deci belle

Deci seems to be flirting with nihilism here

That isn't possible for enlightening beings. But since you are in performance mode (again) mr P, why don't you book your own lighting, hmmmm? Please stop making doubt-based insinuations (supposedly for the sake of argument) that there are issues that you are obviously grappling with yourself that you would presume to project onto me to put on a nice show.

Let's analyze what you might be flirting with here, shall we?

Doing is the problem. Non-doing is the matter of birth and death reverting to unity. Carrying this out is self-refinement. Nihilism is relative to eternalism. The Supreme Vehicle is neither.

The last line of the OP distinctly states:

I also dare to ask that isn't manifesting "doing"?

But mr P wants to dabble in conventional arguments because he can't address the profound.

That mr P could conceive of nihilism in what is recognition of reality as is, is indicative of an inability to see reality as is. It is what it is already, mr P. That is the point.

Read what I say and understand it. If you doubt it, then qualify it on the level I make the statement you doubt. If you can't, then you aren't qualified to call it into doubt on your own terms. Why? Because they aren't your terms. They are my terms used as only I can use them. Use my terms as I do and you can learn. You can't do anything else at this point (except pretend) — you certainly don't know yourself.

Perhaps you need to stand down and instead of perpetuating your professional self-image of (grandmaster of showmanship), perhaps you aught to endeavor to ask an authority before shooting your big mouth off for effect.

If you could get to the point yourself, you would, but you can't, so you flirt with doubt and "reasoning".

Refrain from calling into doubt anything I say to make a point because any point you might make based on doubts relative to anyone other than yourself is not only not immediate knowledge, it is deluded conjecture.

If you don't know, don't make a business of projecting doubts on others to appear knowledgable yourself. I write here on this forum because I know the basis, not because I'm a showgirl.

Is it nihilism or not? If you don't know then shut the fuck up. If you do know then say so and say why. Don't make me express this tone on your account again.

DO YOU INDERSTAND mr P(ERFORMANCE ARTIST)?

ENLIGHTENING ACTIVITY IS NOT A MATTER OF REASON. MY EXPRESSIONS ARE TANTAMOUNT TO ENTRY INTO INCONCEIVABILITY.

Now, if you are not qualified to understand what I say on that level, do not presume to analyze what I say on your level of conventional logic.

I AM NOT THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD. MY WORDS ARE NOT THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD. YOU ADDRESS THE OP TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY AND DON'T RIDE MY COATTAILS, mr sage on the stage.

Since it is obvious (to me) that you actually don't know the basis of my treatment of this topic, cease from analyzing my contribution.

NIHILISM, INDEED.

ed note: add "If you could get to the point yourself, you would, but you don't, so you flirt with doubt and "reasoning"

 

Is new age and spiritual stuff irrelevant to the tao cultivator?

This stuff isn't new. How about getting on topic, Nungali and stop your ranting. Get to the point, hmmmm?

Good question, daojones!

It is entirely psychological. Though the body has knowledge it does not initiate action, nor does it have preferences for harmful action.

The body is nonpsychological.

I have found that changes resulting in elimination of destructive craving that you have described are those that can be typified as the manifestation of a desire and having the will to stop~ that and an unbending intent, to sustain that desire and will is what eliminates the reasoning behind self-destructive behavior.

Bottom line: It's not your body that wants, it's the psychological identity that wants and reasons. And the only way to stop one's psychological momentum is to want to stop the behavior altogether.

Good luck with that issue, daojones.❤

ed note: re-write content leaving out hun and po references

Thank you, Horus.❤

Horus said:

The idea was to be in it, and not of it. To enter the illusion and still Know Thyself.

This is buddhahood, wizardry, enlightening being— the active expression of complete reality with no inside or outside.

This is precisely the highest realization of the Supreme Vehicle of buddhist and the nonresistant Virtue of Receptivity of taoist traditions.

This is why I say that sudden enlightenment is entry-level. Horus' statement is the application of enlightened mind in the midst of delusion.

This is shattering the polar mountain (duality) and entering into the Tao in reality because the realization of enlightening qualities in the midst of the killing energy of karmic evolution is the knowledge of delusion and enlightenment is the same mind.

In terms of the OP…

Is new age and spiritual stuff irrelevant to the tao cultivator?

I find Horus' story interesting in that it has in it a hint of an idea expressed in Chinese shepherding folk-tales. But the story I am referring to is much less dramatic and a bit more focused in that it really concerns itself (the tale) with how to arrive at one's relationship with one's sheep in order to not be required to maintain them (the responsibility of one's conditional aspect of worldly involvements).

