deci belle

In other news… I asked the I Ching this week about the fact that i don't even know how to meditate!!! i didn't mention the part about not knowing how to breath too… all it said was something about "…faults not appearing and spontaneously dissolving unawares, transforming silently…"

 

Some people have all the fun.

 

I've mentioned this before, and that is that the only time womb-breathing happens to me is when i wake up in the middle of the night and it just is… so I just go back to sleep. Obviously, whatever is going on doesn't need me…❤

Cam swap there, joeblast?

 

hhahhahahhahahhahahhahahhahaa!!

 

I sink he muss have sneaks in an align-bores et groovied followers, not to mention cutting back the valves and seat-tops…

 

My speed-shop insider girlfriend who races a little truck with a biG engine told me aaaaallllllll about it!! She says hi, Joe!!❤❤ I'm no fool (I hope), but her race-engine builder has had my antique truck's original block since NOVEMBER!!!!

 

 

 

ed note: add the align-bore bit❤

Spontaneity is the impersonal response to situations by virtue of the release of one's own potential inherent in the situation itself. It is spiritual, which is another way of saying nonpsychological. The situation is oneself— not in terms of psychology, but in terms of potential.

 

"Freeing" potential from the karmic matrix is just not cultivating an habitual speculative use of situations in terms of self and other, nor going along with opportunistic relationships (in terms of the situations themselves), i.e.: not using the world to get off. The only way to really get off the world is to free potential from the worldly matrix bit by bit until one's critical mass of attention is free of one's having to maintain a self in the first place, relative to causal conditions.

 

One is released from the need to maintain the idea of "selfhood", simply by the knowledge of the nonexistence of such a personal self. All the energy that heretofore went toward maintaining the illusion is returned. This is the cause of sudden realization of nonorigination. One realizes essential nature void of self. This is the meaning of the saying, "The function of the Way is in return".

 

Instead of using the light of unity to follow cycles of creative evolution like deluded people do, one turns the light around to shine on its source, thereby becoming an immortal.

 

This is what "liberation" refers to. But ultimately, there is nothing to be liberated. That's liberation… the result of self-refinement to the point where there is no longer a self to refine or liberate.

 

Then one can go on to develop the response-body of a buddha or to again set up the cauldron and furnace for advance practice in the way of taoist immortalism.

 

Self-refinement is the process of arrival in terms of seeing (there is) no self to refine or liberate.

 

It's just harmonizing with or seeing reality, the nature of which is selfless, impersonal, uncreated potential.

 

In the individual whose virtue is sufficient, this potential meets creation and both are nullified. Reality is inconceivable. It is best to see this oneself: as such, it is a rarity. There is no explanation.

 

The subtle operation of spiritual alchemy is putting cause into causelessness with no remainder. That is the beauty of the subtle spiritual operation inherent in the efflorescence of learning immortalism, zen and awakening to the nature of your own mind. Everything is the natural arrival of nothing whatsoever in perpetuity; nothing is left out, and nothing is left over. Transcendence has nothing to show for itself, as there is no self, good, bad, and, ultimately, no before or after. Some people just hang out here is all… and endeavor to talk about it. Other than gazing into space, skiing off perfectly good mountains, tending to tasks and adapting to situations impersonally unbeknownst to anyone …there's not much else to do.

 

It is one's simultaneous meeting of created and potential energies in the moment in oneself according to the time and the situation. Karma and Intent aren't different, but one doesn't go along with the causal aspect, and instead meets its conditions without becoming involved in terms of ramifications. Wu wei isn't a thing, or a type of time— it's just a name for how it is: one's action derived from self-transcendence of cause. In terms of enlightening activity per situations, Karma and Intent fuse without remainder.

 

When one is presently so, it is like always having been so. Time is actually a manipulable element of creative evolution and this too is somehow bypassed naturally in the course of selfless adaption. It's not a wonderment, it is just part of the mystery. At least in terms of the created, there are some unexplained holes. Selfless action is non-action. This is the nature of enlightening being and its activity, which is causelessness— a biG AwRe bLacK hoLE, filled to the cusp, which has never moved, yet has been on the verge of action in perpetuity.

 

Enlightening being is the expression of this reality no different than the one before your pointed nose.

 

It is so whether or not one sees it is so. If one cannot see reality, one is changed by causal process. Those who see reality are as immovable as essential nature, because their selflessness is not different from causeless complete reality. Naturally, that which has no cause is not influenced by the caused.

 

Adepts see potential and ordinary people see illusion. it is not that potential and illusion look any different, as the light of awareness is unity regardless of one's perspective. Reality is seeing essence and not following things.

 

This is why the false is necessarily accepted as is in order to to pick out the real. "Picking out the real" is just a way to say that there is a subtlety beyond words by which enlightening beings somehow stand outside the movement of karmic activity while in the midst of it.

 

Buddhism calls this seeing through phenomena without denying characteristics. Those who recognize potential, do not work with the created itself, they just adapt to conditions without following its ramifications. Due to the fact that potential has no ramifications— there is no change for those who see it. By not following tumors of its action, there is skillful means in dealing with creative energy (karmic evolution), so it is left to its own device (killing energy). This is the matter of birth and death of karmic cycles of the beginningless alternations of yin and yang.

 

The visible and sensory realm is the inert ingredient, whereas potential is the immaterial essential by virtue of karma's created existence. We are inconceivable. This is a secret left behind by prior illuminates who knew reality first-hand and the authentic traditions of this planet are venues that keep the knowledge of reality alive. Though the teachings are different, adapted to different times and mentalities and potentials, they all arrive at the same fathomless reality if taken to their limit by an independent and audacious will to enlightenment.

