adam mizner

hi

there are many sleep practices, most not such a big deal, the thing is that lots of awake practice is the key...

metta

adam

Hi, considering that time for practice is limited and that we spent a lot of time sleeping, the silly question came to my mind whether it is possible to enhance sleep so that it becomes practice.

 

In one of Yogananda's lesson he says that sleep is the time when each of us unconsciously becomes a yogi. And he didn't rate it as particularly useful in spiritual practice because it's unconscious. But he didn't provide any method to enhance sleep to become practice. He only describes a method to induce dreams.

 

Anybody has ideas on how to use sleep as practice/meditation? Quiet practice/meditation of course, I wouldn't like to shake while sleeping...

 

Cheers

hi

yes i feel that the dantien method is a lower method. i also think that this view is shared by some in the daoist schools, lui ming for example. in practice energy will find ways to express itself, be used up or simply fade. in my view the work should be put into the mind rather than energy, that said i have done much energy work. as far as taiji goes i dont use the dantien, i try to make emptiness my centre. this makes it much harder to find and much harder to move. but i am not a traditionalist in taiji so sure i am wrong from many points of view. mind leads chi, chi leads body. cultivation of the causes gets the best results.

as for how i tap into these energies, well they are there at our desposal, just need the mind training to use them.

metta

adam

hey, thanks for your reply!

 

Interesting as you come from Taiji chuan background and not using Dan Tian method? Can you tell us more about your elements and how you tap into those energies?

 

There are so many Daoist textv regarding Dan Tian do you feel Dan Tian is a lower level to what you are doing these days?

 

I feel the Dan Tian has more usages then storing!

 

thanks in advance...

 

Ape

yes you can just sit there and say...... but i dont know much about philosophy.

metta

adam

The lower dantien is an energy warehouse. People use it many different ways but that doesnt mean you can fill it like a bowl. I think depending upon your wants and needs the dantien will be viewed differently. You can sit there and say the energy is just waiting to be tapped into which is fine and true but it's more than tapping the source, it's tapping and using.

it depends on what these terms mean in your model. i for one am all for sitting and forgetting.

metta

adam

good question spirit ape. Ah yes the elixir fields. What would Taoism be without its Dan Tiens. Surely not Taoism anymore. Furnace, cauldrons, meridians, spirit released from the matrix, I sit and forget.

hi, seeing as there are no answers i will give one

in my view it is completely unneeded to develop chi in the body. everything is energy and it can be tapped into at any time in an instant, so no need to develop or store chi. in my training we learn to tap into or manafest chi in the form of the 4 basic elements. these energies can be drawn on from the world around you or in you or at a higher level staight out of emptiness. i have also found that when storing energy it is best to avoid chakras or dan tiens as this creates an imbalance in the astral body, any form od storing is a bad idea if you have not mastered your defilements. but hey why store?? i am sure others will not agree, all good.

metta

adam

Ok, ive been reading alot of peoples post and different systems and was thinking some people use the same methods some different and some totally out there!

 

My question is: What do you feel is the most important methods of developing Qi in the body be it Dan Tians, chakras if you believe in that or something way out there?

 

Spirit Ape

haha, i thought you needed help with an entity. oops

metta

adam

I need some help.

 

You see, there's this demon that needs killin'. It is a wily, old devil. Very powerful. In fact I've fought with him for a long time,off and on, and I'm sure all of you have as well, or will at some point. My hope is, that in a place like this, some would emerge who have vanquished this old foe before, and who could help light the way for others.

 

The name of the demon is Doubt. Or more specifically Self-Doubt.

 

What is the best way to let go of Doubt?

Chris

well said, well said.

metta

adam

Also look what happened with Tibetan Buddhism. When Buddhism came to Tibet, ALL OF IT was translated into Tibetan. For example in Dzogchen, a lot of highly technical Tibetan vocabulary appeared for all the relevant phenomena of consciousness. Not a single Sanskrit word remained in wide use. But the Tibetans will not do the same for English. They come over here and you read their books and they are just peppered with Tibetan. Do you realize that Tibetans can't even pronounce the Sanskrit mantras correctly? "Peme" LOL!!! What PEME?? It's PADME. But none of this has impeded the spiritual development of Tibetans! They did just fine in their own language and with the incorrect pronunciation of the Sanskrit mantras, which surely should have destroyed the power of the mantra!

The same happens in many spiritual traditions. The West is being spiritually raped in this way.

It's one thing to bring wisdom and to enlighten our understanding of our own symbols. But it's an entirely another thing to come here and insinuate that our symbols have no power, and that the power comes from this tightly guarded secret source, from far away. One way to do this kind of power play is to denigrate the native language.