The reason for this is to free oneself for spontaneous living in the world without engendering cloying personal evolutionary recensions (going along with the conditioned flow of creative evolution), because this is unconscious deviation from floating around in the center of the compass of the immediate pristine pivot of awareness at the incipience of unconditional unity as it manifests as delusion for those ignorant of their nature and as "knowing thyself" as the world itself, for those who are able to see reality and express enlightened mind without being limited by creation.

As one's destiny is arrived at by virtue of fulfilling one's particular strain of karmic DNA, cloying deviations (personal evolutionary recensions), are unnecessary if one can see reality at its incipience thereby avoiding floating off into arbitrary involvements, i.e.: unwittingly "rewriting" ones true destiny.

In the truest sense, one's destiny is to realize the totality of oneself. In seeing complete reality, the conditional ramifications of one's circumstantial existence is insignificant. In other words, it doesn't matter what you do, because arrival at enlightening awareness is the expression of ones unity as the world.

There is no right or wrong in terms of seeing reality. Enlightening activity makes everything real.

But this was the whole idea from the very "beginning" we have to invert awareness

But people's inverted awareness is not an idea, it is unconscious. The inversion of awareness (taoism calls this "turning the light around"), is the basis of self-refinement.

ed note: remember to thank Horus, and add 6th and 7th paragraphs

I can't seem to shake these ideas as I try to explore new age and spiritual "culture" (?)...

 

If one was in total harmony with the tao, would you need to worry about chakras, the pineal gland, sacred geometry, dimensions, indigo children, crystals, and all that other stuff found in spiritual stores and websites?

 

Not trying to offend, I'm just trying to understand how everything translates.

 

I also dare to ask that isn't manifesting "doing"?

haha!! How wonderful!!

"Cultivation" is itself peripheral.

There is nothing to cultivate.

I can only go by what I know, and that is the unequivocality that nothing can be done about it (arriving at harmony in the tao).

I see most people doing the pursuit of all kinds of things to arrive at this nondoing of entry into the tao in reality. Actually, imitating tao is being empty of oneself in the midst of ordinary affairs. Just this is using the world to refine the self. Just this is refining the self and simultaneously awaiting the time(s) of celestial movement.

After a long time of abiding in sincere open intent, therein is long life and eternal vision. All kinds of spontaneous inner and outer phenomena supposedly arrived at by the deliberate "cultivation" of self-reifying practice is awakened to without even knowing there were such phenomena to experience by virtue of having a body.

People are absolutely backwards. The overall discipline described in the ancient manuals is called "reversal". Gee, I wonder why…

New age stuff isn't new. There is nothing to concern oneself in terms of arriving at the essence of one's nature.

Not doing is not following habitual consciousness unawares. Reality is just the world without your personal views based on self and other, before and after, good and bad.

ed note: change "stiff" to "stuff" in penultimate paragraph~ what could i have been thinking?!!

haha!! Sounds like one of my thread titles~ hi Kitty!!❤

My barista's girlfriend's dad is with the CDC. CDC had a big meeting. Individuals with ebola has been reported in NYC and Philadelphia.

lalalala…

Who's we, paleface?

Fair comment Deci but Buddhas know shit-loads of nothing.
We, on the other hand; only know next to nothing.

Since you do not now nothing as it is, you do not know my comment is precise.

There is no comparison to nothing you nor any buddhas can make about it.

For one who is unaware of the buddha himself~ mr P sure seems to be shoveling it thickly for the benefit of the punters…❤ hahahhahahaaa!!

ed note… spice up the last line… heehee!!

Internal chinese alchemy is something that really interests me, but I don't know where to begin. What I do know is a haphazard array of ideas an concepts that I've strung together on the thread of my personal experience.

 

I began with the secret of the golden flower text, and I feel like it is a very useful text, but I was looking to find some complimentary texts to adjunct my learning and fortify my knowledge of the concepts used.

 

I'm hoping some of you guys might have some useful insights or leads for me.

Thanks.

hi picklepadma~ If you are interested in energy work… that is one thing a lot of people will throw around as internal alchemy.

If you have a natural affinity for spiritual alchemy, working with essence directly, this is another matter entirely.

Your inability to carry on in terms of this thread has nothing to do with your alcohol intake. Thanks for sharing that.