 

 

BD wrote:

There is a matter which has been on my mind which is the issue of spontaneous action vs spontaneous reaction. I think it's just a matter of refinement in order to peel back the veil of ignorance that blurs the two. In any case it's not so clear cut for me at a subtle level right now.

 

Self-refinement would be a matter of dwelling in "prior to thought", whereby action/reaction are both unrealized. Yun-men's phrase, "East Mountain walks on water" expresses this truth. (East Mountain is where the 6th Chan patriarch assumed the teaching of the dharma). In terms of momentary response, the time(s) of matching potential with created energy is when self-refinement occurs: the alchemical manuals refer to the time(s) as "grain by grain, one picks out the elixir". The elixir is just recognizing the real within the context of the false to free the unrefined elixir (the potential inherent in the situation itself) from its created matrix (karmic processes).

 

So the two (action/reaction) are both relative to the self, therefore these two are indistinguishable— they are to be discarded in terms of self-refinement. Self-refinement, from beginning to end is carried out prior to thought: this is nonpsychological awareness. Alchemy calls this real knowledge. Real knowledge is immediate, solid, immovable. Another term for real knowledge is true lead. I won't go any further into alchemical terms.

 

 

hi little horse, welcome to taobums❤

 

little horse said:

"The only way to bypass Karma is to regret any wrong doings, say sorry, try not to repeat it and don't beat yourself up about it especially." "You don't need a practice or some wisened Chinese teacher for this."

 

I hope I don't seem too harsh (for a wizened fill-in or leave blank here)…

 

Your comment is still relative to a self that thinks itself to exist, therefore abiding in the matrix of creative cycles.

 

There are no half-measures. Transcendence of creation is NO stuff. Bypassing Karma isn't even intended by Intent.

 

Are you karmic or not?

 

This is not seeing all the way through to essential nature before the first thought, good or bad.

 

Don't be sorry about the past. Do not dwell in the future.

 

Activating the mind without dwelling on its contents is karma has never existed.

 

When you get here… there is nothing to know.

 

Self-refinement is just this. It has a beginning, but it has no end.

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: deleted enough to make me happy

No blinking.

From my own experience, when one manages to get into a high energy state, it seems to attract unwanted attention.

 

There seem to be accompanying feelings such as no fear, not caring about anything, feeling like you can do anything, and willing to take anybody on with boundless confidence.

 

It almost feels as if certain negative spirits are attracted to this energy and will try and provoke a response through other people for some type of gain.

 

Has anyone else had a similar type of experience? Or is this not a high energy state but something completely different?

 

Oh dear… try hiding your light, mr stimpy!! It is very good practice for when you will at times have to go in after it and accost le negative energies and disperse their nasty li'l bad selfs!!

 

As the saying goes… wisdom is easy, not using it is hard.

*Starstruck*, infatuation… been there, done that!! I recommend meeting more celebrities~ then BE ONE (of them). Then you'll be in the enviable position to return the favor.❤

 

You'll know when you're one yourself when you wouldn't dare drag their names out in public… heehee!!

 

It's too much to contain oneself though, when you already sincerely admire them, right!! ahhahha!!❤❤

 

I even received letters and phone-calls from them when I was starting out in my field (I guess I was a quick study or the universe wanted me to get over it asap). My diary was my witness. Sure was nice though!!

Thank you PG, BD and aboo-vous!❤

4bsolute said:

What is the Energy of Intention? The Energy of Intention is the energy that is prior to any thought "you" think

I like that.

There is no increasing this. There is only awakening to this as yourself.

Prior to thought is not arbitrarily seeing yourself as a separately volitional, circumstantially intending element in a separate reality and things are no longer viewed as fields of speculative endeavor relative to opportunism, emotionalism, or complacent economic and sexual relationships: therefore an energetic barrier is passed through and one then begins to lose the psychological momentum that drives all the mindless activities based on deriving beneficial profit in terms of self and other.

In simply ceasing to invest in the liver of life, as such, one is thoroughly finished with the world all at once. This is enlightening activity, not the provisional individual formative moral expedient of renunciation practiced by those whose understanding works to entertain a separate self to deprive.

Also, it isn't a matter of energy work or a technique using the subtle body as storage, as the OP surmised. Why? Because subtle energy is created, and so is the subtle energetic body. Only the uncreated immaterial body of awareness is referred to as the Storehouse awareness.

Separate volition is the marrow of karmic existence. Spontaneous selfless adaption in response to circumstances is enlightening activity free of karmic energy. Either you go along with circumstances or you go in reverse. There are no half-measures.

One comes to discover the beneficial profit of the pivot of awareness, resting in the highest good at the incipience of potential evolution. This is the basis of adapting to circumstances according to the timing of natural evolution, free of self-reflective patterns.

When this is stabilized in terms of everyday ordinary affairs, potential is recognized as the real essence comprising form, and awareness itself is recognized as one's own presence of selfless intent, pure and whole, spontaneously ready, yet always resting in stillness, not predisposed, therefore without bias or inclination. This is freedom from created karmic energies.

As such, there is no practice involved beyond seeing nonbeing within being as is. This is how wu-wei, mentioned by Silent Thunder, works: not by application, or by occurrence, but by an intrinsic, uncreated functional basis of the nature of reality, which the naming of wu-wei expresses outside of philosophically conceptualized definitions.

One's seeing becomes an open-ended objectless practice as one lives and breathes in the midst of creation without going along with the killing energy of beginningless compulsion, including others' compulsions and intentions, conscious or unconscious, good or bad.

This is the totality of real intent, selfless and complete, as is, oneself. If you understand these words, then you know karma has been transcended completely as there is effectively none to speak of in terms of oneself and others. It is up to you alone.

How is this? You don't go along with anything. You don't want anything because you know there is absolutely nothing whatsoever to want. As if there is anything created~ haha… When you see potential, not things, you have taken over creation, in this regard. This is the meaning of the alchemical phrase "taking over creation and stealing potential".

