deci belle

… the point of the traditions' insisting on this, I believe, is that one is not to wait, much less rely, on the thought of anything beyond one's present state (without so much as seeking at all) as being necessary to the discovery one's own essential nature by virtue of having a body.

 

No one ever said don't avail yourself of a teacher~ just don't depend on the good fortune of finding a real one ever.

 

Chang Po-tuan didn't find his final teacher until he was 80! Even so, the essential point of seeing essence doesn't need or is it even possible to teach. Its application, on the other hand, is a matter of the science of Life, which usually requires a teacher. Circumstances themselves have always guided my actions (which doesn't sound that special at all).

 

Most all adepts of the asian traditions are such by having accrued relationships with profound teachers which only accounts for the existence of their lineages in the first place, is all. There are so many instances of enlightened disciples of famous teachers never teaching themselves, let alone producing subsequent illuminates.

 

How many thousands of self-illuminated adepts have had the good fortune to come and go in relative obscurity! It is not seemingly common for people to arrive at sudden illumination and progress through the pitfalls of individual liberation without a teacher, yet how could it be considered a bad thing?

 

I haven't met a teacher-in-the-flesh yet, not that I didn't have an especially fortunate course of practical teachings to study and the need to do so in order to adapt (survive) the circumstances I was finding myself in during a very critical and amazing period of my life (…meant to happen, no doubt, but I exercised the freedom to respond as needed, and when, in terms of the timing, according to circumstances— which was very much dependent on myself alone).

 

I remember one such instance (among many) where I kept the world waiting for an entire calendar year, before responding to creation on my terms. Then I walked, smelling as fresh as a daisy~ as the world was left with its jaws hanging in the breeze (yet again). I tell you, destiny, such as it is, is up to oneself, alone.

 

I wasn't thrown to a single lion, just a few tigers is all~ ohh I ran into one such tiger-eyer, today …just a reminder. I do remember when they were bulls, though— and not in past lives!!

 

I didn't see a teacher in any sense until after I'd stepped over eternity and thus after I had actually already entered the well-trod path of prior illuminates. But I did, after all… and he was awaiting me, on a subtle rise.

 

Ultimately, destiny is one from beginning to end, which has neither~ heehee!!❤

 

 

 

 

ed note: add last part of 4th paragraph

Ultimately, whether or not one is the light at the incipience of the pivot of awareness, one simply adapts selflessly to conditions without bias or inclination. That is how one maintains the destiny that is up to oneself alone.

dawei said:

I might only add that, IMO, destiny is our path and education; not just volition but is a discovery for some. This might be an interesting topic.I might only add that, IMO, destiny is our path and education; not just volition but is a discovery for some. This might be an interesting topic.

 

Since how one responds to reality from the pivot of awareness at the incipience of evolution is up to oneself alone does not infer that one ever initiates anything.

 

One neither takes nor adds to reality— that would be indicative of having a self, whereas the light unknowingly follows the will of god without the desire to do so.

Oh, i just stumbled onto this one, dawei…

 

hmmmm, well I will see what comes of this, ok?

 

 

This raises the issue of 'destiny' which I agree with the JAJ program about.

 

What is the Complete Reality position on such issues of destiny ?

 

Complete Reality tradition states simply that once one is free of creative evolution by having matched one's potential with the nonoriginated, destiny is up to oneself alone.

 

Will you please educate me on the JAJ program?

 

Ahh~ well at least I picked up on this in the meantime… What I'd written earlier was:

 

 

 

 

Open sincerity is purity of intent.

 

Intent is purified as soon as "your" is eliminated.

 

This is the meaning of openness.

 

 

 

Do you have a thread on this?

 

This implies the purity of intent is minus "your" [ownness]

 

IF intent is not "your" [ownness], is it an otherness?

 

What I was referring to in this instance was the OP stating "your intent".

 

So, eliminating the "your" from one's intent, makes your intent open, which is the working definition of purity: i.e., selfless. This is what defines purity, selflessly so.

 

So, in a sense, it could be seen in terms of "otherness". But here, it is not at all separate~ nor considered to be other than an intimate knowledge of reality without bias or inclination based on the situation itself evolving incipiently at the pivot of awareness.

 

Open sincerity is how one adapts impersonally to everyday ordinary situations, inasmuch as one does not come from a perspective of the personality due to a long-standing posture of detachment relative to speculative concerns involving self, other, before, after, good, bad and the whole panoply of confusion based on the emotional body and the discursive intellectual apparatus.