Let's put an end to this once and for all. Let everyone become awake to the full power of our internal meaning. The English language is not deficient in any way. It's exactly, precisely every bit as powerful and as magical as Chinese, Tibetan, Sanskrit, Hebrew, Egyptian, Greek, Latin (see how many times we have been raped in the past?). Restore the power back to your own mind. Restore the power back to your own symbols.

Look at me. I came from another country too. I learned English as a second language. I don't go around putting down English. When I talk to English people I explain to them that English has limitless power, magic and potential. I don't say, hey, your language is for n00bs, learn my language to be a master.

many paths there are, but they lead to many destinations. the destination of a cristian, a daoist and a buddhist are all different, even if they succeed to the hights of their path. that said truth is truth, relative and ultimate. some systems have more truth than others.

metta

adam

Interesting discussion. I have been pondering these things myself lately.

 

First, before getting lost in who is or isn't following the "Tao" correctly I think it would be interesting to see what our definition for Tao is.

 

For example, is Tao something different than the concept of God or Buddha? Is finding God or the Buddha different then finding Tao? Are there different versions of truth or only one?

 

It reminds me of a poem by a Zen Master,

 

Many paths lead from

The foot of the mountain

But at the peak

We all gaze at the

Single bright moon

 

I suppose the other view would be different paths don't lead to the same mountain peak. And maybe that is true. To me this is the main thing to clear up before discussing what is or isn't a true Taoist. What is true spirituality? Do different spiritual practices lead to the same destination like many rivers that return to the ocean or not?

 

And if we find Taoism is a distinct destination different from the destination of Buddhism,Christianity, Hinduism,Islam, Sufism,Advaita,Native Indian,Shinto,New Age etc what makes it different and special? And what makes the process of studying Taoism under an authentic Taoist Master different than studying Taoism from reading books and practicing without a teacher?

 

I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer. The person I have been studying with this last year claims to be adept at many different practices and lineages. Taoism, Tibetan Buddhism,Native American,Egyptian etc.

 

Obviously, there are different practices a Native American Shaman learns than a Tibetan Buddhist Master. But after all the forms and outer appearances are learned and forgotten is there a different truth informing the two?

not sure what this has to do with wuji?

metta

adam

sink or swim drop your center lift crown lengthen spine, squat should support structure hands reach out far enough the weight can sink thru heels. like wise the weight sinks thru the heels deep enough the arms can fully extend and be antennas to your suspension system.

 

find sung (song)

 

try moving your dantien thru a perfectly flat plane

 

the changes will happen

just found this, will give my view on those questions.

i try not to use terms like spontaneity as they are too general. wuji dimension is the plane of timeless and spaceless emptiness, this emptiness is not void as it holds for lack of a better word the potential for all to arise. it is because of this non existence that existence can come about. within the human there is the body, energy, mind and akshic body, all ground, wuji or whatever. so it is a vibrational scale from gross to subtle to non vibration (wuji). because this 'body' and plane are both spaceless they are not separate, this means that accessing this body or plane gives one access to any form of information. this is also the plane that kamma is stored in if you could say it is stored. hope this helps.

as for samadhi, your back cannot hurt in true samadhi. as in true samadhi (jhana) the 5 senses are transended and so is the will, this leaves only the knower. so to say it is concetration is a poor translation. absorbtion is better. that said this level of samadhi is not needed to access wuji. i think that a transmition from a good teacher is needed.

again hope this helps, i try to keep it very simple on forums.

metta

adam

I have the sensation that the only person that knows what is talking about here is Adam Mizner,

and everybody else should just shut ... ... up, and in case ask for clarifications.

 

And here are the clarifications I would like to ask.

 

Does accessing the wuji dimension, mean to access spontaneity?

If not, what does it mean? Can you pleas clarify?

 

When you speak about samadhi you speak about the ability to remain with the object of your concentration with no gaps of the mind? ( Thus a different, but more correct from the point of view of the tradition, usage from what has been recently done by a practitioner in another thread: my back is hurting but I sit in samadhi for 1 hour)

 

I have other questions, but those would suffice.

 

And please if you do not know, DO NOT GUESS.

Spiritual work is no guess work.

 

Thanks,

Pietro

ok, this is a topic of interest. what is internal power... firstly you cannot lever something with a soft object, so the bouncing is not leverage. taiji power comes from the use of the body in a hydrolic way, this jin can be directed through a very soft bridge which is very different to leverage. i am intersted in others ideas of what internal power is. also some vids of demonstrating it.

metta

adam

:)Well i dont share your views on combat sorry! Im out to destroy the enemy and conquor my own fears nothing more.