When you accomplish the takeover according to circumstances, karmic energy cannot steal your potential in terms of the situation itself, therefore you keep it secretly and store it in the immaterial body of awareness which has no location. This is the very same body of selfless intent of human being, the real human with no status, our selfless nature. If there is a practice to speak of with a notion of storage, just this is it. Taoism calls this immortality.

 

What I mean by your potential is the total essential reality inherent in the situation itself, which becomes you. How becoming!

There is no volition, there is no doing; it is all a natural process, according to circumstances to the extant that one sees this complete reality. It is inconceivable, yet naturally so in terms of having activated one's selfless enlightening being, one's true identity, by seeing potential and radiating the light of open sincere intent of the impersonal body of awareness in one's own everyday ordinary situations.

 

Who knew the whole world is oneself. This has nothing to do with being a nice person. This is the expression of the function of enlightening being adapting to situations having entered the Tao in reality.

If one has the virtue to arrive at this seeing, this takeover, one turns the light of creation around to shine on its source. That is all there is to reversal. In reversing the light, there is no shift, as light has always been the real unity. Devas and gopi-girls won't come to shower you with flowers. No one knows. it's you already, whether you know it or not.

Those who can arrive at reversal of creative energy can become wizards.




ed note: underline text in 6th paragraph, add "good or bad" in 8th paragraph, add "This is the meaning of the alchemical phrase "taking over creation and stealing potential" in 10th paragraph

A link it is, A thread it is not.

 

Thank you for the link!

Reversed is Sontsan, hmmmm? Who else would dare to paraphrase EVERYTHING he reads, then immediately co-opts incorrectly, incompletely AND out of context without the slightest shred of knowledge of the basis on which his plagiarism is founded?

 

Can this one be re-shown the door?

 

Anyone can confound a literalist using terms that consist of whole cloth. This one ought to sell e-books— he's got the vocabulary.

 

Will the mods please confirm Reversed's former alias(es)?

Microcosmos. Uh-huh. Even Vmarco wouldn't stoop to such bullshit.

 

Inconceivability is not logical. THAT's logical.

Ya, even as reality is the nature of illusion.

 

 

ps: Honestly, my original intention instead of my biG post was to just say that Alice Cooper's guitarista is Reality!!! hahaha! I only plopped that thing down cuz one of the philosophers actually warned someone they would be in constant disagreement. tRaSh-TalKin' sports-philosophers~ whatta pastime that is!!!

 

 

 

 

ed note: softened up the one-liner.❤

Illusion is not affliction: would the resident philosophers make a note of that, please? Affliction is not knowing you are afflicted.

 

 

mr stimpy said:

There is no difference between reality and illusion.

 

This is correct. I wasn't going to post, but…

 

In terms of the OP, Reality is not absolute, nor is it conditions: certainly it is not a matter of distinctions based on an habitual consciousness afflicted with the illusion of separate personal selfish views constituting reality.

 

Illusion is the affliction of self-reflective views. Reality is not being afflicted by self-reflective views.

 

The literalists may not be able to distinguish the subtlety, as it is not a matter of intellectual reasoning. It's just real… no one knows why it is so. Reality is flux inherently fused with potential. Seeing potential is seeing reality in every created cycle without going along with creation. Go along with flux and yer dead meat~ over and over and over again. It's the meaning of birth and death. It's thoughts unawares.

 

Reality is noticing thoughts as they arise and not following them; apply this to situations by analogy and cease birth and death by yourself in the microcosm in order to arrive at beginningless in the macrocosm. That's reality inside and out.

 

It is not that the absolute is empty or the world is illusory— if you can see nothingness in the midst of ordinary affairs while adapting fully engaged in response to situations, this is reality. Buddhism calls this the Supreme Vehicle. Taoism refers to this as entering the Tao in reality.

 

Seeing as how a few of the philosophers are present, I just hate to use the word selfless in this context— not because it isn't the identity of one's natural function in terms of the expression of one's enlightening being, and whose purpose is carrying out the quality of response absorbed of the real (neither absolute nor conditional), but because the word selfless scares the bejesus out of these people. They just can't wrap their li'l heads around the term. They think it refers to the individual identity. No one can understand this— it's inconceivable. That's reality. But being afflicted by delusion, they simply don't know you can't understand inconceivability. It's not words. Fortunately, only the most intelligent ones are afflicted thusly. 'Tis a pity.❤

 

Reality is the real self expressing unity. It is Mind. Seeing this unity is seeing reality~ miniskirts and bikinis included.

 

The real self is naturally void of the coming and going (birth and death) of self-conditioned views. Views come and go, but real people do not follow birth and death. They rest in the highest good, the incipience of potential reality, which has no coming or going. The pivot of awareness is the causeless result in perpetuity. This is reality and it has never looked different than illusion.

 

Karma is created process and reality is its potential essence. If you see this in ordinary affairs, this is the highest good, reality as is: thigh-highs and garters too. Throw in a few ice-ages and human-caused regional and global conflicts, epic migrations and your favorite Hollywood thriller. It's real. All of it— if you can see the real by virtue of the false.

 

If you cannot see reality, your affliction is not due to illusion, it is due to selfish views and stubborn ignorance of the nature of reality, which by nature is inherently selfless.

 

Reality is naturally void of self, so reality is spontaneously apparent to those who see without dependence on the self-reflective habitually discriminatory psychological consciousness. Reality is naturally so for those who do not cling to appearances. There is no other reality other than the one on both sides of your pointed nose. Inside and outside is one complete reality as is without deliberations.

 

The question should be "Who is reality and illusion?" This gets back to there being no separate nature, but that can't be deliberated so it is beyond the recreational pursuit of philosophical discussion. There is nothing to agree (or disagree) on in words, because it is wordless. Philosophy can only deliberate illusory objects accessible by intellectual conceptualization.

 

I have long considered this disadvantage of the fact of immediate impersonal knowledge in terms of why philosophers not only can not, but will not suspend their habitual reasoning apparatus for the instant it is necessary for the sudden realization of nonorigination to occur. The affliction (pastime) of recreational existential TALKING is too concretized to see the underlying (in broad daylight) reality.

 

Besides, reality and illusion is the nature of selflessness. BOO!! hahahhahaa!!❤

pooh!! Some kind of friend that is!!

Vous!!❤ It is just that the fractious intellectual function comes to usurp the real (unified) identity of self and tends to claim origination for EVERYTHING, much like the curious culturally derived species-centric deification of ego-identity, i.e.: the monotheistic creator of the west-Asian traditions united by the book of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

 

It (the monotheistic traditions of the book) isn't a bad thing per se, but it leaves much that is desirable— but these doctrines ARE formatively moral codes that are valid for some, at least for those who are destined to remain spiritually immature limited by their social and karmic conditioning.

 

I'm not saying conditioning determines one's character— as this quality of the self is expressed naturally in spite of and because of environmental influences.

 

Islam has its transcendental and well-known Sufi tradition and Judaism's Kabala and tradition of re-gathering the sparks, is, like Sufism, available to anyone~ but other than what has been discovered from caches hidden during the persecution of gnostics before and during the time of Constantine (CE 200~400), the back-door to an authentic self-enlightening Christian (Universal) school based on ?? is strangely hard to come by… not that the Greek, Roman and Asian/African Catholic sects don't have acknowledged mystics claimed by their ranks. But what about acknowledged teachers, even (at all?).

 

At any rate, getting rid of the thieving mind is the task by ANY tradition's device to be penetrated by people's sincerity through its open end.

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: add "limited by social and karmic conditioning" 2nd paragraph, add 3rd paragraph

One issue I see with Zen in the West is the difficulty of dealing with ancient terms and concepts in addition to dealing with the warp of our own minds. However, what seems to happen is that we often spend so much time learning and debating about what these terms and concepts mean that we tend to entrench the thinking mind rather than become free of it.

 

Oh, I don't know… I studied and accomplished through a decidedly arcane and extremely lush tradition of the Southern School of Complete Reality taoism (Its source-books written by an adept through his study and accomplishment and drawing on works compiled during the former Han era material and concurrently influenced strongly by the traditions coming through southern Asia via Tibet). Verrry ancient stuff, yet essentially not unlike Chan~ the precursor to Japanese Zen (Soto) buddhism. The highest aspects of Chan are essentially the same as that practiced in the tradition of the Clear Serenity branch of the Northern School of Complete Reality taoism using the writings of the taoist Southern School's Patriarch, Chang Po-tuan.

 

Dare I neglect to mention the spiritual sourcebooks, the Tao Te Ching as well as the I Ching and others, that have the prehistoric breadth of the sources of Taoism and beyond, imbedded in the words and symbols themselves.

 

Amazingly, there are those that insist that taoism's (popular) classics are philosophical works~ hahaha!!

 

Anybody who has delved into the taoist alchemical terminology (not to mention its device)… well, I didn't have anybody to talk to about that. Not before, during or after… evidently I had an affinity for something…

 

But I have mentioned this before, and that is— I was still lost like the proverbial stupid cat trapped in the cave under the black mountain for about five years until i discovered the Chan of Hongzhi's Cultivating the Empty Field, which opened up the function and led me away from not knowing how to detach from my amateurish clinging to the absolute in the aftermath of the sudden.

 

Not that anybody knew or anything like that. Even now, I don't discuss this stuff other than on forums like this one.

 

Not that being trapped like a stupid cat under the black mountain is a bad thing… it corresponds with the solidification and maturation period of ten months of incubation spoken of in the alchemical classics. Again, I never had opportunities to ask or tell anything to another soul about my situation. Obviously, I never debated anything with anybody.

 

It's not just a problem for the West, I assure you!! It is the nature of the thieving intellectual identity.

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: add the bit about Tibetan influences on the Complete Reality school in the first paragraph

very few Dzogchen practitioners are mentally capable to achieve the Natural State of Mind!

 

The problem is not limited to this tradition. It is not an issue of mental capacity.

 

It is not even an issue of capability as all people are just this Mind already.

 

An illiterate woodcutter was the 6th Chan patriarch.

 

As for rainbows, there is no such thing, I'm afraid. Perhaps that is a euphemism for one's functional utilization of unified awareness without discriminating thought?

 

The stabilization of achieving the natural state of Mind results in no additional capacity as mind itself is the capacity of universal aware nature.

 

Reality has no different appearance to the enlightened as it does to the deluded. The natural state of mind is simply not entertaining thought relative to personal views.

 

Very few people see Reality because they will not give up their thieving intellectualism— it has nothing to do with mental capabilities.

It is the source of your selfless aware essential nature; it has no location.

 

People habitually come to stasis in terms of a very small self-reflective aspect of intellectualism and assume that mind is relative to the self that exists by virtue of a capacity to engage in self-reflection (psychological activity).

 

The totality of selfless human being is a very small frequency of perceptivity comprising the unfathomable mystery of awareness.

 

Most people go through life thinking that the limited spectrum of conscious awareness they utilize by thought constitutes being, which is correct~ by default, that is. The fact is that it has never existed. Mind has no origination. It is unattributable.

 

Most people never realize that nonpsychological open awareness is the organism's true venue in terms of the capacity of the being that is going to die, and that the intellectual apparatus has only usurped the identity of the totality of impersonal awareness available to the enlightening function of an individual's impersonal nature which is the same as the all things not to mention the homeland of nothing whatsoever.

 

How could it have a location?

 

In other words, what thinks, thinks its identity is absolute, and this is the fallacy which the source of all the wisdom traditions of this planet categorically voids in terms of sudden realization of one's selfless aware essential nature.

 

Mind is the source of the individual's natural spiritual capacity, which is awareness. The self-reflective function is only that which facilitates the most mundane needs of the being that is going to die— whose perceptive scope should concurrently be operating fluidly in a state of awareness of the totality of its selfless being that cannot die since its light is uncreated.

 

The light of mind has no location.

Her's another one fer ya… The karmic bondage of ratio-synchretic activity is a LAW of relativity

 

I would suggest that you make unified awareness the point of departure, i.e.: yin and yang are originally one as equally important to your education as distinguishing the relative aspects of the two things.

 

This is because good and bad is still karmically derived. No karma is the only good karma.

 

No karma is unified awareness, which is not relative to picking and choosing.

 

It seems to me that you already have prioritized a preference in this regard.

hi mr Master!

 

Your life, my life, LIFE is duality. Why? Forget what passes for life— when life passes yer dead.

 

Life+Death, Yin+Yang, sex, etc. C'mon, don't be lazy!

WHO IS A ZEN TEACHER?

 

 

Steve said:

Ultimately, our teacher is the unspeakable, Kuntu Zangpo as the Tibetans call it.

We are not taught by people, we are taught by that which manifests through those people.

This is why not everyone needs a human teacher.

However, having a human teacher is helpful and necessary for most of us because we are not sensitive enough to listen, hear, and learn from the subtle essence that is truly teaching all of us.

It is usually helpful to hear words, develop some intellectual clues, and be forced to quiet the mind and listen to what we already know and are.

And what I find most interesting is that I don't know if you can really equate human teaching methods and realization.

It seems that some "get it" with no instruction or a simple word or observation whereas others never get it, no matter what they do.

This is why I think there is a real role and meaning for prayer and blessings on the path.

 

 

deci said:

Real teachers are the power of real recognition. Universal good is the virtue of real power.

One’s own recognition, to the extent its activation is impersonally real immediate knowledge, is experience of real teaching.

 

Seeing this is zen without beginning to have seen this as zen. So where is the teacher? It seems reality does not depend on “who”.

 

It is who.

 

Ultimately, one must endeavor to see realization of recognition in terms of the self that is the source of recognition, not the idea of one’s thoughts relative to real experience (which is defined as immediate knowledge). The ideas relative to one's thoughts is an impostor, false, delusional.

 

Mind "referring everything to the self" is not indicative of the self who reflects essence …it is essence. Purity directly penetrating is "who". Reflectivity is inability to penetrate essence.

 

"Who" is one’s own knowing unborn reality, in terms of presence beyond not just reflection but also action— this is selfless action of seeing through situations as spontaneous response. There has never been any other zen teacher.

 

This is zen teaching by virtue of your own recognition of reality pervading situations. This is indicative of Suchness.

 

This is the teacher whose recognition is potential awaiting subsequent illumination on the well-trod path rising gradually. Teaching being sudden as well as gradual is one without beginning.

 

"Who" is perennially awaiting you. Zen isn't a matter of premonition, it is readiness incarnate at the pivot of awareness, incipiently inevitable.

 

*************************************************************************************************************

 

My quote here was the actual first response to the ZFI thread which I posted there, and included in full here, just after the introduction that JS chose to get stuck on. I am saying the same thing as Steve has in his quote.

 

It is quite amazing that this one (JS), has made this thread about 40 posts (so far) too long— yet he has not even mentioned just this point that Steve (and I) have made quite glaringly apparent. This is the whole point of the thread.

 

Even the punter (who responded on ZFI), as GP refers to them (hahahhaa!!), got that much.

 

JS, do carry on in your native tongue …you'd be contributing (to this thread) just as much.❤

 

 

 

 

ed note: one "o" short of "too" towards the end

ooopsez, cherie~ I meant to spell ZFI… that is Zen Forum International. heehee!!❤

Simple Jack said:

 

 

I just find it strange that Deci Belle would complain about being denied the recognition of "Zen teacher", and the privilege that comes with that recognition, as an anonymous member of an internet forum. Why should the staff or forum members of ZFI be obligated to grant Deci Belle this privilege? Why bother complaining when they don't allow this privilege to just anyone who happens to create an account on that forum?

 

I don't need permission to respond, dear. And who's complaining? As i stated, it's their religion, and I respected their position regarding dis-allowing the posting of my response. It wasn't my problem to begin with as I have nothing to maintain. You are indeed seeing things that do not exist.

 

Your comment is hung-up on the introduction. Zen is not a religion, it is Mind.

 

Do endeavor to continue finding more important points to comment on pertaining to this HUGE post— instead of dragging it down to your level as I see you have continued to do. 'Tis a pity❤

 

 

 

 

ed note: encourage SJ to raise the bar by adding last line

This post is the result of what was initially my response to a thread on the International Zen Forum (though it seems to have taken on a life of its own). Its original length was eighty percent shorter.

 

There is an overt concern on the IZF website with “authenticity” (in terms of buddhist teaching tradition) with respect to an individual’s certifiable capacity to teach in acceptably formatted buddhist communities. A veneer of gossip and “looking over one’s shoulder” on the part of the resident northern European and North American (clerical?) organizational hierarchy in terms of who’s real enough, or not, i.e.: who may or may not be justifiably (judged as credible in terms of) making money facilitating buddhist ministries (comparable to them)— not to mention (however it is deemed quantifiable) who’s really qualified to do it “correctly”. There is a twang of complicity in this regard on the part of a few …politics as usual— and that’s a fact.

 

The rank and file is no different than which comprises the Tao Bums forum— seeing as how it is made up of (at least) a few taobums, replete with the usual concerns, issues, attitudes and problems.

 

It seems to me to be set up as a typical discussion forum as well as an organized practical venue for “professionally indoctrinated” buddhist teaching candidates (that’s a good thing, for religious buddhism). The website has its own (doctrinaire) flavor, which I find upright, friendly, compassionate and sincere— with a quality certainly a bit more disciplined than The Tao Bums, given its focused application (and a bit more open, regarding the certainty of that focus within its discipline).

 

By "open", I do not mean a permissiveness in terms of tolerance.

 

That means they are actually sure of themselves, and they know why~ BRAVO!!! Whereas the Tao Bums are inclined to stand (hide) behind a veneer of laissez-faire leadership, because they don't know why.

 

I have no inclination to be allied with any idea of what IZF's mission means, and they (IZF) are quite sure of their premise themselves though (concerning “real” teachers), at least. I’ve only posted twice outside of my introductory thread (where I was not shy).

 

I have also noticed a degree of “good-natured” (passive-agressive) guilt-tripping dripping from the hoi polloi responding to my presence there, which might be more of a case of the sangha policing themselves by peers, which is also a good thing for religious buddhism. From the administration, my response to a question was dis-allowed (rejected, actually, because I’m not a “teacher”). Hey, it’s not my religion. I can respect that.

 

Anyway… the expanded text of 仙's response to (you can view the thread yourself on the International Zen Forum by the same title):

 

WHO IS A ZEN TEACHER?

 

 

Real teachers are the power of real recognition. Universal good is the virtue of real power.

One’s own recognition, to the extent its activation is impersonally real immediate knowledge, is experience of real teaching.

 

Seeing this is zen without beginning to have seen this as zen. So where is the teacher? It seems reality does not depend on “who”.

 

It is who.

 

Ultimately, one must endeavor to see realization of recognition in terms of the self that is the source of recognition, not the idea of one’s thoughts relative to real experience (which is defined as immediate knowledge). The ideas relative to one's thoughts is an impostor, false, delusional.

 

Mind "referring everything to the self" is not indicative of the self who reflects essence …it is essence. Purity directly penetrating is "who". Reflectivity is inability to penetrate essence.

 

"Who" is one’s own knowing unborn reality, in terms of presence beyond not just reflection but also action— this is selfless action of seeing through situations as spontaneous response. There has never been any other zen teacher.

 

This is zen teaching by virtue of your own recognition of reality pervading situations. This is indicative of Suchness.

 

This is the teacher whose recognition is potential awaiting subsequent illumination on the well-trod path rising gradually. Teaching being sudden as well as gradual is one without beginning.

 

"Who" is perennially awaiting you. Zen isn't a matter of premonition, it is readiness incarnate at the pivot of awareness, incipiently inevitable.

 

Joe wrote:

"Although those things may be true, it’s good to have a HUMAN teacher, and sangha, who will definitely put the challenge to you in all those vanities (maybe you know). Take the test?"

—Joe

Yes Joe, always ready according to the time and circumstances~ but wouldn’t that be up to the bigger fish— not to mention everyday ordinary situations, hmmmmm?

 

In terms of enlightening function, what teaches is the same as what recognizes— and responds; neither of which is the person’s own (intelllectual) power.

 

The issue is “who is the zen teacher”, not “who thinks they have a zen teacher and deems that "good”. I speak of the reality, and reality is in terms of potential: not the relative/karmic perspective of the student/social milieu. Perhaps the OP is more mundane than I assume, but the treatment I’m providing on this post is commensurate with the scope of my task.

 

Let us not avoid the specificity of "who", by getting side-tracked into your preferences for clinging to a community-based religious attachment.

 

It is not at all about what’s “good”. It is about what (who) the zen teacher is. It is mind to mind itself. It is empty— even in conventional terms relative to student and teacher.

 

The teaching is specifically about freedom, a freedom to actually see reality as is (in terms of ordinary affairs), which is not dependent on a matter of a sudden glimpse of one’s impersonal buddha-nature (the witnessing of which is not by virtue of the person, to boot).

 

"Freedom" is actually being able to realize the inconceivable function of awareness INDEPENDENTLY— not one’s relative aspect to the substance, which is the absolute. Nor is it pertinent to the conditional aspect, an utterly circumstantial illusion, both for those ignorant of the nature of reality and for those whose accomplishment enables seeing it.

 

I must therefore be concerned with Suchness, which is neither. And there are plenty of so-called zen teachers who aren’t even remotely “who”, in this sense, able to address completely the real transcendent capacity in terms of the Great Vehicle effectively responding selflessly in ordinary situations by virtue of the karmic energy itself inherently comprised seamlessly within, or rather, as, potential. The relative and the absolute are not two. Buddhism’s Suchness is the taoist’s Complete Reality. These two terms refer to the same totality of holistic being functionally unlimited by notions of separate identities defining rationals of action.

 

Enlightening being is the response-body according to the time, not seeking honor nor avoiding censure.

 

Again, independence is not relative to the person. It is the nature of enlightening being, which is an impersonally natural function.

 

So let us not also get side-tracked into the individual vs society rut, which is made an issue by not sticking to the import of this thread, Joe— even if I must clarify it on my own. “Who” won’t be holding your hand upon entry into inconceivability because it’s not even you (and never has been).

 

It has never been other than “who” all the while.

 

At this juncture, if “who” is full of seeing its selfless nonoriginated inconceivable unity for the first time, how could there be the slightest smidgeon of vanity in that? It is simply experiencing the totality of one’s self.

 

Going on to tread the gradual path of realizing the totality of one’s self is integrating the function of enlightening qualities in the midst of ordinary situations. This is precisely the kind of activity that "self-refinement" before the sudden alludes to: that which comprises self-sublimating harmonization within one's primal essence of Tao before sudden enlightenment occurs.

