Apech

Well you've started 73 topics so far and apart from one on Eminem being 'sick' they all seem to be more or less on the same theme. You can see that Ralis and Marblehead have great stamina in challenging your point of view but that's about the only positive conclusion one can make. I have defended your right to hold these ideas in the face of some hostility in the past but the reason they got moved to off topic was the endless repeating of similar themes. How about just one thread on this?

I4L, This is getting tiresome ... I know its off topic but how many threads like this are we going to get? A. (not as mod but just me)

Good point ... many of the threads on Taoist Discussion are about whatever comes into people's heads or catches their interest. There's always Off Topic of course but a lot of people don't seem to ever look there. I like the random nature of some of the threads and also the way the discussion ranges about ... one of the best things about TTBs. Maybe since the specialist sub-forums are based round texts like TTC we could have something on certain sutras and teachings ... e.g. Diamond Sutra, mind training, abhidharma ????? That could work I think but someone would have to organize it.

He got you there Marbles!

Since you ask I don't think the physical world is limited ... the limits are in our minds and expectations about what is possible.

Clearly its up to you how you approach this ... supposing you are going to study it all. If you are you need to start with why for instance three yang lines is sky/heaven i.e. what energy/power in nature it is an image of. Why lake? What is meant by lake ... what quality of lake is being alluded to ... etc. rather than assuming you already know what sky, lake , thunder and so on are. Its hard to explain but try to let the text speak to you without preconceptions. Your questions are good .. since you ask them you could get to an answer I think. Sorry if this sounds either vague or mysterious but its late here and I'm going to bed now ...

I don't pretend to understand the I Ching properly ... although I do consult it from time to time. To me it is interesting on all sorts of levels. If you accept that energy has a basic polarity (yin/Yang) ... then you can look at how complex levels of reality can develop from the interaction of this duality ... from the pairs, trigrams to the hexagrams ... most of the Taoist alchemical texts seem to draw on symbolism from the I Ching so if you are interested in cultivation then its probably a great help if not essential to have a basic knowledge of it. But I guess if you feel no connection to it ... then give it a miss ... there are other things to do.

Either 6000 or 60,000,000 depending on philosophy?

If you mean by superstition the original sense of 'standing above' then I suppose religions are superstitious in that they suggest better ways of being. However the modern use of this word is about imputing a completely arbitrary relation between a cause and an effect. I am not a religious person in the usual sense and I don't have much time for priests or popes (mullahs?) etc because the try to wrap up the truth in some kind of package. But I would say the core spiritual values of most religions are valid ... i.e you can be a better person, live a better life ,,, be kinder, more loving and so on ... this is not survival ... its about being free to express yourself in a genuine way. Does nature or the world have this purpose? Possibly not in itself ... but then on what does nature depend?

*** Mod Message *** I am moving this to Off Topic where other similar threads reside. An open plea to I4L ... one thread only please on your anti-Darwinism --- we do not need so many. Thank you. Apech for Mod Team **** Message ends ****

Your example with the sticks in the fire sounds to me more like superstition than spirituality. If you impute a relation between an action and a result which doesn't exist then I would call this superstition. Spirituality on the other hand suggests real relationships between events and results beyond that which is immediately apparent or perhaps beyond the mundane. To suggest that life is all about survival seems to beg the question - survive for what? Just to exist? Our efforts to understand and become wiser or to develop Te are not just so that we can exist - but so that we can live in a better way. We don't have to explain if or why the universe may want us to become wiser or more sage like but if we take up the Taoist way then we automatically accept that somehow this is the way. Life stops being just about surviving to the next meal but about something greater and better. We don't have to anthropomorphize nature to say this... in fact I don't think we even have to say why it is so ... its part of mystery ...maybe.

Doctor smockter doesn't he have enough blood of his own that he wants to take yours?

Pies, cakes and biscuits ... the answer to everything!

Because of the human condition the dark night is necessary - otherwise we would never change or make those transitions which are needed for development. I don't think there is a short cut or a panacea ... it just has to be ... which I suppose is reassuring in a way.

I have noticed recently that practically everyone I hear about is either depressed or on medication for depression. World tiredness I think.

If the purpose of life is to survive and human's are part of nature ... which they are as it is arrogant to think otherwise ... then what part of survival is served by the development of Taoism?

Talk about missing the point!

I thought it was obvious why she/he was permanently banned from the link you provided. We don't delete old posts of banned members. If you guys want to fight about Master Wang Liping's teachings or whatever please do it somewhere else. Thanks Apech

I'll blame you and you can blame me, ok?

I'm fine thanks for asking. P.S. I like your Carla Thomas too.

Hi, How are you now Zeb? Are you still getting pain etc.? I'm not sure which thread(s) you are suggesting should be pinned. Cheers A.

The Egyptian system precisely identifies numerous points on the body and head with various deities in order to purify and empower it. In the Pyramid texts the king is said to circulate the 'mounds of Horus and Set' - these are the energy centres ... those relating to perception are those of Horus and the ones about developing power are those of Set. Significant parts of this type of practice are about establishing the heart in the body and also 'joining the head to body' which means achieving a level of integration. For a long time Egyptologists suppressed the sexual content of Egyptian religion even though it is self evident and key to understanding what they were talking about. For instance the god Atum effectively masturbated the world into existence, Isis drew semen from the dead Osiris by creating a magical phallus, the god Min is shown with a erect penis and had orgiastic rites which involved the consumption of lettuce opium and Hathor was herself the goddess of joy, music, sex and so on. The word for Ba or 'soul' is sometimes written with a phallus and this is said about the resurrected king in the Pyramid Texts "Unis is lord of semen, who takes women from their husbands to the place Unis likes according to his hearts fancy." (this last quote is meant with some humour by the way). So I think you can safely conclude that sex was at the heart of Egyptian teachings.

I think you are right ... although some Taoist deify Lao Tzu and the Tao ... mind you some Buddhists deify Lord Buddha ... so its just a human tendency to want to have an ultimate to cling to.

I think our western culture makes us hung up on having to believe something - as if this is important or the key to something. This comes from the Judeo-Christian approach to spirituality. The Buddhist approach is more about building confidence in the view ... you can accept ideas like karma because they work and also because they are logical rather than some leap of faith. Cause and effect - which is the basis of karma - is logical - if you do something, act in a certain way or effect some kind of change then inevitably it has some consequence because the energy of that act is not destroyed. In terms of a moral or ethical position if you have choices about what to do then it is better to choose the positive, generous or beneficial option ... on the basis that generally this will at some time in the future (for someone if not yourself) will have positive results. The idea that we are blank sheets of paper when born is not altogether convincing. For instance we know that each one of us is genetically unique ... ok the essential nature of our minds may be pure but as actual people we have characteristics even at birth ... even identical twins are slightly different. Through interacting with the world we very quickly pick up thoughts, feelings and emotions and so on which shape us further ... this is not through faults exactly but just how it works for beings with minds which are not realised. Rebirth I think, also is a very different idea from reincarnation. Its more that whatever energy or consciousness which makes up a person is not lost at death but is somehow passed on just as the water in a river flows on or a candle flame is lit from a previous flame ... so it is not that 'you' are born again but that there is some kind of transmission. Obviously these are my thoughts and people need to make their own minds up about these things. But I think key to this kind of thing is to examine critically any assumptions you may make about how things are.

Some further authority for my mod message above: