Apech

Welcome Rob

Hello and welcome

Did Jesus visit India? Obviously there's quite a gap in the story of Jesus between his birth and his ministry at 30 years or so - so who is to say what happened and where he went. There's plenty of speculation - 'did those feet in ancient time walk upon Englands mountains green, and was the holy lamb of God in England pleasant pastures seen' ? No, not even likely - but it still inspired a lot of people and created a kind of wish fulfilling myth for many. So a travel to India via the silk route? Possible - well yes in the sense of anything is possible - probable - no. Surely it would have been mentioned or hinted at in the Gospels - while it was not. Another idea is much more possible though. Did Indian 'dharmic' thought permeate to the world in which Jesus grew up? This is much more possible. Although Jesus as a Jew is described as growing up in that culture, in the area where he lived at the Eastern side of the Roman Empire there was a high degree of Hellenisation - and culturally many cities were Greek in language and culture. There is the Decapolis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decapolis) for instance. And we know that from the time of Alexandre the Great there was contact and culture that integrated influence from India including Buddhism. If you read the history of Gandhara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhara) you can see the mixing of Indo-Greek culture. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism). There is the example of Pyrrho as a philosopher who brought Indian and Buddhist ideas back to the Greek world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrho) - there is a book about him called 'The Greek Buddha' (https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691176321/greek-buddha) . So it is possible to build up a scenario where Jesus as a young man learned of these ways of thought and was influenced by them. That he used them to reinterpret his own cultural tradition to produce his own teachings. I am not saying this is what happened but just that it is more probable than Jesus travelling to India - that in a sense India travelled to him.

While we're chatting anyone want a biscuit?

I like you.

Deus vult

you brought up the Crusades etc!

Does the slaughter of the Tamil Tigers by the Buddhist government of Sri Lanka or the treatment of the Rohinga in Burma invalidate the Buddha's teachings on compassion?

alleged or real it changed the world ... which was your question.

His death and resurrection.

I don't know much about these ostracon - although they are clearly humorous doodles and 'cartoon' -like charicatures with the reversal of normalcy being displayed - eg. cats serving rats/mice and so on. Perhaps its a kind saturnalian reversal of hierarchy but that might be reading too much into it. Actually strictly I guess Egyptian Christmas should be something Coptic ?

By the way regular cleaning of the saw's teeth is essential-

Yes I was going to buy a pole extension but in the end I just used a small foldable aluminium ladder (or step ladder) - but most of the trees I prune are fruit trees or olive and are not high. In fact the easiest thing with olive trees is to climb into the bowl of tree and work from there. I did cut down an apple tree which had quite a large trunk but used a chain saw. However basically me and chain saws don't get along - I had a petrol driven one which kept packing up on me so I bought a battery powered electric one (quite light and handy) but even then in the end I just reverted to the pruning saw which will cut through anything with a bit of effort. I haven't tried explosives ... which is why I still have all my fingers and hands ...

I prefer a pruning saw for small trees and branches. Nothing to do with qi but the curved blade is an advantage. I think the main mistake to make is to tense the arm too much - if you can relax the arm and let the blade do its work it is better. Perhaps tensing the arm inhibits qi - possibly.

And to anyone else who might get any ideas - forget it - there is only one.

The Bums needs at least one good person on here - let it be @steve.

The way I look at it is that at the time of the Buddha there was an approach (early vedantic) which aimed at discovering the atman - which is like at eternal soul acting as an agent in samsara i.e. being reborn time and time again until it frees itself (moksha). It's a bit like people these days looking for their 'higher selves' or 'true selves' and all that. I think the Buddha was saying nope, don't do that because it won't give you liberation.

I had to go back to the OP to see what this thread was about. I was mildly surprised to see it was a reflection on TDBs and the changes we go through over the years. I suppose one thing that is perennial is that threads often diverge into bad tempered rows about ... something or other. I suppose one thing that I can reflect on is how often the cause for the arguing is Buddhism. Its kind of odd because from the inside (which I am a practicing Buddhist) it is benign and gentle - compassionate and thoroughly well meaning. I'm not saying it's everyone's cup of tea - in fact I am sure that the reason there are so many systems/religions (whatevers) in the world is because different people see things differently and have different interests and needs. I know quite a few on here don't like Buddhism or find the Buddhist view ridiculous or incoherent - which is fair enough. I would like to say that it is not intended to insult people. In fact insulting others is pretty much a no-no. The idea that we cause our own suffering is a message of hope since it is therefore within our power to do something about it. Starving children should be fed and cared for - as in states of extreme stress it is nigh impossible for us to address these issues - which is why Buddhists want all sentient beings to have the 'leiesure and endowment' to be able to reflect on the dharma. My advice for what it is worth is, if you find yourself hostile to Buddhism just leave it and do something else. Do good in whatever way you see best.