 

I didnt say his art sucked or he sucked im saying IN MY OPINION that i think bouncing people means jack sh!t and to me that is not internal power but good leverage!

 

By the way i teach internal kung fu as well Hakka so i also know internal when i see it!

 

Have a great day mate...

 

Ape

How would one access the wuji dimension? How does it relate (practically) to Taoist Practices.

 

Thanks,

hi

this is not so hard with correct training. the cause is equanimity and samadhi, it is a must for spiritual growth beyond a certain point. the wuji is not white or whiteness. it should be noted that accessing and equalizing with are very different.

metta

adam

2 vids,

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=iLqjnc23ph0

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=LNIeZgvMhmk&...feature=channel

metta

adam

hi

in my view

forget about lotus posture.

sit comfortable, loose and straight.

do not move or adjust the body at all.

sit as long as you can sometimes.

other times just enjoy.

all of my serious students are trained to sit dead still till they pass out or vomit. it all depends on your goals. i suggest you stick with anapanasati, it can take you far.

metta

adam

The thing I loved most about kunlun (K1)is it allowed me to sit for 1 hour and not get uncomfortable, then gave me a really nice stillness meditation for 20 min.

 

I'm now trying anapana meditation and I like it. But after ~ 40 min I'm noticing my mind is pretty much "my back hurts, my back hurts, my back hurts." I wiggle occasionally to get a few minutes of relief but I'd like to continue this meditation for longer.

 

So how "still" do people sit when siting? The times I was taught meditation we were told to sit still, but we did not sit for that long.

 

Is this a "full lotus sit through the pain" vs "Just feel comfortable" dicotomy?

 

I'm leaning towards more enjoyable practice sessions so I've even moved away from crossed legs to just sitting on a chair (I'm a LONG way from full lotus but I'm practicing stretches everyday, slow progress)

I've tried corps pose too (Reduces my minds "complaints" about my back and shoulder pain)

 

and I've been noticing that there are a few really relaxed meditation postures out there

 

eg.

 

Thanks in advance for any tips

 

p.s. Haha was looking for something a bit more "relaxed" but this is attachment # 420

so PM me if that "means" anything to you

i like your posts

i dont deal with centres like the 3rd eye so much, i dont use the word chi so much either, or yin and yang for that matter. but to know something it must be registered through the senses. so to know something such as 'chi' visually you must cultivate clairvoyance, a very practicle tool for doing this is visualization. if your eyes open visualation skill is poor then your eyes open clairvoyance is usualy poor as well. so although visualization will not lead one to liberation it is far from useless.

metta

adam

it is very USEFUL and needed. If you don't "See" either by self actualizing the visualization (Yang) or by self surrendering to receptivity (Yin). You do not in any way have a 3rd eye open and you are not developed yet in your cultivation.....

Visualization is a major stepping stone to activating and using the higher centers in the brain/energy body.

 

So yeslearn to feel (Swadisthana & Anahata Siddhi) & Learn to See (Manipura & Ajna Siddhi).

 

They are both needed in the "Path".

 

And they both have a Yin and Yang aspect. So to say one is worthless is to say " I am not educated or experienced enough and I am still wearing energetic diapers". No offense to the one who said "visualization" is worthless but you are unfortunately wrong.

 

Peace

 

Santiago

montague.. i thought we were talking about taiji not comedy

metta

adam

Anyway its fine mate, its good that people are out there showing Taiji again from Oz, following Erle Montague another ozzy!

Peace

Ape

montague.. i thought we were talking about taiji not comedy

metta

adam

Anyway its fine mate, its good that people are out there showing Taiji again from Oz, following Erle Montague another ozzy!

Peace

Ape

hi

as a teacher i can say that most students never put the work in to warrant much more teaching beyond the first few years. they really just need to spend some years getting good at the basics. my most senoir student is quite good now, but i dont feel the need to teach him new skills at present. he is working on the basics as am i. as for making the art your own, that depends on the meaning. the skills must become part of you. i like to say you dont do taiji , you become taiji. it is a mental and physical change that has to happen. after that change then higher skills can be played with. that said i really just work on my stance and my meditation, just beginers stuff.

metta

adam

ok so after 4 years with my bagua teacher i have the feeling that i am grinding to a halt in my progress, this is partly to do with the time i have to trainin has been cut down a lot (i am currently working two jobs that cover my morning and evening but i try to get stuff done any chance i get)

 

also it seems that my teacher has stopped teaching me things, i work hard on the techniquies i have and when i asked him about it he replied that it was time to work on my 'zi gong' or personal skill. i.e. i have to make bagua my own. just i don't feel like i have enough