How to increase your intention is to practice intention and realising how much human intention has already shaped this world

This is the source of delusion. Human intent is the road to hell on earth. Hell isn't some other place, some other time.

Impersonal intent of the immaterial body of awareness which is the same as the nonexistence of karma is not yours.

There is no increasing this. One awakens to this as one's essential inherent nature no different than your own mind right now.

Little horse, dear~ this is not within your grasp to comprehend. It is not relative to any one watched or watching, ok?

Zoom said:

Is there an objective reality or not in Dzogchen theory?

 

I personally am 100% convinced that there is an objective reality!

Reality is independent of Dzogchen. Theory is not it.

Objectivity is selfless open aware perception of thusness as is.

The tao isn't taoist. Suchness isn't buddhist. Mental concepts aren't necessary to seeing reality.

This much doesn't require an awakening to the absolute; this much results in awakening to the absolute.

Objective reality is delusion without you identifying with your selfish personalistic views of self and other, good and bad.

Reality does not look any different to a buddha than it does to an ignoramus. Buddhas just don't know anything.

What theory is there in that?

I am normally a very compassionate person, but I'm distressed at seeing news - early this morning - of two US Christian missionaries, stricken with Ebola in their work in West Africa, being flown home for treatment.

 

I am NOT supportive of this at all. We cannot risk an outbreak. Already Yahoo (news) is posting official Quarantine Center sites.

 

These two people will likely die anyway. And why should the general populace be put at risk?

 

It's enough that we're facing a recent wash of disease (scabies, hepatitis, etc.) from undocumented immigrants.

 

Our economy is still unstable besides. This just seems to be tossing fuel onto the fire.

 

Thoughts?

Welcome to your administratively moribund, cluelessly we-try-harder politically motivated nanny-state, dear Buttercup!❤

I wanna have the US be like Switzerland (for those whose ideal is a European style USA): everybody is required to be an expert marksman AND maintain and own firearms; their borders are sacrosanct in terms of citizenship and medical requirements. Qualified and productive non-citizen residents PAY more for utilities.

There are the Swiss-German, Swiss-Italian and Swiss-French bathrooms to consider… some in the same building…

Not to mention an abundance of glaciated mountains AND sexy swiss guides for mountain-travellers such as moi!!❤❤

hahahahhahahhaa!! Me toozez!!! hahaha!!

Karma is created (creative) process. It is the matrix of eternity comprised of the three times and the two extremes.

But backing up a little, awareness is not action. It has never moved. Awareness is uncreated. Lets work on that basis as it is essential to work with the real in order to clarify it in ourselves to transcend our delusional existence.

Being is sentience relative to a self that thinks it exists. This is the conditional. This is the basis of delusion. Why? Most importantly it is because the delude are unaware they are deluded. Secondly, delusion is going along with created energy and your assumption that that means self and other is bound with no other alternative other than to go helplessly through the rounds of birth and death forever.

Now ask yourself what even the most immature understanding of Christianity promises? Now ask yourself what the Supreme Vehicle of Buddhas is? Now ponder for a moment that you yourself are a buddha right now but you don't know it. Do you know what a buddha is? What is the basic teaching of buddhism?

The basic teaching of buddhism is the entire buddhist canon covering the vast wisdom teachings of the ancients spoken and wordless, and it amounts to just activating the mind without dwelling on its contents. This is not the slightest bit concerned with good or bad. Mind is your nature. Your nature is selflessly aware.

Awareness is itself nonbeing. Karma is being. Complete reality is nonbeing within being. The enlightening expression of complete reality is one's own natural aware function transcending ordinary and holy, that is neither nonbeing nor being. Your own aware nature is the impersonal intent transcending karma without beginning. This is the topic of this thread.

Now, getting back to your statement based on conventional attributes which states that "sentient being creates…" OK, I know what you mean, but not only is the statement absurd ("being sentient creates reality") Oh really? Really it is saying that sentient being is responsible for its own conditions. But who is?

Buddhas are, and that's about it.

I say this much because the reality is that sentient being is not solid. It is flux. You can get all scientific, but that is not the import of the wisdom teachings based on the nature of awareness. Furthermore, since you don't even know your own mind which is selfless and uncreated and is prior to the evolutions of karmic existence of birth and death, until you can quiet and concentrate your mind, all these mental rambling half-baked projections can never clarify the basis of your own aware nature that you have never even considered before.