 

This is why I say that enlightening being is not dependent on the sudden.

 

One might still consider this as referencing the sudden, but in actuality, this is the seeing of reality in terms of sages, saints, buddhas and immortals transcending ordinary situations in the midst of ordinary situations inconceivably. Enlightening activity is naturally so.

 

Those who have the affinity simply accept their function independently without prior arrangements.

 

There is no thing. Ultimately, we cannot rely on anything in order to realize essence, much less to carry out the function of tathagatas in the aftermath of the sudden and its subsequent maturation. What of arrow-points meeting, Joe? And when aren’t they? It is a matter of seeing it oneself. Need isn’t teaching, need is ignorance of teaching.

 

One cannot hide behind a tradition in order to see reality. One must charge straight into an army of a million enemy troops without a prayer. Reality IS. The tao isn’t taoist; bodhi isn’t buddhist. Those are just words, fine words though they may be. It’s Mind— your own mind right now, the mystery of which is unknowable. The sword of authentic wonder …I recommend it highly.

 

The energy of fascination with objects becomes authentic wonder on the spot when one forgets ageless patterns of self-reifying thought.

 

The point is, the teachers and teachings and traditions of zen is itself zen through and through— it does not matter the context or cultural milieu in which it occurs. Otherwise, it’s not zen, it’s baby-sitting.

 

It is conventional to pair teacher and (whatever you want to call the relative aspect). If you want to discuss that, Joe, then do so. But avoid cleaving to what I have written because what I have written here has no correlate in terms of a myopic, social-centric method of comfort.

 

Zen's activation is not relative to culture. That certain cultures have come to harbor varied authentic traditions that would keep the knowledge alive is perennial. Universal good is not by a country. Universal good is the source of civilizations— not the other way around.

 

People become buddhas and buddhas become people is indicative of sameness within difference in terms of enlightening activity in the world. The authentic sangha is not so exclusive as you would make it out to be.

 

There have always been those who are born knowing and there have been numberless teachers, known and anonymous, who have not taught in the conventional sense (much less at all), and here I am referring to the enlightened individual— acknowledgeable or not.

 

What you are referring to (in the cultural sense of your response to my post above), is the teaching of provisional and formative disciplines. Well, I don’t do that, so please don’t hold me to that criteria. It simply doesn’t apply for those who have seen their nature— especially when it is voiced by one who hasn’t.

 

Your comment does not meet what I have addressed in response to the OP.

 

As for the challenge of taking the test you mentioned, those come and go~ as if there were only one… as I have said elsewhere, in terms of one’s knowledge and experience, one is always surrounded by a 360˚ spherical mystery expanding endlessly. Furthermore, enlightening qualities are not dependent on cultural definitions for the benefit of buddhists. It is mind, not a person. People are limited only by their views. We are inconceivable, without solidity.

 

In other words, in terms of awareness, that the small frequency within its vast, unfathomable function capably facilitated by a relative few realized human beings isn’t definable nor dependent on the effect of a teaching, much less an orthodoxy, not to mention categories of puny moral “precepts” for the benefit of the deluded is the good news. Inconceivable mystery of mysteries! How wonderful! Your essential nature has no limit!

 

Nevertheless, this open secret is complete reality itself in terms of people’s aware nature comprising ordinary situations, not by a culture, tradition or teacher.

 

No one knows why it is so. NO ONE KNOWS. Reality isn’t buddhist, even by virtue of the stolid pointing of all the buddhas, immortals and patriarchs. Even the Nagual Shamanism of the Americas is older still by eons than the liturgies of the historical cultures of Kashmir and Sanskrit spinoffs. As for its sources, it is mind itself, not by a country. Cultural conceits are moot. Awareness isn't attributable to people's experiences.

 

Knowledge is attributable to inherent aware nature awakened in oneself.

 

The adage is, “See essence on your own, then see a teacher”. In this sense of tradition, it is using teacher AND sangha to mature the forgoing achievement, i.e.: seeing your essential nature. Perhaps there is not a vanity you yourself, at present, are able to work with? Here’s a clue: there is nothing else to work with other than the vanity of the false self.

 

Self-refinement is refining away precisely the vanity of the source of one's existential ignorance. When the final subtle vanity ceases to exist, essence is exposed naturally, and the seed of one’s potential buddha-nature is then planted in the homeland of nothing whatsoever simply by virtue of seeing it. Real knowledge is by virtue of selfless experience of potential, not thoughts relative to the endless flow of after-the-fact reflections.

 

To suggest (however good-naturedly) that I am entertaining the expression of a certain vanity is to be expected, Joe. Just don’t make it a habit, ok? It’s not my problem. That’s just my style (and my ability) you are reacting to, so try not to hold it against me just because you do not know the specifics of what I am saying might be applicable to you…❤

 

I hope I don’t reek too much of the scandalized, self-flagellators I can’t be there for, not to mention the few who delight in my message. A lifetime is very short, so please don’t waste a moment of it chiding me on account of what you are inclined call vanity. I assure you, ones greater than yourself have tried and failed for naught on account of their own vanity.

 

Enlightenment is entry-level. Buddhahood is another matter entirely. “Who is a zen teacher” cannot be a specificity in terms of accord within a certain tradition per se. Awareness isn’t created— it isn’t people.

 

Human being is our link with essence; it’s not pus and blood and the organism’s psychological apparatus.

 

The Virtue of Reception of enlightening qualities requires one’s thorough harmonization in the nature of impersonal nonpsychological (spiritual) accord’s applicable expression in terms of the essential unity of ordinary affairs themselves, unbeknownst to anyone, according to the time.