 

Did I address anything? Or perhaps there was an instance of positing on what it is that Jesus nailed? —Not that I doubt it, I wouldn't dare waste the energy. Ultimately, it doesn't matter.

 

I believe that dealing with the circumstances such as they are depicted in the Gospel, Jesus just dealt with it such as he did and came out smelling like a rose, that IS the way it goes, ya know. Creation has no hold over adepts of subtle function who ARE the light. Duh. Why does anybody think there ARE spiritual traditions, after all. It's not about being good. It's about freeing yourself, then others— IN THAT ORDER.

 

I'm not sure it was the fact of his supposed nailing!! His teachings are unabashedly saying it like it is in so many instances (even especially in the orthodox liturgy). In terms of the Gnostic records, which seem to be more concerned with sassily deriding the anthropo-centric antics of the creator-god and elucidating a practical approach to communing with the light within and surely based on a much older and (then) prevalent tradition— the orthodox orders ought to have been very concerned about all these spiritually acquainted lovelies doing the down and delirious in those unsupervised catacombs. Ooooh, what a rage that must have been!! Just projecting… heehee!!

 

That and the gnostics' penchant for deriding the stoopidity of throwing oneself away in terms of martyrdom. The orthodoxy really had to get a handle on that. When Constantine converted, he had the State eliminate the last vestiges of gnosticism by CE 400. Dangs!

 

 

 

 

ed note: kept adding to this…

If one were so lucky, indeed… the point, I believe, is not to wait, much less rely, on the thought of anything beyond one's present state (without so much as seeking at all) as being necessary to the discovery one's own essential nature by virtue of having a body.

 

Then it is driven home that the aperture of the Mysterious Female is found in the region below the heart and above the genitals, in the Center of the immaterial body of awareness, which has no location.

 

The reason for then seeking a teacher in the aftermath of the sudden is that one's perception of achievement is a very delicate affair and must not only be ascertained by an adept of certain qualification to discern, but also because, in the aftermath of the sudden, the emphasis of the subtle function is to be re-oriented by the guidance of an experienced teacher.

 

The alchemical phrase is "then the furnace and cauldron are again set up for advanced practice".

 

Also, in the aftermath of seeing essence, one must then learn to get rid of lead.

 

The alchemical phrase is "having once used lead, it is then necessary to get rid of it, until only the essence remains".

 

 

 

 

ed note: add "(without so much as seeking at all)"; add 2nd paragraph; deleted one too many "once"s in the last line

Furthermore, it is adepts, as this term is to be correctly used in discussion on this forum, who have the qualification (if otherwise exercising the predilection to do so), to effectively bring out the necessary attributes in those who are so disposed to continue the process of virtuous enlightening function in the aftermath of sudden illumination.

 

The working phrase of the ancients is "See essence on your own, then seek a teacher".

 

 

 

 

ed note: add "function"

Merciii, Steve— and also to the rest of you…❤

 

It just occurred to me that it might have mistakenly been surmised that teachers were being singled out as those who were missing out on what was right in front of them!!

 

Not at all~ it is teachers, or rather the the potential for guidance, which is not being recognized by those who are filled with a conceit of ignorance.

 

okaaaay!

 

 

 

 

ed note: add clarification of the point of my title and OP

OP spun-off from a thread titled, Spiritual Adepts.

 

This post is adapted from The Master of the Hidden Storehouse.

 

There is a bum who insists that spiritual adepts are an especially gifted breed with knowledge of everything.

 

I told this bum that the conceit of an ignorance so disposed to considering others in such a high regard is a clever device that fills one's mind with a very selfish (albeit bereft) view in order to keep one separated from the truth of no such knowledge whatsoever.

 

Adepts only know how to empty their minds. Since the Way contains no such knowledge, adepts empty their knowledge to imitate the Way, in order to penetrate its Virtue by subtly harmonizing with its basis, which is none other than one's own essential, impersonal nature.

 

Heaven creates the timing and produces potential without making promises to humankind. In plentitude, honor the Center, which has no location in the heart of the heaven and earth of the immaterial body of awareness. In destitution, honor this Center, which contains the impulse of life, unborn and undying.

 

Do not miss human timing, which is made possible by correct observation, according to situations, when potential is ripe. When the time has passed, withdraw. Then one can preserve the Way intact, with no loss to old and new.

 

Those who do not practice correct observation, violate the junctures of subtle process before they have even arrived, and long for them after they have gone, even as they regard them only in terms relative to selfish gratification in their ignorance of living potential's primordial gift of transcendence of endless rounds of birth and death.

 

Therefore, right at the precise timing of chance, they slight it.

