Apech

with natural ease... an unnatural disease infected my ass. (I feel this may be an all too common problem these days )

Hello knowledgeable ones, I have been reading Eva Wong's "Cultivating Stillness" over the Xmas/New Year and am interested in the diagram (Fig. 1 in the book) - version attached below. I wondered if anyone knew of any source material which deals with this diagram in greater depth - online or in print. Thanks. A7.

swiftly the hawk flies... right into my living room drink beer watch TV.

'neath the empty sky.. is some empty atmosphere breath and nitrogen.

XYZ dollars! What happened to numbers - do we have to count in letters now? Or have I fried all my synapses with a burst of chi?

I like to balance left and right and get the benefits of both.

sleep is my coffin and waking is my arm chair watch the world go by.

Is this a crossover from the stronger erections thread?

Thanks for timing it for the early evening it'll give me time to prepare my hot chocolate drink.

Having read this thread about the effect on people's computers I have decided I would like to apply to be banned - how does one go about it - is there an application form to complete?

Thanks. I've found limited material. But I have been able to confirm that Wiki was far too generous with the dates of Zhou which are given elsewhere as 770BC making it much later. I realise its unreliable as a source (unless you know who posted) but I have done some work on some of the Egyptian stuff so I knew those dates were more or less ok. One thing I can agree wholeheartedly about is the distortion of archeology by the archeologist - especially 19 century and early 20 century - who were very prone to project their own theories and prejudices on the evidence. This is why I always work with source material triangulated (where possible) with verifiable evidence. Putative mythological origins are fine if understood to be what they are but I don't like to mix these with hard evidence like properly dated artifacts and so on. I also agree that historical views based on Europe and the Middle East are slanted. I think that from the very earliest times mankind has had a very broad lines of communication and carried with it a wisdom about nature/reality and so on. Anything seen from this perspective would challenge the orthodox view of the history of mankind.

Wong says that the Ho-to revealed itself through a pattern on a horse to Fu-hsi. Lo-shu on the shell of a tortoise to Emperor Yu - but does not give a date for either event. I realise Fu-hsi was supposed to have lived 6000 years earlier but if so are there examples of the diagrams from this period? I'm interested in these burial sites you mention - do you mean Banpo? If not can you give me any names? Thanks.

winter crows that sing I see black flags in the wind in a bleak chorus.

Findlay's been banned! Why? I don't see that Drew's that far out of line really. He was probably in full lotus and giving people orgasms at the time and therefore not responsible for his own actions. Its annoying when people try to spam but its really obvious as well. Caveat emptor and all that.

wind in deep winter many helpings of bean soup silent but deadly.

Check your neck posture and maybe get some massage.

JK, Thank you for your kind offer but the demands of the rest of my life would prevent me traveling to China. I didn't realise that the book was intended as a 'Rosetta Stone' and I would say if so, it is only partly successful, although it is a very interesting book - hence my original question. All I was after was a bit more background and people have been most helpful. I don't really follow your point about schools. I didn't go to school in the US although I did spend some time there when I was younger. I don't think I would struggle to follow the 186 rules though - except perhaps the one about keeping warm in winter and cool in summer, we have the coldest winter for 60 years here although signs of a thaw today! A7.

I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. The oldest extended corpus of written religious writing in the world is the Egyptian Pyramid Texts (~2300/2400 BC) of King Unas (or Wenis). In these texts are ideas which are clearly older and given how developed they were when first written and that they come towards the end of the pyramid building age must stretch back at least to around 3000 BC. The Four Sons of Horus as a) guardian spirits of the major organs of the body, b ) four aspects of the construction of the cosmos and c) the four rudders of heaven are the antecedents of the what was later to be incorporated into Babylonian/Hellenistic zodiacs and so on which led to the four beasts and the four elements. In other words it was a consistent theme in the tradition of thinking which came from the ancient world through places like Alexandria and was preserved in traditions such as western alchemy and Hermeticism. Every valid system of thought/symbolism of this kind is developed in a way which internally self consistent. They are models which allow us to reflect on the nature of reality. Where problems emerge is when trying to read across from system to system - this is because each 'element' in each system makes sense in the context of that system. The idea of 'metal' as an element or 'stage of change' did not exist as an explicitly stated function in the west and so it was not the case that it was dropped, left out or forgotten. Yep ... I think that's an interesting analysis.

Sorry no. The Western Four Element system has its origins in Egypt and the Four Sons of Horus later developed by influence from Mesopotamia and then Greek thought. I'm not saying no influence from Silk Route but that was later and Alexandria was only constructed towards the end of the history of Egypt. They didn't lose metal it was never an element. There are correspondencies between the two systems but you can't read across like that. One interesting comparison though is where earth is placed centrally. In Western Hermetics the substance produced by the perfect harmony of the Four Elements is the Philosophers Stones (secret of immortality amongst other things).

quite like clouds really... but hate that bastard called fog... Mist? Not forgotten.

A snowflake perhaps? And an icicle or two? Frozen things are free.

First of all - I am grateful for Taomeow and Stig for spending time on this discussion. I have learned a lot already. Obviously there are specific arrangements of both the 'elements' = 'stages of change' and of the trigrams which have specific applications. For instance the Earlier Heaven and Later Heaven pa-k'ua. If anyone is interested the book which I quoted originally "Cultivating Stillness" has diagrams showing the transformation of the trigrams from Earlier to Later Heaven ... heaven to fire and earth to water and so on. Obviously also, the development of understanding of the process of change is key. The subject matter is 'how does a non-dual source through a process of interaction of its own inherent qualities generate an apparently dual world' - or that's how I would put it. In terms of my original question - this is about reading the Wuji diagram from top down - the generation cycle of the 10,000 things. The way I explain this to myself is that as a being in this world and yet of a spiritual nature I deal both with the inner truth of the nature of spirit/the absolute/Tao and also with the (what I would call) devolved or perhaps evolved world. This world has qualities such as fire and water which exhibit themselves in cycles of change and development. However what I am more interested in is the internal alchemy route of bottom to top. And specifically the part of the diagram which shows the 'elements' arranged as they are. I am thinking here that by understanding the function of the five within myself an bringing them to a state of harmony then what arises is a state of transformational stillness. This is indicated by placing earth in the centre. Any thoughts?

be 'low' like water... reflect light like mercury here there is thunder.

Found it! Huang ting Apparently it is as elusive as you described: "The first problem associated with Huang Ting, however, is locating it - tucked away as it is in a less-trafficked fourth-floor corner of The Central, a maze-like building with a layout that is guaranteed to confound first-time visitors. Once you get there, however, the restaurant does offer pleasant views of the Singapore River and Clarke Quay." That's very mysterious! Can you give clues a la Da Vinci? (Sorry about above posts - feeling rather flippant, I think its the cold weather seeping in.) Is it not the case that one could postulate any of elements as the beginning of cycle as long as you are clear about what you are doing and what it signifies? In the Wuji diagram layout I think the central harmonizing position of the earth is the whole point given the nature of the progression of the alchemical process. This would be because it is dealing with how the individual mind/perspective is involved in the process.