steve

Excellent reference. Thanks Dwai!

You are mistaken. You would understand much more clearly if you were to practice Daoist alchemy. You are trying to force your Qi Gong priniciples onto a Daoist alchemical practice. They are different. So do you think that the Dao encompasses all things except Jing, Qi, and Shen? In fact, in some of the alchemical writings and practices you will see: Jing --> Qi --> Shen --> Wu I've seen some calligraphy that also includes Dao to that formula after Wu. You really do need to begin to practice alchemy with a teacher if you hope to understand any of this. Books don't cut it, no matter how old or what language. This is critical to understand. It is like trying to learn Tai Ji Quan from reading the classics if you have never seen Tai Ji Quan. Until you have direct personal experience of the alchemical processes under the guidance of a credible teacher, you really don't have a frame of reference from which to understand.

~~~~~~~~Mod Team~~~~~~~~~ Two consecutive topics on Pyramids merged ~~~~~~~Mod Team Out~~~~~~~~

Or distinguished... I think one sticky point is how we define those terms in English and how the terms are used and defined in Sanskrit. And as you point out, the other issue is taking the time to actually experience unpolluted awareness.

Couldn't agree with you more on all points. It is an unfortunate fact that some of us are so attached to a particular point of view that we feel obligated to denigrate or correct others'. I think that's a natural stage in spiritual growth and development. We think we understand and have the answer and we want to share it with others. Or we are threatened by alternative points of view so we get defensive. Lots of reasons probably. There seems to be some lessening of that lately on this forum though I don't doubt it will periodically resurface. One way to approach this (with or without a dedicated sub-forum) would be for the OP to explicitly state - 'I'd like this thread to focus on Advaita Vedanta and while brief comments regarding other traditions are always welcome for comparison, I would like us to stay on topic, please.' Also, chime in if someone's getting too off course and let them know to please stay on topic or consider starting a new thread. The other thing we can do is, if you see a the topic getting derailed, feel free to report it to the mods and we can split it off into a new thread and keep the original on track. Obviously, we'd rather the participants take care of it without our intervention but that's always a back up plan. I spent many months practicing a "who am I" type of inquiry, simply based on reading Ramana and Nisagardatta and some related materials, with amazing benefits but I'll admit that I'm very ignorant regarding the Vedanta literature (Vedas and Upanishads) and orthodoxy and would love to learn more. So if you are knowledgeable in the area (which it sounds like you are), please teach me something!

Bliss vs Awareness: Are the two really so different? I also voted 'other' becuase I'm not sure there is a "purpose" anymore.

I would very much enjoy more non-dual discussion and more yogic discussion. I'm presently working through an 18 lecture course on Patanjali that's available for free online. That said, I've not seen so much non-duality, Vedanta, and Yoga discussion and wonder if it really warrants one or two additional sub-forums. It can get tricky to divide things up: Vedanta and Yoga are both orthodox schools of Hinduism - Yoga is more experiential and Vedanta more mystical (along with Samkhya, the philosophical side of Yoga and a few others I can't recall). Buddhism grew out of Hinduism and Mahayana is a major branch of Buddhism. Non-dual philosophy is basically a Western face of Vedanta stripped of the Hindu components. I think Sean's suggestion makes the most sense but my only concern is dividing discussions up to the point that the general discussion gets anemic.

Hi Cam, Nice of you to give us an update. Good luck in your studies. Best

Dear Mal, It's been a pleasure to interact with you over the past several years on this board. You've always been fair, balanced, and civil, even in the face of enormous pressure and ingratitude. I would like to offer you my personal thanks for working so hard to help out here. I'd also like to thank you for helping to show me some of the ropes in my very short time here as a moderator. I support you in whatever choice you make regarding your participation here moving forward. I think you have an enormous amount to offer as a member and as a moderator so whatever you decide, I hope you hang around as an active contributor. Best wishes,

Is silence still a sound if there is no ear not to hear?

Is there anything that you enjoy without feeling guilty? Any simple pleasures? A good book, a movie, food, nature? If not, what is preventing the enjoyment of simple pleasure? Simple pleasure are our gift which makes life delightful. Pain and suffering are our gift that gives rise to growth and change. The way you describe what you are feeling suggests that you are the one who is awake and the rest of the world is sleeping. You have identified the fact that material goods and experiences are banal, mundane, and nothing compared to communion with the spiritual. But it sounds like you feel stuck in a place where the material is not satisfying and the spiritual is outside your grasp. Tough place to be. Forgive me if I'm misreading you. I think this is a sign of awakening of "higher spiritual faculties" as you call them. It is a mistake to think that such an awakening is painless, beautiful, ecstatic. It can be those things but it usually starts with great pain and suffering. Change and insight come from pain and suffering and failure. Don't fight those feelings but let them simply be there and continue on. See if you can identify the source of those feelings. What is at the root of it? This is why I mentioned values - what do you value deep down? It may take a while to figure that out but I think that's a good place to start. You need to look inside yourself. You will not find answers or help outside. All of the great spiritual traditions lead inside, be it through prayer, mantras, sacrifice, meditation, whatever. You need to look inside and see what you value deeply and see what it is about your choices in life that are causing conflict and pain. At least, that's one approach that I think could help.

This is an excellent point, but "many people"? Who does have a true self and what is that exactly? Don't we all wear masks? If not, I suggest that it's just a lack of awareness. We are nursed and raised on the drugs of acceptance and approval, from childhood, through school, work, relationships... It never ends until we see through it. Even if we are not trying to be what someone else wants us to be, aren't we trying to be what we think we should be? And where does that come from?