 

Those who are so concerned with what they perceive themselves to be missing, constantly miss out on what is right in front of them …teachers, for example.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add link to "Spiritual Adepts" thread

There is nothing to know, mon ami.

 

Since you yourself are not an adept, it is a shame you can cloud your mind with these notions of imagined intellectual content that has nothing to do with seeing your nature, much less adapting to circumstances spontaneously based on the potential inherent in the situation itself.

 

You are simply mistaken, dear.

 

There is nothing to know. You are not missing out on any special knowledge that only adepts possess. Entry into the inconceivable is not a matter of knowledge. It is simply developing the virtue to see reality as is by a long process of self-refinement based primarily on forgetting self-reflective views of self and other.

 

Yours is the conceit of ignorance. Please don't grasp it so tightly. It doesn't become you at all, but after lifetimes of clinging to an ignorance such as yours, you may very well become it.

There is no thing dear ChiForce, but since you see so many things— may you possess all the gates, locks and keys you desire.

The title of this thread makes me think about how spiritual adepts know literally everything. Literally. Everything. Is. Known. By. Them. That's what an adept is.

 

Where are the spiritual adepts? Who knows?

 

...they do!

 

An adept in the tradition of the authentic teachings of the world is able to adapt impersonally in the context everyday ordinary situations in order to transcend the temporal realm of polluted karmic cycles of birth and death by absorbing its inherent potential thereby to remain outside the influence of creation, birth, death and change.

 

It has nothing to do with knowledge of everything. The knowledge of adepts is immediate, no different than your own mind.

The gateless gate has no gate, much less a key for a lock. It is your own mind.

 

It is obvious you have no idea what constitutes the gateless gate, practitioner.

It has no location.❤

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: add heavy heart!!

I believe it's called discretion… not that I'd know anything about that.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add "… not that I'd know anything about that"

Whatevers… I find that spiritual adepts make me weak in the knees… heeheehee!!

Regardless which schools, the end goal in meditation is to reach samadhi and to gain the transcendental wisdom. In fact, there are even levels of samadhi and dhyanas you must go through in order to reach closer to enlightenment. If you can't reach samadhi in your meditation, even the first level, you have a lot of work ahead of you in your meditation.

No way. The end goal of meditation is to forget meditation. It is a temporary expedient for those who are as yet unable to maintain equipoise in action, which, as I stated earlier, is the highest meditation— even by those who have entered the inconceivable and have seen their nature.

 

There are those who are born knowing. There is no reaching, much less reaching closer. There are no stages.

 

There is nothing gained by enlightenment. This is the first truth of certification in terms of sudden illumination. No one must go through anything to realize their essential nature. One must only forget the false self to realize nonorigination.

 

The tenor of the comments have shifted a bit towards grasping in terms of the formless realm …ok.

There is no thing.

 

Find that.

It is extremely difficult to penetrate the abstruse function brought to bear in the authentic teachings of Complete Reality praxis.

 

The teachings of Jesus are so fucked over by its own and subsequent political and cultural ramifications, why would anyone bother with it at all? (Not that I haven't).

 

The fact is, Jesus nailed it— he just had a heinous task that he fulfilled to perfection.

 

May I suggest that you just do the easy thing and wait until you actually penetrate the authentic transmission of taoism as taoism and only then use one's realization to match the talisman of all authentic teaching to aid in one's further refinement and the selfless emancipation of all sentient beings.

Yes, and there is actually a point in making use of this inconceivability that has never been beyond one's reach.

 

Since the OP is derivative of the fact that there is no creator (i.e., derivative of that thread), it follows that nothing is created.

 

We can use this to transcend the fallacy of creation and enter into the mystery of Complete Reality. But first it is necessary to see it.

 

There are two examples I can observe illustrating the mystery; seeing the mystery; and using the realization of the mystery.

 

One is the moon.

 

We can see it when it is illuminated. Who can see the new moon? Who has seen the new moon? That's nothing if you do, because there is the dark side of the moon too. What about that?

 

It's the same moon, yet you have never seen it. It is different, but it is the same~ every bit the same as the bright side of the moon.

 

Its surface can be explained and there are even maps of the dark side of the moon, but it is always dark and it always faces away from the earth. So what's the mystery? The mystery of the bright side of the moon is no different than the dark side. No one sees this (the mystery) and it is all there is to see. That's the mystery of just seeing reality— but it doesn't even approach the mystery of reality itself.

 

Now seeing reality as is, is as easy as turning over your hand (not to mention the front of your hand). So what? So is it any different? You know the back side of you hand. You also know the back side of your hand is you (as well as the front). Now can you say that you are your hand? Maybe not?