 

This is because ordinary affairs IS reality for those who see it as is. Without entertaining views of self and other while simultaneously responding selflessly as self and other, one stands outside of creation to spontaneously absorb its potential. One doesn’t do this oneself, nor does one do this for oneself— it’s just how it is. Virtuous accord doesn’t have a moral implication, it’s just real. Resting in the highest good, potential naturally accrues. Where spirit is open, the Way naturally alights.

 

Buddhism calls this gaining power by saving power. Reality is its power; illusion is its karma. These are not two. The only difference is in one’s effective virtuous harmony with reality as is, or not. If it is not enlightening activity, it is self-reflective ignorance bound to karmic retribution.

Either one sees one’s own state of being as impersonal inherently unified essence or as an original separately identifiable self. One thereby endeavors to reap the consequences of assertion and adaption alone— this is the condition of the matter of birth and death.

 

Why not endeavor to penetrate the mystery independently during the interval in between? Neither relative nor absolute, one assumes the Great Vehicle.

 

Selfless adaption is an incipient transcendent movement inherent in the karmic situation itself, and does not admit of one’s own power. The matter of non-resistance is only in terms of the relative aspect likened to ice melting: so there is no capitulation relative to situations experienced by an enlightening being because its basis is perpetually causeless, therefore never having entered into the created is its nature.

 

I will bring up potential’s “release” in passing, as it is the critical juncture in the overall timing of the celestial mechanism. This is because one’s psychic clarity is paramount in recognizing the celestial timing in order to respond in human time. It is the meaning of the phrase, “If you know but cannot act on that knowledge, it is the same as not knowing”. It is also the secret of “Refine the self and await the time”. Using ordinary affairs to refine the self, one uses the polluted to arrive at the true. This is the same as “Watching over the medicines, refine the elixir, withdrawing the cauldron from the furnace at the right time”.

 

It is a matter of following the course of events until yang peaks and the killing energy of the yin convergence is about to go into action. At the peak of interaction, you withdraw the medicines from the alchemical fire and seal up the unrefined elixir in the empty vessel, allowing nothing outside to enter inside and nothing inside to escape outside.

 

The situation itself melts by degree releasing potential as the radiance of enlightening activity. Selfless response is as natural as it is audacious in its precisely measured accord relative to the situation, executed with selfless abandon. This is “matching creation”. It is a fluid yet inexorable process of inevitability which dictates the degree of release of potential. It isn’t up to anyone per se. The benefit of enlightening activity is the absorption of potential as it is released, that’s all.

 

Petty individuality can only work effectively, relative to a self-reflective psychologically created mechanical motivation— its logic is ultimately in terms of degrees of insanity (intellectualism) utterly bound by creation to a relativity of artificial cause. The karmic bondage of ratio-synchretic activity is a LAW of relativity.

 

Selfless awareness is the source of sane energy. Enlightening being is an inconceivable, nonlinear phenomena, whose subtle adaption arises incipiently within the potential of the situation itself. This is proof of the essential sameness of relative and absolute realized by enlightening activity in ordinary situations and seen as such by enlightening beings.

 

In terms of the subtle operation of spiritual transformation, one’s nonresistance is the working definition of spontaneity in terms of spiritual movement of the response-body, selflessly aware, when it releases (detaches in the midst of situations) after holding firmly through the course of events.

 

When potential is released, it is spontaneously absorbed by those who see it simply by virtue of one's having worked directly with essence from the start. In terms of alchemic process, this is precisely the time when one withdraws from yin (creation) and seals the unrefined potential (of the experiential situation) in secrecy, void of intellectualism.

 

Absorption in the gradual sense is analogous with sudden realization (all-at-once): it is not relative to oneself, nor is it accomplished as oneself’s person. Either way, the event is an acute phase, as the real work subsequently follows, and is, indeed, up to oneself alone.

Finally, “who is a zen teacher” is a predilection to effect that functional inherent capacity in others who are ready, according to the time, whereby enlightening qualities are recognized and cultivated.

 

As for Zen, where is the expression of the power of causeless enlightenment?

Character assassination is a deliberate and sustained process that aims to destroy the credibility and reputation of a person, institution, social group, or nation.[1] Agents of character assassinations employ a mix of open and covert methods to achieve their goals, such as raising false accusations, planting and fostering rumors, and manipulating information.

Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person's reputation. It may involve exaggeration, misleading half-truths, or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person. It is a form of defamation and can be a form of ad hominem argument.

In practice, character assassination may involve doublespeak, spreading of rumors, innuendo or deliberate misinformation on topics relating to the subject's morals, integrity, and reputation. It may involve spinning information that is technically true, but that is presented in a misleading manner or is presented without the necessary context. For example, it might be said that a person refused to pay any income tax during a specific year, without saying that no tax was actually owed due to the person having no income that year, or that a person was sacked from a firm, even though he may have been made redundant through no fault of his own, rather than being terminated for cause.

 

In politics, perhaps the most common form of character assassination is the spread of allegations that a candidate is a liar. Other common themes may include allegations that the candidate is a bad or unpopular member of his family, has a bad relationship with his spouse or children or is not respected by his colleagues. Another theme claims that the person routinely engages in disturbing, socially unacceptable behavior, such as sexual deviancy. The person may also be portrayed as holding beliefs widely considered despicable within society, such as supporting racism or other forms of bigotry.

 

Now if Tibetan Ice is going to start naming names and make it perfectly clear as to whom he is referring to in this thread then he will necessarily back this up with the facts at hand immediately to the owners of this website.

 

Otherwise he is to be legally held accountable for libel.

 

I will then hold the owner of this website accountable for allowing the person posing asTibetan Ice to develop and instigate the insinuations as defined above.

 

If Tibetan Ice is unable to provide proof of his allegations coyly directed against me I will furthermore direct my legal team to insist that the owner of this website to permanently ban Tibetan Ice from this forum.

 

 

 

ed note: bold