Unawareness of karma and the fundamental nature of the selfless intent of the immaterial body of awareness that has no location would seem to me a limiting factor in even learning that this thread isn't really the place for you to go off proclaiming what reality, being, sentience, physics, action, fear and love are.

If you can't clear your mind, empty it, how are you going to make room for the very space which is already your own aware nature? Of course, it is immaterial, so it doesn't take up space, but until you empty out your own mental junk, the Way cannot accrue of its own accord.

The Way is empty. It is a void which consists of no such void. One must harmonize with its reality to arrive at its virtue.

Little horse. Please. Get ahold of some books and study them and begin to learn to discern how your fundamental nature has nothing to do with physics and philosophical discussion based on intellectualism— and that goes for silent thunder and nine tailed fox.

THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD IS:

"Is there a known practice on how to increase the Energy of Intention? ..and how a similar technique apparently bypasses all Karma."

If you don't even know what karma is, little horse, what are you doing on this thread? Study the buddhist canon for five to ten years and come back, by all means!

Now, please go back and STUDY the posts from the beginning of this thread… or just derail and pirate the thread if you want.

I've said enough.❤

ed note: typos

Neither enlightening intent nor karmic bondage are attached to, mitigated, or fused by energy work.

Chi is created. Channels are created. Reality is not within the realm of more. Intent is not in any manner increasable and karma is not different that reality. It is up to oneself to see reality as is.

One must awaken to this as oneself, inconceivable. There is no trick to it as YOU DO NOT DO IT.

Both nine tailed fox and silent thunder have missed the critical aspect of working with the real.

If you want to arrive at the uncreated, it is crucial to work with the uncreated essence from the start.

As I stated just prior, if this topic is beyond your current ability to penetrate, it is best not to advance blindly.

But if you insist, then be my guest.

oh joy!!❤ I hope that is cool with Silent Thunder~ …works for me~ especially the end part!!

merciiiiiiiiiii, Brian!!❤❤

ahhahahaa!!❤❤

"Those who realize on their own do not need to seek outside. If you insist absolutely that a teacher is necessary in order to attain liberation, that is not right. Why? Because there is a teacher within one's own mind that understands spontaneously. If you create falsehood, confusion, erroneous thought and delusion, then even if a teacher gives you instruction, it cannot help you.

If you activate the insight of genuine prajna, in an instant erroneous thoughts all vanish. If you knew your own nature, with one realization you immediately reach buddhahood.

Insight sees through inside and out, clearly penetrating, discerning your own original mind. If you know your original mind, you are fundamentally liberated. If you attain liberation, this is prajna samadhi, which is freedom from thought.

What is freedom from thought? If you see all things without the mind being affected or attached, this is freedom from thought. Its function pervades everywhere, without being attached anywhere. Just purify the basic mind…"

—from the second section of The Sutra of Hui-Neng. Translated by Thomas Clearly 1998. ISBN 1-57062-348-1

Hui-Neng was the 6th Chan patriarch and the last to receive the robe and bowl signifying the seal of transmission imparting the teaching of the direct lineage from Bodhidharma, himself the 27th Venerable teacher of the Supreme Vehicle passed on from Shakyamuni Buddha.

Haha!! I just smile on those pesky hopes and desires.❤❤

Yes, I went and returned. I left home at 6:00 am and reached the cirque as the sun was peeking over the highest point to the east. The sun took its time coming out of the clouds and the mosquitos took their time (with me).

Instead of hanging out by the water, I picked my way up through 300m of rock on the inclined talus slope comprised of jumbled-up small, large and monolithic granite formations to a little section of steep solid rock (with biG holds) for about 10m to reach the knife-edged ridge about 150m shy of the highest peak overlooking the alpine cirque.

I scampered south away from the peak along a particularly thin section called the Catwalk. I've also crawled on hands and knees during blizzards over that same section with skis strapped to my pack… sometimes clients (I guide) refuse to go across that part (there's a mellower way that traverses a little below the Catwalk).

At any rate, thunder rang out once at that point while on the ridge. I got off the steep part of the ridge by 10:30 am.

Half way down the mountain, it pealed again.

As I reached my car an hour after the 1st rumble, a thunderclap boomed a third time, and as I drove from the trailhead, the mountain was very dark.

The drive home was heinous! I had never seen the likes of the downpour. Many cars were pulled off the freeway, but I just left it in 5th gear and kept going even though it was impossible to see on occasion. It ended up raining about 4" over the course of the afternoon where I live!

