot better). Similarly, if I didn't take the initiative with my kids, I don't know that they would make the effort...

I guess I responded because your post struck a chord with me. When my kids were young, I worked very hard, very long hours, and did the best I could to be a good father, at least that's what I thought at the time. One day, I looked back and saw it very differently. I could see how I had been too selfish, distant, and even mean and demanding. I was able to see my behavior as if I were someone else. I could see the negative impact it had on them and our relationship. I could see my own father in my actions (he had been very distant and tough) and it hit me like a ton of bricks - enormous guilt and regret. It was the truth that has hurt me the most to date. The good news is that I woke up. And I recognize that I did the best I could with the tools I had at the time and, most importantly, that it's never too late to work on relationships. So for the past several years I've worked very hard at improving my relationships with my kids and it has paid off.

Stimulated by another thread, I thought it might be interesting to see the breakdown of our spiritual practices. How many have always been committed to one path vs multiple. If this is a BTDT poll... sorry. I didn't see anything when I searched.

This is so true!

I agree Aaron. This is very painful to recognize. I had a crisis around the time of the Rwandan and Yugoslavian genocides. It's what led me to begin a spiritual investigation. Even more painful is when you see the capacity within yourself for causing another's pain. But recognizing these things is good. Once you see the capacity for cruelty, you have the opportunity to do good instead. You get to choose. I don't think that the innocence that you refer to can ever, or should ever, be recovered. I do think we can recover a childlike fascination with the world and our lives and that is extremely enriching. The innocence that allows us to believe that such human cruelty does not exist is an ignorance and it is dangerous. I do think that we can recognize our common humanity and develop a very deep capacity for love and compassion, however, and this goes a long way to balancing the pain and suffering as Marble alluded to.