 

has anyone else had this same sort of experience, what did you do about it?

karma is non linear. good post, the reality of samsara

metta

adam

Unfortunately for those who think that karma isn't real, that it also operates in a non-linear way, which IMO is the worst karma. It means the one that takes you to a non-favourable rebirth. Immense suffering. Like these:

 

And I haven't mentioned hell, preta and hungry ghost realms.

bjj is a great art, no doubt about it. it is very technical and i respect it allot, just not my taste to roll around on the ground with sweaty men. each to their own. i would also say that i find graplers the hardest to deal with.

metta

adam

Well mouse if he has been cross training with BJJ people i like to see these clips and what teachers he has been beating using push hands? I know some very good BJJ people and im not saying push hands is crap just that if you can bridge you can be hit and if you can bridge you can be taken down and submitted.

 

Yes, i teach Hakka arts!

 

Ape

please come my friend, next seminars in april.

metta

adam

haha yes I understand

 

BUT, although I have not personally met Sifu Adam Mizner, some people in my lineage have. So I have great respect for his Tai Chi and I want to attend one (or several) of his seminars.

 

I really enjoyed this article "to live as a martial meditator through example and teachings" a great goal IMHO.

gow choi, yes a good strike that i am more than familiar with, the thing is that if the body moves its centre can be controlled, no centre=no power. but hey thats just a push hands skill. in short the article is about training the mind, not fighting, and certainly not ring fighting which is a game much as push hands is.

metta

adam

Untill he can use his taiji fajing in MMA i would give him credibilty or in BJJ/JUDO competitions!

 

Easy to do what he does against a student pushing or being used as a dummy, that isnt sparring or even close to fighting.

 

Just my ranting sorry Mal to spoil the thread but its like saying do push hands against hakka mantis and you will get creamed with Gau Choi's hahahah! You Feel me??

 

Ape

friend

fa jin is only one way to express energy, we also strike. but fighting bores me.

metta

adam

I agree that sensitivity helps yeilding but in Hakka Kung Fu we dont use it to bounce people away like what you see with this guy in his Taiji clips. Im sure he can do them to standing people not against people he doesnt know that really would want to knock him out or take him down. Im sure his Fajing will get you only so far maybe pushing the person onto a on coming truck or train track but not in the ring, IMHO.

 

I also compete in Judo and BJJ and I feel my sensitivity is pretty good and Yes it does help with Gi control but if you understand grappling if they try and bounce or push, you get armbarred , thrown, swept etc cause Grappling also uses soft and hard circles.

 

thanks

Ape

hi

alignment must be taught in detail from a good teacher who know about it, it is trained mainly if form practice. posture testing is not a reliable way to test it as one person pushing on another both with poor alignment will not show much at all, the result will be relative to the pushers alignment and root. taiji must be practiced in accordance with the taiji theory. if they principles are correct then the taiji will be as well.

metta

adam

Had posted a question in the personal practice section on tai ji

but it was suggested to throw it into the general discussion area ?

 

My questions are about alignments and how do you learn them?

Or improve them!

 

How do you test them on your own?

 

Have worked with others holding a "pose"

then having someone push from different angles,

different places, I like that.

Like push hands too.

Feel and see a lot with both of those

but am practicing mostly on my own these days

and not in any classes with other students.

 

So How can it be done? Self testing alignments?

 

Any experiences or stories of how you learned or are learning would be great!

Connections you feel as things "link"up,

what tricks did you find to help you feel them clearer?

(like tucking the tail or some such?)

 

Or just anything you'd like to share about taiji, Love to hear it!

 

Stay well,

Shon

 

Hey?

Thanks to you guys who replied to the other questions too!

I do appreciate it!

hi wolf

long time no see.

heard you were up the north end of the coast these days.

then spot you on here. i am also new to lists...

adam

Hello to the rest of the tao. This bit has been an ordained taoist monk (mystic) living in monasteries deep in the mountains of Tibet, northern China and northern Thailand for over 35 years. This skinbag is now head trainer at Tao Wu Shin Temple in Australia. Unfortunatly this is the first computer these fingers have touched, so its all one finger typing for now and bad spelling. Please bear with. My students call me wolf. As my computer skills improve i hope to be able to chat with other liberated minds. Till then. Regards Wolf, abbott Tao Wu Shin temple

How did the melbourne seminar go?

hi seminar in melbourne went well, always fun to touch a bunch of strangers. elbow injury a bit of a problem but just have to keep the jin gentle. i cancelled the sydney seminar because not enough bookings then in the last week many people called to book in, too late. fly up to the coast soon for a seminar there which will be fun.

metta

adam