I find myself warming to you TT. This discussion puts in mind the terms vidyadhara and mahasiddha as used in Buddhism. The problem I think about siddhis is not their nature but the nature of the human mind in seeking them. Our minds are 'trained' to deal with sense objects in the external world. That's how we operate to survive- So we develop the strongest perception in relation to this. How to use tools, make fire, hunt game etc. etc. This kind of perception is based on name and form. You know what something is because you have understood how to use it. Use it to provide food and shelter, to defend yourself and so on. So if someone presents you with the idea that you could say - know what someone else is thinking. Then this perception would hone in on that, supposing it believes it possible - to try to possess the means to do it. In other words an attempt to grasp it and add it to your other ordinary skills. 'If only I could levitate over this busy traffic to get to work quicker' and so on. But significantly, in my experience, the way of a naljor (yogi) starts (?) in letting go in order to return to base. By base I mean our (true) nature. From this true nature which is essentially in itself not-different to the whole continuum of power/consciousness which we are and in which we are - arise siddhis simply because it is true and unlimited. I am not saying that there is no way to acquire siddhis in the sense of process - of course there is. But it is not the way of the ordinary acquisitive mind. That is not the mind of 'wanting'. So it is said 'if you want power you won't get it'. For instance you can intend to 'see' clairvoyantly but the method is one of letting go of wanting and grasping and allowing. This is why, I think, they say don't aim for siddhis - because to do so would boost the wrong kind of intention and lead to failure or distortion.

The moon and Jupiter are in conjunction tonight!

I don't think kundalini is sufficient to explain the difference between the two categories of siddhis. For instance the Six Yogas of Naropa - the most well known being inner heat or 'candali' - which is obviously kundalini - is really a type 1 siddhi boosted by kundalini. The six yogas are: inner heat (tummo; T. gtum mo གཏུམ་མོ་; Skt. caṇḍālī) – entails the manipulation of the subtle energy of the body, which produces states of bliss and clarity, as well as physical warmth illusory body (gyulü; T sgyu lus སྒྱུ་ལུས; Skt. māyākāyā) – entails realizing the illusory nature of ordinary experience clear light (ösel; T od gsal འོད་གསལ་; Skt. prabhasvara) – entails recognizing the luminous aspect of mind dream (milam; T. rmi lam རྨི་ལམ་; Skt: svapna[-darśana]) – developing conscious awareness in the dream state transference (phowa; T. pho ba འཕོ་བ་; Skt: saṃkrānti) – directing transference of consciousness at the time of death, for either oneself or another intermediate state (bardo; T. bar do བར་དོ་; Skt: antarābhava) – entails maintaining awareness during the intermediate state (bardo) between the death of one lifetime and rebirth into the next lifetime. So I would say these are advanced versions of type 1 siddhis. Yes - they can be seen as signs of development without dwelling on them very much.

It was my prediction for 2024.

Just in TONY BLAIR jetting into Israel to meet with Netanyahu. ... we are so f*cked.

From the Atthinukhopariyaayo Sutta of the Pali Tipitaka (Samyutta Nikaya 35.152). But, next time I read that you are enlightened I will give it a stirling spin and tolerate it 🙂 I suspect siddhis are dependent on the subtle channels being cleared and flowing, Ida, pingala and sushumna in yoga, and lalana, rasana and avadhuti in Tibetan Buddhism. Perhaps some pseudo-siddhis appear after awakening, perhaps not, but the demonstrable ones I’m interested in tend to be associated with development of the subtle channels. I wouldn’t personally include working with entities as a siddhi, but that might just be me, I prefer to stay well clear of entities. I'm sure I've said this before - so at the risk of being boringly repetetive - I think there are two groups of siddhis (not counting the extraordinary siddhi of enlightenment). There are those of awareness - like clairvoyance, precognition, distance seeing, mind reading and so on. And those of power which would include levitation, bilocation, transmutation of matter and so on. I think they are quite different as the first set are quite common and 'easy' to acquire - while the later are rare and depend on a very advanced state of being. In fact the first set can just arise naturally because of the impact on the subtle body through basic things like following the breath or basic meditation techniques. I think they are essentially a form of resonance between one's being and the field or continuum of energy/spirit which is our environment. They do depend on the removal of obstructions in the channels and activation of winds. The second I can't say much about because I have no idea how they are achieved - but they are clearly a major step change from the first set and from our normal modes of being. I think people are discouraged from interest in siddhis because of their attraction. Or rather distraction. In fact trying to acquire them probably makes it much harder for them to develop. As focus of that kind acts as an inhibiter because it engages the type of perception we use for sense object manipulation. If you practice then the first type will most likely arise after a period of time almost without you noticing - but could be taken as a sign of progress if you don't get too attached to them. I think in more ancient times it was a lot easier for people to develop various siddhis because people's minds were not so locked into materialism. Nowadays its much harder. Kali Yuga and all that ----