 

Two very imperfect analogies of the mystery of seeing reality as is, no different than seeing the side one is accustomed to; knowing it's you, yet also knowing you aren't it (forgetting the moon for now).

 

You do know you aren't your hand, right? Let's hope there aren't any arguments about that at this juncture.

 

If it is this easy to see reality and in seeing it we see that it looks the same as everyday ordinary illusions, what's the big deal?

 

First, reality IS a mystery, even if we are unable to use that. Why can't we? Because that takes power, personal power.

 

So seeing mystery as a mystery is very important to seeing reality as reality. The critical factor in using the mystery to see reality is that it is like your hand (and the moon) in that you are not it.

 

When you see essence for the first time and suddenly realize it's you, yet you are not it~ you realize the mystery is you. Yet it is also apparent that you are not the mystery. Reality is impersonal. One must realize the proper place for the temporal identity as not a personal thing. The identity of the personality is not personal. It works the same as experiencing the absolute in that it's you, but you are not it.

 

This is the perspective necessary to begin to use the mystery to enter the mystery. It requires selflessness in the practical sense. Selflessness requires seeing reality for what it is. When you see reality as is, one is naturally selfless. Selflessness is not a moral imperative that relates to the self. It is not the self. Selflessness is the functional imperative of enlightening being.

 

Selfishness is the inability to see reality as is simply because reality is impersonal. In this sense, one uses the mystery of having a self in the midst of impersonal reality to adapt to conditions, because reality is actually selfless. And this is a very practical and poignant example of what a sense of alchemical reversal is in actual situations and how turning the light around really looks like in action.

 

In turning the light around, everything is turned around. This is so because the light of reality, unattributable, is the means by which enlightening beings carry out tasks and undertakings. This is the reality of reversal in terms of alchemic function. The truth is, by turning everything around, everything becomes real. It is the nature of the false to be the way it is. One simply reverses it to deal with it impersonally as enlightening activity; this then turns karmic causality into the nonoriginated Causeless. This is the inconceivability of subtle operation within Suchness.

 

Just this is the Great Vehicle of buddhas, wizards, saints and adepts independent of tradition or epoch.

 

What's the point? It's the matter of birth and death. Act like you exist and you are born and die many times just in the course of a single day, not to mention a single lifetime.

 

Don't get me wrong— the karmic reality requires you to be born and die this much …endless cycles of birth and death.

 

Ever heard of something called buddhism? What's that? Buddhism is just awakened teachings of awakened mind. That's all it is. It doesn't even exist. The teachings are to be practiced until they can be forgotten as oneself in reality because that is all they are.

 

So the point of seeing reality for what it is is to somehow step outside the karmic influence of birth and death (because this is not real) while in the midst of birth and death; going along with the timing of the celestial in the context of the temporal as a partner of creation yet not subject to its illusory cycles. Somehow, even though it is impossible to not go along with karmic evolution, yet nevertheless we do in terms of enlightening activity, thereby to transcend its changes.

 

This is called the mystery of the subtle operation of reversal within the temporal. Enlightening being is simply not going along with creation while in the midst of creation. Buddhas and immortals don't say it any different than that.

 

This is no different than activating mind without dwelling on its contents; no different than seeing through phenomena without denying characteristics.

 

Even though karmic evolution requires one to enter into endless cycles of birth and death, since you can accurately and skillfully see this as illusion, you are then able to transcend endless cycles as endless transformations without going along with Changes of karmic, creative evolution.

 

This is the value of seeing reality as is. This is the value of seeing nothing exists, that there is no creator, that the mystery is you through and through, is the entire creative potential no different than your essential nature.

 

It behooves one to see one's nature.

 

And to do that, one must see that there is nothing outside of oneself. This is turning the selfish understanding of selflessness inside out and expanding it without limit. Only then can one begin to see that the mystery in everyday ordinary existence is no different than the mystery of the absolute.

 

When one can then begin to activate enlightening activity to free oneself from the cycles of birth and death while in the midst of birth and death, one has succeeded in using both absolute and temporal characteristics within the mystery with alacrity. This has never depended on sudden enlightenment, just the virtue enabling one to work with essence directly.

 

Is it not a mystery? So instead of seeking some sort of external gratification in even the spiritual realm as mr P says, just accept the mystery as yourself in the most powerful way you can …selflessly.❤

 

 

 

 

ed note: add "(the mystery)" in 8th paragraph; add ending to penultimate paragraph

It has no location. it is not the person nor is it relative to the person.