I'm praying for El Niño to bury my mountains with snow this winter!!

ed note: add the part about "jumbled-up small, large and monolithic granite formations" in the 2nd paragraph

Hi Deci Belle,

Not sure what the "fill-in or leave blank here" is all about. Can't I say Chinese ?

Although your reply was well written and thought out, it was virtually unintelligible to a simple man like myself.

I don't mean that badly, at all. Just that I would like to understand what you said.

Most people are walking this solid earth and are not floating in the ethers with the immortals.

It just makes spiritual ideas the domain of university graduates and not "common folk".

Sorry, bit of constructive criticism from a man that walks backwards.

Peace be with you.

Marc.

ya, ok! It is not smart people who "get this". I don't get this too. But there are those who are born knowing (not me). In finding out for myself, it wasn't a me who has always known this selfless identity— that's how I know nonbeing is real being. Our essential nature is knowing itself: this is our real identity, a knowing open awareness. The hard part though is returning to the world of everyday ordinary situations and starting over again and somehow using the power of nonbeing within being to accord with reality in the midst of delusional conformity with phenomena.

When the path opens up, it has no end. Even delusion is a mystery— how much the more so is the fact that delusion and reality are the same. The thing I talk about here is seeing reality and dealing with illusion.

What I mean by that is the truth is there is nothing to get …it's already your own mind. The reason ordinary people don't have access to this naturally open aware nature and its power to pass through karmic evolution without being dragged away with it is because you are already being perpetually dragged away along with creation without your knowing it.

Ways to arrive at one's inherent virtue so to not be dragged away in complete ignorance is the secret left behind by many, many authentic traditions through the ages. It's already inherent in you, so no, you are correct to say that some people do not need a practice or teachers of a certain ethnic origin to arrive at complete reality.

I don't practice and I never had a teacher, so maybe you are like me in that regard.

The part about understanding is the nature of your mind. I swear to you that there is nothing at all to understand. This is because it is beyond the intellectual faculties. It is inconceivability itself. It is found within yourself— and nowhere else. The whole world is each our own totality of being. Ultimately, there are those who not only arrive at this truth, they learn to enter it completely without remainder.

The man who walks backwards is the one who would arrive at just this nonpsychological basis as is.

I'm not referring to enlightenment. Forget that for all time if you are really the one who walks backwards. If what you say is true, enlightenment will have to catch up with you— and it never will. So forget about all that shit— you already know that much.

The nonpsychological is just not thinking. When you know something without deliberation, knowledge is immediate. Just abide here without focusing on the contents. This specific place is very much a practice you, in fact, do need to arrive at in order to realize the totality of yourself, which is inconceivable. Recognize this place and keep a subtle continuous level of accord (concentration) with it at all times. There is no better practice as it is your own mind already.

I walk backward too.❤

After a long long time, clarification will come of itself.

ed note: add 2nd and 3rd paragraphs

Not sure what the "fill-in or leave blank here" is all about. Can't I say Chinese ?

haha!! No, little horse!! I didn't know what you would prefer to call me …I'm just wizened, but I'm not Chinese! You have no idea what constitutes need or not in terms of arriving at your impersonal identity. That fact is neither good nor bad.

The topic is a little beyond you right now. That's cool with me… but you probably resent my saying so. Sorry.

I use stairs and ladders and elevators to go from floor to floor, silent thunder. I'll bet you do too… unless you want to be a baby about the depth of this matter.

Change your attitude and you might make some discoveries into the nature of the being you consider yourself that is going to die.

Clear your mind and get real, for starters, before posting on my account~ unless it is fine with you to be a smart-ass about the matter of life and death.

If so, be my guest. I'm already the host.

Rest in the inevitable in perpetuity.

I just discovered a new (to me) koan-zen teacher giving talks and all-day programs in my town. He is ordained (or something like that) buddhist lay-cleric(?), whatever.

I checked out his website, thinking it might be interesting (what was I thinking?). People get to do stuff in his back yard! Eeee!!

haha!! He had three standard cases (koans) introduced with talks recorded on icloud(?) on his site. Cool! eh…

Tomorrow is Sunday. I'm goona hang out at 12,000 feet and sit on a rock and maybe gaze into space or watch marmots… and then watch a quiet flowing stream of pristine snow-melt come right out of an ancient glacial moraine lined with grass and flowers… eh. heeheehee!!❤❤

I'm going to visit in a few weeks.

And he's with me in my heart anytime I need him.

Yay!!❤❤