A similar way to express that is to look at our core values and see if our choices in life are helping or hindering our ability to live in accordance with those values.

Another approach is to actively practice kindness and friendliness. At first it's really difficult. Over time it becomes easier. As you begin to get good at it, you begin to feel good about it. You see the surprise, pleasure, and appreciation in the faces of others. It can really be transformative.

Excellent approach - Wu Wei

Hi Stig, I sincerely appreciate your post. I hope the other stuff in your life is nothing too serious. From my perspective our friendship has not been irreparably damaged. I hope you feel the same. Be well,

I would recommend that you start by developing a daily meditation practice, if you haven't already. For each hour you meditate, you probably can decrease your sleep requirements by twice that. Over time, you gradually need less and less sleep. There are sleep and lying down practices which are advanced. That's something you need to learn from a credible teacher after developing skill in more basic exercises.

To paraphrase three insightful people: Osho - True religion is an individual's search for the nature of their being, everything else is politics Jiddu Krishnamurti - The truth is a pathless land Anthony DeMello - Awareness, awareness, awareness Nice post Aaron. I tend to think that there is a point at which one realizes that there is no need for a guru or guidance, that it is a hinderance, in fact. And yet, nearly every person who attains that insight has made use of some sort of guidance leading up to that point. Would they have ever reached that level of insight without the guidance? I don't know the answer. Sri Ramana Maharshi reportedly attained liberation at age 16 but even he was born into a Brahmin family with firm roots in orthodox Hinduism. He had relatively little religious training or interest, however, until his father's death, when he seemed to undergo a dramatic ascent to liberation. He seems to be an example of your assertion but such examples seem few and far between. On the other hand, the number of adepts who do practice and train and study in a variety of traditions seem to fail much more commonly than succeed in achieving anything that might be called true liberation.

For sake of argument, modding usually has little to do with subject matter and more to do with presentation. It might be better to allow the 'real' Buddhists to have the freedom to participate without needing to moderate. The current team, I think, is sufficiently unbiased to handle it. That said, I don't mean to say that I am opposed to adding to the team, in fact, I can think of a name or two...

Very good point - I'd probably keep it in "general." Otherwise, it looks like we're suggesting Buddhism falls within the general category of Daoism - that might not be a popular message.

Stig - I'll respond to this and then I hope to let it go and disengage. I respect your efforts to try and improve the board. I would even have no objection to your plan for moderation if that was the way Sean wanted to take things. When Scotty was suspended, I felt that you exploited that situation to try and undermine us as moderators. I took issue with that and sent this personal message: I sent that message from the heart. I was angry and disappointed that you were stirring the pot rather than trying to smooth it out so I sent you the message partly in anger, partly with concern, partly as a friend, partly as a mod, I just wrote it and sent it. I do speak harshly to friends when I'm upset, in fact I would not speak as directly to a stranger. I told no one else until after the fact when I thought the other mods should know that I reached out to you. In terms of what capacity I was in when I sent that, I am just me - part member, part moderator (very small part, just starting), part niceguy, part asshole, and lots of other parts. Did that message come from Stevemod, Steveniceguy, Steveasshole, or Stevemember? I can't separate all that - it was just from me. I didn't cry to the board or the mods but I was a bit taken aback and a bit offended when you posted that message and then I let it go. I honestly felt that your "agenda" trumped our friendship at the time so I commented the way I did. Perhaps I was wrong. As is usual with such situations it escalated from there. I can understand that you also were taken aback and offended by my PM as well as my follow up posts, and yet I hope you can let it go as well. To whatever extent I hurt you, I am genuinely sorry for that and hope we can put this behind us. Everything I did and said was genuine and in good faith as is this: I'm ready to move on. Be well.

Glad to hear this Mal. At first, I was ambivalent. Now, after seeing how well the Taoist Discussion forum is working I am all in favor of trying a Buddhist Discussion forum and I'm excited to see how it works out. I do struggle to follow some of the more esoteric discussions but my life has been enriched by some Buddhist practices (some aspects of the eightfold path), so I'm looking forward to learning more.

I frequently do forward bends where I let my knees bend a bit to take the tension off the hamstrings and fully flex and stretch the lower lumber/lumbosacral region. I then go back and really stretch out the hamstrings, then combine both. Then side to side whips to continue to loosen the lumbosacral region rotationally.

Such an important point. Buddhism for me is completely experiential, not unlike Daoist meditative practices. To transform Buddhism to an analytical and intellectual exercise may be appealing and even addictive in a way, but it does not seem to be the original intention and, at least in my life, that is not where the value is. What is artificial, IMO, is to use words and concepts to try and explain the nature of Reality. Words and concepts are too limited for this. Buddhism, IMO, is a path to walk, a way to be, not an explanation for how things are. Putting into practice the principles has transformed my life, my work, my relationships. It's made me a better human being and has made this existence less painful. Some concrete examples: - After years of being frustrated with my job, I came to realize that I truly am blessed with "right" livelihood and it was transformative - I actively attempt to practice other aspects of the eightfold path ( right speech, concentration, mindfulness, action) and, when I am successful in doing so, I encounter less confrontation and invariably feel better about how I chose to act But I will qualify all this by stating unequivocally that I do not consider myself a Buddhist (or any other -ist, for that matter). I study a variety of things and I've found a great deal of common ground in multiple spiritual traditions on which to build my own understanding.