 

There is no one to intend anything. Since it has no location, it is not a place. Though this is the heart of heaven and earth and this aperture is not empty, yet it is immaterial. it is not a matter of meditation.

 

It is simply the Center which contains the impulse of living aware energy uncreated, unmanifest, void of self, presence without origination.

 

The mysterious pass, existing before all time, is the aperture of nonorigination— giving birth to ordinary people and immortals alike. In this regard it is not limited to the absolute, but is the perennial gateway of potential aware energy in the living minds and bodies of all beings individually. Using this mysterious pass unconsciously is the norm for ordinary people. Self-refinement is the task of seeing the Mysterious Pass for oneself.

For those who have refined the elixir of immortality by penetrating the mysterious pass, it is possible to actualize non-doing and develop the response-body. One learns to use this aperture of nonoriginated potential to match reality in everyday ordinary affairs. If one knows this aperture yet cannot use it— it is the same as not knowing. Wu wei is not a state— it is a function of crucial importance in the lives of ignoramuses and potential illuminates alike.

Non-doing is the Great Sameness, unborn and undying. Actualizing potential in response to situations is the work of immortals. If you have experienced the undifferentiated, nonoriginated selfless potential it is imperative that you work on this basis. Don't throw this away!

 

Witnessing the Mysterious Pass is only planting the seed of immortals and buddhas in the homeland of nothing-whatsoever.

 

This is merely entry into the inconceivable. It is not something to discuss with anybody until many years after the singular achievement, if ever.

Where thoughts originate and feelings secrete is close to this immaterial aperture. It is the critical juncture where all the elements combine to form complete real human being.

People mistakenly come to believe that human being is a title, whereas in reality, it is a capacity which is only rarely fulfilled.

The thread about there being no creator in buddhism is currently experiencing a Tibetan vocabulary overload and then s'body PM'd this…⬇⬇⬇ re: my last comment there~ heehee!!

 

NOTHING IS CREATED. NOTHING HAS EVER BEEN CREATED. THIS IS YOUR MIND RIGHT NOW: UNCREATED

 

We see. We feel. We smell. We hear.

It exists.

Why can it be said that 'nothing is created' but our senses see CREATION.

 

 

My response…

 

 

WE don't exist. I don't exist. I've proven that to myself. I simply know it as a fact, yet here we are.

 

It does not exist. Only the formless is real. The formless is the essence of the formed.

 

Those who see essence do not go along with the formed and therefore do not partake of creative evolution in the endless rounds of birth and death.

 

The only reason for the wisdom teachings is (their veracity) that birth and death are totally unnecessary and are such only through ignorance of the exigence of the killing mechanism of cyclical yin and yang. It is not that yin and yang exist either. They are just words expressing the process of created function.

 

The absolute is alive— it is simply awareness itself …no different therefore not separate from its manifestation.

 

Adepts cue into the unmanifest to transcend the manifest~ it's just how to do it. There is no reason. It's just the way it is and know one knows why. This is the wisdom teaching of the ages.

 

The wisdom teachings also express the inconceivability of the celestial mechanism which is the subtle take-over of creation by going along with polluted yang in the beginning of the cycle until potential is ripe, when it is withdrawn before the killing yin energy has just arisen. It is then stored away in the empty vessel void of intellectualism where it matures into the elixir of immortality.

 

Your own mind right now is not created, has never entered creation, has never moved.

 

Nothing is itself created. In other words, nothing is actually a thing. Yes!

 

Enlightened mind, your own mind, doesn't even contain nothing— it (even nothing) is an illusion.

 

So, since even nothing is created, it does not exist because only the real formlessness of true emtiness is not empty.

 

This is not a cutesy expression.

 

I don't say it coming from meaning.

 

I say it coming from inconceivability.

 

That is how close I can get to it with words …but it is true, none the less.

 

As for creation being sensed, why can the absolute be a complete mystery, yet creation is not?

 

This whole reality is an utter mystery!!!

 

How wonderful!!!!

 

 

 

 

ed note: (Forgot to) add PM'd comment

Open sincerity is purity of intent.

 

Intent is purified as soon as "your" is eliminated.

 

This is the meaning of openness.

Moved to another thread…❤

hahahhahahhahhahahhahaa!!

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: dangs! I see I edited my post~ and I invariably say why… oh, maybe I pretended to edit just to be sly!! haha!!

And Im like ok just another thing I have to keep to myself.

 

Don't stop there!

 

This is the best place to start. I didn't tell anybody anything for almost thirty years, grasshopper.